Sleep Training Issues

At 21 months this is going to be tough to break. Sleep training should start at about 2 months. Even though I breastfed my daughter I tried hard not to let her fall asleep at my breast. Not to say that there weren't nights I rocked her to sleep. That's one of the great joys of parenthood. But doing it every night for hours can be difficult. They need to learn at a young age how to soothe themselves.

I don't recommend cold turkey. Try the Ferber method. It will be tough at first but it works. Start with the same routine every night and then lay him down. Go in after 2 minutes, then 5 minutes, then 10 minutes then 15 minutes. From there, go in every 15 minutes. When you go in smile reassuringly, don't speak at all (except maybe the first time you go in to explain again, very calmly and soothingly, that it's bedtime) and lay him back down (without picking him up). The first night might take 2 hours, the second an hour and the third should take less then 1/2 hour. You'll both feel better because you're checking on him and he'll eventually give up, knowing his crying isn't working. If you think he needs it stay in the room with him for a little while the first night but tell him that he needs to pay down (maybe stand by the crib and rub his back for a while). Reassure him that you'll be right outside the door but that you won't be back for a few minutes. By night 6 or 7 you'll be able to just say that you have to go tell daddy something or use the potty and by the time you go check on him he'll be asleep.

Good luck. I know this is a tough obstacle. This too shall pass! : )

If you're willing to let your son cry than try to Ferberize him. If you stick to it, it will work - and really well. If he learns how to quiet himself down he will also be able to do that in the middle of the night (or with just a little soothing from you).

HI J.,

I have twin girls who have been sleeping through the night since they were about 8 months old. Prior to that they were waking in the night, getting up at 5:30 am and not sleeping more than 20 minutes during the day. Nighttime bottles and putting them down at night was really hard. I saw Dr. Weisbluth speak at the 92nd St. YMCA in NYC after reading his book and I must say I was somewhat skeptical. I also thought he was extreme in some of what he said in his book, especially the part about letting your child 'cry it out' for up to an hour, even if they throw up. Luckily neither my twin girls nor I had to endure that. What he suggested in his book, and multiple times at his seminar, was to make sure you don't keep them up too late, for example to see daddy before they go to sleep. I was putting them down at 7:30 and they were overtired. He said I needed to try putting them to sleep an hour earlier. I was scared to death thinking they were going to get up even earlier. He said 'sleep begets sleep'. The first night they cried a little for about 30 minutes. The second night, 10 minutes. The third night, and every night since, they go to sleep immediately. AND they sleep 2 1/2 to 3 hours during their nap! I don't know what time you put your boy to bed but try to put him down earlier. It worked for me and my girls and anyone who meets them says what happy, easy toddlers I have. Best of luck!

R.

Hi,
I completely no what you are going threw. My son is 19 months and up until recently we have been rocking him to sleep also. What I do now is after his bottle we sit on the chair and watch cartoons for 15mins and that gives him time to winde down and then I put him in is crib. For the firt few nights he cried and cried ,I would go in there rub his head for a minute and walk out. Don't get me wrong I was going in there a couple times a night. But after about 2 days he started to wake up less and less. In about 5 days of this he is now going to sleep with no problems and sleeping the whole night. It is worth the 5 nights of not getting alot of sleep but now its better for us and my son. GOOD LUCK( don't worry it will work it just takes time)....

please don't take this the wrong way but i am totally against this approach. we have always preferred attachment parenting and you can learn more about it if you read the sears book. although we have taken hours and hours getting our kids to sleep in the end i think it has been worth it.

I have to ask - if this process is so stressful, then why even consider continueing? Going cold turkey for anything is shocking for most adults - why would you do it to a child? You can't train a child to sleep - its a natural occurance and some are better at it than others. Sounds like your little guy needs a more gentle approach. I think that if you were to do it in stages - rock for half the time for a week and then 15 minutes for a week he can slowly experience falling asleep on his own. The best advise I ever got was from our daughter's doctor who said, "throw away those ridiculous books and talk to other parents who have already gone through these processees."

