Would This Worry You?

Hiding under the car to eavesdrop is not harmless - that's stalker behavior.
Getting depressed and angry and storming off to pout if she wants to sit somewhere other than by his side is emotional manipulation.
Stabbing a water bottle is a thinly veiled threat.
Emailing her mother about marrying her is just plain creepy.
This kid is bad news and if I were the girl's mother, I would be telling him to stay the hell away from my daughter or there will be a restraining order with his name on it.

Even without the water bottle incident, it is creepy His hiding under her car is way overboard. This is not something to take lightly. Seriously, if one of my girls had this happen to them, I would be very concerned and want to talk to the school counselor and the dean,, as well as the boys parents. If my son did anything like this, I would want to know and step in to set things straight. Too many things happen and extreme reactions.

Late here, but if this boy was one of my sons, no way in holy hell would I allow this to continue - and my son would have an apt with a psychiatrist ASAP. He's stalking this girl.

I hope things settled down, because....poor, poor girl to not have her parents looking after her!

A.,

I think the other adults are WAY too lax here, and someone needs to step up and help this girl AND this boy.

The worst part is the girl says she feels scared, uncomfortable and wants it to stop!! THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH! She wants it to stop! Yet, no adult in her camp is helping her!!!! This goes against everything we try to teach our kids! It's basically telling this girl she has no right to her feelings, to her boundaries (physical and emotional), to her privacy, to her rights to be free from this behavior.

And what is it telling this boy? It tells him that it's okay to violate others' privacy, boundaries, space, etc. And now, he keeps pushing it and upping the behavior. When will it reach the limit where these adults will say "enough!" ?
When he's found hiding in her closet? Peeping through her windows? Taking inappropriate photos of her?

We are always talking about teaching our kids, especially our boys, young men, and men that NO MEANS NO. Yet no adult here is assisting him in learning this lesson. Every person has to learn to deal with disappointments and rejections in a healthy, appropriate way. It's time for him to start learning that, and it may likely require the help of a mental health professional.

This isn't a cute or silly crush. It's abnormal behavior on a very unhealthy trajectory. Someone needs to step up and protect this girl and to get this boy the help that he needs.

Talk to you friend, and tell her how you truly feel. Talk to her from the point of teaching her daughter about saying no to unwanted advances. Ask her if this were 3-4 years from now, and a boy in college were doing this to her daughter, would she still see it as okay? Maybe she'll see it from that perspective and and help her daughter.

ETA: If this were my daughter, I'd be addressing his parents with a clear message that all of this must stop. The next step would be a restraining order.

J. F.

I'm a retired police officer and I would feel very concerned. I see that the girls mom has much to consider. The boy is in her before school care, her after school class and is good friends with his family. Anything she does will have a major affect not only on her life but also her livelihood. I understand her not knowing what to do. I don'T understand her telling her daughter to continue to be friends with him. If his mother is a good friend why does she not tell her about what is going on? Perhaps she has and the two women are denying there is a problem. This is a common coping style when we don'T know what to do, feeling overwhelmed, have an emotional need to believe everything is OK. I suggest she is in denial.

I suggest that approaching her in a kind and understanding way may help her to see the danger. I suggest you list what has happened. (1., 2., 3., etc.) Give her the list. It may help for her to see it written down in one place. I would also include descriptions of teens and school shootings.

If you have a relationship with the daughter that would allow it I would talk with her as others have suggested. I agree to informing the police. The written list will help them. Since this isn'T happening at the school I wouldn't talk with them.
If there is someone else that the mother trusts I would talk with them. If you're friends, even casually, with the boy's mother I would talk with her. Perhaps start by talking about the incident in which you were involved.

Ordinarily I advise staying out of parenting decisions. However, this involves a real possibility of danger for many people even for yourself since you spend time wiTh the family.

Nope, not normal and it IS stalking.

He sounds a bit "off". And here where we live, a dad would pull him aside and tell him," son, you better stay away from my daughter." This dad would probably go over and speak with the parents also. Letting them know that this behavior will no longer be tolerated and if it continues the authorities will be contacted and as a matter of fact, this father is going to speak with the school to make sure they have a heads up..

