For some reason I have certain triggers in getting frustrated and debating. Does anyone else have these? Don't get M. wrong I'm in debate mode 75% of the time in a friendly way. I J. like debating, it's how my brain works in a sense. If someone says something and my brain finds an exception I have an inner need to point out the exception. My teachers in school always called M. "what if". It's funny my daughter has now picked this up. In all of these circumstances I am never frustrated or upset, I J. like pointing out the exceptions and playing devils advocate. It's the one trait my dad passed to M. that I am ok with and happy that it's a part of M..
Anyway, there is one issue if brought up by my boyfriend, and pretty much only by him, that sets M. off in a debate where I actually feel upset inside. I don't get upset and change the way I speak or get angry but I have a need to keep arguing the subject and make it a pi$$ing match in some sorts.
The topic is his cousins parents. He's very close to his cousins (they grew up in another state but he got close with them around 10 years ago whn he was 20) and he always goes on and on about how their dad is a jerk and was never there for them. This irks M. for some reason. I wasn;t there. He may well have been but all of the stories are J. of a wealthy man who interacted with his kids but forgets birthdays now that their adults until he's reminded, and travels for work alot but does fly back for celebrations, birthdays...now that they are adults but not super involved.
He'll go on telling M. how much of jerk their dad is and how he feels bad for them, and for some reason this makes M. feel annoyed. IDK why. It kind of feels like by complaining to M. about their wealthy but not super involved dad and wanting M. to feel bad for them that he's discounting the fact that my dad was a physically and verbally abusive alcoholic dad. I know this holds no actual logic to it. IDK why I can;t J. agree and say I'm sorry your uncle makes you feel that way, but as soon as he brings up the topic is J. hits a nerve. I start arguing (not yelling, J. stating opinions more or less) that I would've killed for a dad who financially supported M. and went to special occassions and sports games that wasnt completely wasted and who didn't hit my mom and my brother and I. That I would have enjoyed not having my brother defend M. with a knife to my dad to get him to not attack M. at times. It makes M. start debating how, yes their dad may have been not super involved and sounds like he;s not winning any awards, but he doesnt sound like a complete jerk. He provided for them financially was at events but J. wasn't super involved and close to them. This by no means makes him a monster that you portay him to be. Why am I defending this guy? I mean I don't even know him but I'm holding my dad up as a standard and essentially saying, their dad is great because he wasn;t my dad? Seriously do I have to get any more woe is M.?
It's odd because I don't feel bad for myself or my childhood...I came out ok, and am thankful that I am who I am and have my daughter to love.
In my head I get they are two seperate issues and that by him stating he thinks his uncle is a jerk doesn;t mean he thinks they deserve this perfect dad and that he;s fine with M. having the one I have. I completely understand the two are seperate issues, but when the topic is bought up I don't. I don't get it at that time. At that time I feel like he;s almost saying, it's ok that you had all of that happen to you, and I feel bad for my cousins who didn't get more hugs.
Does anyone have any similar triggers and how do you get over them?
Anyone have any advice. I don't like feeling like this. It almost makes M. embarassed and ashamed of myself for feeling this way. I feel narcisistic when I start to discount his feelings towards his cousins dad and make it about M..
Victoria as for your ETA- Thats completely it! You nailed it. Thats exactly how I feel when thinking about it
Riley- you described my families debating perfectly=) I completey get what you're saying about using that to see the other's side. Thats what I do for everyone else when they talk to M., so why not use it for M.? If I do, I can think of a zillino reasons he'd feel bad for them, but I still think the main issue i face is jealousy in regards to this aspect. I can see why he'd say their dad was a jerk and feel bad, I J. somehow feel like him saying that is him wanting better for them then M....not logical but how i'm made to feel at that moment in time
Lucy I completely get what you're saying. I;m sorry you both had rough childhoods. I could;t imagine going through what you did=( For some reason its the perfect storm for M.. If it was his father I'd have sympathy and not argue, but because it's him saying how bad he feels for someone else it does get to M.. Also I have forgive my father, as far as I am able to understand forgiveness, this emotion I have doesnt mak M. upset thinkig about my father it somehow hurts M. in regards t my boyfriend if that makes sense? No idea why thats the combo it takes. I have several friends who will vent about parents or childhood and I never make it the competition then, J. this scenario with him feeling bad for someone else for some reason.
I notice that I, too, love to debate--but it is usually when my life is in a depressing state. When I am happy--I debate less.
It makes sense why you react that way. If I were unable to conceive a child, I'd get supremely offended if a woman complained about daily 'annoyances' from her multiple children. It's kind of like that. I think perhaps your husband should be sensitive about where you are coming from and agree to disagree, and perhaps not bring it up again to you. A father who was present on any level would sound better to you than the one you had. And let's face it, there are worse things than a father who traveled a lot and forgets birthdays occasionally. What about military Dads? They're gone a lot, but that doesn't mean they aren't good Dads.
On an unrelated note, I'd work on the need to be combative. There's a time and place for it. I find people like that (my younger brother is like this) to be quite exhausting. Sometimes I like to be entitled to my thoughts without justifying them to anybody. I think everybody should have that liberty.
