How Does Your Husband Treat You (Branching off Cheryl's Question)

I've talked to you before about this. You KNOW my opinion, S.. : )

Been there, done that, divorced him, and now I have a loving husband and a happy family [including my daughter I had with my ex].

ETA- I've told you MY story.... My divorce went smoothly and swiftly even though my ex is a jackass and treated me like poo. And like Jo W said... He'll go to counseling when he is sitting in an empty house.

S.,
I could not live with a man who has such blatant disrespect for me. Telling me to F off? F THAT!!! The only thing that I can think of, especially since he refuses marriage counseling, is making good on your threats to leave. But be prepared for the fact that he may not fight it and it may indeed end. So if you're going to say it, follow through. Honestly, I couldn't live my life with such rancor and hate directed at me. Is this how you want to continue? At some point you need to be an example to your children and show them that you will not put up with being treated in such a manner. Or someone will come along in their adult lives and they'll allow it, as well. I'm so sorry, very best of luck to you. That's just got to beat you down emotionally.

Added: just read your SWH ... honestly, your husband sounds like a surly A-hole. Has he always been this way?? Make no bones about it, like Jo said, if he's treating you this way -- and others! -- your kids are next (if he's not doing it now). And "warning" you to not take "his kids??" Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's possible that he could really become unhinged when you leave. So tread very carefully and document everything because you'll need it in the future.

Hi S.,
I had a serious boyfriend who treated me the same way. He called me names and would make "jokes" that were hurtful. (Like calling me "fatty".) No matter what I said, he never stopped either. I specifically remember the way I would explain to him as clearly as I could - You may not MEAN your jokes to be hurtful but they HURT ME. I thought if I could just find the right words to explain, he would stop. Instead, he laughed at me and told me it was stupid of me to be hurt and I was just overly sensitive.
I eventually dumped him. I remember sitting on my front porch two weeks after he'd moved out. I was honestly shocked by how good I felt.
I am not telling you what to do one way or the other. But I wanted to share my experience with you. It's not you - it's him. He may never change. He may NEVER "get it" - no matter what you say or do.
I am sorry he treats you like this and I wish you the best.

I've been there and it's terrible to stay and terrible to think about leaving. Only you can decide how much you will put up with and when it's no longer worth it. It's not shocking that your husband refuses to go to marriage counseling. Why should he? The relationship is working for him. He yells and you are unhappy but still there. So do seek counseling but do it for you, to find out why you are stuck in your situation.

Here are some resources for you:

"The Verbally Abusive Relationship - How to Recognize it and How to Respond" by Patricia Evans

"Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft.

The Patricia Evans book will give you ways to respond to your husband to give him the opportunity to change. It will also help you to know if he is willing to change. The Lundy Bancroft book is more in depth but valuable because the author works with abusive men and can give you insight into your husband's reasons and motives for treating you badly.

I'd also suggest talking to someone at the Domestic Violence Center. Even if your husband doesn't hit you now, abusive relationships often escalate and it's important to know how to stay safe. Especially if you are thinking of leaving.

Please send me a PM if you have any questions. I've walked that road and am now in a much better place. Blessings.

I think you already know the answer to this one. If you really have tried everything you can think of to change his behavior to no avail, then you have to decide if you can live with it or not. Only you can make that call.

Considering that this is the relationship that is being modeled for your kid(s) (not sure how many you have) as what a marriage looks like, I would think pretty hard about being ready to back up that threat the next time you make it. I love my husband, but I would probably leave if I were in your situation. Your kids deserve better than to see/hear their mother disrespected and demeaned, and you deserve not to be treated that way by anyone.

I relate. What have I found helpful:

- Nonviolent communication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

- Identification of abusive behavior/patterns http://cmhc.utexas.edu/pdf/PowerControlwheel.pdf

"Why Does He Do That?" http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/042...

http://www.thehotline.org/

- Setting fluid boundaries and *following through immediately* (are you willing to 1. lower your voice 2. stop cussing 3. stop using sarcasm? If you are not, I will leave this conversation)

- removing the blame. I am not a failure if I'm not able to *change someone else*. We get to change ourselves. We do not get to change other people. I can choose to take care of myself. I can choose to place boundaries to protect myself. I can (to a certain extent) choose my environment and relationships. I can choose to put energy into certain relationships (or not). I can choose to change. I cannot choose to make someone else change.

- realistic expectations: If I pound a brick wall with my bare fists, I'm not going to succeed in pushing it over. If I stroke and kiss a rattle snake, no matter how gently, I'm going to get bit. If I use a rock instead of a sponge, no matter how hard I scrub, my bathroom will not get clean.
_________________________
S.,

Here's what I'm hearing: You are setting boundaries. Your husband repeatedly and consistently crosses your boundaries. If you advocate for yourself and create safe distance/detach, he punishes you. He belittles you for *having needs* and for *setting boundaries*. He threatens you into staying in a relationship with you and promises to make your life harder if you leave to *take care of yourself and feel safe*.

