What Is Normal:revised

This post is a lot easier to understand.

Any two year old is too young to put on ADHD meds. Your husband needs only to ask the pediatrician this, and he will get that answer.

Your child's crying and screaming all day is not normal. Not sharing IS normal. Trying to get her way is normal. You haven't figured out yet what normal in a two year old is, and neither has your husband. You two need help.

I know 2 year olds who are quiet and gentle. (Not my kids.) I know 2 year olds who wear you out with all their boundless energy. (My kids included.) And there's everything in between. That's a scale of normalcy.

Does your 2 year old talk? How does she get what she wants? Does she try to ask? Do you understand what she says? Or does she grunt and cry for what she wants?

You should ask the ped for a speech/language assessment. Once she is 24 months old, the benchmark of what is expected is a higher level. You need to know where she stands with this benchmark. You can also get some help figuring out her behavior.

Peds are NOT just for sick visits. They are for helping you navigate her developmental stages. You desperately need help with this and your husband needs to go to the doctor with you and hear what the doctor advises.

i'm so sad that everyone leaps to ADHD and medication whenever a toddler is high energy and high spirited. of course she might be, but that shouldn't be the default.
no one here can tell by your post whether she is or not. obviously if her father is so crumbled by having a busy 2 year old who doesn't share (2 year olds don't, he needs to read a freakin' parenting book) then you need to have her evaluated and you need some parenting classes. not because you don't know how to parent but because this poor little girl, barely verbal and not in control of her emotions, has been put in the uncomfortable position of ruling the household's emotional temperature and needs to be relieved of the burden.
you don't have the tools to cope with her. that's not a terrible thing or an embarrassment. she's your daughter, and you both need to put her first and get over any feelings of shame and go to a professional and get the necessary tools and skills to parent her appropriately.
khairete
S.

Have you talked to her doctor?

GhCrying and screaming all day does not sound normal. I suggest a book about child development and also one that will give you parenting tips.

Based only on your description, I suggest you are expecting more from her than she's able to do. Two is too young to get the connection between time outs and the behaviour you want to correct.

Two year Olds need to be taught. There are several skills for teaching. Redirecting is one.I use a lot. Before she turns wild, give her some quiet time. Wild frequently means the baby is hungry, tired, and/or over stimulated.

I urge you to learn what will help her calm down. Be consistent, loving and kind with her and other family members.

I would get a doctor's input. Her behaviour is unlikely ADHD. Two year Olds are typically not diagnosed at two because wild is more likely to be about frustration, mom's and toddler's. Perhaps caused by lack of consistency in the way they're managed. I suggest giving time outs will likely increase her yelling and screaming. She needs kind and soothing words. At two she doesn't know how to tell you what she needs. Please read about child development and how to parent a high needs toddler. I found books by Jane Nelson helpful.

What do you do when she cries? It's possible that she screams to get your attention. Try stopping what you're doing and sit down with her. When my granddaughter was having temper tantrums at that age, I sat down on the floor near her and waited. She would calm down and crawled to me for a hug. I didn't talk about why this happened. I knew that her brain is not developed enough to understand what I said, anyway. We'd get up and I tool my cue from her.sometimes she wanted to be held, sometimes I helped her transition to an activity.

Your husband may be reassured by her pediatrician. He also needs to learn about child development. Kids aren't able to share until they're older. So don't expect them to share. Distract them by giving each one something else to do. Separate them. Focusing on teaching her to share also contributes to her unhappiness. Neither of them have the ability to understand the concept of sharing.

Our brains are not fully developed until we're in the twenties. Toddlers are not little adults.

Thanks for re-writing, this makes much more sense.

First, no one in their right mind will medicate a two-year-old, so that discussion needs to end right now. If your husband doesn't understand that, have him come to the pediatrician with you so that he can hear straight from the doctor's mouth. Any diagnosis of ADHD or other issues shouldn't really come until a child is in elementary school and can demonstrate certain behaviors in multiple environments. So he needs to stop looking at your two-year-old as someone who needs to be diagnosed and medicated.

She sounds like a two-year-old who has some intense personality traits and behaviors. Who knows...5 years from now they may look like a precursor to a diagnosis that's made later, or they may look like a two year old being two. There are strategies that can work to help with her behavior, but both parents should ideally be on the same page with this.

if your husband is a reader (my ex isn't so I could never get him to read what I was reading) then perhaps the two of you could share some child development books together. If he's not a reader, look for a parenting class in your area that you can both take. His experience in raising a child with significant disabilities will of course color his parenting views so he needs to learn what is in the range of normal for neuro-typical children and what isn't. Then you both need to agree to approaches that will help her to learn and adapt to what is and isn't acceptable.

