Spinoff-Boys In Women's Locker Room

It is not a matter of what is appropriate for my children it is a matter of should someone be forced to be a party to my opinions. Having a child in a locker room is not a one way street. It is not J. a matter of one of my sons seeing an adult woman naked.

It is those adult women are being forced to allow my son to see them naked. That is the part I have no right to.

Do I care if some boy sees M. naked in a locker room, no, but unless you want to get permission from every women you have no right to make that decision for them.

I get that some people see the rights of the individual I am here pointing out the women in the locker rooms have rights too.

If I have to choose between leaving my son alone outside in public or making you feel uncomfortable, I choose my son's safety.
Perfect2 In the rare, very rare, occasion (that colors my belief that I need to protect my son) that a child is being attacked by a stranger, wouldn't that stranger know to put a hand over the child's mouth to prevent yelling??
Listening does not make M. feel better.

What I have a problem with is the six year old boy looking at my then five year old daughter. Which has happened before.

I think nudity is fine and nothing to be ashamed of but they are called private parts for a reason.

I wanted to add that I would have less of a problem with it if children were taught discretion. I tell my daughter it is impolite to stare, especially when people are changing.

So if you're in the locker room with your 6 year old daughter and she's naked, it's okay for her 6 year old male classmate to walk in and get a good look? I have no problem with nudity either, but my daughter has a right to her privacy as well. And sorry, but there were girls in my daughter's class at 7 and 8 who were beginning to develop. Think it's appropriate for a male classmate to see that?

Of course nudity does not equal sex. But we drill it into their heads from birth that these parts are PRIVATE.

And so a little modesty and a little privacy are not really BAD things.

:)

I don't really think it's about sex, it's about modesty.
I am not uptight about sexuality or nudity at ALL, if people want to walk around full on nude in the locker room, then more power to them. I prefer to walk from the locker to the shower in a towel. That's MY comfort level.
I guess someone else may not have a problem walking around nude in front of someone else's school age child, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I doubt most kids like it either, I'm sure it makes them uncomfortable too, because let's face it: it's J. not the norm in our culture.
I'm really glad our gym has junior locker rooms: separate facilities for girls and boys ages 5 to 12!

Well, my first thought when I read all those posts was, why were they talking about not sending a boy into a men's locker room? What did that have to do with the question? That center has 3 locker rooms, one being a family locker room. THAT'S where the woman should have taken her son if indeed he is over the age of the center's rules.

Also, when I join a center and I see their rules, I have the expectation that people will be held accountable to those rules. Personally, I don't want somebody's 6 year old boys looking at M. naked, period. I joined the center with the expectation that I wouldn't have to deal with that. I have the right to make sure it doesn't happen.

I think my son was 4 years old when his daddy saw him heading upstairs and asked him where he was going. He said "To watch Mommy take a shower." THAT'S when I didn't let my kids in the bathroom with M. or let them see M. naked anymore, LOL! Of ccourse they don't think of sex, but there is a point that we J. don't do that anymore. Child psychologists would have clear explanations about it, I'm sure.

Anyway, you are right that there's a difference in nudity and pornography. It's plenty interesting to take our children to an art museum and walk around in rooms full of naked women. I had to explain to my son that it's art and is okay while he was obviously uncomfortable as a young teen.

I don't know if this is enlightening or not. I J. know I wouldn't put up with someone's older boy in the ladies locker room when all that woman had to do was take him to the family locker room (very selfish on her part, in my view) and that you stop taking showers in front of your little boy when he starts asking to see Mommy take one!!

