The 1,2,3 Monster

I was reading some of the other responses and saw some good ones. I like the one that stated that you count to one only. Which is to say that I am on the more firm side when it comes to discipline. But I do want to say to keep in mind the positive responses too. I don't mean to say something positive when they are misbehaving, just to remember to say positive things when he does something right. This will motivate him to do the right thing more often. It doesn't have to be anything major just a positive saying when they do something right. It just changes things up a little for you too. Good Luck.

One night, I had a sore throat. Why? Because I kept telling my two sons, "One more time, and you are in trouble!" I had yelled enough and with no results. I told my mother and she reminded me that my children were testing their limits, not believing the one more time would ever come, and it didn't because I now had a sore throat.

Child are more secure when they know their boundaries and the boundaries are enforced. A swat on the bottom didn't work for my youngest son but time out was torture. A swat on my oldest sons butt worked, he yelled like I had really beat him. I guess he was insulted. It is humorous now that I look back on the whole thing.

Children really should know when you tell them something once, that they should know that that is the end of the behavior. No threatening, no repeating, no yelling is really necessary either.

A swat on the butt can be a real attention getter. It has a way of unclogging the ears. It shows that you mean business.
Try it, but you need to find the effective way of training your children and letting them know you mean business, you and your husband are in control.

If you don't establish this before they are too big to get a swat and become teenagers, you will have the battle of your life on your hands. You must never lose the battles ever!!!!!

D.
I'm 60 years old, been married to the same man for over 38 years, have two grown sons who never quit school, were ever on drugs, turned out well. I also have one daughter-in-law.

HI S.. I've found some effective ways for the most part but will also admit that my 4 year old is like the rest of them who have their own plans instead of ours- so not 100% of the time will it work.
First one: remind your child of the expected behaviour before they get to the point of telling them the rule (example: when you know he's going to the bathroom, on his way, you can give the hygiene reminder), this gives them more control and active decision-making. Secondly, if the first one didn't work, the ultimatum: 'you do it now or I'll do it my way'. Only when that second one is a rule you refuse to do altogether does the counting technique work in the long term and in place of the 2nd approach.
One technique for yourself as a mom is to remind yourself that the child's intention is only to live the fullest in the moment and try to gain control in their independence. It's very hard to remember that it's not their intention to undermine us. I haven't perfected this myself and think the developing Mom is a work in progress. Good luck and enjoy your son.

The good news is that as with any behavior pattern this can be undone! In addition to being a mom I am also a clinical child psychologist and have worked with many parents regarding this situation.Ofcourse each child is an individual so take this with a grain of salt-as you know your own child best but-
Here are a few guidelines and suggestions:
First-if you are going to change the system it is important to sit down with your son (when you are both relaxed and calm-as if a 4yr old boy is ever relaxed???!!!!) and explain to him there is going to be a new system. If the star chart has been working I would link it to the chart. Set up a new category for responding immediately. In addition make clear what the consequence will be if he can not follow through (such as a time out etc.) you must follow through consistently with the consequence.
Human behavior is quite amazing and predictable. In the beginning he will probably not respond in fact he may step up negative behaviors. Your job is to follow through consistently and calmly with the consequence.
In addition, make a big deal when he does what he is supposed to do. Positive reinforcent really works. When he engages in negative behavior follow through with the consequence try to display as little emotion as possibe and above all remain calm. Kids like any attention even if it is negative so you do not want him to be reinforced by your own negative reaction( eg frustation etc.). This may take some time but if you can stick to it his behavior should change.
Of course this is just general advice that I have seen work successfully with other children. If the behaviors continue you may want to talk directly to a professional (like the pediatrician, teacher etc.) who knows your child.
-Let me know how it goes!

Dear S.,
I made that mistake with my first son too! I feel we taught him not to listen to us until we are angry(the third time...or 4th as the case may be)...I feel your pain! The main thing I do now is get eye contact when I am trying to express myself...."let me see your eyes" must come out of my mouth 50 times a day...course we have 5 running around now, and the only counting I do is under my breath (or one, two, three...blast off!)...if you find a miracle cure I'd love to hear about it and I will be watching your responses...I'm sorry if I'm no help but I'm trying to undo the monster as well! You're not alone! Good luck!
C.

You have a lot going on so he is taking advantage of the situation. Have you tried trlling him"WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING!!!?" GET BaCK HERE NOW!!!!!!!!! You are just going to have to spend the time in the situation to correct, He is only 4 and needs the input and direction. He is old enough and heyond a 2 year olds perspective

mom at 4 ZERO tolerance and NO stickers.

I have 3 boys, they don't always listen but they know when i mean business,

I say STOP and USE the word NO,

If i say NO or stop and they don't listen-- BED

no second chances. cause lets face it school doesn't offer the 123, nor are there second chances.

when you say NO mean it and then enforce it, pick him up and put him to bed, this way if he kicks hits yells screams, bangs his head or whatever , he is safe and away from you.

I use an egg timer, 4 years old get 4 minutes, which starts AFTER he stops the temper tantrum

I feel that rewarding your kid, should be reserved for things that are NOT a GIMME, like listening, thats a gimme, but cleaning up your toys with out me saying so, thats a sticker ( at 4 years old anyways)

M

PS I have 3 boys oldest is 12

Hi S.,
I use 1,2,3 with my 9 year old and 2 year old. But I modified it a few years ago.

I just say 1. I'm kinda being funny, but this is actually what I do.
Why can't we simply expect our kids to listen the first time?
Just say, 1. Then use the consequence. He'll adjust and he'll respect you more!
You go mom!!
:o)
H.

