Seeking Understanding: I Don't Understand the Vaccine Debate

My oldest son has autism, and since we've been doing vaccine clearings, he has improved quite a bit.

My second son has had vaccines as well and is doing fine.

My daughter was supposed to get a Hepatitis B shot on the day she was born. I declined because Hepatitis B is transmitted through bodily fluids (primarily through sexual contact and contaminated breast milk). She is too young for sexual contact, and I do not have the disease. So I declined.

I believe that vaccines are a good thing, but that some people can react to vaccines. I was told that people who have a family history of asthma and allergies already have overblown reactions to common household or environmental stimuli, so they tend to have greater reactions to vaccines. That makes sense to me.

I also believe that we as parents need to do the research to determine which vaccines are necessary. My daughter will not get the Hepatitis B vaccine, at least not yet. She will not get the chicken pox vaccine. There are others that she will get, but it will be on a shot-by-shot basis.

That is the way I see it.

I believe in vaccinations. and have my son vacinated at every age mark as suggested. I do believe that some things should be fought off by the body so that it can build the immune system up. I have noticed over the years how certain diseases that had been almost wiped out have reared their ugly heads as more and more people choose not to vaccinate. I had relatives that died in the 1920's that died of whooping cough and haven't heard of it again until now. autism just showed up in abundance in the last 10 years but everyone else born pre the 2000's pretty much are ok. so i really don't think vaccines have anything to do with autism. these are just my opinions. i believe vaccines should be given.

This is the religious reason why people abstain from vaccines.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components...

Yes, the immune system becomes stronger when exposed to things. However, the effects (such as death and disability) of certain illnesses are not worth getting, so that is why we have vaccines. There are enough, less-severe viruses and bacteria on the planet to keep our immune systems strong (over 300 cold viruses, for example).

All the conclusions you reached in your first paragraph are correct. To paraphrase something I once hear Dr. Dean Edell say about this topic -- it is much easier to instill fear in people than to eradicate it once it's there. That is why, despite the debunking of Andrew Wakefield's study, the vaccine myth continues.

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There are some parents that just do not trust Doctors and the medical profession for whatever reason. The question I always ask is, "Are you willing to admit you are the reason your child becomes ill if they are not vaccinated?"

This last month I caught whooping cough. I was so ill, all I wanted to be able to do was to be able to take a breath. I could only breath at about 1/4 of my normal capacity. It was horrible and I cried thinking about infants and small children who must have suffered terribly when they had whooping cough.

I caught this because I have not had a Td (tetanus and diphtheria) vaccine in 10 years. I thought I had a Tetanus shot during this time, but I was mistaken when asked a few years back at a hospital.

We are very fortunate to live in a time when we can prevent illnesses and death of our children. Make informed decisions. Always follow your mommy heart and brain.. No regrets.

I chose not to vaccinate my two daughters, now 10 and 4 and both very healthy. Please read Dr Jay Gordon's website: drjaygordon.com. He was my elder daughter's pediatrician while we lived in LA, He makes a lot of sense and speaks out against the way we vaccinate newborns in this country (we are inundating their systems too young with too many vaccinations at once.) He is a wonderful physican, knows the research so well, and is one of the only western medical main-stream doctors speaking out nationally from the middle ground of the debate.

As to how we came to our decision, it was not a black/white process. Whether or not --or really, for us, HOW to vaccinate a child is a complicated issue and one my husband and I have decided to 'go with the gut' on after looking at the evidence --both scientific and anecdotal. In addition to Dr Gordon's concern about the aggressive nature of immunization scheduling, it is the preservatives in vaccines (yes the mercury is gone, but there are plenty others which are arguably just as bad --like aluminum); almost NO LONG TERM RESEARCH on vaccinations --unbelievable, but true; the lack of regulation of the CDC (who are basically policing themselves); and the stories thousands of people who watched helplessly as their small children change irreversibly hours after receiving a vaccination --including some of our relatives and friends -- this gave us pause.

Are there risks with our decision? Sure. Did our parents survive whooping cough and the mumps? Yep. There are risks on BOTH sides of the issue and you have to decide how much you are going to trust the large institutions running the show. If we travel with our children to Africa or India, will we vaccinate them against hepatitis and such? Yes. Now that they are older, we will research what we need for traveling to the remote places. As for tetnus, I've spoken to at least three doctors on the subject and now understand that unless you are walking around barefoot in horse manure with an open puncture wound, it is very difficult to contract.

Though she was not speaking about this topic, I believe what Helen Keller applies here: "Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure; the fearful are caught as often as the bold."

There is a graveyard behind my house that is filled with children who died at the turn of the century of things for which we now vaccinate.

There are risks to anything in life. Just being alive is a risk. I believe the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks.