IF this behavior did not stop the Police and the School Principal would also be notified.

There is a difference from having a crush and being hurt that the person does not like you the same way, from being odd , threatening and relentless.

I was creeped out long before you got to the water bottle with the knife.
1) people don't stalk and hang out eavesdropping on family cars. They just don't. That is waaaay out of line of "normal".
2) Why do her parents (of all people!) insist she maintain ANY interaction with a boy she doesn't want to interact with?! I guess they made her hug and kiss all the creepy friends and family when she was a toddler, too. Geesh.

This is scary. I feel terribly for her. And I hope someone will stand up for her and tell her she doesn't have to take any of it, and report something to somebody. The boy sounds like he could actually be dangerous. Does he have access to other weapons besides a knife? Geesh.
--
ETA:
I was once 14 (as we all were).
I currently have a 16 year old son.

I draw the line at him hiding underneath her car.
That's not normal.
Teen guys with a crush are usually shy and are looking for approval - they do NOT do things to creep out the girl they are trying to impress.

It's also not normal for her parent to insist the girl keep a close friendship with her stalker.

Stabbing a water bottle?
Why has a moody teen got a pocket knife?
What 15 yr old boy is so fixated on marriage?
Where are HIS parents and what do THEY think about his behavior?
Why haven't they got him playing a sport so he's too busy to be giving this girl trouble?

This girl has got trouble from both this guy AND her parents if they are thinking he's mostly harmless.
Seeing as her parents are not looking out for her, it might be a good thing if they lost custody of her.

I agree with Angela. This is NOT NOT NOT normal. I have two teenagers and if they or someone they know was either party in this scenario, the guidance office at school, or even law enforcement, would be involved.

He's stalking her.

Stalking is never, ever justified. It's not normal, it's not cute, it's not angst-y, it's not OK.

This girl's mother needs to grow up and establish appropriate boundaries with this boy for herself and her daughter. Someone needs to talk to this boy's parents. Someone needs to tell the boy that the girl is not her friend, there is no relationship, and his behavior is unacceptable and needs to stop. And if it doesn't? Restraining order.

This boy needs mental health help, and this girl needs to know that she is right, her instincts are right, her desire for boundaries is appropriate and that the adults in her life will respect her right to privacy and safety and will stand behind her.

The police would be involved from the first time I knew about this, if it were my daughter. I don't think my sons would ever be this creepy either. Not normal.

Yes, this does worry me.

What about the shooting at the high school that just happened in the last few weeks in Washington state?

That kid sent lunch invites to meet him at a table, then opened fire and shot them... including 2 of his cousins!

That 15 year old is stalking a 14 year old that is feeling creeped out by his behavior, and HER M. thinks she needs to be friends with him to help him be more normal? No freaking way!

Someone needs to intervene...... if nothing else, is there any way you can go talk to the school counselors and tell them what you've heard? This needs to be addressed. They can call the girl in and talk to her, and get her story and feelings heard.

I think the other two adults are UNDER REACTING in a very large way.

This will not have a good ending i fear.

Solid boundaries need to be set, and the young man involved needs counseling...like yesterday.

Best

NOT Normal. I have a 15 year old son. I would hope that if he was doing something like this (which he's not), someone would tell me so I could get him the help he needs.

This girl needs to call the police, if her mom won't. She needs to document everything that is going on. If she has asked him to stop, it's imperative that
it's communicated in writing that she wants him to cease and desist contacting her.

If that doesn't work, she needs to get a restraining order.

I would find a self-defense class for her as well. This boy might not understand and accept "NO" and she needs to be prepared and be able to protect herself.

If you know the boys mom? I would go to her and let her know what's going on. I would tell my girlfriend whose daughter this is happening to, to step back and take a good hard look at the situation.