S.,
Not an expert here, but you can start over any time you like.

Simply sit your son down at the table, and explain the 'facts' to him.

"I would much rather you spend time playing with your toys or your friend, or spend time with you playing a game of Candyland or going to the park, than having to put you in time out all the time.

This is the way things are. This is the way things will be.

There are times when I need to know you will do what I ask, because your SAFETY is important. You are __ years old, you are responsible for x, y, z (putting your toys away, washing your hands, helping with ___, being presentable at friend's houses, etc). This is how it is, there is no negotiation here."

Very similar to a talk I had with a friend's son when I was babysitting. It took a little bit for the information to sink in, but once it did, he was very happy to start working responsibly toward bedtime, helping with dinner, keeping his toys from killing me, etc. The safety issue really hit home with him, too.

Good Luck!
M.

I do the 123 Magic with my daughter too, she'd 3 1/2. But I told her there are some things that are not negotiable, either because of safety reasons, or because after the 2nd,3rd,4th time of something, you know the rule by then. So she doesn't get 123 for everything. FOr example, if it's throwing something, it's a time out right away. No counting for that. Jumping on the bed, safety issue, time out right away, no ounting. Now if she's at the table for a meal and she starts playing with the food, I'll count for that or other things that I I am trying to keep her on task. I would suggest like a previous mom said, look them in the eye ans d explain to them, By now you are old enough to know the rules and when I need to I will give you the consequence right away without coiunting. Do you undersdtand? ( I always ask my daughter this after explaining something, and make her say it back to me, Yes mommy, if I break the rules I will get a time out right away with no counting.

Hello S.. I agree with much of the advice you've gotten already. Your son has been hearing the count for 2 years. Discipline must grow as a child grows and matures. The disclipline you used with him as a 2 year old is just not appropriate for a 4 year old. A four year old who KNOWS that his behavior is wrong does not need to be counted. He needs to be punished, to experience consequences for his actions because he knows that he is not doing the right thing. He is old enough, as the other members have pointed out, to be sat down and told that he's a big boy now and these are the big boys rules. He is mature enough to be capable of following them, and if he chooses not to, it's simply defiance.
Good luck!

hi S.;

the thing about 1,2,3 is that you're either using the proper "1-2-3 Magic" program the exact right way 100% of the time, or you're not. if you are just randomly giving your son 3 chances to cooperate and tehn a time out, and not all the time, and the things that aren't "counted" that you want immediately are not consistent, this is not going to work.

we have gone to a pediatric psychologist to learn to use the 1-2-3 Magic system, by reading the book, making notes, discussing it with the professional and at home, making lists of no-tolerance behaviors, all with great success. but the trick is that we are sticking to it.

also you need to read the book because some of the things you posted about are what the book calls "Stop behaviors" and some are "Start behaviors" and with a child 3.5 yrs old, as my son is also, you can not use counting to for Start behaviors, things that you want your son to do right now. you have to learn the difference between things that can be counted and things that can't and what to do about it.

it really is a great system and i highly reccommend it. try buying the book and video on Amazon and take a week with your husband to read and watch it, then sit down, prepare to put the program into practice, according to the directions, and you will have great success.

good luck
J.

I totally agree with Christina R. Eye contact is a must and I require it. Basically, you either do this.. or send him to live with my father for a few weeks (that threat has always straightened my kids out! LOL!)

Seriously... years ago, another Mom told me something that worked like a charm. This method is amazing and I didn't believe it until I started using it and saw that it worked. Kids only remember the last few words spoken to them especially in an explosive situation. So, for example... Junior is bouncing on the couch and you want him to stop. You would normally say... "Hey Junior, were you born in a barn? Stop jumping on the couch!" That is the incorrect statement. The correct statement is: "Hey Junior. You're jumping and Mommy doesn't like that. Get down, couches are for sitting on" So rather than remembering "jumping on the couch" he will remember "couches are for sitting on"

When he gets down, you'll repeat it again with eye contact.

I've also noticed (my sister does this) that some Moms will ask their kids to do things. You are the boss, not him. So, when it's time to leave the store... it's not "Come on Junior can we leave now?" You need to say: "Come on Junior, we are leaving."

Another ... yes, yet another that always works (with eye contact as well)... is making them think they are making a choice. So, if he won't eat vegetables... normally you would say: "Yes Junior, Mommy is making peas with dinner"
Try instead "Hey, Junior... Mommy is going to make dinner tonight. Do you want peas or broccoli with your chicken?" My kids have always answered one or the other. Giving them these little choices makes them feel like they're a little in control of something without you losing the battle of them doing what you ask ... (and with the veggies thing especially, it helps them stay healthy)

Once you get this language down pat, you won't have to count anymore. That, or he can go stay at "Papa's Boot Camp" for a few weeks. LOL! (sorry, that's a running joke in our neighborhood. When kids act up, we threaten them with my Dad. They respect him and like him but they know he is... hmmm... kind of Military-like and really doesn't put up with whining!

Good luck! Sorry for all of the "Junior" references. It looks annoying but I wanted to stay as general as I could.
Keep us posted and keep eye contact with him.. it really does work!
Love, O.

Stop counting. Tell him to stop and give the consequences at the same time. ie If you don't come back here and get your butt wiped your going to your room. If he doesn't listen, go get him, wipe his butt, then put him in his room. No more 1, 2, 3. Just do as I say or your punished. He's old enough to know that his actions have consequences now. The problem is you have to follow through. Mean what you say, or it's as bad as counting.