Mean Kids and Parents Do Nothing

what if that kid was autistic and just couldln't help it?

edited: I do happen to believe that if a child has some sort of disability their parent needs to be watching them all the more closely in a situation like this. But it seems like i have heard autism used as an excuse for a lot lately in my personal life. so it was somethign that was on my mind.

In my opinion, a 2 year old child shouldn't be more than a few feet from you in a mall play ground...for that reason among others. If you were right there, you would have been able to hear exactly what was happening and immediately able to nip it in the bud.

I had this happen in a playland once too. I told the other child not to push my son anymore, the other parents just watched, I didn't care :D If I saw my son push someone I would get him and have him apologize to the child he pushed, just my thing I guess. I try not to be a helicopter mama and just let the kids work most things out but when I see something that crosses the line either that my son has done or that someone has done to him I don't mind correcting all parties. If someone else told my son to stop pushing I certainly wouldn't mind. Now there have been times when my there has been a younger child crying because my son gave him a shove and he says the littler kid started it. This happened once and I corrected my son only to be told by all the other kids around that the younger child was constantly hitting my son and he finally shoved him off. So it is hard to know exactly how things go down a lot and as you children get a little bigger it is a hard call how to handle it bc you don't want them to think you never believe them. So my policy is to ask my son if he forgives the other child and have him apologize.

Ok- first, I don't buy the whole 'the kid couldn't help it' because of different disorders. If this is the case, and the child could possibly be a threat to HURTING little kids, then please, keep them home. Why put other kids in danger? My own daughter is having some trials, and will be tested for Asperger's. Does that mean she cannot be TAUGHT to control herself? Heck no! This would be a perfect opportunity to teach the child this is not acceptable, so that something worse does not happen next time. I think too many times we as a society make excuses for these kids, when instead, they need to be taught.

That being said, I am extremely comfortable talking to others' kids if the parents will not do anything. I've been working around kids since I was a kid myself. My mother directed a daycare. I've been around disabled children, autistic children (some who were very violent), shy kids, ADHD kids, etc. They can ALL be taught. If the parents are lazy and letting the kids bully the playground, you bet I say something!

When my oldest was about 18mo we were at a mall play area (like you describe) and something similar happened. An older kid was being pretty rough around ALL the little ones.

and (1) there's an age limit on those small playscapes. and it clearly said no one over the age of 4. maybe he was just tall for his age, dunno. and (2) his mom wasn't watching him too well but she was sitting next to us, chatting with another woman. while (3) her son climbed on TOP of the playscapes standing up and jumping down to the ground almost stomping on little crawlers below; nearly hit our daughter a couple times.

we warned him twice to watch for the small kids.
his mom heard us warn him, did nothing.

then our daughter began crawling in a tunnel.
so he decided it'd be fun to crawl the opposite direction and push her out. the 1st time my husband got up & told the boy to find somewhere else to go bc she is too little to play that rough. the boy did it again so my husband approached the mom (who was watching this all go down!!! and doing nothing!!) and said "are you going to get your son off my baby, or would you like me to, and by the way I'm mad" and she just SAT THERE with her coffee and said "Alex, get off her" (lol!!! what?)

at that point our daughter screamed so my husband pulled the kid by his pant ankles and pulled him out of the tunnel and said "you're done"

then he notified security and they were kicked out.

I DON'T GET SOME PARENTS!

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Yes, you DO say something to other kids (it takes a village) and if the parent has a problem, so what? It's their job to correct them or supervise and if they are not doing it, then SOMEONE HAS TO.... like, say, an adult?

I will say something to the child if the other parent doesn't. I won't be mean to the child, but I will be firm/strident because it is my job to protect my son, and my job to teach him right from wrong.

I will also correct my son if he's being too physical. He's not even 4 yet and he's 45lbs, and 45inches tall, so when he's having fun and gets excited he can bowl over kids that are his age and younger/smailer. I want him to be aware of himself and his size - to be confident, but not a bully just cause he's big.