Dawn

My family is not prudish by any means, NO nudity does not equal sex. But if I'm walking into a locker room and changing clothes, do I need to worry about how I undress or dress because someone brought their kid in? No. They should be responsible for what is appropriate, in our society, and handle it accordingly. I remember trying to find a place to use the bathroom once in a remote area, in the mountains of Kenya where the children had actually never seen a white person before. They were following M. around everywhere, and I asked my translator about it and he J. laughed and said "They want to see if you're white everywhere..." That was funny, and whatever. But it was still a little odd to try to urinate with 20 children watching....and a goat that kept getting in my way. My children do NOT have access to pornography at their young ages. We do NOT teach that nudity is wrong. But there is a time and a place. And there are places that it's not appropriate and there are times (with strangers) that nudity is not needful.
Again, what is the problem here? You go to the Y (or wherever) in your swimsuit, you swim, you dry off, get back in your car, and take a shower and change clothes when you're home and clean. Bathrooms are different; they have stalls for privacy. A locker room is a room where people undress and put clothing in lockers. You don't need to bring your school aged children into a different sex locker room. What would you think if a man brought his school aged daughter into a room where strange men were undressing? You shouldn't force other people to conform to your ideas of how much nudity children should see, or how comfortable we need to feel in front of your kid. Our society does not see it as normal for an adult non-family member to be naked in front of children that are not theirs. So it makes us (and probably the kid) feel awkward. I provided inhome childcare and I remember a kindergartner (age 5 1/2) that I kept giggling and whispering that he'd seen his mother naked in the shower. I was very nonchalant in my answer, which was simply "Well it would have been very strange if she showered with clothes on. I'm glad she's normal" and then changed the subject. So yeah-it doesn't matter what you think little kids think or feel---they notice at that age.

Going to a pool is a priviledge, not a right. There are gender locker rooms for a reason. My 14 year old daughter (nor any of her friends) would NOT be comfortable with a 6 year old boy in the girls locker room.
There's an earlier post about people not following the laws of posted signs. I realize these are not laws, but when its a public space, it is the law for that establishment.
If your choice not to follow the rules inhibits another, then I do think its not right. ie, girls not changing in there because of a 6 year old boy.
I do have the obligation to teach my children about boundaries, but not when it is at the expense of other children.
J. my opinion.

Its one thing for my kid to see M. naked, it's quite a different matter if yours does. What about my younger daughter? Is it okay for him to see her too? To see you nake is nudity; for him to see M. is inappropriate nudity.

I am a very modest person and I would be very uncomfortable with someone seeing M. naked that I'm not related to.

I don't have a problem with what people decide is appropriate or inappropriate regarding nudity in their own homes. But in public the generally accepted maximum age for boys in a women's locker room is 5 or younger. I think that is perfectly reasonable. Many places have family bathrooms or family locker rooms for people to use if they are trying to manage children that are on the borderline of being able to go in a locker room by themselves. Most boys over 5 are not to comfortable with changing in front of strangers of the opposite sex so why would they be comfortable with the strangers changing in front of them.

I think there is a HUGE difference between being naked in front of family and being naked in front of strangers of the opposite sex. It has to do with teaching basic modesty. And this from a person who regularly changed clothes (discreetly) while standing on the side of public roads during my whitewater river days :)

I also don't think it is appropriate for people to strut around naked in a locker room. I really don't need to see other naked bodies to make my life complete. Showering is one thing but then please put on a towel people!

Well if there isn't a family locker room...I don't really care. My six year old is not going into a men's locker room. PERIOD. I don't really care who has a problem with that. If a women tells M. to take my son out of there, I can tell her where I'd like her to shove her demands. I can guarantee my son wouldn't be facing a way, that he could see others.

With that said, I would have him stand in the entryway while I check and see if anyone is nude, at that time. It's J. a respect thing. I also think it's important to teach children to look in another direction! When I was little, my dad had to take M. to a men's locker room once. I was only 5. He checked before hand, and I was not allowed to change until the room was empty. I faced the lockers, so that I could not see any men. Is that so hard for other people to do with their children? It IS possible to be in a locker room, and not look or see other bodies. Most people aren't going got walk in with their opposite gender child, and have them change and face people naked willy nilly. That's J. a silly assumption.

If the scenario were reversed, would you feel it appropriate for a 6 year old girl to be in a men's locker room?

It's not about "ogling" but a reasonable expectation of honoring other people's sense of modesty and privacy. All the years I spent working out, children of any sex were not ever allowed in the locker rooms. They were to remain in the daycare room, no exceptions. I would have been very uncomfortable with any child being in the locker room. It's a very adult setting in a locker room where other adults shouldn't have to censor themselves.

Do we really want to teach our children that it's acceptable to override other people's modesty and rights? Do we really want our children to see other people naked when the children might be uncomfortable about it? My mom used to take M. to her aerobics classes when I was a child and never let M. in the locker room and I was relieved about that. I would have hated it. I wouldn't have cared seeing someone in my family naked, but seeing strangers naked? Not my business as a child and it made M. anxious.