I've got no problem with people carrying pocket knives, I do have a problem with someone stabbing a water bottle in anger. Next time, it might not be a water bottle. Does the mom KNOW about that? If so and she did nothing? She's a flake. You need to advocate for this girl.

In at least two of the latest mass shootings, reports included the gun man as feeling "snubbed" by one or more love interests. I would be very concerned. But, in your situation I don't really know what you can do if the parents don't have a concern. If the girl were to confide in me, I may be inclined to help her find someone she can talk to. A school counselor, a pastor, a police officer, even someone at a battered women's shelter. But I would do that knowing full well that her parent might think I had crossed a line and that my relationship with the family may be forever severed. If she is scared, it is serious!!

I'm with you all the way - this is not normal behavior. I just read your post (minus any opinions) to my 16 year old daughter to get her opinion and she said "what?!! That is not normal! He's a creepy stalker dude! He should be in therapy."

I have to feel for this 14 year old girl who must feel like her mother has betrayed her confidence. If her mother won't protect her, who will?

Wow, this poor girl is being stalked and her mother thinks this is just a normal teenage crush! The fact that this girl is uncomfortable speaks volumes.

I think that if the 14 yr old is creeped out, then his behavior is creepy and unwanted and unwarranted. His "moods" need to respect her boundaries. Writing things that bother others off as "boys will be boys" or similar is how people get into trouble, or get harassed or assaulted. When my then teenaged SD came to me and said a car had been following her, we called the cops. They said it was the right thing to do. I encourage my kids to trust their gut. I hope that gut feeling keeps them out of trouble.

If it were my daughter, I would not be brushing off her reports, and I would be in the school if the parents would not speak to their son. I would go out of my way to never have them carpool. I would tell the parents that he needs to find another way home. He can no longer ride with me because he cannot respect my child and acts out in inappropriate ways when she doesn't reciprocate his advances.

Insisting that she maintain a friendship and email contact with this unstable boy is harmful TO HER. She should not be forced to keep contact with someone who makes her uncomfortable. Period. It is not her job to placate him. What happens when she gets a real boyfriend? Will he take his angst out on the two of them? This is a dicey situation, IMO.

I would highly encourage my friend to take this seriously and not sugar coat it. If the boy has issues, then they should be addressed - BEFORE he does something to her daughter. Her priority should be her child, not him or the friendship.

If she chooses to do nothing, I would remind the girl that if she is bothered by anyone, she can talk to the school counselor. Perhaps remind her in the company of my own child (if they are similar ages) so that the message is that there is a resource if you feel you are not being heard. If her parents cannot see the problem with this, then I really fear for her. This is not normal teenage behavior. Especially the crawling under cars bit. That's not cool. Ever.

ETA:

I think that if the 14 yr old's mom wants to keep her own nose clean she needs to consider how not addressing her own child's needs will affect other children. If I were a mom with a kid in either program that the 14 yr old's mom ran and I heard this, I would be pulling my DD from that program and possibly considering a report if I thought kids were in danger. My DH thought a little boy in DD's class was just crushing on her, but he was bothering her and harming her ability to do well in class. He was mean, and I was tired of it. I reported it to the teacher who addressed it immediately. That is how these things should be handled, not brushed off. If he assaults her (frankly, I could see it happening) what then? Does the mother blame her daughter for not indulging this kid's fantasies? Or what if he transfers to someone else? Lawsuit, anyone?

Further, I would have to consider if I wanted to continue to go running with this group if they condone this behavior instead of getting it properly addressed. If he was angry that the girl was talking to an adult instead of him, then that is huge and I would not be comfortable about any of it. Have you considered telling him clearly that she doesn't want his attention, she is allowed to talk to you, and he needs to back off? If he was getting angry because of your interaction, I would consider it within my place to speak to him. That is not only a problem for her, but now a problem for adults. The girl sounds like she is trying hard and needs help. She should not need to try to put other people between herself and this boy because her mother can't stand up for her. Please do not be silent.