Per the "what if the child's autistic" question - that doesn't change the answer. The autistic child is not stupid - they can learn and should be treated as an equal. If they are social enough to be at a play area, they are in a place where they are learning how to behave in society. Their parents NEED TO TEACH THEM how to behave in society. It is the parents that need to take responsibility and if they don't, we have to, in a respectful way, model the behaviour they and the child need.

I was a professional nanny for twenty years and I have seen my fair share of children who are unsupervised by parent or nanny. It is so frustrating to the nannies or parents who are right there with their children. After many years for getting so frustrated and angry at the parents, I turned to feeling sorry for the child, I mean isn't that how most children would act if nobody ever told them not to do something. So when a child picked up my younger charges or son, I would look at the kid and say "that is unacceptable and if you can not play/share nice, please do not play with us." I had other mom's clap at my response and laugh when the child went away, I also had other mom's come up to me and say I was being very rude. I didn't care because my goal when out it to make sure my charges or son had a good time and was not bullied. Some people don't care and it is sad and I think it is always hard to decide whether or not to say something to the child or parent. I guess you need to determine if one, the situation calls for it, or two, do you feel safe to walk up to another parent and say something, I know it isn't fair when one parent is playing nicely and another parent is not. I just keep my eye on the ones that push the envelope and make sure they know I am watching them, usually they back off. Remember it takes a village to raise a child

In a public place, whether the other parent is around or not - IF THAT PARENT IS NOT PARENTING and it puts our children or any other in harms way, I think it is our responsiblity to step up. If they aren't learning how to act from their parents, somebody's gotta teach them. Just my opinion. . . .

I'm the mean mom at the restaurant play area yelling at all the big kids as they plow down the little ones. I'm not going to stand by and wait for an accident. On that note, I also don't hesitate to fuss at my own if they aren't acting the way they should. And if I turned my back and my kid was acting right I would be fine with another parent saying something to them.

You absolutely should say something to the kid. I never hesitate to yell at a kid who is pushing/hurting or teasing my children or other kids. One time at the playground a kid was playing keep away with my son's shoe. I yelled so bad at this child they probably heard me in the next county but who cares. If his parents weren't willing to jump in to correct wrong behavior than I will. I will usually do this even if it doesn't involve my kids too. Other parents are afraid to defend their kids unfortunately. In your case it would have been a loud "Hey-we do NOT push other kids!!" Loud and firm. And mean. And if their parent wants to confront me about it I say "Bring it on!"

When my kids were 2 I was pretty much right by their side if they were playing where older kids were also playing, that will eliminate the problem. 2 yr olds and 5 yr olds cant be left alone with each other except for at home and are siblings that get along with each other well. Until your own child can talk well enough to tell you "what happened" you need to be right there with them. jmo

Wow, this happens to us all the time. My 3 year old just got a black eye from an older kid at the mall play place last week! Most people would disagree, but we teach him that if someone hits him -on purpose- that he is allowed to stand up for himself. I think it keeps the other parents accountable. If they think their child can be a bully and no one will ever fight back, they will just sit there and watch it happen. But if their child starts something and the other kid smacks them back, see how fast they run over! My son knows that if a very little kid hits him, it was probably an accident, and he will just walk away. But several times a child his size or bigger will push or hit him, and he'll look for me before he reacts, I think to make sure he's not going to get in trouble for defending himself! Usually once he shows he's not going to run away or just take it, the other kid will stop trying to bully him and they will play nicely. Also I think it's smart to let kids figure out these social issues on their own (to an extent) since we won't always be right there to do it for them.

Now, I know my son can aggravate other kids verbally, but if I see him take a toy or jump in front of someone in line, I will stop him. Once he shoved himself ahead of a smaller boy in line for the slide, and the boy grabbed his arm and bit him! I pulled my son away before he could react, and explained to him that that boy got mad because it was his turn. I told him to imagine how he'd feel if someone took his turn, and he looked really upset, so I think he got it. So it depends a lot on each individual situation, but personally I don't want my kids to run away from a fight.