I really love the Positive Discipline series of books, and Raising Your Spirited Child was very helpful in understanding my oldest son's very intense temperament. Other people rave about the 123 Magic series of books. Browse for books with your husband and find ones that seem to fit your parenting views and your child's temperament and read them together.

I'm curious as to how well your daughter communicates? Does she speak clearly and in sentences? Does she speak at all? She sounds very frustrated! I would still take her to a pediatrician. I'm not a doctor, but I think 2 is way too young for ADHD/ADD medication.

I do not know if it is normal or a behavioral/developmental issue.. I would set up an appointment with your child's pediatrician and both you and husband attend with both of your questions. Your pediatrician will only be able to answer them or send you to a specialist to provide further help.

My son although he had some tantrum episodes was very mild mannered- even at two.. he did have a speech and language delay as well as a developmental one in which he was recommended for early intervention and therapy. He had difficult time transitioning from one activity to the next -often times resulting in becoming fixated on routine play and toys( cars,trains). We worked with visual aids for a first-then concept so he could better understand how to transition without getting upset.

Your entire environment sounds intense and over-stimulated with a lot going on. most children do not do well with discipline/time outs when things are off/unorganized, unstructured, inconsistent.. which could explain her behavior and hyperactivity.. some children react with those behaviors when things around them are chaotic with lots of noise.. she may have sensory processing delays as well..

My child had difficulty with sensory processing when out in public or at the dentist, or when their were any loud noises in background.. especially unfamiliar bells, whistles, etc..

Two year old children do not share, and they don't understand apologizing. But they're observant, and a two year old will notice a parent sharing, and a parent apologizing, and the child will learn to develop these abilities a little later on.

Time-outs aren't very effective at that young age either, especially multiple time-outs in a single day.

Screaming all day, crying all day - that's not normal. What do you do when she screams? If you try to out-scream her, or if you have to talk really loudly so she can hear you, you'll just make things worse.

Try getting down on her level, physically, and looking her in the eyes. Very, very quietly, whisper to her. "Let's use these kind of voices inside." And when she's quiet, make sure you interact with her, chat with her, involve her.

What does she eat and drink? Do you give her sugary drinks or snacks? Is there a predictable, structured routine in your home (bedtimes with a routine, meals served at the table at a regular time where everyone sits down and uses manners, etc)?

I think what's not normal in this situation is a father wanting to medicate a toddler and a baby, and a family that's living in chaos. Demonstrate the kind of behavior you want your children to have, establish some good routines, serve healthy meals with vegetables and without extra sugars and processed foods, and ask your kids' doctor for recommendations about behaviors and good parenting.

And write in paragraph form, please.

No, you absolutely do not give a 2 year old and a 15 month old medication.

I think you are probably over-punishing her. She is only TWO years old. Stop putting her in time out all the time.

You need to have a lot more fun with her. Watch some Supernanny episodes. One of the reason Supernanny is always successful is that she balances her discipline with lots of fun and praise for the children. I've seen shows where she takes kids who yell and scream all day and turns them into calm, happy kids.

I suspect you need to spend a lot more time loving, praising, and having fun with your daughter. And watch a few episodes of Supernanny for some ideas. And read the books suggested below.

if a pediatrician gives her ADHD meds at the age of 2? You need to see another doctor and report that one.

two year old don't typically share.

two year old DO NOT typically or NORMALLY destroy the house and scream. You can ask this question 3 or 4 times, the answers won't change. That is NOT normal behavior.

You MIGHT get more responses if you use a paragraph so that people can keep up and not read ONE LONG SENTENCE...yes. we see the periods. but man oh man. PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIENDS!!!

Record your daughter. Take that to her pediatrician. Get her evaluated to see if there is a medical/mental issue going on. DO NOT put her on ADD medications at the age of 2.

You and your husband MUST get counseling so you can learn to deal with her together and not fight over this.

I agree with you that no one should be talking about meds for a toddler. But I'm not an expert in child development and even if I were, I can't see your child's behavior so I have no idea if it is within a normal range. With that in mind, I suggest you ask your pediatrician for a referral to a developmental pediatrician to get her evaluated. Or at the very least a parenting class to learn new strategies. Regardless of what the outcome of an evalulation is, hopefully that person/class can suggest parenting techniques that will work for your daughter. Because it's clear that what you are doing now is not working, right?

I didn't bother trying to teach my kids at age 2 to share. I made sure each kid had something to play with. I would wait till the 2 year old dropped the toy, and then casually hand it to the other child. My kids weren't into sharing until older.

My kids also did not apologize at age 2. I don't think they would have understood what it meant.

I modeled good behavior for them. I would say "Sorry luv" if I bonked them accidentally. Or I'd show them sharing - but to expect them to be able to do it, no.

