Sorry this is long...I've been working at my company for almost 15 years, at pretty-much the same level for the past 5 of them. I have survived many rounds of layoffs, the most severe being in late 2011, when my boss and four colleagues were let go, leaving me and one other team member remaining. My role changed dramatically to cover the business-critical functions of my departed colleagues and I handled the transition well, elevating my profile quite a bit. After almost 2 years with my replacement manager, we went through another reorg and I've been with my new manager and team for a few months. Team and manager are great - really a breath of fresh air and I love my job again.
My boss has four teams, and the team I am on has 10 people - 1 reports to me, 1 of my peers flies solo, and 1 of my peers manages 6 people. So yesterday my manager (lets call him Joe) said that we were getting a new person on our team and what kind of role did I think needs to be filled? His thoughts and mine were the same in that either someone a level below me - a programmer with a specific skill set that we don't have in my company - would fill a gap but someone at the level above me would be able to transform the direction of team dramatically and make us a much more valuable part of the company. We then talked about how the two guys I worked with would be ill-suited to lead the whole team for various reasons. I then said something like "so if you're looking for transformation, I really think an outside hire at that level would be a great move." At which point Joe said..."well what about you? You talked about the other two but skipped over yourself?" ARGH!!! WHY DID I DO THAT!!! SUCH A 'GIRL' MOVE!!!
Of course while I was talking to Joe I had an inner dialogue going on in my head saying "express interest...no you really don't want that headache you're great where you are...but you need to move up and this is a chance...but you have an awesome schedule that really works for your family...but your family would be better off if you had more seniority...but that sounds like a pain...but you have to at least pretend to be interested so you're not passed over forever..."
I kind of fumbled through a response along the lines of "well if that's an option it's something we would have to talk about. I can see where my experience would be an asset but then again, I have the same problem that Bob has in that I've been here a long time and I don't know any other way, but I'm way more flexibile and open to change than he is..." etc. It was a TERRIBLE recovery where I undersold my own skills and didn't say anything about actually having interest.
So...how do I recover from this? We have a really good relationship so far but other than knowing my work for the past 4 months and that as one of the last two standing from a 7-person team that I have some obvious value and skills he really doesn't know me that well. I feel like I have to follow this up with directly saying that if a role opens up to manage the team, I am definitely interested in being considered for that role. Do I just leave it at that? Do I try to explain my lack of decisive response yesterday or say that I was caught off guard by the topic of conversation? Or would that make me seem like someone who can't think on her feet?
To tell the truth, I'm not looking for a promotion but advancement opportunities in my company doing what I do don't come along every day...or at all, really. I can't do what I do forever so if I don't somehow translate my current role into something more senior, I'm going to have to find a completely new department or company to work for so that I don't stagnate forever. I should have way more responsibility (and compensation) at this point given my education, experience and expertise in my field. While being an individual contributor is nice, there's a ceiling to how much one can make without taking on management responsibilities.
What would you do if you were me? Thanks!
Thank you! I will definitely follow up in person when I see him again tomorrow (and will be compiling the responses below to craft the right message LOL). Regarding clarifying what I want...that's a great point. I'm not actively seeking a promotion but am long overdue to step up to the next level of my career in terms of influence, responsibility, and salary. My concern is that if I don't clearly express interest now, that even if this opportunity isn't the right fit for me now, my manager won't seriously consider me if another opportunity comes along. At the end of the day I'd be fine if they hired someone outside for us to work with and would enthusiastically partner with that person on implementing his or her vision (I excel in executing someone else's plans), but I can't live on this salary forever and at some point, will need to suck it up a bit, give up my comfort zone and ridiculously relaxed schedule and work a little harder in order to make more money.
I don't think you blew it at all-I think it is a great way to go back to him tomorrow and tell him that you have had a chance to think about the situation and that you feel you are abundantly qualified and capable and then start listing you assets-knock 'em dead, Kiddo!
I would go back in to talk to him today. Just say you know you sounded fumbly yesterday, but if the opportunity arises you are definitely interested in being considered for the position. I wouldn't make excuses or belabor the point, just let him know upfront you are interested.
Been there, blew that! Yup, those conversations come right at you when you least expect them. Once I had to go back to a boss the next day and say "Whoa, our conversation yesterday was unexpected, and yes, I am very interested and think I could do the work well. Let's talk some more." And I got the promotion!