Meanwhile, you feel like a failure for not being able to do the impossible: force someone else to change. It's as though it's his behavior is your responsibility. It's not. He is CHOOSING to hurt you / cross your boundaries / threaten you and your children's relationship. He has not showed willingness or a desire to change.

So I guess rather than answer your question directly, I'd like to pose a question to you.

Are you willing to stay? Are you willing to stay knowing that there isn't anything you can do to change HIM? Are you willing to be consistently belittled and put down?

I don't think there is a right answer. There are very real and legitimate reasons to choose to stay. Those can include financial/familial security, or emotional ease. Sometimes staying can be more beneficial than leaving. Sometimes staying can be very, very scary and damaging.

I commend your courage for asking these questions. His behavior doesn't mean you are a weak or timid person. In fact, you show how fierce and courageous you are in calling it as it is, sticking up for yourself, asking important questions. You know you don't deserve to be treated like dirt. And for the record, if you decide to leave, it won't be breaking up the family. It will be HIM breaking up the family. You've given him a choice - treat you with RESPECT or don't and you will get your needs met BY leaving. If he's not WILLING to treat you with respect - that's HIS choice to break up the family, not yours.

Until you make a decision/while you make a decision, I'd like to suggest you do not bring it up with him. He has proven to be reactionary and unsafe. You may consider *quietly* gathering copies of all your financial documents, medical histories, IDs, SS cards, birth certificates, contact lists, copies of keys to the cars and your home, safety deposit boxes, etc.

You could place these in a bag, along side backup medication (including for the kids), a few changes of clothes/kids clothes, a prepaid phone, and any cash you can gather. If push came to shove, and you did leave, take any valuable jewelry with you.

I'd suggest keeping the bag at a *trusted* friend/family members house. He should never know about that bag, or that you're making copies. You may also consider making a visit to a divorce lawyer to find out custody and financial options.

This does not mean you are leaving, but gives you better ability to do so IF you choose.

Big hugs to you sister. This is tough stuff.

I'd ask him what he would do if he found himself in an intolerable situation with no hope of changing for the better in the future.
Seriously - what would he do if his back were up against a wall?
His answer might be interesting.
I'd also ask him if cursing is the only way he is capable of communicating.
Does he talk to others like that?
Why does he feel it's ok to talk to anyone like that or is it just you?
If he is rigidly unwilling to change, you've got 2 choices.
You either accept him as the way he is - or you serve him with divorce papers.
No threats - just do it.
Who cares if it's just like your father - it's an irrelevant point.
If it comes to that you can tell him I respect that you can not change and I shall make you happy by setting you free so you can find someone who appreciates you as you are, and then I'll be happy too.
Sometimes people are truly incompatible, and when you've reached that point, it's time to go your separate ways.

I finally figured out the only way to make it stop was to divorce him.

What is funny in my case is he would threaten to divorce me for stupid things like not hearing my cell phone therefore not answering it. Yet now he plays the victim because I divorced him.

My ex is a narcissist as I suspect the man Cheryl described is as well. They will not change because everything! is everyone else's fault. They are perfect!

File for divorce, he will go to counseling then. Here is a funny bit, see after you file for divorce he will want to go to prove to the counselor that you are to blame and he is perfect. This is on the assumption your husband is a narcissist as well mind you.

Oh just playing off LeeLee's comment, if you file, when he tries to win you back make no mistake the minute you stop the divorce he will go right back to the old guy. Another thing if he is like my ex it will be an ugly divorce, ugly!

Oh I want to add, and this is also under the narcissism assumption, when your kids get older, ya know teens, he will attack them in the same way. That was what it took for me to say enough. I am strong, I could take his BS but watching my equally strong 15 year old daughter sob on the sofa asking her dad if he even loves her. NOPE! no one attacks my kids, not even their father.

S.
Sometimes the people that Father our children are not meant to be the DADDY! Do you want your kids growing up thinking this is OK? If you leave it will be hard, If you leave it will be scary BUT IT WILL GET BETTER. YOU WILL FEEL BETTER. YOU WILL BE OK!
If he is refusing to change and you are in all honesty trying to make it work, then how long are you going to stay UNHAPPY? What if there is another life out there waiting for you that is A HAPPY LIFE!
The way to find out is to TAKE THAT STEP. If you start the ball rolling and with little to no effort from you, it happens, you move, you find a place you can afford, the money is there to pay all the bills, there is no struggle, there is NO DRAMA. It's the right thing. If you have to force the issue and nothing falls into place like it should, then it's not right.
Pray about it! Yes a counselor is good, but it can't replace good ole prayer!
Good luck!! I will pray for you to find the right answer!
D.

