Seeking Moms with 17Yrs Olds That Are Not Willing to Go by Your Rules.

have you tried the school counseling center? I bet you can kick him out, I'd call the local police station and ask.

Have you tried taking everything away? I mean everything. Leave him with some clothes, a bed to sleep on and a pillow. No TV, No video games, no stereo, no iPOD, no cell phone, no friends nothing! When he would complain he had nothing to do I gave him the option of either doing chores or reading a book. I don't have a 17 year old but I went through this (defiance) with my 13 year old. Needless to say once everything was taken out of his room and he missed how good he had it, he straightened up. We haven't had any problems since.

Call Susie Walton at Indigo illage in Encinitas. ###-###-####. She teaches a class on teens. You will love her. Its so helpful and not rocket science!!!! It helps!

N.

Oh I so remember those years! Our middle son was unruly starting at the age of 15 and threw those exact same threats out to us.

When he was 17, my husband and I couldn't take it anymore so we decided to take a "united front".

We told our son that we understood he was "becoming a man" and that he wanted to be in charge of himself. We asked what he expected of himself and us and what felt his responsibilities were. Of course they were minimal having to do only with taking care of his own "wants" not his "needs". It came down to his desire for the "freedom" to make his own decisions and be treated like an adult.

We heard him out, which was hard because we both kept wanting to "correct" his attitude. Then we reminded him that with privileges come consequences - some good and some bad - even for adults. We also reminded him that respect must be earned and must go both ways.

Then we gave him what he asked for....so to speak. I'm sure at first he thought we were caving, but we made some changes as a family, which gave him his first sense of control over his life. We worded things as we would with an adult. Here is what we decided:

1 - Chores: He wanted to choose whether or not to do his chores and which chores he would do.

We said: They were no longer "chores" they were now his "contributions to the household". Since he did not have a job and his dad and I worked all day and came home tired, he was expected to contribute in other ways. (It was the same work, just a different name.) The amount of work he did was in was in direct correlation to the amount of privilege he had in the household.

CONSEQUENCE: If our son did not contribute to the household, then he would not be able to use the fun things included there. (I.E. He would not be allowed to watch the tv, use the phone, and so forth.)

When he tried to say that we couldn't do that, I reminded him that the law says parents must provide shelter. That means the child must have a safe place to go home to - it doesn't have to be pretty and there doesn't have to be a private bedroom, tv, music, etc - just a safe haven. I also told him that the law does NOT require parents to provide stereos, Ipods, cell phones, phone useage, cable tv and so forth.

2 - Curfew: He wanted to decide what time to come home from hanging out with his friends.

We said: It's no longer a "curfew"; it was now "the time that the doors would be locked". He could decide what time he was coming home as long as he gave us the respect of letting us know where he expected to be, if he would be later than expected, and when he thought he would be home.

CONSEQUENCE: If he was not home by midnight (or had not called to let us know he would be late), the door would be locked and he would have to sleep on the porch.

Some other things we reminded him of were:

1 - the law said we must provide food, shelter, and clothing; the law does NOT say what kind of food or where the clothes must be bought. I.E. He ate a lot of hamburger and veggies and was not allowed to eat the "goodies" in the house. Also, when he came to me for a new pair of shoes after this discussion, I took him to the local thrift store. No more $100 pairs of shoes for him.

2 - There is nothing in the law requiring parents to let kids get a driver's license or drive the family car car and nothing that requires us to give them cell phones, video games, and so forth. I.E. He wound up walking everywhere he went for awhile and had to give up his cell phone and computer useage.

Although this was a hard lesson for us to give him, he quickly began making his own decisions to help out and even got to the point of helping in areas that it had not been requested.

So many good things came out of this experience. Our son knew exactly where he stood with us and he knew that even when we were tough on him, we still love him. He learned how to accept the consequences for his own decisions and has become a confident, well-adjusted young man who takes care of his responsibilities. We all learned that he was no longer a little boy and that it was time for him to spread his wings.

I hope this helps - even though I know it's really long. Good luck and blessings to your family.

W.

