Ok i ask that my kids clean their rooms once a week....just little things like making sure any stray sock or such that may have made it under the bed or under the toybox gets picked up.....nothing major!!! Well a lot of their friends told me they dont have to clen their rooms...that the mom does it for them....i asked a few moms to verify and the ones i have asked said they never ask their kids to clean up their rooms and one has a 12 year old.....my children all make their beds (on most mornings unless they are running late or whatever)..i dont expect perfection from anyone..just that they put forth the effort....but apparantly some of my friends think im asking too much of my children. I have a 9, 8 and 3 year old.....the three year old is of course not going to do the same things the older two do......anyone else have an opinion on this???? Even if you disagree...i wanna know!!! Thanks in advance
Wow!! I did not expect sooooo many responses. I am glad to know that so many other mothers also feel that chores teach responsibility
Featured Answers
C.H.
answers from
Evansville
on
I AM WITH ALL THE REST OF THE MOMS OUT THERE ON THIS ONE....i have a 5 year old, 3 year old and twins that is 2 and then a 1 year old and i am not going to pick up every thing they bring out.......i am sorry but the 5 year old picks up really good and cleans and the others do good but think big sis will do it but i am trying to get them to help out but they are still little but keep up the good work
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J.G.
answers from
Louisville
on
I think you are right on. I have my children clean their rooms and in addition have one chore that is their responsibility to keep up with. I think it is the only way to prepare them for real life. I applaud you for helping them keep up the home they live in. Most of my friends also have their children take part in cleaning and have chores. I start them when they are 3-4 having them help with their toys. I have 5 children 14,11,4yr twins and a 14 month old than knows how to hand me something I ask him to pick up (so we are starting him early).
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J.M.
answers from
Lafayette
on
Hey J.,
I just wanted to let you know that I don't think that there is anything wrong with chores. I think people who allow their children to do nothing are in the wrong. How do you expect them to ever make it in the real world if you do not teach responsibility at home. It also teaches them that nothing comes for free if they have chores. My 5 year old has chores she has to brush her hair her teeth and pick up after herself and clean her room. I don't make her run the vaccum or dust unless she wants to and if she does I do not point out anything that she did wrong. I tell her what a great help she is and how wonderful of a job she did. I think as long as you stay with in their boundaries then you are doing the right thing. My mom used to make me do chores but it was too extream I would have to dust and clean celing fans Basicaly by the time I was a senior I mantained the house when to school and worked part time at 3 jobs. That was too much to expect out of me. But if you keep it simple there is nothing wrong at all with teaching responsibility. I don't know about you but when my children are 25 or so I don't want to go clean their houses for them!!!! Hope that helps.
J.
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J.F.
answers from
South Bend
on
Wow. Your friends would think I'm a MONSTER!!! haha My daughter is two years old, she (willingly) helps with laundry, doing the dishes and helps me put things away. At this point in her life I consider those her chores. As she gets older I will expect her to keep her room clean at least to the point where I can walk through it in the middle of the night without ending up in the ER from tripping over things. Kids nowadays just seem to have too much freedom in my opinion. I didn't have kids to have little slaves to do all my housework for me but I also want them to be responsible and a good way to teach them that is to help out around the house. Whether it's load the dishwasher or go rake the leaves outside. I think kids should have time to have fun and be kids. I don't want to take their social time away from them. 10 minutes of chores is not going to ruin their lives. If nothing else, it will make them more mature than their peers who do nothing around the house and take their parents for granted. I'd say you're doing just fine. It doesn't take long to pick up things and they'll learn that when they're finished with something, they should just put it back then and not wait. It makes cleaning a whole lot quicker! I hope this helped. Don't be too hard on yourself. This is not going to scar them for life. =)
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R.M.