No woman (or man) should have to deal with this. A home is a place to be comfty, let lose, and relax. Everyone should have respect from their S.O. Arguing happens in every marriage, but it is how you argue and if you argue in a fair way. You said that he doesn't and that's not right. I sure hope the kids are not around when this happens. Does he disrespect them in the same way? Maybe you should test the waters and leave for a week or so.

Again, I'm sorry to read this as no person deserves this type of relationship.

You now, what people "say" and what they "live" are often two different things.
Of course people are going to respond "Oh no, not me, no way would I put up with that!"
It's a knee jerk reaction.
You probably never envisioned yourself living this on a daily basis. I'm sorry your husband treats you like he does.
It does sound different than an occasional "bad day" or "crabby mood".
The bad mood, tired, crabby days happen at my house.
My husband & I are both guilty of that.
I think it's great that you're going to marriage counseling. Do you think it is helpful for you? Can you relate it to your daily, married life? Has it made any difference? A bit or a lot?
You husband has made it clear he's not interested in a divorce, right?
At the very least he needs to learn how to "fight fair" and that means leaving your father out of it, etc.
He might be the kind that needs the bottom brought up to meet him.
Tell him that if he's not in counseling with you by a specific date, you're done. That you are willing to work on it but unwilling to be treated like this any longer. Do you think that would work? But you need to follow through with whatever change in situation you present. That might be him moving out, you leaving, a year long separation, or filing for divorce. Only you know that answer.
Is this a deal breaker for YOU?
Do you want to raise children with these role models?
Have you tried going the other direction? Being the BEST wife you can be?

I understand that this feels like a very difficult decision. Going through a divorce and figuring out how to do it on your own must be very daunting. But in reality there is only one good decision here -- leave. I don't take divorce lightly, but in some situations it is by far the lesser of the two evils. You most definitely deserve better, but for me the driving force behind my decision would be my kids. I know no one wants their kids to experience divorce, but in your case I believe what they are experiencing now is far worse than divorce. Your husband is abusing you, when children witness that kind of interaction between their parents it changes who they are. By letting this continue you are teaching them that this is what a relationship should look like and they will end up in toxic relationships of their own in the future. Would you allow your daughter to be treated this way? Or allow your son to treat his girlfriend this way? The chances are high that they will if you continue to stand by and let this happen to you. But by divorcing him you will show them that this is not okay and that you are a strong woman that will stand up for herself and protect her children from this toxicity.
I am not saying it will be easy, but don't let your fear get in the way of doing what is best for your children (and yourself). I have heard Dr Phil say it is better for a child to be *from* a broken home than *in* one. I think that is true for you and your children. Everyday you are being an example for them, just make sure it is the example you want them to follow. I wish you and your children all the best.

Call a locksmith - he can either find a new home or agree to counseling.

I read your other more recent post - don't do the leaving, do the tossing out. Men hate therapy - they think they will go an it will be some jerk (or worse, a woman) telling him what to do and taking your side.

Seems to me if he wants his marriage to work he will go to counseling and do his best.

You can keep making threats - they don't have any value now. Either way, he needs to figure out his situation for himself. He must help himself.

My husband has never spoken to me in that manner nor I him. I wouldn't even know how to react if he did. That is not normal behavior nor is his reaction to your continued request to cease. I'm at a loss as to how to help you.

I'm sure your therapist is helping with how you react to him. However, remember, you have three shining faces looking at you for guidance. If you have a son, he is learning this behavior and the cycle will continue.

I'm sorry you are going through this. This isn't how marriage works. You should feel loved, safe and valued in a marriage not demeaned, bullied and threatened.

S.:

I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am that this is happening to you.

Instead of fighting him - stop. Stop giving him the fuel he so desires. When he starts being nasty - say "thanks for the input. I'll take it into consideration." If he asks "what does that mean?" tell him straight up - I am not going to fight with you. You have stated your opinion or how you think and I'm telling you I will take it into consideration. Other than that - I'm done."

I'm not threatening divorce. I am doing it.
I am NOT your father. I am your wife and mother of your children. Your attitude sucks and WE deserve more and better.

Tell him to leave. If he can't talk to you respectfully, he needs to leave - go for a walk or something to cool off but you will NOT be treated this way.