D., you have a lot of advice on the Dr. Phil/tough love approach. But not much advice on a respectful love approach. What worked for us is similar to what Wendy L and others have mentioned -- shifting gears to start treating your teenager like a man. He is almost a legal adult -- time to let your little boy grow up. All humans want a sense of control, and it's especially important with teenagers. Not allowing them to be responsible for themselves is robbing them of opportunities to grow, and setting them up for failure. We must prepare our kids for the Real World, where they are making 100% of their decisions -- that day is fast approaching. Best to give them opportunities while still in our care, so they can make mistakes in small ways vs. huge ways.
When we hit a wall with our 15 yr old earlier this year (ran away, experimented with drugs, said she wanted to live somewhere else), our first response was anger and a desire to regain control in our household. After consulting some great resources (see below), we realized she was going through something within herself, and the power struggle was not going to be effective.
So we calmly explained that we are legally liable for her until she turns 18 unless she would like to be emancipated. In the state of California, YOU ONLY HAVE TO BE 14 TO APPLY FOR EMANCIPATION. Great details on this website. http://www.scselfservice.org/probate/minor/Emancipation.htm
We said if she would like to live on her own by the court's rules instead of ours, then she was welcome to hire a lawyer and we would honor her decision. She would simply need to show the judge she can financially support herself with an income from a legal source, and prove she is better off on her own.
She immediately said "But I don't want to financially support myself."
We answered with "Oh. I see. Then who will support you?"
We could slowly see the realization come across her face. "Well, you guys would. You have to... don't you?"
"We are required to provide a few basic needs like shelter, nutritious food, access to medical care and education while you are part of our household. Everything else is voluntary on our part. Why would we provide extras to someone who does not want to be with us or respect our family?" So important HOW you say it... quietly with sincerity, not with anger or sarcasm.
The bottom line is that she is welcome to go out on her own, but there are responsibilities with that -- working and following the court's rules. If she chooses to be with us, there are responsibilities with that -- contributing to the family and following our house rules.
We also explained we are legally responsible and that we have to protect ourselves if she engages in bad behavior. We learned from a therapist that if she leaves the house without our permission or refuses to come home when she is supposed to, we have to make a police report that she is not honoring house rules and is "out of control". This will help protect us if she happens to harm herself, harm others, or damage private or public property. Shows we are actively parenting her, and not neglecting. A few times of this, and the police will talk to her -- may even suggest she go to a group home if she plans to continue being destructive to our family environment (we have 2 small kids in our house and are mindful of how everything impacts them).
After all of this, she had a better understanding. This got us through the rocky patch... but I'm sure there is another rocky patch coming... there always is. :)

What keeps us going is the advice we've learned through 2 resources:
1) Parenting With Love and Logic - website has free weekly parenting tips, newsletters and podcasts. When I feel beaten down and weak, they recharge my resolve and refresh my loving spirit. http://www.loveandlogic.com/
2) Heartlight Ministries has a great video series that is easy to watch -- takes only a few hours. It's called "Dealing with Today's Teens". Very insightful and has given me great understanding. They also have a book "When Your Teen is Struggling". Not over the top Bible-thumping but they are a Christian-based organization... just FYI. http://www.heartlightministries.org/

Best of luck to you and your family. STAY STRONG AND CONSISTENT so your 14 year old knows he/she won't get away with the same BS. Share what you learn with your husband and arm him with the techniques learn -- he might be inactive because he doesn't know what to do.

Hi D.:
My own personal experience,coming from A family of seven siblings,was that When parents have more than one teen in the household,they have a tendancy to treat us all on the same intellectual level. It's what I regard as sort of a (Blanket approach)I understood their diplomatic approach. My parents never wanted any of us children to get the feeling one was favored over the other,or one would get something,while the others stood by and gawked.While I was sympathetic,and appreciative of their motives, It's my opinion,that they carried this over a little to far. My Eldest brother, resented being talked to ,treated like his younger siblings.He knew he was A young man,however Mom and Dad didn't take that into consideration in their dealing with him.He was the boy next door. He was always an excellent student,was a great athlete,and never got himself in any trouble.However,in instances where he neglected to do his chores,they treated him as though he were a child. I can remember him mouthing off to mom,or dad,and now that I look back,I imagine he probably felt as though he was fighting for his own individualism. It angered him to be compared to us younger siblings. He wanted to be treated as the eldest. It isn't He minded the responsibilities given him,it was the way in which he was approached.I guess mom and dad must have eventually figured it out. They began giving My brother certain privileges,that we didn't have.(This,we all agreed fair)He was our (big brother) after all.My bro told me, Instead of the constant yelling of (or else) across the house,they eventually sat down alone with him,and gave him a list of chores.My parents agreed,that he was an adult,and as adults,we all have consequences for our actions,or a lack of.They promised there would be no more threats or complaining.That as an adult,if he couldn't follow simple instructions or tasks, They simply and quite calmly,would take A privilege away. A day without the car,Maybe a day without the phone.Your sons disrespect and rudeness is not so much directed at you,as it sounds like this is his way of retaliating for possibly being treated like his brother.He's not going at it in a very mature way,but it's A desperate attempt to make others look upon him as A responsible young adult. "If your going to treat me like a kid" "I'll act like one" If I were you,I'd have a calm sit down.Tell him,that you'll start treating him more like an adult,if he'll promise to start acting like one.Your husband should be included in this conversation,at which time he should remind him,that not only are you his mother,but your also the woman your husband loves,and that he would never permit any man to treat her with disrespect,most certainly not her own son.I wish you, your husband,and your growing son the best. J. M

It will be hard, but I think you'll need some tough love for him. He may "hate" you for a while, but if you nip it in the bud now, he'll be a better MAN later. If he doesn't want to be part of the household, tell him he's not welcome to all of it's privilages. Give him a spot on the couch, along with a set of clothes (which he can wash or not wash) and some bread and peanut butter. A couple weeks of that should do it. it's important that your hubby sstep in with this to show your son how a real man acts. If he doesn't improve, tell him to get a plan ready for when he's 18 because you will give him the pink slip to his life the day after his birthday. Whether he's done with high school or not.