I didn't do time outs. If my child was screaming (thankfully was not the norm) - he/she was taken into the next room and in a calm voice I said "You are being too loud and you are hurting mommy's ears. When you calm down and use your nice quiet voice, you can come play with the trucks ... (play dough, watch a show, etc.) with us."

If my kids were 'done' or 'spent' as we said (overtired, too long a day, cranky, etc.) then same - quiet time, except I'd bundle them up in a blanket, put down for a nap, or put a show on, or hug them - just quiet time.

You don't mention naps or snacks, etc. here. Mine could be horrible if gone too long without food or nap. Or sick, ... etc.

So - sure, mine could be like yours - but not all day. No. I don't think that is 'normal' or a better word would be 'typical'. I had pretty laid back easy kids. I have friends where tantrums were the norm, so it was their normal.

If you have concerns, don't try to compare your child to others (won't really be helpful) and instead ask the pediatrician.

I would keep telling your daughter to use her words - and say that you will listen and help when she talks softly to you, and tells you what the matter is. Then be attentive. Just don't give her attention when she's screaming. I have said "I can't understand what you are saying. You need to calm down and when you can tell me quietly what is wrong, I will help you."

If she has trouble communicating (as one of mine did) make sure her hearing and speech is where it should be (ask the pediatrician).

It does not sound normal for a child to scream and cry all day. However, you said it seems to you like your daughter's behavior is typical of a 2 year old so I must ask why she is going to time out 5 times in a day. I don't think I sent my girls to time out more than 5 times in their entire life but if I had I think they would have screamed and cried all day too.

There is also no way I would put a 2 yo on a psychotropic drug.

Perhaps you and your husband should read a few books on normal childhood development.

Re: drugs...I thought this was a great video...
If you don't want to click on the link go on YouTube and search for Psychiatry: The Marketing of Madness

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uFkivsEy3CI

I have a different take than others. You had two kids very close together. Your daughter might feel that she doesn't have or get any attention. That could be why she acts like she does. Even negative attention is attention. Your husband sounds like a jerk. Telling the 15 month old that his sister has ADHD? Regardless of whether she does or doesn't, he needs to shut up.

I would suggest that you both spend one on one time with your daughter. Yes, even your husband needs to spend one on one time with his daughter if he can act like a caring and loving father to her. I suspect she feels abandoned and not well loved.

Instead of continually being negative and re-enforcing negative behavior, reward when she is good. Right now, she does what she is doing because she is getting your attention. Again, good or bad doesn't matter at least she has your attention.

Think about that. Oh, no doctor worth their salt with put a 2 year old on medication. Seriously! That's twisted.

I have mixed feelings about having such a young child apologize - I think they do not understand what that means, yet. They don't yet have a sense of empathy (which comes later in their development), so these are empty words. Many kids get the idea that "I'm sorry" means "Do-over. It never happened. The bad stuff I did is now canceled out." This is always what the early childhood directors around here taught preschoolers (and their parents), and they were 3-4 years old. I think it's more effective to separate the "offender" from the child she has offended, and deprive her of attention. No lectures, no intense parental involvement, just "in the room and close the door" with as little interaction as possible. "We don't hit" or "We don't throw toys" and then zero attention from the parent. The attention goes to the child behaving properly. The "offender" is told she can come out of her room when she can calm down.

The screaming is the same thing - "I can't understand you when you are screaming. When you are ready to talk with your inside voice, I will listen." Don't continue to argue or discuss it - she goes in her room until she can calm down. And the same goes for the 15 month old - kids understand repetition and consistency ("If I do A, I get to play. If I do B, I get put in time out.")

And "time out" only works if the child is left alone and will stay where he/she is put. If a parent has to be hands-on and constantly putting the child back in the time out chair, then the child is in control. The child needs to be alone during that time - so if she won't sit in a chair (most kids won't), then she goes to her room. Limit the toys and fun things in her room so that going in there isn't a treat. Put a child-proof doorknob cover on the inside so she can't open the door (don't lock the door), and don't respond to her screaming. Take her out in a few minutes, but if the behavior resumes, put her right back in. Every time. Same words. It's annoying for you, but if you are consistent, it works.

I doubt your husband will find a doctor who will medicate such a young child - but do take him to the pediatrician (or send him in your place) so he is more involved and so you both are on the same page. That's what jumps out at me from your post - you and your husband don't agree, and so by definition, parenting/discipline is either going to be inconsistent or it's all going to fall on your with him correcting you. That's not a good system for you, and it's not a good idea for kids to be raised in an environment where the parents are indecisive or at opposite poles, or where the father abdicates his responsibility except to criticize.

If your child has a diagnosable condition, that's where the doctor comes in. And there are therapies for young children that don't involve drugs, plus early intervention if needed. Your pediatrician can connect you to services available in your town as well as parenting classes for you and your husband to find strategies you can both commit to.