My kids are vaccinated and have always been very healthy -- just like the non-vaccinators claim their kids are. Except their kids can get polio when they're 20. Mine cannot.

I completely agree with you!! I'm a Nurse, but even before I became one, I've always been around in the medical field. If a parent feels the need to spread out vaccines - fine... but do not NOT give them!! Not only are they setting their children up for a possible disaster or death - as well as their whole family, but also every other child they come into contact with.

***ADDED***

1) the chicken pox vaccine not only makes it much less likely for a child - or an adult - to get chicken pox, it also protects them from shingles. If you GET the chicken pox - regardless of what age - you are predisposed to getting shingles. As a Nurse, I've seen the horrible complications, life long pain and even brain/nerve damage that has happened because of a shingles outbreak.

2) The term "herd immunity" isn't a meaningless term. If 100% of a population is vaccinated, that group will be more healthy in case of an outbreak from a neighboring population than a population of only 80% vaccinated. Why? Because those who are NOT vaccinated will get the disease first, then pass it in a lower severity form to those who are vaccinated. When you choose to not get your child vaccinated, you are endangering the entire child-adult-elderly population. Vaccines do not mean you cannot ever get the disease, it means your form of the disease will be greatly diluted and shorter lasting than if you were not vaccinated.

***@Cheryl***

Tree Huggers and Liberals vaccinate their children - I know I do.

Tree Huggers and Liberals are not why DDT was removed from availability - it was due to the human birth defects, severe environmental effects to water and animals and because DDT is still found in people's bodies causing long term damage. It is akin to Agent Orange.

First of all, I would suggest getting an actual pediatrician, rather than just going to a family doctor. Pediatricians have put years into specializing in children, and can focus on the recent research coming out regarding children. (Nothing against family doctors, but they have to pay attention to all the different issues and can't focus as much). Then you know you are getting the most current info. And get a ped you can trust, who listens to you, and trusts your mother's instincts.

Then, ask for the information on each vaccination. My pediatrician gives us the facts sheets on each vaccination to read before we sign the consent, even if it's the 4th round of the vaccination.

I have vaccinated my kids on the recommended schedule. I believe that vaccinations are much safer, in general, than the risks of illness. Some kids cannot have vaccinations, because of allergies to ingredients or other reasons, and they are also put at higher risk when more of their classmates are unvaccinated because of scare tactics of Dr Mercola and others. But if you have any concerns, talk to your pediatrician. (That's why you want a good one who listens to your concerns!)

HiChazzie---First, I would like to say that I am not anti-vaccine. However, I have learned that not all vaccines are necessary and some are even downright dangerous. I have a couple of resources to share so that you might do your due diligence.

Go to www.nvic.org. It is a vaccine data base that reports on problems with different vaccines. I went there and researched the menningitis vaccine for our son when he started college. We decided to decline the vaccine based on the fact that it is recommeded because students in dorms live in close proximity to each other, therefore increasing their risk of disease. According to this website, students living in dorms DO NOT get sick any more often than kids who do not live in the dorms. So, I basically feel as if I had been mislead by the pharmaceutical companies.

You asked the question about the immune system being stronger as it is exposed to viruses/bacteria. That is true. The immune system builds better/stronger immunity when it fights the actual disease. I work with a Naturopath who has her PhD and she has shared research on this topic. Case in point...chicken pox. CP is really mostly a nuisance when contracted as a child. Right now, they really don't know how many boosters kids will need of the CP vaccine as it appears, after some time now, that one dose does not impart immunity. If adults, vaccinated as children, were to contract CP, it could be deadly.

I also have information on research about the HPV vaccine. Mostly it has to do with cost to benefit ratio. This vaccine protects against only 3 of over 100 HP viruses. Most cases of HPV resolve on their own.

Another theory that has been brought forward is that we are simply giving WAY TOO MANY vaccines at one time. One of the 3 Dr. Sears pediatricians, www.askDrSears.com, has written a book offering an alternate vaccine schedule to spread them out a bit. My theory...who knows what might happen to a particularly vulnerable child when given so many vaccines at once.

What is most important, vaccine or no vaccine, is the status of the immune system itself. A strong, healthy immune system will take care of us. Unfortunately, diet and lifestyle habits, over the past couple of generations, have led to most people having compromised immune systems. We need to eat real food, fruits and veggies, whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds, while minimizing animal protein. A healthy diet will consist of 90% of calories from plants. And, as a reformed milk drinker, I recommend to eliminate cows milk. I know, but please explore www.pcrm.org, put diary in the search box to learn why. The whole website is full of valuable nutrition information, based on long-term research. (Any time you research a topic, look for LONG-TERM research. This is one of the problems with the newer vaccines on the market today...not studied long enough. Remember margarine? It was supposed to be the answer to a healthier life. That didn't work out very well, did it? We now know that it causes heart disease and is likely worse than butter for our health.)