Hi D.,

I'm so sorry that you are going through this with your son. While you can't kick him out, you can show him that there is no such thing as a free ride. I was a very rebellious teen and my folks set me straight. They made a few changes to my living conditions that while uncomfortable, were not harmful. They took everything out of my bedroom and the door off the hinges. I had a mattress to sleep on and one small lamp. My dirty laundry stayed on the floor, if I wanted clean clothes it cost me $5 a load and another $2 for delivery to my room. Meals were the very basics. Lots of mac and cheese and bologna sandwiches. If I wanted something better I had to buy it. After about a week of this I got a job and started to appreciate all the work my mother did to take care of me. Gradually things started to come back into my daily life (like the bed and dresser, the tv in my room) . I'm sure you will get a ton of advice, this is a great site. Hang in there and good luck!!!!

"Parenting teens with Love and Logic".. The wholse 'LOVE and LOGIC" thing transformed my relationship with my kids! I've been using it for 10 yrs now, and always suggest it to anyone else having 'issues' with their kiddos whether they are toddlers or teens.
Check out their website, get their books/cds/dvds.. I promise you will see a HUGE difference in your child and will feel a heck of a lot better with the way you handle them. It allows your child to be responsible for their own decisions and helps dissapate LOTS of drama between parent and child... and can't we all use a little less drama when dealing with our children?
Best of luck!

*Bravo to Julia M. - love your advice on this.

Instead of trying to make him do things in the house... take away what YOU do FOR him. You don't HAVE to "serve" him, ya know.

Take away any privileges/activities he has... if he drives, take that away too.
Make him walk everywhere or catch a bus or ride a bike.

Tell him, from now on, he has to EARN his privileges... even laundry. If he wants laundry done, he has to pay you or earn it by "behavior." If he's hungry, he can buy his own snacks too, and his own clothes.

I know you said your Hubby works hard... BUT he NEEDS to know what is going on and sit down with your boys... and teach them how to be a man and respectable "child."

Tell him "I am your Mother... NOT your maid.... if you dare to be so arrogant and disrespectful... you can buy your own things in the house or what you want from me... and you will no longer have the care keys either.... nor am I your chauffer..."
If he gets angry tell him AGAIN " I am your Mother, not your maid... and you dare to be so arrogant and have no respect..." If he argues with you tell him AGAIN "I am your Mother, NOT your maid... if you want things you have to reciprocate... you are a GROWN child...I am NOT your Maid. IF you want me to do things for you, then pay me..."
And SINCE YOU REFUSE TO GET A JOB...
If you refuse to get a job... you cannot ask for privileges nor my being your "maid." I am your Mother. Until you learn that... you can continue to be in High School and be a "child" and be treated like one....

OR, make it a requirement that if he does not get a job....that he has to do volunteer work somewhere for a charity or something.... something productive and by doing so, he is proving his worth and maturity... AND EARNING his privileges at home, by "behavior."

Your boy... needs boundaries and direction... they need their Dad to stand up to them too... maybe they are missing that.
For you, you can try and sit down with him and have a heart to heart talk... candidly and without judgment. Then, see if you both can come to some sort of amicable communication and agreeable action on it.

ALSO, he will be graduating from High School... then what? has he or you/hubby talked with him about it? What are his plans? College? Working? He can't just stay home and vegetate. He has to be a PART of the family, not just a "taker."

He is at an age where he will soon graduate from High School... it is a rite of passage for any teen.. .and a time of flux. BUT, he can't treat you this way or make his own rules. He can either... grow up and mature, or stay the same as he is now and have "arrested development" and he will get stagnant. Tell him that.

Your son is old enough... to be dealt with as a GROWN child.

Good luck,
Susan

Having raised my brother from the time he was 15 (we were 21) I can tell you the most important thing is to act now! Once he is 18 you are out of options. You may not think he is using drugs but go to the drugstore and get a test kit. I just learned they have them (I am now a grandma) but would have done it in a heartbeat. You have a very small window. Unfortunately, taking things away doesn't always work if nothing seems to mean anything to them. I might suggest you put in writing what you need from him and what the consequences are if he doesn't participate, that way he cannot say "You didn't say that". It is also really important that your 14 year old sees that this will not be behavior that is accepted in the household. I don't know what state you live in but in many states 17 year olds can move out. The bigger question is can you be held responsible if he doesn't go to school? In the "olden days" kids just quit school and joined the military... not an option today. Good Luck

Hi D.~
I know this time for you is very painful and stressful.I agree with what Gee R. advised! If he doesn't want to show respect and help out, you may required to provide a roof over his head and food in the fridge, but let him see the other things you do provide. leave only the mattress and blanket. Do not prepare his meals or drive him. He has 2 legs and can walk. You can buy him a bus pass to be nice. If you have provided him a car, take it and leave it at a freinds house without the keys. Tough love is hard, but may cause him to wake up and see what real life is all about. Respect and harmony. I also agree that dad needs to back you up and not allow him to talk disrepectfully to you!
Good Luck and hang in there!! you are not alone!

I suspect that the advice given so far is good advice; however I raised two boys who were two years apart, by myself. Most teen boys get to that point where they think they are "man" enough to stand up to the dominant person in their lives. It looks like you are it D..
My advice is that if he is a "good" kid basically, the thing that will probably work best is to take away everything. The main thing being the bedroom door. You may have to provide the basics, food.... not necessarily things he likes, clothes ... perhaps from the Salvation Army store, roof over his head... not necessairly any privacy. Also, any electronics like cell phone, computer, TV, Wii, anything that entertains. You can ensure that what you watch on TV are things he has no interest it.
Give and take... respect him when he respects you.
Sad but true!
Good Luck!