J., don't give up now! You're getting close! I used Wiessbluth too, but much sooner (did cry-it-out for both my kids). I think with a 21 month old, it will take probably up to 2 weeks to get a good "through the night" sleep routine. Your son is VERY used to being soothed and it's going to take a while to break that habit, for you both! Here's what I would recommend as an approach:

Focus on bedtime going smoothly and having your son soothe himself to sleep, for a week. Keep going in at night but do not engage him at all: no lights, no talking, don't even look him in the eye. Just make sure he's OK, lay him back down in his crib, and leave.

After bedtime is going more smoothly, focus on the night wakings. You're going to have to stop going in, and let him cry when he wakes at night too. If you do this AFTER you've got bedtime going more smoothly, it should go much faster. Your son really needs to be sleeping through the night to get the best quality sleep, so he's probably at a point now where his body is craving sleep!

Your son is old enough for you to talk to him about this. As bedtime approaches (I'm sure you're doing a consistent bedtime routine), tell him that when you put him in his crib, you're going to leave and he has to go to sleep. Don't let him see any ambivalence or anxiety on your part! Stick with it, he will get there! And then you can have your nights back and get some good quality sleep yourself. You deserve it!

I'm a huge fan of Weisbluth's methods. I trained both of my boys this way, but did it way earlier than you - around 10 or 11 months. It took them each 4-5 nights before they went to sleep without crying, but after that it was really easy for them. I didn't rock them to sleep though (not after 5 months or so) so I imagine it will take you longer since your little one is used to a different approach. How about hte Ferber method of sitting next to the bed the first night and each night moving father and father away until you're out the door? I have friends who are more attachment parents who do this method and it really seems to work for them.

Hi J.,

I've been there. Did you breastfeed, and if so, for how long? I breastfed for one year, so my daughter was used to falling asleep on my breast. I would then transfer her to her crib. So, she never learned how to fall asleep on her own. The best thing was for my husband to stay with her in her room, (I am associated with the breast)he wouldn't speak to her or look at her, he would just sit in a chair next to her crib. Each night after that, he would move the chair further and further away, and then she learned to fall asleep on her own. I hope it helps. I know how stressful it could be on you and on your down time with your husband.

I haven't read Weisbluth, but I too recommend the Ferber method for sleep training. It worked for us after 3 tough nights of crying. Ferber is not a pediatrician, but a doctor who specializes in sleep at one of Boston's leading hospitals. Read his book "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" before you start.

Some moms on this site are adamantly against any type of cry it out approach, and they are entitled to their opinions like the rest of us. But you need to decide what's best for you and your family.

I do agree that at 21 months, your son is obviously going to be very cognizant because people tend to sleep train babies. That can actually be good because you can talk him through it and tell him he has to go to sleep, that you won't pick him up. Then follow through. To make up for this, make sure he gets plenty of love and attention during the day.

J.,

I know lots of parents let their kids cry it out, but this seems very cruel to me. Not only cruel, but ineffective. After all that crying, kids will sleep temporarily through the night, but they usually go back to waking up at some point. Unfortunately for us, this is normal. I recommend the book The No Cry Sleep Solution, by Elizabeth Pantley. Our culture is the only one that expects kids to sleep according to an adult schedule. Your child will not be doing this for much longer. In a few years when he doesn't want you to hug or kiss him, let alone rock him to sleep, you will look back and fondly remember being close to him. Enjoy this while you can. Time flies by too quickly.

Good luck,
R.

I can sympathise with you over this! We took in my nephew last year due to problems with his mother, and she had neglected him badly. He had no sense of schedule and zero sleep training (she let him stay up until he passed out from exaustion, then let him sleep late as he liked) so it was an awful few weeks getting him sleep trained.
Now, 21 months is a difficult age, since they are much more independant and less likely to go without a fight. I would recommend the following pre-coursers as things to aide a child in being sleepy:
- Make sure you give ZERO suger and/or sugery foods after 6pm (or none within 2-3 hours of bedtime) This includes juices, snacks, and fruit. Offer water or milk as drinks.
- An hour or more before bed, give him a bath and let him play in the tub until he's bored. Water play seems to really take it out of a kid.
- During the day, skimp on his naps. At 21 months he should likely be taking one 2-4 hour nap a day (or 2, 2-hour naps), any more then that and you're going to cut into his nighttime sleep. If he's sleeping 4 hours, cut it by a half hour and see if that helps the nighttime routine.
- Wear him out! Put him outside to play, take him to the park, run circles around your livingroom, dance till you fall down! The more time a child spends playing the better their mood, and the more tired they get! Late afternoon play effects nighttime sleep the most.