My children have no interest in it. They're okay with this sort of thing in the home, but they are modest outside of the home. They're respectful about other people's boundaries and what they "should" and "shouldn't" see. They already know that everyone poops, pees, farts, and is naked under their clothing. Why reinforce it and make things uncomfortable by forcing a locker room situation?

A toddler in a locker room is ok, in my opinion. They have no awareness yet. But as soon as a child understands the difference between a boy and girl (usually age 4 or 5) he/she should be going into the gender appropriate changing room with the appropriate parent. If I was planning to be somewhere without my husband and i had my 6 year old son with M., I'd plan ahead for alternative changing space. There have been times where we've passed on an activity because the appropriate facilities or parent is not available. There is a wide range of 6 year olds out there. My BFF's son looked like a 10 year old when he was 6. Do you want what appears to be someone's 10 year old boy standing in the locker room while you change? My son, at 10 years old, looks to be about 5, and acts about 5 as well. (we often have to fight to pay admission for him at parks because people think he's so little.) Do you want my 5-year-old looking boy standing in in your locker room? Because I can guarantee he'd be oogling you.

It's one thing for my own 6 year old child to see M. naked. Quite another for someone elses child.
Also, you never know, there may be some 6 year old "ogler". I know some kids that are like that because of their environment. I'm cool with nudity, but there are boundaries. J. because kids know we are naked under our clothes doesn't mean we have to allow them to see us nude and be okay with it.

The problem is that Mom isn't the only naked one in the locker room.
Totally different if my own child is seeing M. naked than if someone elses is.

someone elses child seeing M. naked is inappropriate nudity. My child seeing someone else naked is in appropriate nudity.
Nope Nudity does not equal sex but it does lead to it. It's a bit difficult to have sex with all your clothes on.

ETA: My 7 yr old started going to the mens room by himself at 6. A 6 yr old is perfectly capable of going into a changing room by himself.

I guess I need to go back and read the original post; however, I'm wondering what would be wrong with standing J. outside the door. I had to send my nephews in to a men's room before because they refused to go in the women's. I J. stood right outside the door. They are old enough to yell at 6. If they had yelled, I would have been in there in a heartbeat. It seems they could stand J. outside the door of a women's room also. They could yell! If my child yelled, I would go running out of a locker room naked or not.

I was kind of surprised by some of the answers as well......I can't really enlighten you about those as this is how I feel about the whole situation:

I don't love being in a locker room and anyone seeing M. naked - whether it be other ladies, etc. Unless I am only stripping down to my undergarments I go into a stall or something. If someone has their opposite gender child in there - same thing. I really don't get the big deal to be quite honest but maybe I am naive to think that children of the ages being discussed are still innocent.

I would bring my boys in the locker room....couldn't care less if it made other people uncomfortable....that's on them.
I had my boys sit on a bench and face the wall, or sit in a changing room.
L.

I don't care all that much if a boy is ogling M. now. I've given birth and brreatfed everywhere under the sun. But when I was a child, or a teen, or even a young woman I was a little more uptight about who sees M. naked. I can't imagine there is a six year old boy an the planet who wouldn't mention the fact that he happened to see his female classsmate naked in the locker room, or that there is a six year old girl on the planet that would be OK with that. Or a twleve year old girl being seen naked by the six year old she babysits, the scenarios can go on and on. There is no reason for a boy to be in the womans locker room.

i'm with you Kozmoma.

and i'm really starting to get piss off with this whole discussion.
What the hell!! are you all parading around, strutting your naked stuff from one end of the locker room to the other??? are your 6 yo girls dancing around naked for 20 mins?? do NONE of you own a damn towel??

I do not think most boys being dragged into a locker room are rubbing their hands with glee, shouting out Oh boy Boobies!!

THe only way this becomes an issue to M. at all is if the Mother of the boy, ALLOWS him to have a free for all, OR!!! If you don't turn your back to him or use a towel. He isn't going to see anything if you as an adult handle the situation by simply getting dressed!!

I am by no means a gym rat, but we use the pool daily in the summer and for THREE years I have never ever ever encountered this problem,

I want to ask if perhaps there are people of other races ( I am white and live in a prodominately middle class white city) that don't teach modestly and maybe this is were the difference is coming, because like i said, there may have been boys around but they were never right next to us, or oogling anything. the whole discussion is J. ridiculous.

