Son with Major Meltdown Issues

Sleep, nutrition, love, and family counseling -- something is going on here -- children model behavior they see or act out due to the way they are being treated by their family, school...

I wonder if I it as simple as his sugar being off or needing supplementation. If you need suggestions, I have good ones. Good luck, G. Chambers

Hi J.,
Just wondering, how long has this behavior been going on? Could it be the adjustment to the new baby girl? just a thought, perhaps she is getting a lot more attention and he doesn;'t like it? IF so perhaps try and schedule some time alone with just him, take him to a park, out for icecream even come along on errands with just him on the weekend if possible. perhaps this alone time might make a difference. Also, I have learned with my 3 young ones, 6, 4 1/2 and 22 months, don't always tell them in advance about events, I have had bad luck in the past telling them too far in advance and then it's cancelled by the weather or someone gets sick etc.. Good luck and hang in there.

Have you read "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk"? It sounds like he may have some sort of need that is not getting met. And sometimes it is really hard to figure out just what that is.

T. S.

Parents can get really distracted by their child's behavior: getting lost in their reaction to it, judgment of it, pushing against it, attempts to punish and control it, and the stories they are telling about it and about their child. The secret is moving beyond the behavior and your stories about it to addressing the needs motivating the behavior and your Higher Purpose, which is Love and Connection.

You can't control any human being except yourself, ever. You can only control how you are going to meet your son and his behavior. Will it be with peace and kindness, being the change you wish to see, or will it be with anger and negativity, meeting him with the same energy he's offering and escalating the situation? In the situations you describe, meeting him with peace and kindness may look like acknowledging and accepting the feelings he is expressing to you. Offering validation is not reinforcing bad behavior, it's about meeting a person where he is with love and understanding. Once he begins feeling heard and you become the absorbing light of peace and positive energy in his life, trust begins to be rebuilt and he will become open to your new, evolved perspective.

Some resources I have found very helpful in my parenting journey have been the self-inquiry process in "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie (thework.com) and the books "How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk" by Faber & Mazlish and "Unconditional Parenting" and "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn. There is also a DVD called "Unconditional Parenting" by the same author.

I have a son with anger control problems. I know your issues are different but......

We tried everything to help him. In all honesty, it takes loads of trials to find one that works. It does get better as they get older and can verbalize what exactly is bothering them. My son is now 9 and we are much better at helping him turn his behavior and attitude around in a matter of minutes. We had this issue last night and he did have three meltdowns but each one only lasted a few minutes. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. We learned not to threaten because he was so out of control he didn't hear us anyway.

In our case we tried the following with some success:

*123 Magic--great ideas for us when he was younger.

*Now we send him to his room or isolation if we are out. No discussion at all. We simply say "we can't discuss this with you right now so please get yourself under control and then we will talk with you." That's it. When he feels he is ready he comes back. If he isn't ready we say the same thing again and send him away from us.

*We have worked hard with him about different techniques to stop his brain from continuing with negative talk.

I would be willing to talk to you privately about what we have learned. If you want to email me feel free. Good luck!

HI J.,

I just sat through a mini seminar from a family therapist & he touched on these types of issues. One lady asked when tantrum type behavior should no longer be seen or accepted. His response was if anything like this goes on longer than 5 years of age - the child should really be evaluated to know if something else might be going on with the child..... So not knowing your parenting style up until now - you may want to speak to your pediatrician about this issue or seek advice from a child family therapist. We have an almost 6 year old (dec b-day) & we would not accept behavior like this out of her. She must show respect for us & her siblings or she just doesn't get to participate. If she back talks - she loses things & her ability to do fun things. We have parented like this from day one though so we do not see this type of thing out of her today.... You have to set limits & follow through with consequences. They have to know they can not do or act in certain ways or life for them will not be fun or enjoyable. The therapist that spoke said that to many parents want to make life "easy" or "enjoyable" at all times for the kids & that is just not realistic. They do not learn that life has ups & down & consequences for bad behaviors. I think you need to seek out some parenting advice from someone you respect at this point. Do not let this go on any longer though as he gets older & stronger willed - your problems will just get bigger & harder to control. Right now is the time you have to get serious about changing this in your home. He is only teaching your daughters how to behave badly at this point too. You are in charge - not your son & he needs to get this message loud & clear. Tough love parenting is hard - but it's so worth it in the end when you have great well behaved kids that you can take anywhere & be proud of. Be strong mom & get on top of this now.