Now, as far as the cold turkey and dealing with crying, at his age you can let him cry a bit, but I still woulnd not let him cry more then 45 minutes without going and comforting him. If he cries 45 minutes, bring him back out to hang out with you for 10 minutes or so, maybe rock him for 10 minutes, then lay him back down. A child used to rocking will likely need alot of help since the motion is part of sleep for them. You doing it in stages, some crying some rocking, some cuddling, will help him feel secure in the transition.

It will probably take 2 to 3 weeks to fully acclimate him to the change. Bear in mind, what it takes a week to teach will take 2 weeks to change. Thankfully sleep is a bit easier to change, but it is still a lengthy process considering how crazy the change can drive us.

I am currently working on sleep with my second child (3 months) and my almost 3 year old literally puts herself to bed at night. Gets her pajamas, brings them to me, gets in bed, reads a book, gets up and turns out the light, back in bed cover herself up, fall asleep.
My nephew doesn't quite go that far, but he asks to go to bed and will go lie down himself if he's tired.

Be firm but supportive and I'm sure your little man will be sleeping like an angel soon enough!

Good luck!

I'm not a big believer in the cold turkey method, as children are creatures of habit, need routines and change is almost always difficult for them. I recommend the book "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantly and Dr. Sears. It is a gradual approach which worked really well for us, and took a couple of weeks. It is important to establish a routine, and it seems the routine your son is used to is being rocked for an hour. Going cold turkey for him is like completely taking away his routine. The routine my son was used to at around 20 months was read and sing with Dad and Dad would fall asleep in bed with Son. So our first step was actually to break Daddy of the habit of falling asleep! After that, it was leaving the room a little earlier and letting him know we were there but allowing him to self-soothe. Even doing it gradually was a little rough, but a good investment as our son will be 6 next month and goes to sleep without any difficulty at all, 7:30 every night. He gets up to go to the bathroom every night but he goes straight back to his own bed and falls asleep again.

I never tried any "method" in putting my kids to bed, but I'm willing to bet my kids go to bed easier then any you've ever seen. I tell them it's time for bed and (at 4 yrs and 16 mos) they march up the stairs, give kisses and go to bed. Each night we do the same routine. Depending on the night, it's bath (they don't get bathes every day), get in pj's, read a book and into bed. My daughter gets a bottle and rocked. But the one thing that helps my kids is music. I play soft music in their rooms to help them go to sleep. If they wake during the night, all I have to do is turn on the music and bam right back to sleep. I started sleep training them at 4 mos old. I would create a routine that sets the stage for sleep. Read a book and what ever. But always do the same thing. Then turn off the lights, turn on the music, and rock him like you always have. However, each night put him in the crib more and more awake. At first wait until he's almost asleep. Then more and more awake. Since you created this bed time "monster" it's going to take some time to undo. I still rock my daughter nightly. That is what she needs to whined down to fall asleep. But it's only about 5 mins and she is completely awake when she goes in her crib. Cold turkey never works. Set up a bed time routine, something you can stick to nightly. You may also want to introduce a lovely, something he can sleep with nightly.

hi J.; here's news you won't like. you may have missed the window for sleep training. but even if it's not too late your expectations are a little overly optimistic.

Try Dr. Jay Gordon's website instead. weisbluth doesn't work for everyone. and if you are trying the cry it out approach which i think is really NOT a safe idea, don't expect it to work in 3 days. it also might not work at all. it sounds to me like your gut is against this and i think you should listen to your instincts. Dr. Gordon (just google Dr. Jay Gordon family bed) has a much MUCH more humane sleep training method.

some babies won't be trained. you may have to just hang in there. you will survive. my son was 2 yrs 9 months before he slept through the night. my daughter is 21 months and gets up to nurse and get into our bed every single night. i haven't slept through the night in 3.5 years. we all adjust. eventually it will end.

lots of love
J.

I feel your pain, my daughter was a rough one as well and we did the cold turkey cry it out method. It took 2 weeks, I also stopped going into the room after a few days. Once they realize that you are not going to come in the room at all it does go away a lot quicker. I know it is hard cause all the "what if's" are going through your head but most likely he is fine and is just crying cause he wants you to come and get him.