I would be freaked out if I was the parent of the girl. OR the boy. It's too much. How does the girl herself feel? Maybe her parents are thinking keep your friends close and your enemies closer" and/or don't want to set off a potentially unstable young teen... and so they are dealing with it very gently.

His behavior is SO not appropriate for his age. What is the school's role in this? Does a lot of this take place on campus? Is there a factor behind his behavior (any sort of mental health or developmental diagnoses) in which the school might be working with him on social behaviors?

And lastly... the pocketknife.... um, I don't know any school district in the US where kids are allowed to have knives of any kind in their pockets, so if this particular incident happened on campus, he could be suspended or expelled. And if he carries it around all the time he should be reported STAT, he cannot have that at school. I am supercurious to get more details about that part of the story, how that was able to be swept under the rug.

The 14 year girl should talk to her school counselor (you know me, always advising to get the counselors involved!) but really she could use some backup and protection from the school. Or advice on how to put some distance between.

You are in a tough spot but maybe your alarmed reaction gave the parents a little dose of reality.

I personally would find this all quite disturbing.

Is the mother of the girl forcing this "friendship"?

Does the girl actually want to be close to this boy?

That amount of possessiveness and aggression can only lead down a bad path.

This girl needs to file a police report. This boy is over the top stalking and dangerous.
If her Mom will not call the police, if it were me I would have her come over and I would call them and ask an officer come take a report. If you don't want to do that tell the girl to talk to a trusted teacher about the boy. Or call the school and talk to the police liasion officer or princpal. Hopefully, they can convince the girl to file a report.

This is a totally messed up, dysfunctional situation. This girl's mother is MAKING her a victim and encouraging this boy's inappropriate attention.

I would encourage the girl to be very firm with her boundaries. Do not give this boy and indication that she likes him. Say "no, thank you," when he asks for her company, and "please leave me alone" when he's lurking. Avoid the boy as much as possible and do not pay him attention.

To the mom of this girl, I hope you read these and see that you need to protect your daughter and give her the power to say no to unwelcome or unwanted attention. Is this what you want for your daughter? To end up in a relationship with a stalker where she feels powerless to say no?

ETA: Seeing your SWH - you need to advocate for the child. Her mom is NOT helping OR protecting her daughter. If the mom refuses to do anything? Tell the daughter to go to the school counselor and talk...

If the mom has seen the son UNDER the car?? And not done anything about it?? SHE needs help. SERIOUSLY...NOT NORMAL to have someone HIDE under a car...
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uummm this sounds like stalking...

I'm curious though - where is a 14 year old allowed to drive?? I'm hoping that you mean she's in her parents car??? That he hasn't been run over is amazing...

Document everything...if you can record it...then do so. If the mother tells him to STOP contacting her and he does NOT stop? Sorry - that's stalking and charges CAN be pressed. If she makes excuses for him?? She is condoning it. When you tell someone to STOP and they don't? It's documented that you asked...and if they continue ...charges SHOULD be filed.

Stop making excuses for the kid. He needs help.

I would be concerned to the point that I might talk to the police or consider applying for a restraining order.

JMO.

What Fuzzy, Laurie, and TF/Plano (and everyone else) said.

NO, this is not normal teen angst behavior and YES, I would be concerned if it was directed at my daughter. It looks like the mother needs to be sat down with her daughter and an outside/neutral party so her daughter can express exactly how she feels about this boy's actions and the outside party can give the mother a reality check. He needs some strong lessons about appropriate behavior as well as some ongoing mental health support, probably. The gal needs to feel safe again.

SO not normal. It doesn't sound like the mother is going to do the right thing, even if you show her this. She isnt listening to her daughter or to you, why would she listen to a bunch of strangers from the internet? Encourage the girl to talk to her school counselor, her pastor, her teacher and then let these unbiased, unrelated, neutral PROFESSIONALS talk to the mother.

UPDATED:
Posted the below just before your SWH was posted. This mom is blinded by her friendship for the boy's mom. I can't believe the girl is forced to be in programs with this boy. I would wager that the boy's mom sees none of her angel's behaviors so he won't get the mental help he needs.