I had issues with my son when he was four. One thing that he had a problem with was sleep apnea. My dr was not so concerned but I was. It turned out that his adnoids blocked his air passages and that is what caused it. The broken sleep did not help the behavior. We had his adnoids and tonsils removed and now had behavior problems to deal with. I found it very helpful that my husband and I would take turns laying in bed with him at night about 15 minutes before bed time giving him his own time with us. We would use this time to talk about things that bothered him through the day. We would then try to work through them. When he would act out I also warned of his punishments if he did not behave but never followed through on them. Well know we do. He gets one warning and told what the punishment will be and then he gets the punishment. He gets grounded to his room for the rest of the day. The only time he gets to come out is to use the bathroom and to eat. Also we have taken the TV, or computer, or Wii time away for a few days as punishment. Grounding works the best. It seems harsh but my son behaves so much better now he will be seven soon. We finally stuck to our guns about one warning and punishments, that he knows it will not be tolerated anylonger. Out trips are much happier knowing that he will behave. We also got to the point where we hired a babysitter and he had to stay home. He hated that and we have never had to do it again. He knows we love him we make sure to tell and show him all the time. I even tell him I love him even if I am angry at him. I tell him I am just not happy with his actions. Good Luck

Very sad. Has he been exhibiting this behavior for long? I would check with his school and see if he is like this. If he is exhibiting these behaviors, talk to the counselor at school and see what they suggest. Has something changed in his life recently or is he feeling he is not getting enough attention???? He may just need to be the kind of kid that needs a "heads up" on something...the ten-minute warning, followed by the five-minute warning...etc.... or he may be vying for your attention. You need to talk to him when he is not upset. Tell him that his behavior is not acceptable when he is not out of control and give him options on ways that he CAN handle himself. Telling him when he is out of control doesn't do any good. (He could be using this as a way to manipulate you.) Respond... don't REACT....Telling him "OH...DON'T SAY YOU HATE US!" is what he is looking for! Positive reinforcement when he is acting good can go a long way! Good luck.

HI J.- I agree with a lot of what has been said. 123 Magic is a great resource. Saying things and walking away is another. And not telling him things ahead of time I think would work too. However one thing that hasn't been said would be ruling out something physical/or biological. My son has had the same coping issues since he was 2 years old. We had melt downs, hatred, and as he got older, physical. We had seen numerous Dr.'s all of them telling us it was behavioral...nothing but just pure brat. Then we moved here to Chicago and got hooked up with a Dr. at Alexian Brothers who has through trial and error has been able to bring us the boy we have always loved, but not always liked! He does take medicine, but IT IS for the better. You can try the 100% natural route as we did for years......reading book after book, controlling sleep, food, and trying everything under the sun to remain calm. But ultimately the truth in it all is that God made us all and sometimes there is a chemical imbalance that needs more than TLC and patience. Our son is almost 10 now and just in the past 6-9 months we have gotten our boy back. I wish I would have pushed harder when he was 6 and it would have saved us YEARS of crying, begging and pleading for a change. This may not be the route you thing is best for you and only YOU know your son, it was just something no one else had touched on..... I wish you all the best of luck!! Stay strong!
I just read another posting.....one thing I had to learn was this was not about me (us) as parents. We had been tough. We did follow through, we DID NOT accept the behavior. But you know what it wasn't about us as parents but about him. As I said God created this precious gift and no matter how we parented, his biological self was what it was. I do agree that effective parenting is vital....but it may not be the root!