Hi D.,

Seventeen is a tough age. However, you will not be able to change your son's behaviors with any sort of punishment or strategy geared at getting him to comply.

The real question is why is he defiant, rude and uncooperative. When children are uncooperative with us, it is because they have an unmet need. When all their needs are met, there is no reason for them to act out.

Your son needs you to work towards decoding his behavior and to validate what is going on for him. When he feels that you are understanding and accepting of whatever is going on in his mind, you will find that he will want to reciprocate. We need to be the people we want our children to be. If you want him to be understanding, compassionate, helpful and respectful, you need to start by modeling that for him.

If I can be of further assistance, feel free to contact me. www.GilaBrown.com
Good luck,
G.

After reading all the responses to this post, I feel compelled to continue. It seems that the general consensus is to punish until you get your way. This is the least effective way of handling the situation. I also hear a lot of pain and frustration on the part of the moms here. If these punishments were so effective, why is it such a struggle? THERE IS A BETTER WAY. Many of the consequences suggested are seriously disrespectful and, at times, humiliating towards kids. YOU DON'T TEACH CHILDREN TO BE RESPECTFUL BY DISRESPECTING THEM. We can do better and you can enjoy your kids- even your teenagers.

Dear D.,

It's not easy dealing with teens. This time is often more challenging than the toddler years in many ways.

You have received some great advice from all of the moms who have responded.

The only thing I can add is to suggest a very good, short and to the point book for dealing with this very subject.

It's called, "Back in Control: How to Get Your Children to Behave" by Gregory Bodenhamer.

It can be read very quickly and gives you the words to use so your children know you mean business. It also gives you advice on keeping your cool and keeping yourself from getting drawn back into endless arguments.

If it's not in your local bookstore, Amazon carries it.

Best of luck to you and your family.

J. F.

D.,
I know that children at this age are definitely difficult and think the world is owed to them. I have a 15 year old daughter. The things that we have done for our kids has been to their undoing I think at times. Kids in this generation feel that they are owed and don't have to work. I firmly believe in the Dr Phil method. The only thing that he gets from you is a bed, blanket, meals, minimal clothing (neccessities) and a roof over his head. He doesn't have to have a cell phone, tv, computer, video games, ipod, whatever. We are to provide the basic neccessities and they can find a way to work for the rest. No chores = no play time. Don't drive him places = find your own way. It's very basic, but I can tell you that it is really effective.
The other thing my husband and I did a couple of years ago when my daughter was getting a little too used to the comforts of her life, was we took a trip to downtown LA. My husband has to work in some of the worst parts and we took our children down there to experience the homeless. It was not just old men or women, it was children, young adults, teenagers. My daughter was shocked. We let her know that we could be in that situation at anytime and we could be homeless too. Not everything is guaranteed in life, jobs, living arrangements, anything, especially in this economy. Sounds like he needs to be humbled, everything you pay for is yours and you take it back. He gets a job to pay for the things he wants or has. It's your right as a parent to teach him responsibility. Hope this helps. I know it has worked for us. They do get humbled when they see all that you do for them.

I think that you can first try what Julia M. said (below) so to give your son an opportunity to right his wrongs and save his dignity. Because you son's behavior just might be the same reason(s)/siutation that Julia M. has shared in her examples about her own brother.

If that doesn't work then you can move forward with all the tough love that the others have suggested here. These advices are very good. I think you are well-equipped to work this out.

best of luck and keep us updated. :)

I don't know about your 17 year old, but my 17 year old has needs - a car, insurance, gas, a cell phone, money for school and church events or just hanging out. So, take it all away.
When my daughter was in jr hi, I got fed up with doling out the money for nothing in return. So I stopped. We calculated out how much money she needed for reasonable expenses, clothing allowances and entertainment per week. We gave her a list of responsibilities each week. If she held up her in end, she got her money. It worked like a charm!

Take everything out of his room except his matress. EVERYTHING! Especially electronics. Do it while he is at school. Do not wash his clothes, cook his dinner or drive him anywhere. If he has a car take his keys. And let him know You can easily put him in a group home! Ask your friends if any of them know of a police or probabtion officer who can come over and give him a good scare! Its too bad his father isn't teaching him how to be a man. He needs to sit down and tell him that You are his WIFE before you are his mother and he will not allow anymore disrespect. He needs a good dose of TOUGH LOVE. I would even remove the door from his room. It will be hard but you will all laugh about this in 5 years and then in 10 years he will be thankig you for making him grown up and get over himself! good luck and keep us posted on what happens!

Hi, D.,

I worked a high school teacher for approximately a decade, unoffically acted as a foster mother to my former fiance's 17-year-old brother, who had a variety of problems, and now study psychology in a graduate program. I don't have all the answers, but I can share my experience.

It sounds as though your son wants respect and independence. The question is how to give him those things without compromising yourself (giving up your self-respect and all time and energy for yourself). Some people I've known have created contracts with their kids. A contract might include statements such as, "I [the offspring] will wash my own clothes. If I prefer my mother to wash my clothes, then I will pay her ___ (whatever rate you think that someone who provides that service normally charges)," and "If I want to borrow my parents' car, I will ask at least 48 hours in advance, I will take care of the car while I am driving it and I will return home with a full tank. If I damage the car, I will pay for all damages. If I do not return home, with a full tank, I will pay my parents ___ (whatever the going rate for gas)."