I would be happy to share my resources so that you might make the most informed decision possible. Good luck. D.

PS. About the autism/Wakefield debate. Dr. Wakefield NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. What he found was that kids with autism have digestive/gut issues. They have also found that some kids develop issues with the gut after the MMR vaccine. He then stated that this association requires additional study. If anyone would take the time to read his original report, they would know that Dr. Wakefield is being railroaded and unjustly criminalized for his research. I will send anyone info on that if you'd like. Be well.

Vaccines cause many things from epilepsy to emotional damage. Several months ago a friend of mine's 13 year old unvaccinated son had a minor accident. She agreed to tetanus shots while they were sewing him up. Then she went out of the ER to see about her other two children.
In the hospital without telling her they gave him a DPT shot. SInce that time this star student is failing in everything. DPT is a very dangerous thing. It's too much at once for a body to absorb.
Imagine if you were exposed to three heavy diseases all at one time. That is what we are doing to our children.
As a result children develop allergies that are serious or other seemingly unrelated conditions.
Every year there are around 88 cases of polio from live vaccine. If you do want to vaccinate against polio which has nearly been irraticated do so with the killed vaccine and make certain you are very clear with your doctor about this.
Why vaccinate against measles, or for that matter chicken pox when these are known to be minor diseases we gain life long immunity from having. Not so with the vaccine.
If you are really interested in the literature on vaccination go to a homeopathic book site and buy a few of the books on vaccination.
Have you ever thought that perhaps the teenage diabetes and extreme overweight amongst young people could have as the underlying cause the excessive vaccinating against every conceivable disease.
And why am I so informed. I nearly lost my daughter when she was 2 years old to measles vaccine.
BIG PHARMA is making invalids of us. When we fight off diseases we do become stronger.

It is widelly known that Dr. Andrew Wakefield wrote an article that linked the MMR Vaccine to Autism. From there, it was mass hysteria the following decade and severe decrease in immunizations of all kinds. Last year, it came out that Dr. Wakefield RECANTED his assertions - read http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/research/03lance... or any other publication with the same news- the link is unfounded completely and there is no link at all- no evidence to support any negative effects to a vaccine. In fact, the more I've spoken to doctors, done my own research, the more I find a rise in diseases that were once completely eradicated such as Whopping Cough due to a large enough amount of people who are deciding NOT to vaccinate. As a result, more people are getting sick. I knew of someone personally, with two children, a 6 year old and a baby. The six year old was at a friend's house who had an older brother, who was never vaccinated for Whopping Cough, and was a carrier, but apparently not affected. The six year old caught the illness and then gave it to her baby sister who almost died of it. This never would have happened if people took the standard vaccinations. It's fine if one or two don't get it, but too many out there are thinking it's so "personal" that those people are putting everyone else in danger of cathing deadly illnesses that have been treated and forgotten. Do we want to bring back the Black Plague or other illnesses of the last century when we can be vaccinated and avoid them completely? By not vaccinating your child, you and others are putting, not just youselves, but everyone else at risk. If your baby is not vaccinated, I'd be VERY careful who you expose to her or him. There's absolutely NO reason not to trust what every doctor in the world would tell you to do and what every caring mother would do: to protect your child, as well as others. I didn't spend a second's thought on it for each of my three children who are all very healthy and happy children. Best wishes for yours!

There is absolutely no scientific research that validates the notion that vaccines cause Autism. Autism is a neurologically-based "syndrome" which means that it is a compilation of symptoms and those characteristics tend to run in families (heritable).

Vaccines are good because they protect your child from contracting illnesses, but they also prevent the spread of communicable diseases.

We vaccinated our son. I was vaccinated. My husband was vaccinated. Our parents, siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews were vaccinated. My nephew died as a result of a doctor administering a vaccination that was clearly marked DO NOT ADMINISTER TO A CHILD WITH A HISTORY OF SEIZURES. The doctor's negligence resulted in my nephew's death, not the vaccine itself.

The harmful ingredient in vaccines (thermisol) was removed from the vaccines over a decade ago.

People believe what they read on the web, but if you take the time to actually read the legal and medical research (part of my graduate thesis), there is absolutely no documentation of a causal relationship between vaccinations and the onset of Autism.

Autism is not "exploding off the map"- we (clinical field) are far more accurate and broad in our diagnostic practice. Talk with people who work with this population every day and they will tell you that there aren't more kids with Autism, but we certainly call more "traits" Autistic. Quirky kid? Nope, on the spectrum. Trouble processing sensory info? Nope, no the spectrum.