answers from
Lexington
on
No you are not being unreasonable having your children do chores! My own children are an eight year old step-daughter, who has regular chores, and two sons 21 months and 4 years, and they still have to do something. Though the littlest only is to help "pick up" at the end of the day, and I let him "help" by transferring laundry from hamper to washer and washer to dryer. My four year old is also a part of these as well as expected to pick up after himself, take dishes to the sink, wipe down the table etc. My step-daughter has learned to seperate laundry, put away her own clothes, make beds, etc. I think many parents do their children a great disservice by not instilling in them the skills they will need when they leave the nest. I have a member of my own family whose mother regularly cleaned her room, and took care of all her messes, at 40 she still has her mother doing her laundry. She is also the messiest housekeeper I have ever seen. I was given chores from a young age, and by the age of 11 was doing laundry, nightly dish-washing, dusting, vacuuming, and an occasional bathroom clean-up or other more major task. Was my mother a slave-driver? No, she taught me about the importance of everyone in a family pulling their own weight and gave the skills I would need later as an independent adult. You are raising your children to be adults not to stay children forever. Oh how thankful I was that I knew how to do laundry without ruining all my clothes that first week of college when I was so far from home. How happy I was that I knew how to clean house properly when I got my first apartment with some roommates the next year. I happy I was (as well as my husband) as a new bride that I knew how to cook a meal that consisted of more than spaghetti or a microwave! You are giving your children a great gift in teaching them responsibility, and self-sufficiency, and they will thank you for it as an adult.
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S.B.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
I think chores for childern are good. They need to learn those things early if not they are gonna learn to be slobs when they get older..That is what is wrong with alot of kids these days
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A.G.
answers from
Muncie
on
I do not think you are asking too much of your 8 & 9 year old. We have a toy room and my 5 year old has to pick it up. I help, but he has to be in there every night helping too. Even my 18-month old understands what it means to pick up. You are showing your kids responsibility. When I was 8 & 9 years old I had to do dishes. I don't see anything wrong with giving your children chores to do. As mine get older they will definitely have chores to do whether it be take out the trash, set the table or dishes. You are doing the right thing. Your kids will thank you for it when they are all grown up.
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K.G.
answers from
Charleston
on
I agree with you 100%. It helps to teach kids to be responsible for them selves when they have to pick up after them selves instead of the parents doing it for them.
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D.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
I think that is great. Keep up the good work!!!
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S.M.
answers from
Fort Wayne
on
J.,
I have a 9 year old daughter and a 7 year old son and they both clean their rooms at least every other day, they make their beds every morning, they change their bedding every week, they sweep their floors twice a week, they do their own laundry, and they both do the dishes every day. They still have time for their homework and to play with their friends! I also have a 6 month old and work full time so they know that they have to take care of their own things for me to be able to spend some quality time with them playing games or whatever. So I do not think that you are being to harsh on them! It's not like you are making them get down on their hands and knees and scrub the floor! Plus it teaches them responsible as they get older!
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T.R.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
Good job on teaching your kids responsibility!! I think it's great you're having your kids pick up after themselves. I have a 4 and 2 year old, and my 4 year old has to pick up his toys after he is done with them at the end of the day, and the 2 year old thinks it's fun helping big brother. There is nothing wrong with teaching your kids responsibility, it seems so many kids today aren't taught that and they expect everything to be handed to them. I think it shows good manners too when they go over to someone else's house, that they help pick up their mess, and not just leaving it behind. I applaud you for what you are doing!!
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J.H.
answers from
Lafayette
on
J.,
My son is 10yrs old and he is asked to keep his room clean, the game room (video games) clean,to vacuum the living room, sweep the kitchen and take the trash to the curb once a week. We just added the vacuuming and sweeping over the summer. He want to lean to wash the dishes. So we gave him some other chores to teach him responsibilty. When we teach him how to do the dishes we take away something else because his school work needs to come first. Also, my nephew age 6 and my niece age 2 both have chores. My nephew has to keep his room clean, vacuum and help with the play room. My niece keeps her room clean and helps with play room. She does not do a bad job for two if she is told to clean her room she does. She does play from time to time but hey she is 2. When they are at my house I ask them clean up they do it with out and help.
I hope this helps you.
J. H
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C.P.
answers from
Kokomo
on
Oh J.,
You and I are so in the minority..I make my 8 and 4 year old dtrs clean their room. For my 8 year old, I only help change sheets and vacuum and dust occasionally...she does EVERYTHING about once a week. It is her room and she keeps how she wants within reason..you know I need to be able to walk into the room without stepping on stuff:) But, she also emptys the dishwasher, puts away her laundry, whatever. I make her mind at the table, use polite words and in general I parent her--GASP!...so what you are doing is not the norm-anymore-but certainly should be expected and makes your children better adults..and better children to be around! My 4year old is just starting and of course needs lots of short instructions and directions..but a good foundation makes a strong building! Go girl!
