What Requirements Does Your Church Have?

Time for a new church.

Longtime and active churchgoer responding here. The specifics you give -- "being required to spend hours upon hours I sitting in meetings and retreats, or driving 50 minutes out of my way for 30 minutes of group prayer" -- are not about building you spiritually or building the church as place of mission. They are about someone else needing to prove that (a) she can get backsides into seats, wherever those seats may be, and (b) she can weed out "weak" members with arbitrary dictates. Go ahead; be weeded out! Find a place where you can worship, become part of prayer and service groups, etc.

I would almost wager that she is soon going to start saying loudly and clearly that "anyone who does not get to this retreat is risking consequences"....or "Why weren't you at the prayer group this week? Why isn't it important enough to you to be there? What do you mean, traffic got in the way? Why didn't you leave work early?" .....or "Those who don't get to this event cannot participate in this other event/celebration/mission" and so forth. if you are "required" to do these things she is planning to use them as yardsticks to measure first your faith and second your being allowed to do other things.

This is....unchristian, frankly.

I worry for you that because you have never been to any other church you will hesitate to leave. Please don't. God may be telling you it's time to grow and you can't grow without leaving. I know it's VERY hard to leave behind people we have known and loved forever at our churches! But this pastor's need for control is a huge red flag.

How do those with children commit to all these events? Has anyone asked the pastor: "What happens when my child's school event conflicts with one of these mandatory church events? What happens if there is a family event, or a family illness or emergency or trip, and it conflicts with one of these church events? Is there a number in your mind for how many times we are 'allowed' to miss events before....something happens? What DOES happen?" Does she plan to eject people from the church if they don't make X numbers of events? Does she say that retreats or weeknight groups must get priority over a child's events or a grandparent needing help or...

Where does it end? With you and surely others leaving. Focus on God and service to others, not on checking off how many events you attended.

That sounds like a very negative trend.
I'd be gone.

it can be a tough call, because certain types of volunteer organizations really do need members to participate beyond what many of us consider ideal. it's the reason i haven't joined a food co-op i love. i totally understand their required volunteer hours- it's just more than i can commit to.
churches aren't quite the same, but similar enough in some cases. i belong to a tiny 'demos', with a few members in the area who CAN get together but because of proximity and schedules, it's very difficult. we are supposed to hold 4 rituals per year that are open to the public in order to keep our charter, but even that doesn't often happen simply because the logistics don't pan out.
there's a fairly bright line between being expected to participate and being imposed upon. i understand participation and resent imposition.
it sounds as if you're feeling imposed upon. i do hope a change is made so you don't feel squeezed out of your lifelong spiritual home. but sometimes that uncomfortable change is for the better!
good luck.
khairete
S.

Time to start church shopping. No need to tell the church you are doing it til you have found a new one. My husband and I had to church shop as I was raised southern baptist and he was raised Lutheran. Neither one fit both of us. we ended up at a Methodist church for a short time and then just a first christian church for a number of years. We eventually settled in a catholic church which had a pastor who could have easily been a fire and brimstone baptist minister which worked for me and had all the symbolism my husband needed having been raised Lutheran. We both converted. its been close to 20 years now and I still love my church.

I have attended church all my 53 years. About 20 of the last years in the same church with the same pastor. I don't change easily.

I've seen lots of personalities in the pulpit. I believe you have your pastor pegged. NPD is not going to cure itself. If your membership doesn't stand up for itself, it's going to be lost to ravening wolf in sheep's clothing. I have seen a bit of this and it was enough for us to leave after a year.

Too many requirements strangle a church and leaves it without the leadership of the Holy Spirit. If you walk in and feel something's missing, that's it. It's time to leave.

Maybe it's because I'm not religious but I don't understand. How can a church make anything mandatory? It seems to me that if you don't want to do something , you just don't do it. I mean, what are they going to do to you if you refuse ??