If your son is completely unwilling to work out a viable arrangement for all involved, then you might consider child or family psychotherapy.

Good luck,
Lynne E

You need professional help fast. Go talk to the high school counselors. Tell them what is happening. They'll be able help you and to refer you.

I have a friend whose son went through this. They took literally everything out of his room but the bed and two sets of clothing. He had to earn everything back. Until he did he had to wash his own clothing, and had no privileges. Basically it was a wake up call that "legally" his parents have to shelter, clothe, and provide food for him and everything above and beyond that truly is a privilege. I know it sounds extreme, but it worked like a charm, and this boy is turning into such a nice man. Of course, I'm over simplifying. They had a lot of heart to heart talks with him as he was learning responsibility and earning his privileges back, too.

Sounds like you're having a great time!! Boys are the worst. I've been thru this with 2 step-sons and am currently dealing with it with another! He's right you can't kick him out. That doesn't mean you can't kick his stuff out. Take the bed out and if he has tv, computer, or games take those out too. If he is refusing to wash clothes then don't do it for him. If he isn't cleaning up after himslef in the kitchen stop buying the foods he likes. At that age it's really hard to get back in their heads. They come back around and boys do it sooner than girls. I personally hate snooping because it destroys trust but that doesn't mean you can't ask. Don't ask accusingly just say hey have you ever....gotten drunk, smoked pot, whatever you think he may be into. And don't rule out depression. Ask about that one too. good luck and know whatever happens your wonderful little boy will resurface soon.

thats true it wouldn't be wise to kick him out at that age,but if he is not doing well in school you need to find out if their is any programs or boot camps for him,set your rules in your house ,if he don't want to follow them then he is a big man who needs to do everything for himself,theirfore he cooks for himself and everything else that you normally would do for him if this doesn't bring him back around,don't give up,find a strong man who will not put up with crop like this and throw out his dirty stuff which he refuse to clean ,

Hi D.,

I once got this same advice from a truant officer. (Police officer who work in/with the schools to keep kids in school and on track.)

As you've heard: Take TV, CellPhone, Wii, Computer, skateboards, surfboards, away. The most impoprtant being the taking down of the door as you've already heard. His favorite clothes or all but a couple of changes. He even said taking away his bed is good. You are only obligated to put a roof over his head- not give him his own room or a bed. I even went a step further. When my daughters act up- they get their eating out privileges taken away. Actually they get put on a beans, rice, tortillas, and water diet-While the rest of the family has regular dinner.(This will be the only thing they will be able to afford on their own when they are older if they continue on this path.)

If you have insurance, counseling might be a good option also. Good luck to you.

He's trying to intimidate you. In most states and/o counties, complulsory school attendance is only required until age 15 or 16. After that, parents are technically not "required" to keep their kids in school. Being in school gives him no special rights/privileges.

It might be a good idea to ask a social worker to sit down with him and explain what the law says and what society will expect of him. You would be within your rights to ask the state to take temporary custody if you declare him "incorrigible." In general, it won't come to that, but it sounds as if he needs to know that the option exists. He needs to know that being a minor doesn't mean he can trample people. He also needs to know that once he's 18, you can request that he move out, and if he doesn't, you can file trespassing charges and ask the authorities to remove him. They will.

Tell him that you love him, but loving him DOES NOT mean that there are no consequences to his actions and choices.

Most of the time, simply hearing from another, non-family adult will be all it takes. Knowing that society in general expects the same things mom or dad does is often the wake up call needed.

Some kids have a deeply romanticized view of life, and sometimes that includes the idea that if they run away, "There will be no more rules." Some kids need to have the ideas of vagrancy, loitering and such explained to them, and the idea that being homeless means someone else decides when, where and what you eat, when and where you can sleep, even what restrooms you can use (thoss "customers only" signs are legally binding). Soon he'll be legally an adult - it's time for a wake up call.

Let little stuff (a hairstyle, for instance) slide, but the firm house rules (including manners) are non-negotiable. He can take it or leave it, and since he's a minor, leaving it will mean he leaves your house, for a group home or foster care. You are the parent; you set the rules. Society and the law backs YOU up on this.

Maybe a counselor would help - either one for him or one for you, or both.

Don't worry, Mom, this too will pass!

My husband and I have raised four children who are now adults. My husband was also not help with our sons. Your son is right that you can't "legally" kick him out. It has nothing to do with him being in school. As long as he is under 18 you are legally responsible for him. However, is there another relative who would be willing to take him for a while. He might need to see that the grass is not greener on the other side. We went through our oldest son using drugs and were not able to get a lot of support from outside of our family. I did hand him a card to a place which has foster families where he could go and be safe once. He was there for four days and was desperate to come home. He even told the counselor that his father and I would make wonderful foster parents. He didn't want to follow our rules, but knew that we were right. I also remember telling our oldest son that while I knew that he hated me then, I also knew that by the time he was 35 years old, he would understand why I had to be strict about some things.
If you could get someone to take him for a while, he might see you in a different way. You should be willing to pay for his housing. Also, if he is completely out of control, you can call the police. That would be a last result, but one you might keep in mind. Our sons both turned out to be wonderful people. Our daughters never went through this. Sometimes it just takes a little longer with some young people.
One more thing. If you can explain to your husband how much your children need him, it might help. It could be that your son is crying out for his father's attention.
Good luck with your precious family.
K. K.