Sounds like he is need of some one on one attention, or just plain more attention than the girls get. Nip it early or it will just continue and escalate. And don't spoil him...it almost sounds like he is with the things he is saying.

C.

I'm sorry you're having such trouble. Have you discussed this with your pediatrician?

Ugh! I think there is so much overreaction out there. Your son is just trying (successfully) to control you. My first instinct is not ADD or a psycologist. Just control and pushing limits.

Have a sitter lined up on an as-needed basis. If your son starts up, you give him a warning. If he persists, then he doesn't get to go. No discussion, no changing you mind. It will only take once or twice and he will learn that you mean what you say.

I have seen too many parents that say "no", the child does it anyway, and the parents don't do anything about it. If you mean "no", you expect him to listen. It is exhausting, but you must carry out everything you say. If it is something that doesn't matter, or he can have a choice, then don't say "no". Once you tell him to do something, you had better have the energy to enforce it. Better teach him to obey you now, it will only get tougher as he ages.

My daughter was forced to stay home from 4th of July fireworks one year, and she has never forgotten it. She knows I mean what I say.

J.

I have several kids who have major melt down issues. I have stories to tell especially from the youngest 3 of my 5 children, but to say what works, well, first consider if he is getting enough good sleep and has a good balanced diet (candy & sugar can make kids crazy). If may help you to know that everything with kids is a stage and they do outgrow it, so be patient. What really helped me was a book called 123 Magic. It can be found at Amazon, etc. Watching the "nannys shows" also helped me a lot.

Most important is for you to maintain composure and set a good example (which is very VERY hard) After a time out, or he calms himself down from the episode, sit down and talk to him calmly and ask him what he did and why. At first he won't answer, but someday he'll learn what triggers his reaction, and why. Be consistent with what you allow and how you discipline, so he knows the rules. Give youself a time out when your upset or angry. I give myself "mommy timeouts" to calm myself down before going back to the child. Showing anger or screaming back just works against you. Remember he is looking at your reaction, so you need to set the good example of how he needs to act. Good luck and rest assure you are not alone.

J. (mom of 5 including 8 year old triplets)

Hi, I read all these responses, because I have similar issues with my now 6-year old daughter... The one response that I really enjoyed reading was from Kristie. She hit on things to the point that she tried all the "right things", and they just didn't work...so SHE had to go to more drastic measures, etc....

I did talk to my Pediatrician, and she did suggest that I should take my daughter to a Child Psycologist/Psychiatrist, can't remember. To be quite truthful, I have had the business card for a whole year and ever did anything about it, and here she is 6 years old, and things are the exact same, yet probably alittle worse....and it is VERY depressing. I FEEL like such a failure, I FEEL like a bad Mom, I FEEL like I stink, etc., etc. And it is VERY depressing....
Anyway, the one thing that I do know is that what works for one may definitely not work for another. I remember when (BEFORE I HAD KIDS), I would go to the grocery store and I would see a kid screaming, and the Mom giving in to the kid by giving them a snack, or whatever. I thought to myself that I would never do that... Ha-Ha! I also know that sometimes you have to do what you have to do to survive. My daughter is VERY strong-willed, and it seems like your son is too, so that just adds to the tantrums, etc.... AARRGGHH, who said being a Mom was easy, huh?!
The BEST of luck to you - please let us know if you find anything that works...I would love to hear about it. Just know that you are being a WONDERFUL MOM, because if you didn't care and you didn't want to do the best for your child, you wouldn't be doing what you are doing now....

God Bless Us All!!!!!!

Amen to Cari's resonse, and may I just add that there could/should be an alternate (boring) activity for him to do since he couldn't behave properly with the family outing. I don't know what- maybe cleaning part of the house (even though he's probably not that effective), or other chore. Something to make sure that staying home isn't more fun than going out.