Do you think you can convince your friend, the mom of the girl, to show the boy's mom the DAILY e-mails he is sending? I am not sure why the girl's mom doesn't see that level of e-mail to an adult as very lopsided and indicative of a total lack of boundaries.

Put yourself between him and her every chance you get. You were right to do so earlier.

I am actually really worried for this girl who is being forced to endure what must be daily, stomach-churning anxiety. What next, will her mom make her start dating this boy when she's deemed old enough?

Original:
Besides total agreement with every single post below saying his behavior is abnormal and VERY disturbing: A couple of questions:

Are these two kids in the same school? Is that where they encounter each other, or are they not in the same school but the boy is...what? In the same church or youth group or just a neighborhood kid?....

Does the girl trust you enough, and is she angered or upset enough with her parents' total lack of support, that she would listen to you if you encouraged her to go to her school counselor and/or principal about this?

Yes, that is going around the parents. And a lot of folks would feel that's wrong. But it's not wrong to pull a kid out of the path of a speeding car; and that's the equivalent of what's happening here, to me -- this girl is in serious trouble and her parents don't even see what's about to hit her if she's not pulled out the way of this disturbed boy.

If you can, strongly encourage her to see the counselor. You may have to tell her, "I know you are freaked out because you told me so, and I believe you. You are old enough to know your own instincts and I want you to consider seeing the counselor on Monday whether or not you want to involve your parents in that. But if you feel you need to protect yourself, protect yourself, and that starts with telling the counselor. The counselor WILL keep it confidential."

Please be aware: If and when the parents find out you could end up being cut off by them. You may not know if they are the kind who would actually discipline the girl if she goes to a counselor or principal -- good heaven, I sure hope not. But you say they are adults you "respect a lot" -- why, for goodness' sake? Unless the girl has a history of lying like crazy to get their attention -- why are they not believing their own child?

I have a 13-year-old and if a boy exhibited this behavior toward her and about her, we would LONG since have been in the school office and every teacher in school would know to keep him the heck away from her.

If the boy and girl in this case aren't in the same school -- I am not sure what you can do other than tell her you believe and support her, and maybe try to be present when there are outings that involve this boy along with the girl. Church social? Neighborhood do?

Please update us here. As a mom of a middle school girl I find this worrying. A friend of my daughter's has had some issues with a boy being very weird about her and that was not anywhere near what you describe -- and still we were all on alert and ensuring that adults and the school knew to keep an eye on that boy. There is much more reason in this case you describe.

Here's another vote for not normal behavior.

I find this situation disturbing too.

NOT normal at all. Honestly, my mind has this boy taking a gun to school and taking it out on all who is involved. I too would involve the police now for stalking and threatening behavior.

I vote: not normal.
Stalker behavior.
There are just people in this world that are imbalanced and need help.
Is he off of his medication (if he's on any at all)?

You've gotten some expert advice below: document.

The specific actions toured describing with this boy could be a kid unsure what to do with what he's feeling, could be a personality disorder, bipolar, OCD, etc. we're not mental health professionals but I hope this kid gets some sort of help from an expert: school counselor, therapist, psychologist.
Maybe if the girls parents brought this to the attention of the school guidance counselor it would get the ball rolling?

Yes, this worries me a lot and I don't even know the girl. He is clearly stalking her. While there are stalking laws, I don't think he needs the police to intervene at this point, but someone should talk to him and explain that if someone is not interested, you have to move on.

As for the young girl, someone should talk to her and let her know that she doesn't have to put up with this. I don't understand why any mother would dismiss this as a normal crush. Where is this poor girls support?

yeah, he sounds like a kid who needs some help, and the girl needs to be supported in keeping a healthy distance.
it sounds weird to me that any parent would *insist* that their 14 year old girl remain in email contact with another kid, or be forced to sit next to ANYONE. a more helpful and realistic parenting choice would be to support her when her natural instincts tell her to stay away.
not sure what to do when it's someone else's kid, though, short of opening up the subject and hoping they'll discuss it.
khairete
S.