Take everything away! Leave with a mattress and a blanket and a few changes of clothes. Everything else he EARNS back piece by piece by showing respect and listening to your rules. Do not give in. SHock him into reality by having his room cleared upon coming home from school. Sit him down immediately (with you and Dad there) and have a meeting about what is expected and lay out the rules clearly. If he is one to pout and lock in his room and not deal with it - remove the door as well. It's time for tough love and will be a valuable lesson for him to take through life.

As usual there is some good advice from some great parents on this posting. The suggestions for "tough love" may be appropriate for an adolescent who has begun to act out more than what you described in your request. Perhaps your son has begun to break the law, become abusive, stay out late, and use drugs. If you have made other attempts to get him back on track that have been unsuccessful, then serious consequences and expectations should be used.
If your son is being rude, not doing his chores, and not looking for a job, it may be best to consider his developmental stage. As a seventeen year old your son is in a tough stage in his life. He is at the age when he is "becoming a man" and at the same time he is not fully prepared to be a man. Your expectations to get a job, be respectful, and help out around the house are appropriate expectations for preparing him to be a man.
The difficulty is that as others mentioned, he needs some sense of autonomy to know he is making his own choices, and needs to feel "heard" by you. If he is not feeling this he is likely to be defiant and resist even things that he knows are for his own good.
If you have not done this yet I would encourage you to decide with your husband what your expectations are of him with a clear communication of how your expectations are preparing him to be an adult and function in your family. Then sit down with him and ask him as a growing young adult how he feels he might be able to meet these expectations. The goal here is to have the attitude of working together on this problem rather than being in power struggles that teens are so good at creating. If you are calm, open to his input, offer cooperation, and consider all possibilities, he will likely feel heard and be more open to creating real solutions. He may also need to be vulnerable to the scary reality of adulthood and communicate his concerns to you with some safety from criticism.
You can also agree upon time lines for when your expectations need to be met and appropriate consequences for not meeting them within agreed upon time lines. A few people offered good feedback on "privileges" that are earned as opposed to "rights". This is where consequences should be focused.
For more guidance on the parenting for common adolescent behaviors I really like the book Parents, Teen, and Boundaries: How to Draw the Line. It offers some really good discussion on the changes in relationship with an adolescent and ways to meet their developmental needs while setting appropriate boundaries. There is a great chapter on Communication that I often refer back to, to remind me of my limiting tendencies in communication as a parent and with my clients as a family therapist.
If your son is acting out more seriously I would encourage you to get support, and have a strong plan including how you will follow through with consequences and how you will be supported through the process.

I wish you the best. Your children are fortunate to have you, it is clear that you care and you are trying to raise good people.

http://www.williamyoungbloodmft.com/

It's been awhile...I've got 3 kids, all went to college, two are professionals.

15 years ago, I and all my friends were ready to farm our kids to our parents...but the truth is, a parent doesn't earn her/his parent badge until they've dealt with a teenager.

Now, you're going to get a lot of advise of tough love...and I know you're telling yourself that it's easy for these people to give advise, they've either been thru it or heard of someone who did. It's hard to be "mean" to your boy and to get out of that "everything for them" mode.

So here's something I think you should know...something I told a single mom who had spent most of her son's life being his best pal.

Want to know why your son is being defiant?

It's because YOU did something right. Children are SUPPOSED to want to spread their wings and challenging their parents means two things: they TRUST your love enough to know they CAN be an a$$ and still be loved and they are close enough to you to be who they feel they are right now.

Hopefully, this knowledge will give you the strength to do the tough love thing.

And yeah, you need to do it because your primary job is to make sure your kid can get along in this world WITHOUT you.

Hi D., First of all, what does your son do for money? If he gets any from you, cut that off immediately! No chores, no allowance! If he wants to go out with his friends somewhere, he has to pay for it. If he has keys to a car, he will need gas to get around. That costs money. If he won't get a job and won't do chores, then you are only obligated to feed him. Don't even buy his favorite foods anymore. If he is not contributing to the house, then you have to exercise your authority. This will bug your husband because it sounds like your husband is a bit lazy in dealing with the kids, but so what. YOU are still in control and must act this way to teach your son responsibility. I am sure that once he gets a taste of life without the cushions you have provided for him he will step up.

I remember when I wanted my mom to buy Paul Mitchell shampoo for me. She said "I'll buy you anything that comes from the supermarket, but if you want department store cosmetics or clothes, get a job and buy it for yourself." During the school year I used Pantene and during the summer I bought myself the "good" stuff. My brother was in a band and need the wagon to cart around his drum set. He had to get a job to put gas in the gas-guzzler to get to his gigs. Both of us are very responsible adults with no debt. My other brother was coddled until it was too late. He has been in debt since he was 19, never finished college and had the audacity to ask my parents for the money they would have spent on him for college since they spent some on bro #2 and me. Talk about a sense of entitlement! He has been sponging off my dad (Mostly without my mom knowing) for 25 years! When my mom found out she had a fit and took control of my parent's finances so my dad couldn't support him anymore. This is becoming crunch time for you and him. As Dr. Laura would say, "Grow a back bone, Woman!" MAKE him pay for the things he values now and he will learn the value of a dollar and hard work. Good luck!