This sounds like an unhealthy pastor/church relationship. When I was in my twenties and attending a variety of churches to find a 'home', I encountered some really healthy churches and some which were cultish (required to meet for prayer meetings, required to bring more people into the church, required to raise your children the 'church's way', etc.) or overly strict and some which were just dysfunctional. To me, what you are describing does sound not cultish but certainly erring on dysfunctional. That, to me, signals that maybe it's time to start looking around at other churches which allow people more freedom in what they attend and how they want to serve.

I left a church after attending for a over a year because they kept pressuring me to go into leadership in some way. (I was volunteering for more 'grunt work' jobs like setting up chairs, helping organize some kids' activities, making sure to bring potluck offerings and other service work). Leadership is not a good fit for my personality and I was suffering severe depression at the time; I was needing help and not in a position to give it. There was a lot of discussion about my 'lack of participation' and I was pushed into working in the daycare because I worked at a daycare during the week. :(This only made my depression worse and I quit the church entirely. I won't got into some of the other problems, but pressure to tithe was one. (interestingly, when I thought I was following biblical rule by tithing in cash only and not writing off my tithing, I got a form in the mail saying that I had paid "zero" to the church for the year from the church secretary, that was sort of the icing on that cake).

People are human, God is divine. I know it's easy to say "find another church community", but much harder to go it. Do your other congregants feel this way? Is there a way to discuss this with someone to whom your pastor is accountable? It may be that you might want to find a church which jibes with your current level/interest of participation or it may be that you just have a really lousy pastor. Good luck!

I am not religious, but have been to enough churches in my lifetime to know that what you describe sets off some warning bells. In any situation in life, when you start to get a bad feeling about something (and I know from your past posts that this has been a long time coming), you need to heed your inner voice. Do you feel like God is trying to tell you something about the church you're attending? It seems like you are being called elsewhere. Why not visit some other churches and see how you feel about them? The only times in life I have had regrets are when I felt strongly about something, but then second-guessed myself. I suspect you are in such a situation right now. Good luck.

There are volunteer organizations who have people in them who push the limit with others. I've been in some that disbanded because of it. When person after person quits, FINALLY the problem is dealt with.

The difference in a church and another volunteer organization is that the ones doing the pushing try to use religion to keep people docile and in line.

At least there are other churches you can go to. God will not punish you for leaving a congregation, no matter how much a representative of the church might what you to believe.

Go find somewhere else. Leave this congregation behind.

When I was a member of a UU church, there were no requirements. Members were encouraged to give at least 10% of their income but not if doing so would mean they couldn't pay their light bill or buy enough groceries to keep their family fed. All classes, committee service, small group ministries, and other service activities were strictly voluntary.

Your post is very vague, so it's hard to answer.

It's not at all questionable, in itself, for a church to require things of its members - even though it's rather culturally incorrect these days.

But you're not only questioning the events; you're also questioning the leadership.

Your only recourse, really, is to go to the leaders. Ask questions; don't attack. You want light, not heat. Plan first. Think your questions out, write them down, think them out again. Make sure that you will ask what you WANT to ask, and that you won't say what you DON'T want to say.

What your leaders answer, and how they respond even to your questioning, may tell you what you need to know.

It may be necessary for you to think through your beliefs. Loyalty to a particular church may be fine, but it is not necessarily the same thing as truly understanding and being loyal to your religion.

The only requirement of our church is to live in the parish and attend as much as you can/give as much as you can of your time/talent/money. If they started requiring us to do more, especially if it was very inconvenient, we'd be on the search for a new one.

Currently we're members of the LDS church. To have a temple recommend they ask you questions in an interview with your bishop, the pastor type person.

He asks if you're a full tithe payer

He asks if you have an affiliations with any organizations that are against God or stuff like that

He asks you if you treat everyone with respect, basically are you treating other people right.

and other questions that are similar. You can lie or you an answer honestly. If you say the right answers you get a temple recommend and can go to the temple as you wish. Google it if you want to know more about the temple.