We had some similar problems with our son and daughter, but we overcame- it took some sacrifices on everyone's parts in the short run, but in the long run it all works out. How? We read '1-2-3 Magic' and it worked like...MAGIC!
Good luck!

If this is new behavior, then I agree with the people who advise to look for the following because this could be triggering anxiety. Kids don't know how to cope with anxiety:
- is he getting enough sleep? (does he wake in the night; have trouble falling asleep; goes to bed too late - up too early?)
- is he reacting to new sibling?
- He's 6 - is he in a new school environment?

Yes to any, ask your pediatrician for help.

If this is not new behavior but it's become intensified, make detailed notes and talk with your pediatrician. It might be as simple as enforcing rules you never needed to before or it might be something else. Just be consistent in your methods so that you don't aggravate your child.

In the meantime, give your child firm notice when you will need to be doing anything (5 minutes til dinner, etc.). Give praise for a good job trying anything. Institute "chill outs" - not a punishment, but a way for your child to channel his anger and walk away from a situation, compose himself and return when he can participate.

Finally, there are lots of books out there but I hesitate to offer titles because you might not need some (or any) of them. Find out what's going on with the help of your pediatrician first and feel free to email me if you want to know more about explosive behavior, adhd, sensory issues. My oldest has it all, but he is a true delight thanks to the tools we have to help him. My youngest simply has temper tantrums!

Does this happen only when your on an outing or special trip with the kids? Cause my brother was like that. Nothing was ever enough for him, especially if he knew about it ahead of time. He wouldn't melt down, but he would always get disappointed and would bring everyone else down with him. Making the family trip unbearable for the rest of us.
My parents stop telling us where we were going and when. Everything was a surprise. We didn't know what we were doing till we got there. We didn't know if we were getting anything or how many rides we could go on or how long we were staying till it happened. It seemed to work. He didn't have any time to build it all up in his head and make it some huge thing that he would eventually get disappointed in if it didn't meet his standards. Hope this helps.

J.,
I feel for you, thats for sure. We are and have been having this issue with our 9, almost 10 year old. It has finally gotten him in trouble at school. He is disruptive to our family like and his 3 other siblings. We have finally come to the point that I contacted the school social worker. She has refered us to Alexian Brothers hospital that has a TON of programs for this sort of issue. All of it is talk therapy, and most of it is free if not then covered by insurance. WE have come to this point only after seeing the ped. first to rule out anything biological. The social worker seems to think he is a little delayed on his coping skills and maybe change or something new is overwhelming and his first reaction is to "freak out" for lack of knowledge of what else to do. I'll let you know how it goes with our boy and what my experience is like. The only thing I can really tell you for sure is deal with it as soon as you can. We have been living like this since he was about 3 1/2 and I wish I had done something sooner instead of the continual cycle of punish, resentment and hope he grows out of it.

J.,

I have no advice, just sympathy. My son is also 6 and I am having very similiar issues. He back talks everytime we ask him to do something. He says he hates everything or its stupid or disgusting. Or, he makes noises or says 'whatever'. He is seemingly unhappy most of the time. If he doesn't get his way, he also throws crying tantrums. My daughter who will be 3 in Feb. is much better behaved. Please let me know if you get any good advice or if you get alot of Moms saying its just a phase..
His behavior is so hot and cold, I never what kid I'm going to get next. Wanted you to know you're not alone.
Stay strong.
Cherylynn
Mom of 2
Lockport