For the record, it's not just a boy thing, I'm going to raise my daughter the same way when she's bigger. When I was little, there was a little boy who kept poking all the girls in the stomach and made us cry. When I told my parents, they taught me how to punch a pillow. The next day that boy came up to me and I threatened to punch him if he poked me, and he never bothered me again!

Why does having autism excuse the behavior? Are kids with autism allowed to hit and push simply because they have autism? When they are grown and in the real world, will they still be allowed to hit and push people?
I agree with Patricia G. It's the resposibility of the parent to teach children to be a part of society.

I think you are well within your rights to say something to the child if there is a possibility that someone could get hurt.

You just say, no hitting, plain and simple. They are still kids, sure they should know better, but they are kids. You don't have to be mean, it's not your job to discipline them but you shouldn't be bullied by anyone either.

You have to let it go. You said yourself that you don't really know if your son did anything. Hopefully when your son gets older he'll always be nice to younger kids, but there's no promise that will happen. You will also want to give your son the benefit of the doubt when he says that something that happens in a public place is not his fault. Also, that boy may have looked to be 5 or 6 but he might have been much younger an not "known better." My son is 3 but he's very tall, thin and he talks a lot. Lots of people assume that he's at least 4.5.

If this was an incident that happened in your house, with friends, you might be able to nicely suggest to the older child that he's bigger than your little guy and he needs to watch out. But in a mall playspace you can just tell your child that he needs to be careful for the bigger kids. That's not a bad lesson to learn either.

Glad that your son is okay.

Absolutely! I have been in many situations where there were bigger kids that got a little rambunctious and I had no problem saying something. I did it in a nice way and still got dirty looks from their parents but I will not let someone bully my kids. I would say try to explain that it's not okay for a big kid to push anyone and then talk with your child as well. Two year olds don't always understand but a kid that age should know better than to push. You are doing a great job and the fact that you are concerned about it says a lot! Some parents just think the kids should figure it out. Sometimes that is true but sometimes you have to step in.
Hope this helps and keep up the great work!
T.

I did teach my kids that things will happen. I also taught them do not let anyone hit or bully you. With that said when they were younger I did step in and say something to the other kids or parent. I have no problem speaking up for my kids. If you do not stick up for your children who will? You will go home questioning yourself. YES you should speak up to the other child or parent.

I was at the children's museum with my husband and our two kids (8 and 2) Our two year old went to go look at the same toy a boy of about 6 was looking at, he turned around and punched my baby in her arm. I was shocked, and we looked to the parents for him to be scolded, instead the dad gave us a look like "yeah, thats right!" a look that screamed tolerance to this kind of violence. I was floored! I grabbed my daughter and later explained that "some boys hit". Which is true. Sometimes bullies/abusers dont become so on their own. They are bred from that exact stock, and nurtured into one.

Yes, sadly that does happen frequently I think. If it happens to my kid then I usually just have my kid ignore it and move on. I try and teach that sometimes things happen, etc. Plus, with this age kid it's really hard to tell what is "on purpose" and not. Sometimes kids get bumped into on accident and another kid retalliates, it's hard but it's life, and it happens a lot with that 5-7 crowd. If someone bumps into me or runs into my cart in the grocery store, do I get to ram them back?? I don't think so!

Now, if it happens frequently or I feel that one child is sort of targeting my kid then I will say something to that child. I haven't ever addressed a parent, but I suppose I would if I felt it was warranted.

I think the dynamic of those play areas is sometimes difficult. I too get frustrated with parents who allow their 'big' kids into those toddler play areas but it happens all the time. I even have to admit that sometimes my kid is the one that hits for no reason. I usually apologize to the kid and if the parent is watching say a little 'sorry' to them too. It happens and no one wants it to happen to their kid but as a community of adults and parents I think we have to realize that these behaviors are normal and just deal with it. Advocating more violence certainly isn't an answer and in the long run doesn't help teach coping skills.