Please try to be generous with the use of paragraphs. Your question was a bit difficult for me to follow so I'll address a few things that stood out to me.

She may have ADHD or she may not. IMO, it's too soon to tell. At most, I would keep an eye on it and mention it to the pediatrician so s/he can monitor it.

I was watching a documentary on the first few years of life last night and someone mentioned how people think toddlers have trouble paying attention. She went on to say, however, that it only appears that way because toddlers are actually paying attention to EVERYTHING. I wouldn't worry about your kids not being able to focus on what their dad is trying to teach them just yet.

With a two year old, you can start to teach her things like sharing, but don't expect that she actually will. Baby development books say that kids learn to voluntarily share around age 3.

I know that many people use time-outs, but time-outs actually didn't work too well for me when I tried it with my daughter around age 2. She's now 4 and I still don't use it. I think there are more effective ways of discipline like ignoring certain negative behaviors (you have to use your judgment for this since some negative behaviors MUST be stopped). For instance, if she throws a tantrum, ignore it. Make sure she's in a safe place to do it so she doesn't end up hurting herself, but don't try to calm her or talk her out of it. Don't interact with her during a tantrum. Tell her that when she's ready to play nice again, you'll be there and actually be there for her when she calms down. She won't get it overnight, but with time she'll understand that throwing a tantrum will get her nothing.

You can also try to redirect. I think this works best for 2 year olds.

Lastly, I highly recommend reading some parenting books. After reading them, have your husband read them as well.

time outs do not work with toddlers. Please stop. Gentle word corrections are all that is needed with toddlers. I would try to find out why she is screaming all the time. She shouldn't be doing that. I would also suggest you read some books on child development and positive parenting. Check out Dr Markham.

If you think her behavior is normal, why do you put her in time out? Punishing a child (5 times in one day!!) for acting like a normal child is going to make things worse. Focus on taking time to love her and listen to her - do that with all 4 of your children. And don't worry about what your husband says about medication - the child he raised maybe needed all kinds of medication, that is what your husband is accustomed to, your husband is just giving the advice he is familiar with.

Thanks for the more detailed description of the situation.
An evaluation for behavioral issues is a good idea.
Crying and screaming all day every day has got to be a stress on everyone
And sorry but no, that doesn't sound normal.

This isn't something that ever happened with our son.
His temper tantrums were few and far between and he only pitched a fit in public once.
I think it's good for your other kids to be able to get away from that when they need some space.
I'd make a point of trading off with your husband so you and he both can have some time off from this too.
Please work with a doctor to help your family and your daughter.
I don't know if meds will be suggested or not but she's going to have a hard time making friends when she gets older if her crying and screaming don't get more under control.
If nothing can be done right now because she is so young - you and your husband need to learn some coping techniques - and a doctor should be able to point you in the right direction to get the help you need.

shes 2. i suggest you talk to ther dr about her behavior, or you can find a mommy group such as mops or a read with me library group to get around children her age. even a one day a week daycare would help. you can then observe other children (or in the case of the daycare ahve someone whos familiar with her age observe her.) then you will have a better sense of normal or not. i wouldn't medicate till after a teacher or dr recommends evaluation. teachers see it all from the age group they work with and will know who should be on meds vs one who just needs stricter instruction.

What you are attempting to do is not age appropriate for a two year old. What she is doing as far as sharing IS age appropriate, she isn't made to share yet. It's NOT supposed to happen for a while yet.

Your husband is right. Her behaviors are NOT normal as far as the rest.

You AND your husband need to work together, on the same page, and have your child evaluated by a professional that has a license to diagnose mental health/developmental issues.

That means going to a Children's Hospital in the Omaha area or going over to Denver/Aurora. It is imperative that you and your husband BOTH fill out your questionnaires without any help from the other parent. They do NOT want you to do it together. They want to see what you see and they want to see what your husband sees. If she has any other caregivers they will want them to fill out questionnaires also.

A proper assessment will include several hours of observation, physical assessments where they'll test her cognitive abilities, they'll want to watch her do everyday age appropriate things to see if she is on schedule, behind, or advanced, and more.

This testing will give you a rock solid analysis of what a professional team has come to discover. They will also be able to help you and your husband set goals and learn new skills so that you can both be on the same page as far as discipline and expectations.

If I lived in your house and was your child's parent that child would have already been to at least one Children's Hospital for evaluation and I'd be going to therapy with this child and probably the others would be invited to participate also.

I would not be able to live in your household with the constant screaming and crying. It is a trigger for me, I would have this issue addressed and taken care of. Whether medications or therapies were required, it would not be happening in my household. Your husband is right, this is not normal behavior.

Please research these options and call them. Ask them for an appointment for an in depth evaluation.

http://www.chsomaha.org/main/Behavioral-Health.aspx

https://www.childrenscolorado.org/doctors-and-departments...