Is it fear...he is out of his comfort zone and acts out about it because he is afraid? Or could it be control...lack there of...he is feeling like the only way he has control or has a choice is to act out and "ruin" everyone elses time? Try making things seem like his idea. Start early in the morning, "Do you want to get up now, or in five minutes?" "Do you want to get dressed now or brush your teeth first?" "Do you want to wear this or this?" "Do you want to walk with daddy or mommy?" "Do you want to walk to the car or hop...be silly!" Remeber you control everything really because you give the choices!!! If he is not having fun ask,"Do you want to have a good time or do you want to watch us have a good time and be unhappy?" Because if he is ruining your time you have to give him that power (I know...easy to say and so hard to feel...but you do control your emotions and he is learning how to control his and learning he can control yours in the process.) With kids it is so easy to focus on the behavior which is actually just the product of what is really going on with all concerned and their experimenting with how to be. Though it is hard, when things get hard and you start to get upset, work with your husband, take a step back, give yourself a time out, and see things from a different point of view, it helps! Good Luck!!

Hi,
I see you've gotten a number of suggestions. My five year old has some similar issues. I can tell you that as a general rule, if a kid acts up, feeding them and putting them to bed is one good handling. As you mentioned, though, first thing in the morning, that may not be doable. I'd get rid of sugar in the house, plus the other "agravators" like food colorings, msg (in all it's various "names" like "natural flavorings) and sugar substitutes--nutrasweet, etc.
I'd also suggest you read "Dianetics The Modern Science of Mental Health" if you would like to have a better understanding of why he has these reactions, and how you can help avoid the outbursts, and erradicate them when he's a little older--without drugs.
You may also want to check out seeing a homeopath. I've had amazing results with little ones and their issues with mine.
Good luck!

My brother was having trouble with his son. He had meltdowns over silly things. He had trouble with affection. He did things repetitively like jumping in place for an hour in front of the tv watching a movie or rocking constantly.

Turned out he has a mild form of autism called Aspergers. I hope I spelled that correctly.

I was reading over some of the responses and I definitely agree that you should seek some therapy for him. I recommend seeing a social worker, mostly because although I am now a stay at home mom, I was a social worker and I think they are the best! I personally would look for an approach which combines cognitive therapy (talking about stuff) with behavioral therapy (real changes you and your son can do at home). It might only take one or two sessions to get some good ideas to use at home. I also agree with making sure he has enough sleep, and I would look into food allergies as well. The one piece of advice I completely DISAGREE with is spanking. Hitting a child who has expressed that he feels you hate him would only reinforce that he is worthy of being hated and deserves to be hit. A really bad idea. You and your family deserve some peace. Good luck!

This has happened to us...we took 2 cars and the moment the negative bahavior occurred the child was removed and taken home...let me just say it has never happened again...now the threat of staying at home with a sitter changes ones attitude mighty fast! They saw that we followed through on the threat and no more issue.

My son did alot of this at that age as well and I am so impressed by how far we have come in such a short time. He will be 8 in December. I really dont know how we did it outside of our religion. We talked and pray to God all of the time. I took him to counceling at personal growth and I dont feel that man helped at all. after awhile we went back to counceling with Dr. Bolnick and she is fantastic and gave us great ideas to help. It is so sad to see your son with such low self esteem. My son was classic in if he felt miserable he was going to make sure everyone else was to. There is nothing you can say during a meltdown that is going to make him feel any different so I would just soothe my son and tell him I was sorry he felt that way. Validating his feelings. As a nurse in a peds office I get a lot of calls from parents with boys going through this so it has helped me really connect to them. Good Luck and God Bless!

My younger son was like that. Wish I could give some fabulous advice. I decided that I wouldn't tell him ahead of time, I decided that the next time we would go somewhere without him (didn't happen of course, just sounded good) and for example if we were in a restaurant he would argue a lot. Well, not always. So there were the good, the bad and the sometimes. He is older now, he is mellowing, but I never could figure out how to handle things like that. He was just unpredictable. I suppose trying to let him know that if he will act like that then he doesn't come, but it is difficult to leave one person out of a family outing. My husband used to threaten a babysitter just for him, and occasionally that worked. We had to take each situation one day at a time. Experiment. We found that if we were stating consequences that we really had to follow through but that really hurt US SOMETIMES. Just musing here, but I wonder if little people can have things like social anxiety disorder. I sure wonder. WE have had some miserable experiences, too. And a lot of times before we'd go, he'd start the fighting. I wish I knew an answer. On the bright side he is older, drives and goes out without us and sadly at times it is a relief to just go out with my husband and my other son is older and away in the service. I will be interested in hearing the other moms. Good luck! S.