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L.T.
answers from
Parkersburg
on
Hello J.,well to start off my children had their own chores also, when they were small. it didn't seem to hurt them, if anything it showed them how to apreciate mom,and taught them responsibility.Remember one thing thou" Give Credit where credit is due"this will encourge them more.I used to take mine out to a movie once a month.I would write the movie that each one wanted to see and gave a star next to their name every tme they completed their chores.and at the end of the month i would take the one with the most stars to the movie.yea it was upsetting to the other but they eventually got the hang of things.well hope all works out.
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M.B.
answers from
Lexington
on
I think you are right on with having them clean their own rooms. It is a huge disservice to children to not teach them to do things for themselves. Why do you think so many of them grow to be adults who don't know how to function in the real world. You will not be there forever and sending them out into the world not knowing how to care for themselves is just sad in my opinion. Keep up the good work training them that everyone in the family has to pitch in make things run smoothly.
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T.R.
answers from
Evansville
on
Hi J.. I too have three kids ages 10,8,4 and they all do chores. The more I can get them to do the better. Now when I say that I don't mean the dirty stuff like the bathroom. The kids love helping out in all the rooms.I have some problems getting them to clean up their own rooms but thats just becouse it's never their mess lol. My mom never really made me do chores growing up and i really had a hard time learning when I was working full time having babies. I think I have just now gotten it down pat. I say if kids don't earn things they want they won't take care of it. My boys start with a certain time they have on video games/ computer. If they want more time then they do chores, folding cloths, sweeping, they love tieing old towels to their feet and "mopping" the kitchen. I am almost ready to let them vacume. In my opinion i have boys, if they learn this now, and don't mind cleaning then the better they'll be when they grow up. Just my opinion but I don't think cleaning ever hurt anyone :) have a great day!!
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A.R.
answers from
St. Louis
on
J., you are doing the great thing for your kids. My 7 yr old boy has chores as well. He makes his bed, cleans up his room, and takes the trash out. He also has a chore chart.
My 15 mo old baby picks up his toys every nigh before going to bed. He puts his diapers from the bag to a basket, and he enjoys a lot doing it !!
Helping your children to be responsible is one of the best thing you can do for them, and this is a good way to start.
Tell your children that they are going to be excellent grown ups and they will be so much appreciated by those around them!
Congratulations!!
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M.E.
answers from
Lexington
on
i think that it's great that your kids do chores. it teaches them responsibily. they also learn to be self reliant...good traits for when they grow up and are out there own. i had chores when i was younger...set the table, load the dish washer, pick up my room/make the bed, and when i was a bit older i helped with the laundry, ironing, and cooking. all things i needed to learn to be good wife and mother. the kids that don't have to help around the house are probably very spoiled and will have no clue how to take care of themselves wwhen they are older. my daughter is 15 months old and loves to help do stuff...she likes to sweep, help put clothes in the dryer, throw trash in the garbage can, and she helps pick up her toys when she is done playing...i want her learn that i will always help her, but i'm not always jsut gonna do it ofr her.
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L.R.
answers from
Evansville
on
No, you are not asking too much. I have four children and they are each asked to do certain things. Keeping their rooms picked up is a no brainer. Mine also have to clean the kitchen after meals and take out trash nightly and weekly to the curb. My husband and I own a business together and are there a great deal of the time. There is no reason that the kids shouldn't help out. Every child needs to learn early on that they have a responsibility to themselves and to those around them. Heaven help the future spouses and families of those who have never had to learn that!
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J.
answers from
South Bend
on
I can't believe those other mothers actually confess that they don't make their kids do anything. What is that teaching the kids? Are they going to have a maid following them around for life? I think even a 3 year can start cleaning up also! I think you are on the right track.
J.
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M.G.
answers from
Lexington
on
I totally agree with you. I have the same issue with my 11 year old...she says her friends dont have chores like she does. She has to maintain her room clean, unload the dishwasher and dryer, and help clean up after dinner. We have to teach them responsibilities early in life.
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S.F.
answers from
Louisville
on
I whole heartadly agree with you! My 4 and 7 year old sons are responsible for keeping their rooms picked up, and for keeping thier play room picked up. I am like you, I do not expect perfection, but I do expect them to put forth the effort. They also occasionally help me vaccuum, set the table, fold laundry and wipe down the kitchen table before dinner, and even change the kitchen trash when I ask them to, which is not often, but every once in awhile, I need that extra helping hand.