D.,

I just want to thank you for your posting. I went to bed very upset last night after having a terrible dinner with my family (8year old, 15 year old, and husband). My 15 year old is becoming increasingly rude. He has such a terrible attitude about everything now. Your post and all the responses made me feel better. I am not alone in this teenager hell..lol. There should be more local support for parents of teenagers. My son is basically a good kid, he had all A's and 1 C on his report card. I just feel like he is turning into a stranger, and not a nice one either! I have tried the things posted in some of the replies. They do work, but the main key is to be consistent because the techniques work, but the behavior WILL resurface itself. They wear you down so much that we tend to fold after so many incidents. They break us down and then seize the moment when we are weak to keep hitting us with bad behavior. Here is what I did last time when his grades were bad and he was being rude: After one last warning and plenty of chances to get the grades up we took away all of his band t shirts that he wears daily to school, all electronics (cell phones, ipod, games, etc.), and we shaved his "emo" hair cut down to a #6 (we told him we would if he didn't shape up). We gave him plain white t shirts to wear and told him he would have to wash all his clothes on Sunday before the school week. We made a list of EVERY item we took away from him. We told him he could earn only 1 thing back per week if he was following a written contract we made up and had him sign. He was mortified about the clothing and haircut. He was so humiliated to go to school without his "cool" haircut and clothing. I think that was the biggest shock out of anything. He rebelled one night and ran out the front door. I thought he would run away so I went after him, put him in the car and took him to our local police station. The cop there told him that I was in my legal rights to physically punish or restrain him if necessary, place him in a group home, and take everything away from him. The cop also lectured him on being a man and having respect. He was scared and shocked that I took it that far. He looked at me and my husband with different eyes after the visit to the police station and taking all of his things away. I could tell he was more aware of his actions. It was a long process and I can't say that it went completely smooth, but it did work for awhile. He became more respectful, stayed on task, and brought up his grades. This did last for quite awhile and the grades are still good, but here we are again with the attitude. I guess the key I am finding out is to stand strong with your partner and let your kids know that they are NOT going to win. Show them that you are the rulers of your home and anytime they act out of line you will deal with it NOW and by doing exactly what you threaten him with. I plan on taking back my power again and trying the same things we did last time. I am going to draw up another contract today and warn him of what is to come if we have anymore issues. It's a long bumpy road. Some of the road is smooth and beautiful, some of the road is scary and rocky, but the journey must be taken, so buckle up and stay strong. Good luck. If you would like to share ideas or have a two woman support group, message me and I can give you my contact info.

T.

Good Morning,

Maybe your son is feeling that he is not supported by you and your husband. You may want to look into counseling to find out if he requires more from you like art, music classes etc. It may just be a self expression problem.

Be well.

N.

Tough love! YOU are the parent. For those of you with younger kids nip it in the bud early. This starts when they are younger you accept little things and think all kids do it but what matters is how we respond to it when we are still taller then them. Make what you say what you mean 100% in their mind all the time. Let them know what is expected and what will happen if it is not and make sure it happens. It doesn't mean if they loose x-box they can only play their DS (all games gone).They will think twice before they do that again. My kids are so shocked at how some of their friends talk to their parents but I tell them I don't allow it they do that is the only difference. It kills me to see parents say they wont let me give them medicine or she didn't let me dress her warm when it is freezing out or have to lie about the WII being broken when the kid is punished because he won't let me take it away from him. She didn't let me leave the store with out buying her something. I have said did you ask them nicely maybe they'll let you or What are you going to do when they are 16-17 when they don't let you at 2-6 they think it will be different but no it just gets worse. I really don't think kids just change unless they get into drugs or alcohol or the wrong crowd but if you have been consistent in parenting they will think twice before starting any bad activity knowing what the outcome or dangers will be in advance. Take control today, it is never to late. It will be tough but you need to be strong you can do it. I agree with taking everything away and going commando and using the Dr Phil site and telling him your home your rules you are the parent and if things get bad call the police and get help. You and your husband have to be in it 100% and be a team united. Best of luck to you and your son. You can do it for his sake. I always tell people you do the hard work when they are little or you will be doing it the rest of your life and that means doing what is right not easy when it comes to your kids.

D.,
Wow! Honestly, I think you need some professional help. For you on how to set boundries and for your son on how to be cooperative and respectful. You have to be clear. This is your house and your rules. And if he doesn't want to follow them, then there are consequences. Period. You have to be willing to do that, otherwise he will continue to walk all over you like he has. And pretty soon you will have your 14 year old acting like the same pain in the butt. I can imagine it's hard, but you have to be bigger than the challenge. You are the mom this is your house and you are in charge. Don't give him any money and cut off all his privileges. With all due respect, your husband sounds like he's doing very little to intervene. Dad has to set limits with this nonsense.