Hang in there I promise if you stick to your guns you will evenutally have some peaceful night. With kids it all about consistency.....I am learning that the hard way : )

I would definitely not recommend doing it this way, especially how stressful the baby has been. Everyone is different. I have twin girls who were born premature and they are 14 months now, still get up at night and I still rock them to sleep. I have also tried this approach and my daughters seem extremely frightened and upset and have also pooped from the strain. I would definitely not recommend this. Children need to feel nurtured and even though I really wish that my daughters went to bed on their own, I wouldn't leave them crying for hours for them to go to sleep. Thanks. Jennie, EH

I keep a swing next to my bed for my toddler and I cover her with a blanket and warm bottle of milk. The swing has soothing music. Right before she doses off. I put her in her crib. I make sure the lights are off and TV. Sometimes it is a battle because she likes to put the light switch on and jump up and down. I keep telling her it is night,night time. Sometimes she goes straight to sleep. Other times it is not so easy. Good luck. Hope this helps.

I thought Dr. Weissbluth's approach made a lot of sense but in practice I found it a little harder to implement. There are some cries that were just wanting attention which I felt I could ignore and there were others that were about distress and warranted reassurance. I've had to work on learning the difference.

I agree with one mother's recommendation to first work on the going to bed routine and getting that under your belt. My daughter is only 12 months but I've been amazed how quickly (2-3 weeks not overnight), with diligence, you can change their patterns. As for the night wakings, when I've listened to my daughter's cries and determined it is one of distress, I've gone in and held her, sang to her, until she calmed and then laid her back down without nursing. Over time, she stopped waking once she realized she wasn't going to get what she wanted any time she woke.

I hope this helps. In the end you have to do what you feel comfortable with and it may not always be by the book. But eventually he will sleep.

Hi J.,

I understand what you are going through. We are exhausted too and our little guy Michael is 23 months old and has been waking up crying up twice a night since he hit 18 months(has been an erratic sleeper, but was sleeping through the night from 14-18 mo). Everytime we try and let him cry for an extended period of time, he vomits and then we have to clean him up and his bedding and he ends up back in bed with us anyway. I can suggest letting him cry while you are in the room, because this will make you feel better. We started doing that a couple of weeks ago and it did start to work. He was sleeping for longer stretches every night. But, then he got sick w/ a bad stomach bug so of course we didn't want to let him cry and get more sick! The cold turkey approach just doesn't work with our Michael but being there while he cried in his crib and reassuring him that it is ok, did start to work.

Good luck-I know it isn't easy..

From another VERY sleep deprived mom

C.

HI J., I am an old time mom from before the "sleep training"

Dear J.,

I am a believer in sleep training however I would not recommend cold turkey. Have you read up on the Ferber Method of sleep training? If done properly it really works. The process should only take three nights and by night four you should have a sleeping baby. What you do first and foremost is make sure you have a bedtime routine, you must be consistent with that so he will know the routine and when bed time is coming. What ever you choose for your routine (reading a story, etc) finish and put him in the crib just say night night and walk out. Every five minutes or so go in check on him if he is standing lay him down and say night night and leave. Continue checking on him and repeating the process until he falls asleep. If he wakes in the middle of the night do the same thing. Each night the crying should get less and less and by night four he should go right to sleep. The reason for going in and laying him back down is two fold, one,so he does not feel abandoned, and two you will show him you are there but not going to pick him up. You can rub his back for a few minutes tell him you love him but do not pick him up. Be prepared because every time you go in and lay him down and walk out he is going to get pissed off but he will eventually give up. Sleep training is difficult and you must be emotionally prepared to do it because the crying is hard to listen to but it does work. Good luck!!

21 months is really late to be transitioning from rocking to letting him cry it out...he's very aware at this point and unwilling to adjust. Going back into the room is just going to make him angry at this point. Cold turkey is really your only option - keep using a bedtime routine, then put him to bed and leave. A security "lovey" may help - we use the rose doll from www.blabla.com - it's soft and she can suck on arms, legs and tail.

You may need to do this for at least a few weeks at this point, maybe longer - I have no idea. But you will be glad you suffered through it. We did it with our daughter at 6 months.

Good luck!!