S., it sounds like you've married an all around "gumba". Foul mouthed, machismo. I've seen plenty of those in Brooklyn. Didn't think they went past Jersey (no offense to the nice guys out there).
So, what's stopping you from leaving? The kids? They're learning his ways, which means they'll do the same to their husbands or wives in the future. Leave hun. Don't let him threaten you. Pack up and take your kids and belongings with you. Since you have a career at hand and you're probably doing well, go. Ask for help from your family. They will support you I'm sure. Being near them would be mentally supportive for me if I were in your shoes. Go to a lawyer immediately, get a restraining order, bank, get your share of the money, and leave quietly. Make sure you plan it out properly. I'm sorry you have to go through this. Good luck...

I'm a single mom. There are worse things in life than being a single mom. There are worse things in life than coming from a broken home. I think you're living it now. Is this how you want your sons to treat their wives? Is this how you want your daughters treated by their husbands?

Why won't he go to counseling? Sounds like he needs it pretty badly.What was his Dad like with his mother? You know what it sounds like... you don't leave the room when he starts the barage of insults do you? You need to do that.. You take away his power when you state exactly what you said. I am going to leave the room...I will not be spoken to this way and leave the room. As tempting as it is to respond back to his insults by leaving the room and withdrawing is quite effective. The controller doesn't know what to make of it when you leave or remain silent. Did he push your buttons or didn't he that's what he's thinking. When he is in a more respectful mood resume discussing the issue at hand. If the argument gets heated again then you have to keep withdrawing.

What does your counselor say? At this point you can only control your actions. I've been in counseling too.

Two questions. 1. How do you want to be treated in your marriage and are your needs being met toward that end? 2. Has he always been this way? If the answer to 2 is yes, then there won't be any changing him and you can forget your 1 being addressed. What incentive is there for him to change since it sounds like he is getting what he wants? Divorce even with 3 kids is not the end of the world. Plenty of moms and dads on here can attest to that simple fact.

Remember my favorite mantra - If something is hard to do and I mean really hard, then it's probably the right thing to do.

Good luck.

You can't "make" him do anything. You can change yourself and you can control your attitude and actions etc. You can only do what is right and let him to deal with his own misery. Your husband sounds like a bully. Counseling is good even if he won't go. You can try separating for a short time also. I'm sure your counselor is helpful. I shared on the other post about what happened in my family. I'll share it with you below. I'm not sure if it's helpful or not because it may not be the exact same situation. But you can disregard it if it isn't. I wish you the best. Hang in there!! Good luck!

Yes there is hope. =) My husband was similar to this. He's a "command man" and a leader. A great leader of our home and a great leader of our family. He's organized and has a strong personality. He used to come across to me as disrespectful and putting me down. I used to get so upset and all bent out of shape when he gave me a hard time about something. He'd go on and on about something that upset him until I was about to blow up. I couldn't talk to him or reason with him at all because by the time we finished the conversation it was turned back on me. I was at my wits end. I read a bunch of books which helped but I totally changed my attitude. I told myself that I was going to do everything he asked me to do with a happy heart and a good attitude (he likes to be waited on hand and foot which I love doing most of the time.) I also decided that if he got upset with me for something, I'd respond with kindness and respect, "I'm so sorry that upset you, I'll try not to do that anymore... " etc. I had to work at it because my first response was to get angry and defend myself or lash back. I started really admiring him, honoring him and respecting him, even if I was angry with him. I tried to put in perspective where he was coming from and put myself on the back burner for awhile. This is opposite of what people would recommend. But amazing things started happening. He started being really happy. He started complimenting me, thanking me, respecting me. He rarely gives me a hard time anymore and he really seems to esteem me above all others. I never felt that way before. He really adores ME and admires ME and this totally changed our relationship. This didn't happen over night. I saw little changes at first and as I was persistent in my attitude, it started snowballing. It took more than a year of me being consistent. Now our relationship is 500% better. I read "The Total Woman" by Marable Morgan and "Created to be His Helpmeet" by Debi Pearl. In the second book, the chapter about "Mr. Command Man" really helped me see my husband as a leader rather than a jerk. That chapter totally described my husband to a T. And showed his personality as a good thing and a blessing and how I can encourage him in that. Once I saw the issue was with me (which is good because as hard as it was, it was definately easier to change myself than to try to change him), I was able to move forward and change myself. I truly didn't expect him to change and our relationship to move mountains. It's been an amazing few years and it has totally changed my entire family and others around us. Whew knew? I hope this helps! Good luck!

I am quite assertive and can make his life H**( but he sometimes is so rude I don't recognize him. Even the counselor called him mean.

I thought about leaving, but I have a disease which makes it impossible to me to teach now. Plus, I don't ever want to remarry. For me, i have been trying to show him how it is to his advantage to be nice because then I am nice. Plus he cares what people think so I get on the phone and vent when he is especially annoying.

I don't know that any mom simply just leaves. "That is it. I am done. To heck with you. I will live in poverty, work two jobs to survive, etc.. but I won't try and work it out." I have never known a woman to just up and leave.