Are you sure he's not drinking or using drugs? Often this sort of change is a sympton of that. Before you say nom, take a moment and think. Has he changed friends, are his eyes red all the time etc. If you've thoroughly explored that idea I'd run, not walk, to a good therapist, not only for him, but for you. Is there an adult in his life that he confides in? An Uncle, eta? If so, try talking to them about his behavior

You might remind that privliges are earned, not given.Car keys? Gone. TV? Gone. video games? Gone. Cell phone, computer . . . . . I think you see where I'm going with this.

I would check out Dr Phil's website........he talks about "commando parenting", where the child has to earn everything through good behavior.

Hi D.,
I am a mother of seven boys and two adopted children (girls). They are now 35yrs (oldest), 30yrs, 24yrs, and 20 yrs and are all in the military. The last ones at home are 15yrs, 14 yrs, and 12 years old. Our 20yr old was exactly the same way. He thought he could run me and my house rules to the ground. I don't know where in his life set him off to that stage. He was the only one out of our children that couldn't be without his friends, sneaks out of the house while we're in bed, sneaks back in at almost time for us to get up and wake up the others to get ready for school, I caught him when I thought I heard the door or sounds in the house that I got up to check on our children's bedrooms, and he was missing from his room. Sat in the living room waiting on him, and caught him trying to sneak in the house. After a whooping (oh yes that didn't stop me even at age 17 and 1/2), grabbed his school bag and pointed to the road, telling him to find his way to success, reminded him who pays the bill, buys food to feed him so he can grow, provide shelter over his head, etc., and shut the door on him. He was still in school. Unfortunately his rebellious friends may have put so much motivation on him that he tried it on the Dad and I never knew about what was going on until that one particular night. I stepped in. Found out he has been treating and controlling the Dad thinking he runs the house, I work long hours and go to school at night, our younger children started getting influenced by him. He threatened to call the police on me, I told him to go ahead but he is not welcome in my house. He then threatened to terrorize my house, I stepped right up on his face and loudly gave it to him to "try me now!" I raised my children and taught house rules, at 6:30pm, everyone better be in the house, eat dinner, check everyone's homework, bed at no later than 9:00pm. The house rules has been since our oldest ones left and now carrying on to their children. It may have started when I started going to school. School called, I told the school I was not responsible. Cops were contacted, and because he was at the age of 17, that means there was nothing they could do. Realized that his own friends parents didn't welcome him in their homes and realized that he had no living luxury of a better place to live, he came back. Took him in under one condition, no friends, no cell, no bed, no TV, no games, and he is to pass room inspection that has always been part of the house rules, chores to do,no outdoors, and he calls me every half hour from the house phone that he is at home, I come home a couple of times a day at different hours to check on him just so if I can catch him outside, it worked for me. He is now made it to the Air Force. He tried to contact his older siblings to live with them and got back fired after I gave my older children specific orders not to let him in. I wanted him to see for himself who is in control. His friends were not there for him when he needed them. After he was home and they started coming around, I greeted them with a baseball bat at the door warning them to stay away form him. Changed his school, and he moved on from there...
One of you will have to pull through. What worked for me may not work for you. But there is a way to go about it so you can claim your house hold back. Step up to him and let him know who pays the bill, provide food in the house, bed for him to sleep on where a lot of homeless children out there dream to have a life your son has, and let him know that there is a place for children his age that you will have no problem to put him in while he is still going to school. Unfortunately, he has already took control of you. He sees your weakness already and continue to beat you with that. He knows he scares you because you are giving in to his demands. Who is incharge of the house? You are the parent and you are the one who should stand strong and lay your rules down, if not, there's the road...good luck

not all teens need a job during the summer. but not doing chores is another matter. have you restricted hi from doing what he wants if he dosent follow thru. also restricked allowance etc for not abaying rules. good luck. he is trying to see how far he can push ou. you might decus this problem with even if hes not there beside you i have raised 4 children and have 7 grandchildren . they all went to chollage and now have fine jobs . A. no. hills

You may want to send him to an intervention program. He is not correct about kicking him out of ypur home. You have basic rights as parents and I would suggest getting him in shape before he affects your other children. At this point, I am guessing taking "stuff" away and/or grounding him will not work. You & your husband need to be a united force and your husband must help with the up-bring of this child.
There's a boot camp at Barbers Point, I am not sure what it's called but, i do know that it works and maybe your sone needs that "Tough Love". Let me know how things go but, do not delay, or you will have a household that's very sad!

D.,

I have read most of the reponses and I agree with some of them. I have a 16 yr old son, he does his chores and is very respectful, his grades are not the best but he is going to hs. I would let him know that while living under your roof, he must do chores, be respectful to you and those in the house. If he cant' do those small things, take things away, take the door off the hinges to his room, let him know YOU are in charge, not him. Sometimes we have to have tough love with our kids, eventually he will get it, you and your husband need to be CONSISTENT, if anything, with whatever you do with him.

Best of luck,
M.

I agree with Janis M. You need to crack down on this while you still have a chance and stick to it. He is going to be 18 in a year and then what? I have seen it happen to many time where a parent just ignores it to get through it and that is wrong. You have a child for life and you need to guide him who cares if he is mad now he will love you forever. Make sure you tell him the reason that you are taking away these things is because you love him. He needs to earn everything he gets. For example if he bought the TV keep in mind that he is not paying for the Cable or the electricity to run it. Plus it is a privilege for you to allow him to have that TV you have all the power you need as long as he is under your roof!