Up until 14 months I rocked my daughter to sleep at night and sometimes it would take an hour or more. It was exhausting! I tried cry it out for 1 night, I lasted 1 hour and was going in 5, 10, 15 minutes to reassure. For the next week she was attached to me at every moment, she was terrified I'd leave her. Some kids need a different approach. We have a music box that we play when I would rock her and I began rocking for 20 minutes and then putting her down, hugs & kisses and then goodnight. She cried for a few minutes the first few nights and then went right to sleep. Now we rock for 10 minutes with the music and then she goes into the crib no problem. Good Luck!

Cold Turkey is tough- especially for a child who is now almost two years old. Your son has established a behavior pattern over the course of two years which means it will take a while to "unlearn" the behavior. You can continue with this method as it is likely the fastest way to a good night's sleep, but keep in mind that it takes 2-3 weeks to establish a new behavior and to have it become "routine". Also keep in mind that it only takes one "cave in" to bring the behavior back. This means that you need to be strong in your resolve and let him cry it out.

I would also speak with your pediatrician about his sleep patterns. At this age your son should be able to sleep for an extended period of time without waking. Is he taking too many/ too long naps during the day? Does he go to bed too early? Start a sleep journal. Write down his naps, his food intake, liquid intake, etc. Note what time he goes to bed and each time he wakes up. You may start to see a pattern.

Good luck!

HI IM BELL I AM THE MOTHER OF A 17 MONTH OLD BOY NAME AYDIN AND HE SLEEPS THROUGH THE NIGHT. I READ SOME SUGGESTIONS IN THE PARENTS MAGAZINE THAT U SHOULD INCOPORATE SOME THING LIKE READING INTO THE SLEEP TIME. LIKE AFTER GIVING A BATH U SHOULD PICK A BOOK LIKE THE 5 MINUTE BOOK AND LAY HIM IN HIS BED AND READ THE BOOK TO HIM RIGHT AFTER A BATH WHEN HE IS TIRED, AND ALSO A GOOD MASSAGE WITH THE LOTION HELPS TIRE YOUR BABY OUT AND LIKE I SAID RIGHT AFTER THE BATH TAKE HIM TO BED AND READ HIM THE SAME STORY UNTIL IT BECOMES SOMETHING ROUTINE. TAKE AWAY ALL THE DISTRACTIONS THAT WOULD KEEP HIM UP. ITS QUIET TIME FOR HIM AND U JUST READ TO HIM THE STORY UNTIL HE IS TIRED SO ATLEAST U DONT HAVE TO CRADLE HIM TO SLEEP. IT CREATES INDEPENDANCE IN HIM AND I BELIEVE CONFIDENCE IN HIMSELF. I TRY TO PUT MY SON TO SLEEP ATLEAST AN HOUR OR TWO BEFORE i PLAN TO GO TO SLEEP SO I CAN GET SOME ME TIME. ITS VERY IMPORTANT THAT U GET YOU TIME. GOOD LUCK AND TRY TOP STAY ROUTINE WITH WHAT EVER YOU DO UR YOUR CHILDS LIKE THAT IDEA OF KNOWING WHATS GOING ON AND KNOWING HIS ROUTINE, AND BEING ABLE TO PREDICT. BUT ITS ALSO OK IF YOU MISS A DAY OR TWO JUST REMEMBER ALWAYS GET BACK TO ROUTINE.

You have to hang in there, J....
Our daughter who is 19 months, still will wake up once in the night...We let her CIO (finally) at 18 months...it just got to be 'enough is enough'...it took 16 nights...yes, 16...and she still isn't all the way trained yet...just last night I went in and reassured her that it was okay, but in a stern (NOT mean) voice, I simply said "Ava, you're a big girl...it's time for night-night...Lindsay is going night-night, Joey is going night-night and mommy and daddy are going night-night...you need to go night-night too"...I never took her out of the crib just kissed her forehead, gave her a little hug and that was it...she was quiet for the rest of the night.

They are completely capable of understanding what we mean at this age...

It's going to take extra long for you because of his age...Stick with it...

My advice...go in once after he has cried for at least 30 - 45 minutes, reassure him, then turn off the monitor...at least for us, continually going in like the Ferber method suggests does not work...it only makes it worse, because she expects us to keep coming back in. I'll doze for a while, then wake up and turn on the monitor, but by the time that hour or so had passed, she's sleeping again.
Best wishes to you!
J.