I'm thinking that first you have to make a decision whether you want to advance now or not. You can't clarify your postionon this with your boss until you clarify it for yourself. Then you can consider saying "Thanks for the conversation the other day. Yes, I am capable and interested in further discussion." or "Thanks for the conversation the other day. While I am capable of the work, at this point my position fits very well with my other responsibilities in life. Would you be open to us revisiting this the next time such a wonderful opportunity presents itself?"
My take, as a manager that has a tough time finding talent and hates hiring.
You can easily recover from this and it was not at all a big deal.
You were caught off guard. But given that he asked about you qualifying for the role...he has clearly considered you in that capacity already.
And given your perspective, you seem like a good fit that could easily take on new challenges. You just seem to have a dose of self doubt in there.
If I were your manager...
I would rather work with a known quantity. If I thought hiring from the outside was the only way to get talent that I needed, I would go that direction. But given that I had already considered you for the promotion role, I would be thrilled if you changed your mind and decided to take it on. I would not personally fault you for not having put that much thought into it. That's just me. Some, I guess, would see that as a lack of ambition. But in my experience, those that are most ambitious are not always the ones that are best suited for the job.
It's totally OK to say that you considered it more and think it's something you'd like to pursue. My guess is that he'll be happy to hear it.
I think this is one of those moments in life that you have to seize. Tell Joe you went home and thought about it, and you feel you'd be a great person to fill the job because (and then list all the reasons you'd be great). Think of a few ideas you could run by him that might be along the lines of what he's looking for in this promotion.
If your company/industry has experienced layoffs, it could happen again without notice. Don't assume that seniority keeps you safe - if you've effectively said you're not interested in growing with the company, you'll be screwed when heads start to roll. Even if your company doesn't ever lay off a single person, turning down a promotion will relegate you to this same job. Bosses don't tend to offer something like this twice. Whether or not you like it, you're probably going to need to take this promotion. Keep in mind that there may be an opportunity in the future to move back toward the type of work you'd rather do, so this move may not be a forever thing.
aw, dang! i'm sorry you flubbed, but love your clear-eyed assessment of yourself, and your handling of this regrettable but not fatal fumble.
your boss sounds like a good egg. i'm impressed with his directness in throwing the ball to you. i would schedule a meeting with him and be very simple and very direct. 'joe, i want to address the promotion we discussed the other day. i'm embarrassed that it caught me off-guard and i'm feeling a little sheepish about my response to you. thanks for giving me this opportunity to clarify my position.'
and sell yourself.
or explain why you want to stay where you are.
either way, the air is cleared.
i disagree with the perspective that leaving it muddled will do anything positive. IF he thinks poorly of you for it (unlikely) he won't think any better of you for leaving it in a disheveled state. i just don't see a downside to you creating an opportunity to present yourself in a better light, no matter what outcome you want.
sounds to me as if you are a significant asset to them. give yourself a polish and shine!
:) khairete
S.
We had a manager position above us that had a revolving door on that office.
Few lasted in the position and one was gone in as little as 6 months.
It was a high pressure job and you had to be diplomatic to so many levels of people who didn't have a clue how the mainframe/system/programs worked.
So many times the position was offered to our lead programmer.
He not only said 'No!', he said 'Hell No!'.
No one who know anything about what that job entailed would touch it with a 10 foot pole.
You didn't have to be crazy to work there but it helped.
Actually we did have someone who eventually took it.
Yep - he was certifiably insane in a boss/supervisory position and did things that were just this side of legal.
Like accuse a woman going through chemo/radiation for breast cancer of using her condition as a reason to slack off at work.
You have to figure what the right balance is for your career and family.
Often moving on up means sacrificing family.
Make a point of watching 'Baby Boom' - 1987 starring Diane Keaton.
It's excellent and one of my all time favorites.
JB,
I don't think you blew anything.
Do you know how hard it is for me as a recruiter/staffing manager to get people to "toot" their own horns???
Go back to Joe tomorrow and tell him - I've had some more thoughts on the talk we had the other day regarding our department. Do you have a few minutes?
Then go over your stance, what you are looking for, what you bring to the table, etc.
I don't think for one second you blew this conversation. Not by a long shot!