A century ago, these "on the spectrum kids" were diagnosed with Early Onset Schizophrenia, Psychosis or Mania and locked away. It's actually quite sad when you study the complete history of childhood disorders. Many children were taken from their families and institutionalized b/c we didn't understand Autism (and the related disorders) and there were very few medications available- just those that put children into a borderline comatose state.

My favorite resource, which I didn't see listed here, is NVIC.org. In my opinion, they do a good job presenting you will both sides of the issue. Their objective is to provide you with the facts to make an INFORMED decision. They have a list of all the diseases, vaccines, statistics, and also something called the V.A.E.R.S (I might have spelled that wrong). Anyhow, it's the database that lists every single reaction to a vaccine. I actually read through some of it one night and it's very sad.
In my opinion, if I could do things differently, I wouldnt of vaccinated my son right away. He's had most of his vaccines, but I didn't start doing research until he was one.
My main concern is voluntarily injecting his body with toxins. Some argue that you come into contact with these toxins naturally in the environment but vaccines (and said toxins) are injected directly into your bloodstream. This can't be a good thing. I do my best to provide my son with natural and organic foods and products so why would I put toxins into his system?

My argument to those who say I am putting their child in danger? Why should they be concerned if their child is vaccinated? Because vaccines aren't 100% effective. And have you heard of the whooping cough outbreaks in California and other areas? What they aren't mentioning in the mainstream media is that those infected have actually been vaccinated for it (not all but some). But they've actually discovered that it's mutating. And it will take them some time to develop a new vaccine for this new strain but continue to vaccinate for the old strain.
My last point? If I am going to vaccinate my son for anything else, I will vaccinate myself cause it doesn't make sense not to. Essentially, if you're not caught up on your vaccines, you can pass anything onto your baby yourself. Vaccines only last about 10 years. Contracting the actually virus they vaccinate you from? Life long immunity.
Good luck with your decision. It's alot to think about and kudos to you for investigating. Most parents walk blindly into their child's well check without any knowledge of what their child is about to have jabbed into them.
Knowledge is power! Congrats!

S.

Some people simply feel that the risk of the vaccines exceeds the risk of illnesses which are rarely seen in the U.S. anymore. There have been adverse reactions to all vaccines, and vaccines which are brand new and mass marketed only to be withdrawn later because they were too dangerous to continue giving. Add to that, the massive amounts given to babies at once in recent years and the thimerosal issues and I can understand why people might opt not to. I certainly didn't give my kids any vaccines that weren't on the mandatory list for public school. As for the autism thing, while the MMR may not actually cause "autism," the thimerosal containing vaccines may have contained an excessive amount of mercury for a child that small, and especially if numerous vaccines were given at once. The symptoms of mercury poisoning actually mirror the symptoms of autism.

People tend to believe what they want. You say it's not statistically accurate that vaccines cause autism when you sit down. That means you've been looking at the information that says it's not statistically accurate.
We vaccinated our first child fully, and began the second when the case with the girl came out where they had to admit she descended rapidly into autism following her vaccines. Yes, she had a pre-existing genetic condition, only known because her parents were in the medical field and she happened to be tested for that (but most people wouldn't know that for their child) but it was STILL because of the vaccines. When I started reading tons of information (and not hippy charlatan stuff but real information) it is absolutely true that vaccines in their modern forms (new preservatives to replace the mercury which DID turn out to be harmful despite the CDC's claims) and doses (more than double what I had as a kid) have not been proven to be safe or tested long term.

Thus the twisted claim that they've been "proven safe" Not true. We decided to delay until an older age for our younger two and cut out all the ones they don't need at that point (some aren't needed after age 1, and some aren't needed at all).

But as I said, my first child had all those crazy shots at once 3 times as a tiny infant, and luckily shes doing fine at 5.

To say every single child in the united states can tolerate safely that amount of vaccines at that age when there isn't any such thing as a drug every single ADULT can tolerate is silly.
So while Autism is the new mystery epidemic of OUR day, since we don't have Polio, etc, people are fearful.

As soon as they do prove "what else different than the vaccines is causing Autism to be exploding off the map" People will happily give their kids all the shots.
For starters read Dr Sears Vaccine book, and though it is not anti vaccine, it will spell out how much less likely a child is to get many of these diseases, and how easily treatable they are compared to the risks of many of the vaccines-and that's not including their cumulative effect which has not been tested.

Also, you will see the more you search (of course our medical system doesn't lay it out for us as it conflicts with their business) that as the Autism epidemic started exploding in the last decade, the vaccines had recently changed and increased.

If I were to start over, I would read the Dr. Sears vaccine book and have been more selective about what vaccines my children received and when. For example, there is no need to vaccinate a newborn against Hepatitis in the hospital when they are a few hours old. Hepatitis-B is transmitted via contaminated bodily fluids, as in sexual contact and needles. And yet all children, even those born to mothers without Hep-B and with no risk factors, are vaccinated at birth. Why?