I have gone there for many years, not totally convinced it's the right church. But they do teach a LOT about giving to others, doing service for others, and being the best possible person you can be so I do like some of the teachings.

Being a full tithe payer is hard for us. We're on SSDI and with that low income we often can't even pay our own bills. So we don't pay tithes. I think God understands.

My sister is a Jehovah's Witness. They require them to go out and go door to door. They go into homes of those who invite them and they have bible study time with them.

When I went to Assembly of God churches we had a lot of rules but no one I knew really bothered to go by them. I didn't even know about most of them until I found a booklet in a shelf by the pastors office. It had "what the church believes" listed in it.

I think many churches have requests they want their members to do so they'll have spiritual experiences and grow closer to God. TO have a stronger testimony.

But there is a limit as to what I'd do. I'm not a blind sheep being led by anyone.

Yours isn't the only church. The problem is they used to have more than enough involvement in activities before. No need to say you must do four, usually people did ten. Now we are all self centered and just want to go to church, not give, not participate and it is getting to the point where funds are too tight.

I don't know what it will look like in ten years. Either churches will start folding and only the business type churches will survive. Ya know the ones that broadcast to millions and take your money via every major credit card. Or they will drag people back kicking and screaming hoping they see the value in slowing down every now and then.

Purely observations, my life has been so crazy since my divorce I don't have time to go to mass but then I don't ask anything of the church.

I just want to point out that perhaps mine is a view of someone who was very active in our church. I would go to school with my kids, work up there all day, take them home, usually have someone else four nights a week. Then there was paperwork I did from home. Not once did anyone say, hey, go home! we have too many people here. Anyone that was willing to give they took all they could. Not because they were bad people but because there were so few that would do anything. You had the group that didn't give a penny because they did one thing a year. They had the group that wouldn't do a thing because they gave one dollar a year.....

That sounds crazy! I "belong" to a church but I won't let anyone tell me I have to do anything! If I attend services, then that's my choice; not theirs! If I donate money or my time, that's my choice; not theirs! If I want to honor God, it's going to be in my own way - I don't feel I have to go to a building to do that. I don't let anyone put any guilt trips on me because I choose to be religious in my own way!

If I were you, I'd explore other options. There are plenty of them out there!!

Good luck!!

Sounds excessive to me. I could see if the "events" were opportunities to serve but if you can't you can't. Is this a new leader within the church? If you don't want to don't. What are they going to do??

Cult like feelings...time to run.

As soon as you mentioned narcissist, I started thinking David Koresh, which I just explained to my daughter.

I am glad you sensed this and are reacting to it.

To answer your question, our church doesn't even require that you drop money in the basket. They will track it and send you a report at the end of the year, which can be used as a write off, along with a thank you letter, but no requirement. They also let us know when they need extra help, "stewards", which is volunteer.

We left a church because they spent an entire 6 week session (6 weeks!), doing what I called praying on us to help build a church out of the country. Even the guest speaker, who was there to cover the minister, spoke of this church in the making and the needs of that country. The 6 weeks was planned because before we left, they announced they were almost done with "our" 6 week session and we can still pledge a donation if we can't afford to do so right now. NO THANKS!

We are two hard working individuals. I don't have extra time & cash to participate in everything either. We do help where we can and rearrange schedules in order to do so.

The minute someone was to look down on us for not being able to do something is the minute I will pick up and leave. By the way, the church we left was so big, NO ONE noticed we left. There are pro's and con's to big churches where no one knows who you are and small congregations where every one knows what you have and haven't done.

Best wishes.

It is time to join your husband and son at the other church. No need to explain to the current pastor why. Just let them know that they will need to fill your position within the next x amount of time and leave.

No one should be told how to worship or serve. I have been to many different churches and none has "ordered" anyone to do things.

I will get off my soapbox now. Have a happy and blessed day and enjoy your life your way.

the other S.

PS There are many churches in your area so find a new one and be peaceful and happy.