You've got it?!??!? Flaunt it!! Many people don't do it on the fly. You are more humble. It's ALL GOOD!!
I can kind of relate though I have zero desire for advancement and want less responsibility and my boss knows that. So it's almost a joke. I've been with my company a long time too and have had the same boss a long time so it's a close, comfortable relationship. In your case, you can absolutely recover but it's not clear what you want. You're not looking for a promotion yet will have to leave to find something more senior? Can you clarify that?... If you do to advance, I would go and say "Joe, I tend to want to not be self promoting (if you are in fact typically modest) so I was caught off guard yesterday (difference in not being able to think on your feet for a business vs personal decision. He should know by now if you can for business) and I gave it thought and I would be very interested in the position. My experience would be an asset and then list another couple of reasons you'd be good. If there's a way to "learn another way" mention that. Otherwise ignore that comment as not much you can do now but point out the positives of promoting you. I've found that despite my protests, my boss will still give me more responsibility. If a boss wants to bc they trust you, they will. I don't think the conversation yesterday will override all the positive impressions you've built the past few months plus likely your general reputation. But do you want this? Why would you want more seniority somewhere else but not there? And schedule etc is impt. I don't want more responsibility bc right now I have plenty of time for family. So don't disregard that. Maybe it's timing until your kids are even older?...
You didn't blow it! You were unprepared and caught off guard. You don't know if you do or do not want this opportunity. It IS alot to think about! You're fine girl! Talk it over tomorrow, see if it is something you want!
I don't see this as a fumble, though you likely feel uncomfortable initiating a revisit, simply because it's about you. It really works in your favor that he mentioned you, because it means that he's considered it on some level.
Don't make a ceremony of it. First, decide if you are interested in LOOKING INTO IT, not necessarily taking the job. They might have some changes in mind, with changes in personnel, so the job won't necessarily look exactly as it does today. That can go either way, but the fact that he brought your name into it could mean that you might have a teeny bit of say in what that looks like. It could never hurt to have a conversation. He'll understand that you would want to consider it from all angles first. This can also be a lesson for you to start giving yourself more credit.
Schedule an appointment to "sit wth" him, pick his brain. Keep it casual, but let him know that you're interested in knowing--for YOURSELF--just what they have in mind for the person they move into this position.
I'd send a follow-up email: "Thank you for the opportunity to provide input on the next hiring move. I wanted you to know I'd like to be given serious consideration if a position opens up to manage the team. I think I'd be a great fit, given ..." Then provide a reminder of all of your qualifications.
You're getting your point across without sounding like you goofed yesterday.
You're over-thinking it... the guy probably didn't give what you said a second thought, at least not as negatively as you are..
In which case, either ask him to chat or send him an email and tell him point blank, I am definitely interested in the new role and thank him for considering you as such..
I would also add that next time, although you may not feel someone else is warranted for the job, it's never a good idea to put someone down in order to raise yourself.. e.g. when you said you both have the same problem but you are more flexible...instead, allow your merit to speak for itself... by virtue of his question to you about "how about you"... that in and of itself says something.. he must think you might be good for the job.. I just told my son yesterday when he remarked, when people get lower grades than me, I look better. I said No, it just means they got lower grades than you.. I told him what I told you... let your own merit speak for itself.. whether someone else does good or bad it's their thing...
Either way, sounds like a blessing is coming your way.. are you ready for it.. I think you have to write out all the pros and cons and see what means more to you.. and has more value.. I left a job and it left me.. (meaning, it moved south and I didn't want to go) and although I don't have the income I once did, the time with my son has been invaluable.. but it has meant monetary cutbacks.. really consider what is right for you and then proceed forward..
best of luck to you
I think I would follow up and say something along the lines of:
"Sorry I was a bit non-committal yesterday. I was caught off guard when you asked about me in that role. I didn't immediately express interest as I didn't want to assume I was in the running; however, I would be interested in being considered for such a position and discussing further.
I would bring it up again, maybe in an email, that you are definitely interested in the position, but were taken completely off guard by his comment.
Ask him if you can visit with him about something. Then when you get in there simply say "I really like where I am. That's why I didn't mention my own name. Of course I'd be perfect for the job but I'd need to hear more about it because I am really really enjoying where I am now. You put me in the perfect place. But maybe it's time I did challenge myself. Tell me more about this position".