The girl's mom is the type that can't deal with any type of conflict. Anything that may cause discomfort, or rock the status quo, she diminishes, ignores and hopes will just go away.

I think this girl's mom needs to either discontinue running the groups at her home and involving her daughter in those groups immediately, thereby eliminating any occasion she and this boy are forced to be together. OR if she really must run the groups, and her daughter must participate, she should stop allowing that boy to participate based on his inappropriate behaviors.

The girl's mom needs to be tactful and non-judgmental yet present the facts to her friend, his Mom, that this situation is not acceptable and cannot continue.

He emails her Mom daily? I have daughters and if any boy peer of theirs emailed me like that, I would make it very clear, that is inappropriate. It's creepy and not normal. Why would he have email contact with her at all? Good grief that Mom should be blocking him. And telling his Mom it needs to stop. Makes me wonder if there isn't a whole lot more harassment online from him directed at the girl. A lot of kids do not even tell about cyber-harassment for fear they will get their devices taken away, so they suffer in silence. Sometimes deteriorating into very serious health and safety issues.

This girl's mom has no idea and no courage to set appropriate boundaries for the situation.

If Mom refuses to acknowledge the problem, and I was that girl, I'd be so mad I would shut myself in my room and disengage from group activity, quit and find someplace else to be at those times. If her Mom won't support her, where is her Dad? other relatives? Surely there has to be other trusted adults that can step in and get through to her Mom that things can't continue on like nothing is wrong, because there is something very wrong.

She can still have compassion for the boy and her friend and support her daughter in seeing that appropriate boundaries are being set.

This is such a bizarre story, A.. This mother isn't just oblivious. She's dangerous to her child. I will tell you point blank that I'd be talking to social services about this because the mother is forcing her daughter to be stalked. I'd put it just that way. This is a tragedy waiting to happen. Yeah, show her MY response. My response is that she will realize the mistake she has made when this boy hurts her daughter. This is NOT normal teen boy angst. It matters NOT ONE WIT if this "mood" is unrelated to the girl. She is his focus. And what the heck is the mother emailing with him every day? WHAT?

Two years ago, you had a neighbor 12 year old boy who wouldn't leave you alone and hurt your son. Is this the same kid?

If it was my daughter, she would not be around a 15 year who acts like that.

I have 15 year old son, if he acted like that there would much happening to work out the issues. But then again my son knows better. Could this be a kid with severe entitlement issues as well. An only or parents who just give all?

That's harassment if she has told him to leave her alone. And should be documented and taken to the police. This boy doesn't seem to be all there. If she has not told him to leave her alone she needs to

This is crazy stalker behavior. Hiding under the car? Seriously? Stabbing a water bottle? This is NOT normal. I have a boy and girl. If my son was behaving like this I would get him in therapy ASAP. If this was my daughter, I would have talked to his parents and if nothing happened, I would talk to the police.

My daughter started receiving obscene phone calls. She was in college at the time. The calls were graphic and horrible. She was scared to death. We contacted the police and we discovered the calls were coming from a phone number in Kentucky. The phone was a pay as you go phone so we couldn't find out who owed the phone. However, we did have an idea and got the word out that the police were involved and that when we find the person they would be prosecuted. We were lucky, the calls stopped. We suspect it was an old boyfriend who had tried to rekindle their relationship which our daughter was not interested in. He was very upset. She was in her early 20s. I can't imagine how this 14 year old feels especially since her mother isn't protecting her.

I would do ANYTHING for my kids and the fact that her MOTHER doesn't seem to think this is a problem is delusional. Her mom will be the mother sobbing on camera after her daughter is killed saying "I had no idea, I can't believe he would hurt her. He loved her". blah blah blah.

Long and short, the boy has a problem that needs to be addressed. This young girl needs to be protected from him. Her mother needs a wake up call and needs to understand that her inaction is jeopardizing her daughter's safety. This is serious and needs to be addressed NOW!!

Good luck!!! I really feels sorry for the 14 year old girl.