My husband and I do not feel that we're being too harsh on them. They need to learn how to care for their belongings, and they also need to learn how to care for their home. We don't belive that their chores are too difficult for them, and will adjust the chores as necessary as they get older. (They will be taught to clean for themselves, do laundry, cook, and yardwork, which is all part of the "growing up" process) I am their mommy forever, but they won't always be living with us, so they do need to know how to take care of themselves, so my job is to instill the knowhow into them now so they can use it at a later date.
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S.V.
answers from
Lafayette
on
My kids clean their own rooms! I certainly do not think that is asking too much of them. I have two boys ages 14 & 13. There have been occasions where I have helped them (maybe 1 time a year for spring cleaning). Now I don't have them make their bed but then again I don't usually make my bed. I am one of those people who don't see the point :). My kids also do some of their own laundry, they do the dishes on the weekend, the vacuum, they enpty the litter box, feed the animals, etc.
I believe my kids will be much better off knowing how and actually doing these things. They need to contribute to the family well-being also. Keep it up. Good Job!
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E.M.
answers from
Louisville
on
hell no your not doing anything wrong.... how long are thoes parents going to clean up after them i mean are the kids going to take them to college and clean up after them??? my 3 year old is to pick up her room each night that way it doesn't build up so much and we have to do a mojor cleaning. and she kind of understands that. but she doesnt mind too mcuh b/c the next morning she knows where all her toys are... of course we help some but its mostly her job... hope this helps!! keep up the good work your not a bad mom!!!
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K.G.
answers from
Lexington
on
Dear J.,
Please continue to EXPECT the best FROM and FOR them. The parents that don't expect anything from their chidren are always the ones who are surprised when they get nothing from them...ie. respect, obedience, love...etc. They constintly remind their children of all the things that they've done for them and they are surprised when the children are rude,self-centered, and ungrateful.
I have 4 children, one has grown up and is now living on her own but the 3 that live at home split chores and are EXPECTED to be respectful and even if they don't agree with me they are EXPECTED to obey me. People stop me all the time and ask me how I get them to listen and be so polite...I tell them that I EXPECT them to behave...and those same people walk away, shaking their heads...they just don't get it. I also ran a childcare business from home for 10 years and when I had those children they behaved themelves so it's not just my children.
When my children tried the old...so and so's mom lets them do this or that...I respond "It's just YOUR bad luck that I am YOUR Mom and not So and so...or I ask them "if I was so and so's mom do you think they would be able to do that?"
Don't stop what you are doing. You would be doing your children a GREAT disservice if you stop EXPECTNG anything from them.
Good Luck
K.
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K.S.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
My kids actually have a chore chart - with different things from picking up their room to making their bed to cleaning the bathrooms and vacuming. None of it is too hard and their allowance is based on how many stickers they get every week. So to them its important to get as much done as they can because their allowance is signifgantly smaller than it would be if they put forth an effort.
However, I do have friends that clean their kids' rooms and frankly I think its more of a control thing than a my kids shouldn't have to do chores.
Don't question yourself because your kids are the ones that are going to be ready to go out in the world one day without worrying about how to clean their apartment or do their laundry.
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K.M.
answers from
Fort Wayne
on
Wow!!! Suffice it to say I don't think you are the one being unreasonable here. My kids are 11, 3, and 1. My 11-year-old daughter is expected to keep her room neat. Not that she does, but I'm certainly not going to do it for her, that's ridiculous. My three year old is expected to pick up his toys in the living room and the one year old helps with that too. I didn't have many chores growing up, but making my bed was one of them. I think a lot of the reason I have so much trouble keeping up with housekeeping was that I didn't learn how, because my mom did pretty much everything. She was great at it and it just came naturally. It doesn't come naturally for me, so I've found an awesome free website that really helps called flylady.net. I feel like I'm doing my kids a disservice when I don't show them they can help with those chores that they are capable of doing.
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R.S.
answers from
Lexington
on
J. I'm right with you on this one. I have a 9year old stepson and he is expected to make his bed, put his dirty clothes in the hamper, help clean up the table after dinner and feed the cats. I don't feel lik that's asking too much at all, he's totally capable of doing these chores. I have a 2 year old daughter as well, obviously, she can't do as much, but she does "help" clean her room and put away her toys, she also helps with feeding the cats.