I skimmed the responses, and didn't see where anyone recommended "Love and Logic." My daughter has had similar behavioral issues, and I found the L&L series of books, recordings, etc. to be very helpful. There's also a resource in Chicago called Tuesday's Child. My daughter and I attended an eight week group session on Saturdays - me with other parents and she with other kids. I think L&L and TC have similar approaches. For me, it was beneficial to attend TC and then use L&L as follow-up. The most important part has been discovering that my actions and reactions are the key to my daughter's behavior.

For the past 9 months my now 6 year old son was and still is the same way. I had him evaluated at alexian brothers and it turns out he isn't on the autism spectrum at all but he does have anxiety along with some occupational issues (he's behind in gross and fine motor). I also have a 9 month old and if you notice, the behavior started when she was born. Maybe coincidental, maybe not, I don't know. He is in counseling now for his anxiety and is seeing an occupational therapist. The therapist describes the feeling that he has when he has meltdowns. It's like being overloaded. We turn down the lights and try to talk in a calm voice which I admit is very difficult because he can be sooo...out of control. It sounds like your son is like mine and doesn't know what to do with his negative energy and shouts and has a poor self esteem. I would suggest getting him evaluated. If he doesn't fall on the spectrum then maybe he has anxiety or needs some occupational therapy to help him and you learn some ways to help him. I struggle to believe that my son just can't help his outbursts, the doctors say that some of his outburts are due to his behavior and some he just gets so overloaded that he can't help it. The sooner you get him some help the sooner you can start helping him and it's better to do it now rather than later. We went through a few months where we couldn't go out with him. It's still touch and go with him. He can be very moody and just plain impossible. You may find like me, trying to talk to him or ask questions about his behavior doesn't work. It's like they shut out every reasonable thought or idea when they have a meltdown. Another thing O.T. suggests along with dimming the lights is trying to have a calm and quiet place where he can go by himself. Please email me if you have any questions, i'm clickable. Stay strong and positive. I say that now because my 6 year old is still sleeping and in a few hours I may need someone to tell me that. All three of our kids are the same age so I understand how difficult this is for you! Kudos to you for trying to get help and advice.

Have you had him evaluated for ADD or ADHD? What kind of activities is he involved in? Does he watch too much TV, Video games?....What kind of chores does he have to do? Are you consistent with discipline? Counseling always helps! Do NOT allow disrespectful behavior, ever.

I would get help right away. It is not a healthy environment for any of you. We have been going for family counseling for the past few months and it has really helped. Our counselor is in Naperville if you are interested. I am sure this group can help you with recommendations in your area. Good luck!

Hi J.!
What has changed in your life recently? Has he been this way for a while now and the behavior has just gotten worse?
My son is 4 1/2 and is autistic and this sounds alot like his behavior before he was diagnosed. He is still prone to anxieties...and always wants something...more to have something to hold and feel secure in strange surroundings I think. But thru intervention especially behavioral intervention - he has come a long way. Contact the social worker and psychiatrist at school. How is he doing in class?
And remember - by him ruining every outing, you are giving him what he wants-- to be removed from it. He is getting attention...although it is bad attention...he becomes the center of everyone's world.
Good luck!
S. in Lisle

Don't tell him what the plans are before leaving the house. The surprise is that you get a babysitter (grandparent if you're lucky enough) and he gets left at home because he doesn't know how to behave. Because he's determined to "run things" let him try to run the sitter (GOD help her). He needs to learn an important lesson here so don't cave in.