Have a great day!
You are very insightful about why this bothers you, and it would probably bother most people in a similar situation.
Maybe you should J. tell your bf not to bring that topic up any more, because even though it's probably true that the guy wasn't the greatest father, he still sounds way better than your dad, so you don't want to hear about it. That's like a supermodel complaining about her extra 10 lbs. to someone obese.
He should be able to agree not to bring up the subject any more. There are millions of other things you guys can talk about.
I get it. He says this was a bad dad and you're thinking - cry M. a freakin river, they don't know what "bad dad" means! I used to need to play the bad childhood card until I realized everyone has something to complain about. "My dad was rich and detached, my dad was poor and didnt give M. opportunities, my mom was neglectful, my mom was over protective." lol it never ends.
He isn't actually devaluing your experience, it J. feels that way. And you already have that part figured out. Good for you for being so self aware.
My triggers? Mine are mostly political, honestly. I get heated when someone claims ownership of the flag, the Constitution, or patriotism. Please don't tell M. I'm not patriotic and dont support the troops because I think we should be more careful which wars we get into. Also, welfare bashers. I was able to go to college and earn a degree while living on section 8 housing and recieving food stamps. I now pay plenty of taxes! When people go all batty about thier tax dollars going to welfar queens collecting $158 a month, yet they have no issue with the robber barons at the top skimming millions off the top, it gets very personal for M. very quickly.
Well, sounds like you have fairly well analyzed the situation and figured out the reason why this one subject actually does upset you inside. You said at the top of your post that you didn't know why this one subject does it, but you actually DO know why. You J. don't think it is a legitimate reason, apparently. But you are wrong. It IS a legitimate reason for you to feel upset.
No, every other person's parenting can't be measured by the standard of your Dad. You are correct. But, why don't you J. explain to your BF, exactly what you did to us here? That you would have killed for a dad that was only as "bad" as his uncle. J. tell him, he is fine to have the opinion that he does, but would he please not talk about it TO YOU, because the only comparison you have is one that is MUCH MUCH worse, and it makes you feel _______. Tell him you know that "logically" he isn't comparing his uncle to your dad, but that your childhood and the dad you dealt with is part of WHO YOU ARE, and J. because it might not be logical, doesn't mean it doesn't affect you.
You don't want to defend the uncle, because you don't know him, but nothing he has said is as bad as what you had for a dad, and he doesn't go around defending YOU that your dad was awful and you should have had better.
Maybe he will be more sensitive to your history and your feelings on this. I hope so. You deserve that much.
Don't feel bad for who you are or what you have experienced. It wasn't your fault. And it does affect how you react to other things. You are aware of this, so don't feel guilt over it. J. explain it, so your BF understands it.
Blessings!
ETA: After your SWH: It sounds like it is because he is your boyfriend. Your other friends aren't. Simple really---he is supposed to be your defender. Maybe sounds antiquated, but no matter what the current "I can take care of myself" thoughts are---we almost all have a little of the "this is how it 'should' be" in our subconscious. And your boyfriend SHOULD be your defender. When he defends his cousin, and not you... it hurts.
I think I understand what you mean.
There are people whop do seem to constantly be in "victim" mentality.
My father was an abusive alcoholic as well, and while I realize our family was (maybe still is) dysfunctional, I don't feel defined by that past or handicapped by it in any way.
Once we hit adulthood it's time to GET OVER IT.
Recovering alcoholics/addicts are usually WAY less forgiving about blaming the past that most people are so used to blaming for their condition.
There's you (not "you" per se) and there's the world. Deal. With the good and the bad, right?
Parents are people. There are good people and bad people.
I don't make my "bad" father an excuse for my life or my actions.
But some people....eh....they get stuck. And stay there.
Sometimes people are suckers for a convenient excuse to NOT grow up.
Okay... First off...
My ENTIRE FAMILY is J. like you (including M.). Dead horses? Pshaw! No such thing!!! We may still be able to beat some interesting stuff out of them yet! And then there's the dissection, tanning, gluemaking, etc. Nothing is ever 'laid to rest' in my family of origin. Heck even the sun rising the next morning prompts debate. You know, because it doesn't always rise in the same place, eclipses, time zones... you name it and we can start laughing and waving our arms around debating it.
Seriously. Combine a ton of scientists + children = questions/"arguments" from breakfast to bedtime. It's not acrimonious... it's J. that that fully flushing out a thing is a beauty in and of itself, and it's good mental exercise, besides.
The ONLY way I can hold my tongue, is to make their argument for them in my own head.
Okay, lets take my argument and table it for a moment. I need an image. Heartbroken kid. Always a good one. Okay... where to run from there?
I would SUSPECT that your boyfriend is trying to mental map out the kind of dad he wants to be. Because we have the obvious 'Hail No!' option (physical & verbal & sexual abusers). Okay, now lets climb up the ladder to slightly better. Neglect. And another rung? The skater. Never in their kids' lives at all. In timbuktu as far as anyone knows. Okay. Next rung up.