Our Local YMCA has a rule that no boys over 5 are allowed in the women's locker room, however I too wouldn't want my 6 year old son alone in the men's locker room. I wouldn't care if he was in the women's at 6, but where do you draw the line, it becomes a slippery slope, aho gets to decide at what age it becomes innappropriate? They do have an "adults only" women's locker room, where no one under 18 is allowed at all, and definitely no males of any kind, so if you don't want a little boy to see you, if you are over 18 you can go in that one it has a combination lock on the door. If the boy has special needs, but is over 5, there is also a separate room for handicapped and special needs, it is in the entryway to the women's locker room, but around a corner from the general area where women get undressed, and has a door that can be closed, if needed. I think having a fmaily or special needs locker room would be a good idea for moms with little kids, but not all facilities have the extra space.

If it is inappropriate for someone else's child to see M. naked - then it is inappropriate for any parent to have either their son or daughter in the locker room. If that is the case - then those family locker rooms will need to be a bit larger than they are. Somehow it is ok for 6 year old boys to see lots of naked male strangers, but not naked female strangers. I don't really get it.

Maybe if breasts weren't such a mystery, they could be looked at as fulfilling their nutritional function and stop being such a ridiculously big deal. My son no more 'ogles' boobs than he 'ogles' the dragonfly he is watching or the truck driving down the street.

It is preferential for parents w/opposite sex kids to use the family locker rooms - J. because it seems more comfortable to some people. BUT when they are not available (being cleaned, repaired, closed or a facility J. doesn't have one), I will take my son in with M..

@perfect2 - many locker rooms are WAY bigger than a bathroom, have multiple rooms (showers, locker areas, lounges) and have multiple entrances. So, no - a child might not be able to hear you and in some facilities could easily become confused and wander out the wrong exit and be completely lost.

My 7-year-old DD has recently become modest. When we were in teh women's locker room at the pool where she takes lessons, there was a boy her age in there and she did not want to change in front of him, so we went into a bathroom stall for her to change. I can understand her feelings on that. We often see boys in there who are younger, but that doesn't seem to bother her.

I feel for the moms of boys. I think it's a hard situation. I personally don't mind boys up to 7 or so in the women's locker room, but I do understand why my DD is shy about it.

Our local pool does not have a family locker room and there is a sign that states "no boys over 5 in womens locker rooms" I have 2 boys ages 6 and 8. We usually change in the car, or behind a towel, both inconvienient. My 8 year old doesn't like going in the mens locker room by himself and I won't let the 6 year old in by himself. If I send both of them in the mens locker room together goofing off usually occurs. I hate the whole situation.

Regarding the reverse "6 year old girl in mens room" This is much more rare J. because it is usually the moms that take the kids swimming.

My oldest is now 8. We usually opt to wait for the "family" locker room and that's getting...odd, because he is getting curious, so I have to figure out a way to modestly tend to my needs now, while still keeping his little brothers in check.

That said, if his Dad isn't w/ us and if I do not feel it's safe to send him into a locker room or public restroom on his own (depends on the setting), he comes w/ M.. I have him change in a curtained area (like a shower), we stow our goods, and are out quickly. If someone else has an issue w/ it, too bad. I don't let him stand around staring.

my 5 (6 in sept) son often cuddles with M., a LOT in fact. we are great cuddlers. a couple times he has attempted to "fluff" my boob as if it is a pillow. it's not appropriate. it's also not appropriate for him to stare at them (which is why i don't change in front of him) nor is it appropriate for him to moon his class (front and back) of preschoolers. it's J. not. i teach him that some things are private. because they are. J. because everyone has them, doesn't make them public property. i would use a family changing room if available - but no, i would not send my 5 year old (who looks more like 7 or 8) into the mens changing room alone. he'd be with M., sorry. and i would have him look down or at the wall or something. but his safety, in the end, IS most important.

I agree with Melanie E. completely.

I TOTALLY agree with you! I have a 4 year old and 6 year old boy...and nudity is no big deal to us. I have had talks about inappropriate touching, etc. Why we must wear clothes outside or away from home. I do want them to know what's ok and what's not and know that they can talk to M.. I mean we don't run around naked all the time or anything...but getting up and ready in the am and getting ready for bed...putting on swimming suits, etc. we only have 1 bathroom...we make do, and it is NOT a big deal. I also usually have the boys come to the womens bathroom with M., unless my husband is with us. For one, I know they are safe...and for two, who wants their kids putting their hands all over a mens bathroom. YICK!!