When toddlers play in play areas/playgrounds, etc - you need to be right in there with them. Older kids can be pushy (or brats) and the younger kids don't have the language skills or they can start throwing mulch/sand, etc, and they don't know how to play nice with other kids yet (that comes between 4 and 5). If you are right there with your child, other kids will be intimidated by your size, and you can speak up right away because you've seen what is going on and who started it.
When my son was the young one, I've told older kids to be careful of the little kids (and I've told my son the same thing when he was the bigger kid). On more than one occasion I've had to ask another kid "Where's your mother?" when the other kids were not behaving well even after a warning.
There's no such thing as hovering when your child is a toddler.

I agree with most of the responses that you should be near your 2 year old and intervene, before anything like that happens. (You can see it coming usually...) And many times I have talked to children about their behavior when no parent was around to do the disciplining. However, I disagree that yelling or getting all in their face is the appropriate way to do that. Then you also are bullying, aren't you? I get down on the level of the child I explain to them that it isn't nice to hit, bite, etc. and that we won't keep playing with them if they continue that behavior. I try to educate them a bit about empathy-"How would you feel if somebody bit you? It hurts doesn't it?" There is an opportunity there, to help a child who obviously isn't getting that at home, or to remind him of something he has learned. 5 years old isn't exactly grown up is it?

This reminds me of the summer at the pool with my friend and her two little children. A 6/7 year old boy was standing on one of those things that squirts water up in the air and was making it spray all over us. She had a baby on her lap and her son who was afraid to go in the water because it was cold at first. We asked the kid to stop spraying us and our things and he kept going and going. The kids were freaking out because it was so cold and it was the only seat available. We kept asking him to stop and then some man got up and hollered at us. We weren't calling the kid names or pushing him or anything we were just asking him to stop long enough so we could grab our stuff and leave after paying $20 to get in there! It was very disappointing because we tried to go to the smaller pool first and it was closed for a swim meet. We didn't know until we got all of our gear all the way up to the gate. The kids parents were nowhere to be found either.

I always politely say something to the child, and then to the parent if the child doesn't stop. I refuse to leave somewhere my daughter wants to play because shes being bothered by another child. That to me is how bullying starts!

B.-

I guess I am a 'mean mama'! lol

In situations like that...I had been known (in my sweetest LOUD enough for 'other parent to hear' voice) remind MY child about 'playing nicely' and being careful around other kids...

Usually the 'other' child would listen...and take note. Often the parent (or very often a nanny) would then be aware and a bit more 'attentive'.

Hope this helps
michele/cat

I just saw a great article about conflict resolution for kids: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/B.-Bailey-No-Name-Calling.... One of my favorite techniques was near the end of the article, under the "Aggression" section. It's a wonderful technique to use in this situation because basically you're working with your own child, not the other one. You say "Jimmy, are you OK?, this boy just pushed you, did you like that?" We assume Jimmy says no. Then you say "Jimmy, please tell this boy that you don't like to be pushed and that you want him to treat you kindly". Good luck!

I would say that in ninety percent of these situations talking to mom gets you nowhere. Now if you talked to me and it was my son I would have made sure he didn't do it again. Or if you talk to someone about something that some other child did, unless it was seen, (and you saw it but oftentimes others claim they didn't) your best bet is to simply either hover, or keep your child away from situations. Mama bears often don't want to think their little cubs are doing anything wrong. And other mamabears are protecting their babies. Same for people. I myself hovered a lot after I had enough conversations that took me in circles. Why should your son be deprived of a trip to the park? Perhaps get ready with a towel and sit on the floor beside him while he plays. The other little bears will get the drift.

My 3 1/2 year old son was just in a situation at a Jump Zone where a 5 or 6 year old blind sided him (basically plowed him over and kept on going). My son was knocked unconscious, stopped breathing for 20 seconds and when he came too, he threw up. We had an ambulance called and took him to the ER. Thank God, the CAT scan came out normal and he was diagnosed with a mild concussion. When I look back, a bunch of the older kids were running like crazy, not looking where they were going and in the area for kids 5 and under. The parents all sat on chairs and watched. Kids need to be taught not to run in these small areas and to watch where they are going and to APOLOGIZE when they knock your kid unconscious. Unfortunately, it is up to the parents to educate their children constantly, and if they don't teach their children then bad accidents can and will happen.