What bugs me about vaccines is that there is a ton of money involved and no end in sight. Pharmaceutical companies are constantly researching new vaccines and looking for new markets, and I think that it is definitely about profit and not about public health. Beyond something like an HIV vaccine, is there anything else that we really need? How many vaccines will be on the schedule by the time our children have children? How much do we think we can tinker with something as complex and poorly-understood as the human immune system before we screw something up? Is injecting toxins and preservatives into our tiny babies' bloodstream REALLY safe? Where are the double-blind placebo-controlled studies that compare vaccinated and unvaccinated populations? Oh that's right, there aren't any! Why don't we apply the "gold standard" of testing to something as far-reaching and important as rolling out new immunizations? Why do new vaccines get tested on adults, then get rolled out to children (Gardasil, for example - tested on grown women, but marketed to girls as young as 9).

And I love how everyone says "I was vaccinated and I'm just fine." How do you really know? How do we know that auto-immune diseases such as fibromyalgia, MS, chronic fatigue syndrome, Lupus, RA etc. aren't related to the toxins we got as children? How about infertility, allergies, asthma, and inflammatory diseases such as cardiovascular problems, diabetes, etc.?

For the record, my kids were all vaccinated. Three are neuro-typical, one has ADHD and learning disabilities. My youngest was vaccinated mostly one at a time, and way behind schedule, but the others were on the standard schedule. So far, only one has had a negative reaction, and that was cellulitis following a chicken pox booster. I'm grateful that my kids were OK after their shots, but I held my breath each time and just felt like we were playing Russian roulette, waiting for a bad reaction. I am not anti-vaccinations, but I do think that we need to ask more questions, be more informed, and give our children only what we decide that they need, when it is safest to give it to them.

We've followed the typical vaccine schedule with our daughter after reading both sides of the debate. However, we chose not to do the flu vaccine nor will we do the chickenpox vaccine when it's offered. I try to avoid over medicating her and I feel those last two are superfluous. The flu vaccine only protects you from a few strains that are out there and the chickenpox is a virus I would prefer she have when she's younger rather than as an adult. I have been advised by doctors that I'm endangering the life of my child by not vaccinating her against the flu, but the whole "dead baby" argument turns me off. There are lots of things you can do to avoid getting the flu or lessening its effects once you get it... why introduce something into her body she doesn't need?

I recently picked up "The Vaccine Book" by Dr. Sears and found it to be very helpful. With our first, we did all the first vaccines together, and then decided to spread the rest of them out, but there was no "method to the madness". With number 2, I'll be using Dr. Sears' modified vaccination schedule. I like the reasoning behind his "spread".

I think our immune systems need exercise like any other part of our bodies. We seem to get sick more in the first 2 years we are exposed to public places (like day care or school if kindergarten is when you start leaving home more) and then it settles down and a cold or two a year becomes the norm. But a vaccine trains your system to respond to disease without your catching it, so saying a vaccine is not as effective as getting sick and recovering is not quite right.
I think vaccines are far less dangerous than the diseases they prevent.
We are all up to date on all our shots and my son is still a straight A student.
A DTaP booster (for Diphtheria, Tetanus and Pertussis (Whooping cough) were required before my son started middle school and considering the come back whooping cough is making - I'm glad. My husband and I got booster shots, too.

Hi,
My father is a very well respected surgeon and family physician who has been in practice for over 45 years, and he does not agree with the recent schedules in vaccinations; he says the vaccines cramp the immune system of babies. He believes close attention should be paid to family history of all diseases if possible of both sides of the babie's families before vaccinations; I also don't agree with those schedules either. I have been told that pediatricians get $30 per vaccination as an incentive.
Have you ever look at the vaccine schedules in the seventies for example?
just fewer vaccines than today:
2 months: DTP, TOPV (trivalent oral polio virus)
4 months: DTP, TOPV
6 months: DTP, TOPV
1 year: Measles, TB test
1-12 years: Rubella, Mumps
1 1/2 years: DTP, TOPV
4-6 years: DTP, TOPV
At that time you had the choice of spreading them out if you wanted to.
One more interesting thing. Autism in the Amish population almost non existent!
Here are a couple of links all moms should read:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20049118-10391695.html
also check this discussion is very interesting:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/08/jb-handley-the.html
Let me be clear, I am not anti vaccine but we should ask the government and the CDC to do more research about our children safety and the ingredients on those vaccines. I vaccinated my child in a more spread out schedule.
Information and knowledge is power!
A.