I think that you are helping your boys learn to be responsible young men.
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J.M.
answers from
Elkhart
on
J.,
I thank you on behalf of your children's future college room mates, spouses, neighbors and employers. I don't think we should ever be made to feel as if helping our children learn responsibility is a bad thing. Keep up the good work. Thanks!
J.
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H.C.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
I do not believe there is anything wrong with making your kids take some responsibility for thier own things, no matter what age. You seem to be reasonable about what is expected of each child individually due to age. Those other parents who wait to introduce chores until thier kids are in thier teens are going to have a major battle on thier hands. Some of them may not expect that of thier kids at all, and that is only going to teach thier kids to get someone else to do things for them. We need to instill a value to our property and belongings at an early age, or they will take everything for granted. I think the lack of responsability as young children can lead to a lot of problems for them when they become young adults. I praise you for what you are doing. My son is only 2 1/2, but he already helps put away toys before we go on to something new. I know there is nothing wrong with what I am teaching my son. You should feel good that your kids already have a sense of responsibility at a young age. Don't listen to those other moms, they'll be sorry one of these days.
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T.P.
answers from
Fort Wayne
on
I think that it is great that you have your kids do chores. My parents had me do chores form the time I could walk. I do the same for my daughter. She has to put her toys away befor she goes to bed or befor we go somewhere. I think that it helps them when they get older and out on their own.
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J.C.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
my 4 1/2 & 5 1/2 yr olds have chores. nothing too big, but they do have stuff to help out with. I tell them the house is for the benefit of the whole family so the whole family helps out. they each are responsible for cleaning their room before they go to bed or before we leave to go somewhere & after I fold clean laundry they each put their own away.
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K.W.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
I have always made my kids understand that they are part of a family and we all have responsibilities. I think you are right on, girl! I also remind them that one day they will have a family and they need to know how to do these things as well as get used to doing them. Keep up the good work. This is where responsible adults come from!!
Applause!!
K.
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J.H.
answers from
Lexington
on
my opinion is that you are a fantastic mom that is teaching your children responsibility and how to survive on their own eventually! i am of the belief that too many kids today think they are "owed" something by this world and their parents. not expecting your kids to help out does them a great disservice-- how are they to learn how a family works if only mom does all the work? your girls would grow up feeling like they in turn have to do all of everything if they have a family, and your boys would expect that out of their wives... it takes a team to run a house and that includes all members!
good luck!
J.
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T.H.
answers from
Charleston
on
Hi,
I'm a mother to 5 and 2 step children. Mine has to clean their rooms plus.... Fold their own clothes and put away, dishes, sweep floors, and dust. It teaching them how to do what they need to do. We show them what they miss and offer better ways to do this. We are to teach and raise these children to be able to do these thing once they get out on their own. Also as I tell mine we are a family not all should go on one person. We work as a family so we all have more time to do things. My twin girl which are 14 and my 15 year old son also now helps to cook. Now the 2 littler one which is 11 and 7 help making cookies and cakes. Inmy Opinio it is teaching them 1.) how to do these things, 2.) responibility, 3.) How to work as a group/family. We gave birth to these wonderful children. We suppose to raise them and teach them, not be their slave or maid. Do what you feel right for your children and yourself... don't listen to what other thinks because you the one who raising them, living with them and you will have these children in your life as adult. Not the other families.. listen to opinion and advice.. but listen to your own mind and heart too. Don't doubt yourself.
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J.F.
answers from
Elkhart
on
Don't change your ways! I'm sick and tired of kids today not being taught responsibility. You are teaching your children to take responsibility and respect. I wish every mom would do the same. NO child is ever too young to learn these basics. I try to get my boys (4 and 6 years old) to pick-up their room and put their shoes, jackets and back-packs where they go. We have a checklist on the wall. They get smily faces for feeding the dog, helping set the table and other small jobs around the house. I am their mom not their maid. A moms job is to teach and prepare a child for life. No one is going to pick-up their room when they go to college. They should respect their mom and the things they have been given. Although society seems to think everything is disposable, it doesn't have to be. Chores (and being a good example) are great ways to teach our children respect, responsibility, value, and functioning in a family. I learned how to care for my family and home by practicing skills as a child doing chores. And since so many women are called to work outside the home, boys should know how to contribute to the workings of the household too (and not just mowing the lawn, and taking out the trash). When a husband and a wife help around the house, the house runs smoothly. How can we have functioning adults, unless we teach these things to our children. I think you should scold some of your friends for with-holding important life lessons from their children. God bless you and your family.... J.