Keep climbing up the run until we meet the more-absorbed-in-his-work-and-making-money-dad-to-be-counted-on-and-regularly-breaks-his-promises-so-that-by-the-time-my-kids-are-grown-I-am-neither-friend/mentor/hero... but someone, who through a death of a thousand cuts of LITTLE things destroyed my children's trust in M..
Looked at THAT way, it's actually a good thing. It's boyfriend trying to determine the STYLE that he can respect/agree with/ model after.
Could I be wrong? Sure.
But that's how I hold my tongue. I turn the problem on its ear and try to look at it as if I were making the argument MYSELF. Not with their wording (biggest jerk ever has flaws so big you could drive a truck through them; abusers, neglectuful, etc.)... but why *I* might make that same argument.
Then, usually, if I make that argument TO that person, they're like "Yeah. Of course. What did you THINK I was saying???"
Headsmack.
Pardon M. for actually listening to what you were saying. Which has flaws big enough to play football on. ((I keep that part to myself as well ;))
Your Boyfriend J. is venting about this. Everyone has things, that they may talk about repeatedly... because it bothers them or they think about it a lot or need to etc. For whatever reason.
And your Boyfriend is close to his cousins. He is empathizing with them, and it bothers him about their Dad. He grew up in that family, you did not.
Everyone has a different family life that they grew up in.
Your Boyfriend, is not looking for solutions or answers, he is J. venting. And doesn't need a "debate" about it.
Sometimes, a person J. needs to talk and have a shoulder.
He doesn't expect you, to be like him, or to feel like him, nor is he "comparing" you to them or your Dad to theirs, nor is he "discounting" you... and how you grew up. He is J. talking, about HIS feelings.
It is not a debate.
Some people talk about things, because it helps them.... process it. And because you are his Girlfriend, he talks to you.... about personal and confidential things.
Would you rather have your Boyfriend... go and tell all of this to someone else, instead???? Since he knows it irks you?
I have a Husband, who by culture and personality and how he grew up... likes to "debate" things. I do too. BUT... there is a place and a time for that. Not everything, has to be debated. And it takes, self-awareness to realize that.
For example: Sometimes, I J. want to talk and vent and J. express my feelings about something to my Husband... and NOT have him: debate it, or tell M. I am wrong, nor "compete" about him versus my feelings, or have him give M. HIS solutions for it. I J. want to talk. Like how I would to a friend. Nothing is wrong with that. But if/when he gets in his "debate" mode, about something that *I* am needing to J. vent or ruminate or ponder about, then I do not want to talk to him. Because it is not, fulfilling.... to talk to someone else who J. has to "debate" about everything and pick everything apart to its minute pieces.
A topic, can be picked apart until it is J. shredded little pieces, when a person has to debate all the time about J. any conversation. OR.... a person can allow... a person to J. talk, because they need to and because they are confiding in you and "needing" you there for them.
THAT is not the time... to debate or analyze every little reason, why that person is feeling the way they do or their opinion. They J. need you... there for them. As a partner. And as a confidante.
But if the partner or spouse always has to "debate" everything or discount everything the other is saying or feeling... then after awhile, that person may not want to even tell you how they feel anymore.
Because, the "Debater" makes them feel insignificant.
As I said, my Husband can be like that too. Debater extraordinaire. But, there is a time and a place for that. And certainly when it is done all the time to your partner or spouse, it can get very old, very fast, and very irritating. So... I have had to talk to my Husband about that, many times. He is better about it now. He actually will try and EMPATHIZE with M. now and actually LET M.... have my say and my feelings about things.
That is, learning how to be there, for the other person.
Not about debating or who is right or wrong or picking things apart constantly.
It takes... practice.
Then, you have a different childhood experience with your own Dad. Which is separate from your Boyfriend's cousin's Dad. So be it. We all have different lives and different things that we are from.
Everyone has "triggers" that irk them or spin them into a debate about.
But, being there FOR our partner, instead of letting it control us or affect our partner, is the difficult thing, to learn.
Not everything has to be a debate. Nor a competition.
You said that you are not that way with your friends. Only with your Boyfriend... and when he feels bad for someone else.
So then that is your, issue.
Maybe you actually want him to feel bad for you... in the same way. Even if you say your emotions about your own Father does not make you upset.
But maybe the *vulnerable* "little girl" in you, is still bothered about it and your childhood. Maybe you feel somewhere, that no one ever felt bad for you.
And that bugs you. And now with your Boyfriend.
Being there for one's partner, takes practice.
It takes practice, to be present for our significant other... while not getting hung up on our own issues that are tangled up with it.
Does your boyfriend acknowledge that you had it bad as well? Or does he only seem to think his cousins have it rough? Are you looking for him to say wow you had it worse than them?
I do know what you mean about things bothering you like. My husband's parents were fairly old when they passed away and sometimes I think my SIL is still I can't believe it, etc. And I get that you are never ready for it, but since my father died when he was J. 34, sometimes I feel like saying well at least he saw you graduate, get married, etc. I don't say it, but I do think it.