If you manage to get this all figured out and know what is "true' about it PLEASE tell me!!! My 2 daughters who have children are heavily involved in this debate. One has chose not to vaccinate at all...one has chosen a delayed vaccination schedule. I MUCH prefer the delayed schedule...and I can see the reasoning behind it. She doesn't want to have all of those vaccines being injected all at once. My older daughter who has chosen not to vaccinate at this time at all....it worries me...she has done a LOT of research and feels very comfortable with her decision but it is not a decision that I would make. And of course if she ever takes her son out of the country...or he decides to join the military, teach school, dozens of other things...he is going to have to get ALL of those vaccinations anyway.

You are correct, the number of deaths from the diseases far outweigh the risks for the vaccine. Also, you are exposing other children to the disease if your child gets it. Vaccinations are a great step in protecting your child. Your immune system does become stronger with exposure to specific diseases, however, if you can create the immune response with a vaccine, your child does not have to become ill to get the immunity.

As with any disease, as we know more about it, it seems to occur more often. Autism is no different. Just because there are more diagnoses of autism does not mean that autism is more common today than it was fifty years ago. Fifty years ago, there were no real definitive diagnoses of mental disorders- they were dubbed 'lunatic' and put in an institutuion. What percentage of those people do you think were on the autism spectrum?

That said- there are risks with everything in life and I think as parents we should be aware of those risks. But as the percentage of people who choose not to vaccinate rises, I think we will find that dormant or rare diseases will start popping up again. It is basic biology. These diseases are striving to survive as much as we are. I'm not really willing to speed up that process, and I'm sure not willing to use my child as the host.

Vaccinating has its risk but I agree with you about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I choose to vaccinate.

I had many of the same questions when I was trying to get pregnant. I started doing a lot of reading and research to help myself better understand. I happened to bring up the questions one day with a colleague that I didn't know all that well and she shared a very personal story with me of vaccine injury to her 18 month old son. She sat in my office crying, telling me how her sweet baby stopped looking her in the eye, stopped saying Mama...it REALLY affected me. I dug into the research even more.

(I should mention that my gut instinct has always been to shy away from conventional medicine and turn toward, alternative, less invasive forms of health care, largely in part to my own experiences)

My 2.5 y ear old son, has NEVER had a shot and if I can help it, he won't, unless, he chooses to at an older age. Some would say that's ludicrous, but that decision was based on LOTS of research and catering a plan specific to our child and the way he's being raised and our medical backgrounds and his risks. I don't think that's the right decision for everyone and it's not a decision we've made lightly...in fact it's an ongoing conversation and debate and process of gathering the newest information.

What heats this debate is personal choice. I think parents are getting tired of accepting the status quo for their children. Modern parenting is more than following an outdated government chart that says what shot you should have, what you should eat, what you should learn and know, etc...

The best thing you can do, is educate yourself with information from all sides and view points. Look at how you plan to raise your child, will you stay home, will you use daycare, will you breastfeed, will you not, do you have underlying health issues that could be passed to your child. Meet your child, learn a little about his or her personality and tolerance levels and health before you make the decision. Bottom line, just be educated, be proactive, and be an engaged and informed parent. Whatever you choose for your child, choose it with confidence and you'll be fine.

Congratulations on your precious little one, it's such a great ride!

many vaccines contain mercury and formaldehyde. even though the mercury was supposed to have been removed from all vaccines, it has not (just call your doctor and ask). this is one reason they can be dangerous. the negative effects of mercury are well-documented. check the ingredients in your vaccines, and research every ingredient. it's not just the vaccines - it's the preservatives.

be careful what you shoot into your child's veins.

Some ding-dong in Great Britain made the claim/theory that vaccines cause autism. He was just trying to sell his book and products, and he has already been discredited. It's complete horse manure- esp since we ALL have been getting vaccines for many decades.
If vaccines cause autism, then why have the rates suddenly started increasing in the last 10-15 years? The vaccines have changed very little since I was a baby in 1975. Autism was very uncommon back then and not the "epidemic" it is now. My heart goes out to those parents whose children have autism, and I think we all just want answers. I think it's just a coincidence that autism manifests itself around the time that the MMR vaccine is administered.
Duke University is doing some interesting genetic studies on autism. They have tracked down a particular gene that "turns off", causing autism. This is just a theory, and they are still working to find an answer. I would take their word over some quack in GB.

There are many reasons people stagger their some shots and forgo others. You see people throwing around the world "thimerosal" and stating that it was taken out of vaccines ages ago. Maybe so, but most families who have issues with vaccines are worried about the other ingredients--such as formaldehyde and the other stabilizers used in vaccines. For a baby to get three shots in one day that not only have the 3 virus/diseases per shot but then formalin and differing forms of aluminum on top of it seems like an awful lot to some parents.