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B.G.
answers from
Lexington
on
you are definately right to ask your kids to help around the house, especially the older ones. How are they supposed to learn to respect what you do as a parent if they have no idea what it is you do? And there is nothing wrong with getting help from perfectly healthy and capable kids. As a child, my siblings and I all had responsibilities and I think we had more respect for our parents because of it. It helps me to be a better parent now.
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S.H.
answers from
Philadelphia
on
I think giving children chores help with daily life. Being organized is not a bad thing. I don't ask my kids to make their beds during the week before school but I do make them clean their room and make their bed on the weekend. My daughter will be 10 years old this month and my son jus turned 8 yr. They hate doing chores, I also wash their clothes fold it and live it for them to put in their dresser or closet. So yes, they need to see that mom has a tough job and they need to help out once in a while and as they get older more responsiblities. When are we suppose to show our kids to be neat and help out when they r 15 years old I don't think so...we will be worrying about other things like driving or whom they r hanging out with.
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C.H.
answers from
Los Angeles
on
Girl, look. Nothing against moms that do "everything" for their kids, but they are not preparing them for real life. The reality is that kids doing household chores is preparing them for adult life. If they dont learn now, when will they? They have to keep a tidy environment where ever they go.... and take from me...a self professed slob...It will be very hard for them to adjust.
I was very rebellious as a child when it cam to keepin a tidy room. I couldnt understand why it had to be sooo clean, I mean it was "my room", right? Wrong, had I learn that lesson then, I wouldnt be struggling now. It is a major chore for me to be neat and tidy, both at home and work, and as a result I am often scrambling and late looking for this or that.
Recently, I have incorporated a chore chart for all of us. And as well as inforcing it for my three kids, I enforce it for myself as well. And It works...so I say keep up the good work, and you are doing the right thing by making your kids have responsibilites around the house!
P.S.
My kids are 11, 10, and 4 yrs old and they all have at least one chore to keep up with!
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H.S.
answers from
Evansville
on
I have a 16 yr old that I can't even get him to shower or brush his teeth!!! let alone clean anything else...he is verbally abusive and yells everytime I try to tell him something..He had a girlfriend and she got pregnantbut lost the baby last week...There is no talking to him and no living with him most days...Help...H. S.
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K.C.
answers from
Fort Wayne
on
My kids are 6,5, and 7 months....My older two have to clean their rooms at least once a week as well as help me around the house...If they see the bathroom needs straightend up they know to help out and straighten it...If the living room needs picked up they pick it up....I see it as being part of a kids life is having some responasablity...They are even in charge of making sure the dog and cat have food....
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R.C.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
I NEVER cleaned my room as a kid. When I had had had to (under threat of punishment) I just thre everything into the closet. The funny thing is, that as an adult, I've been known as the Clean Nazi by numerous roommates. My husband thinks I'm a nut job.
So, you may be frustrated now, but your kids will learn by your example. Hang in there and keep encouraging them to clean up ater themselves.
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L.
answers from
Indianapolis
on
I totally have my daughter do chores. She is 8, will be 9 in Dec. I give her a short list of things to do almost everyday and it's all things I know she can do. I definately don't think you're asking to much, you're teaching them responsibility!
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K.P.
answers from
New York
on
My daughter is 9, and I try to instill in her the importance of taking care of her responsibilities. My husband is the "enforcer" in this. I sometimes find myself reminding her, but complete the task myself.
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V.C.
answers from
Wheeling
on
I know you already got more responses than you'd expected, but I just wanted to 'chime in', too!
We don't rear our kids for their pleasure at every turn. We are trying to rear responsible, caring, selfless, helpful adults that someone ELSE can live with for 30-60 years AFTER our 18-20 years of initial investment! The more kids do for themselves, the better they FEEL about themselves (up to a point, of course! As my deceased mom used to say, "There's reason in all things" --meaning 'finding a balance', and "Too much of ANY good thing is bad." You sound very reasonable, though).