Here is the list of ingredients in vaccines from the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appen...

For some people, for religious reasons, any use of fetal cells from any animal is not acceptable. For parents of children with severe egg allergies, many of these shots can cause a severe reaction. We personally delayed the HepB for both our our children because the packaging states to not administer the vaccine if the child is allergic to eggs. My baby was less than 24 hours old, so how in the world was I able to determine if she were allergic?

The issue is not as cut and dry as many people try to make out. Every child is unique and there can't be a cookie-cutter solution to vaccines, either.

To put it simply: for some people, the perceived risks of vaccinating outweigh the perceived risks of not vaccinating. I think this is a highly personal and sometimes emotional choice. I chose to vaccinate my kids, so I can't really chime in on why not doing so would be best.

We spread out our child's vaccines because even though it's just a couple of shots, there's a lot in each combo and you can't always get them separate anymore. I just felt that it was too much for her little system. The number of vax between when her brother and sister were little and now has increased dramatically. She will be fully vaccinated for school, but it may take her longer to get there, something her father, pediatrician and I are all fine with. Some of it is so arbitrary, too. Like because we went on a trip and got the MMR one week early, it's likely the county will make us do it again, like there's something magical about being 1. My grandfather had polio on his 30s and was permanently scarred from it, and we live in a diverse area, for example. I'm not going to not vaccinate and hope she's never exposed when I can prevent it.

Just something to think about. This is from my OB....
Washington state has the highest number of children with autism. WA is also the state that took out the mercury from vaccines before any other state (like 10 years before). So, why do we have so many children with autism? no one knows.
I have vaccinated my two older boys and am in the process of slowly vaccinating my daughter (she is 4 months old). When I say slowly I mean that we go in once a month and get one or two shots as opposed to the 3 or four shots that are normally given. She is still being vaccinated, but not making her body work as hard. I don't want my child to get pertussis, for example, which seems to be making a comeback, when it is a preventable disease.

Ok, I'll jump in, too.

If you spend any time on the internet, you might think my kids (now ages 18, 16, 14) are a minority in that they have every single recommended shot, on schedule, including chicken pox (and follow up boosters), meningitis, HPV, and yearly flu shot (when I got around to it). None of them have ever had any complications arising from this beyond maybe a little redness/soreness at the shot sight, and a couple 12 hour low grade temps.

I should also mention, having been born in 1966 I was among the first generation to be regularly innoculated, and nor have I had any health issues which could in any way be linked.

This is not a cause that I preach. And if I were to do it angain, I would do it on a delayed schedule with my kids.

However, being a sensible person, I find the idea silly that the American government would willingly go around poisoning it's own children. And the doctors and research scientist who work their entire lives to come up with solutions to widespread illnesses all have mothers who would be deeply offended by the suggestion their sons/daughters are fabricating evidence which results in danger to the world's children.

I ALSO feel, yes, the human body DOES get stronger better by exposure, and wonder wether we are diluting the human race by killing every bacteria/virus, omitting completely certain things from or diets, restricting our own exposure to various things known to be 'bad' for us. With regards to evolution, the human body is VERY durable, because of the things the human body has been through in past generations. I wonder at what point we will no longer be at the top of the food chain because we have become so very sensitive and no longer able to process whatever comes at us (or IN us). Off subject, sorry.

Of course, nor am I a mindless conformist. I do read with interest all the 'experts' on either side have to say. And it's with respect and education that I humbly disagree with so many of them.

I think the 'debate' is valuable in it's own right, and a subject on which all mothers will need to draw their own conclusions. For you one of the first of ENDLESS decisions you will have to make for your children. Like the rest of us, I'm sure you will rise to the occasion.

Congratulations on the new baby!

:)

There is no scientific evidence to show that the vaccines actually ended or killed the diseases they were made for. Actually, after the live virus polio vaccine came out, most cases of polio occurred in people who had received the vaccine, and the manufacturer of the vaccine even admitted that it may have CAUSED the polio in those people. There is a wealth of information by doctors, not a bunch of quacks, that refutes the effectiveness of vaccines and many experts who believe the risks outweigh the benefits. It is not just an "autism" or "no autism" debate, it is an overall health debate and trying to decide if the vaccines are effective enough to warrant the risks.
Check out all different books on the subject, and websites. Try to sift through the information and come up with the best answer for your family.

www.nvic.org
www.childhoodshots.com
"How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" by Dr. Mendelsohn

These are just a few of the resources that changed my mind, I used to be a fully vaccinating mom, never questioning that the doctors who saw my children knew all the facts and had my children's best interests in mind. I learned that I have to have all the facts myself and not rely on anyone to make the decision but ME.

There are different views and as with many subjects different studies. I honestly feel you can find at least one study to support any view on anything! This is a subject that will be & can be hotly argued for/against/delayed. I'm sure you'll get some great answers and probably some personal messages too!

I agree with the responders who say that every child is different, and no child should be treated the same medically. I dont understand how so much money can be made on vaccinces though. thats what confuses me. my son gets his shots at the immunization clinic in town and they are all free.

I don't think vaccines CAUSE autism, but I think it can trigger many things, especially when babies and very young children and dosed with multiple vaccines at one time, some as young as 2 months getting 4-6 vaccines at one appointment! Thats a chemical cocktail that I refuse to put into my children.

My kids ARE vaccinated, but nothing before 6 months of age and only one at a time, at least a month between vaccines, and no Hep A, no chicken pox, never a flu vaccine. We follow our own schedule because I refuse to shoot my kids up with the multiple doses.

Research some on blood brain barrier in newborns and babies, and open gut in newborns. This will give you a better idea of why we delay vaccines and don't introduce any foods but breastmilk before 6 months of age.

ETA taht anyone who thinks vaccines are the same as they were when we were kids needs to do more research! When I was a kid, I started Kindergarten in 1985, my mom took me in for school shots, I got one in each arm. I got a couple as a toddler, thats it. Here is a comparison chart from 1983 vaccines required/recommended and 2008 vaccines required/recommended.
http://www.mygen.com/CDC_Mandatory_Vaccine_Schedule_Compa...

Get Dr. Sears vaccine book. EXCELLENT resource, doesnt try to sway you wither way!

I'm anti-vac, but wasn't like that before. I used to think along the lines of why would you not vax your child, but then after meeting a friend who's whole family is not vax'd and how healthy they are, I became curious and read tons of books and literature and made my decision. Plus my religious background helped me realize why God had certain rules for the people in the Old Testament. But aside from my views, I strongly suggest looking at both sides of the argument as it is a very heated debate. I actually trust Mercola more than my own doctor. Dr. Sears, is ok. Sorry, had to throw in my own bias. There's just too much overwhelming evidence against vax's. Plus vax's have been known to cause auto-immune diseases (AIDS) and a great way to introduce cancer. I just don't trust everything the FDA, NIH, CDC and pharmaceutical companies put out there for information. According to a 2005 congressional study, there's a conflict of interest between these organizaions where the only ones profiting are the organizations I've mentioned above. Plus add that to the U.S. as being the most medicated population w/a healthcare problem (I'm actually in the middle of writing an article on health care and health in the U.S. in comparison to the other OECD countries).

I'll just tell you what I learned:
Baby's immune system is at "0". Japan doesn't vax their kids till they're 2 - at least they'll have somewhat of an immune system by the time they get a jab. Sickness helps build the immune system so that as they get older, they'll get healthier. Toxins are in the vax's, since when is mercury ok to be in the body (can't find my mercury supplements, hehe) Diseases were already in a decline w/out the help of vaccines as this is due to better hygiene methods. Great books to read are:

Books by the author Neil Miller;

Vaccine A - by an author that is actually for vaccines, but realized that there is a trickle-down affect on what is tested on the military --- down to the civilian. Also the military personnel are unfortunately a cheaper way to "test" vaccines along with having them tested in 3rd world countries;

Aids, Ebola, Accident or Intentional? - by a Harvard doctor that made a connection w/new diseases that never existed before in humans -- also the U.S. was involved w/the Nazi's and even hired some former Nazi doctors to work for us -- we also kept the documentation of their sick and disgusting testing they did to those poor prisoners -- of course for educational purposes;

Books by Dr. Sheri Tenpenny - lotsa documented stuff, big book;

NVIC site;

Google Book: Horrors of Vaccine (free to download) -- old book, written by a doctor that was actually research and pleading to the president to stop vaccines. Vaccines used to never be profitable for pharmaceutical companies until the military stepped in with the bioweapons research.

A press conference today (5/10/11) at noon (eastern time) that you might find interesting: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ebcala . I think it will be available afterwards too.

I love Dr. Stephanie Cave's book, though it is more dated than Dr. Sears (haven't read his).

I'm not anti-vaccine; just extremely pro-informed consent. Managed care, quick appointments and regulatory agency capture don't alway tease out the nuances of this issue. You may also want to review Justice Sotomayor's dissent in the recent "Bruesewitz" decision (google it). Perhaps get multiple opinions. Like any medical intervention, caution is in order. JMO, and I'm not a health care provider of any type.

Good luck with your baby and I wish you all the best - how exciting!

I have recently read two books on the subject that I found interesting and very well-researched. You might like to read one or both. They were: Vaccines and Your Child: Separating Fact From Fiction and The Panic Virus. The first is a reference guide about vaccines and the second is more of a discussion of the debate itself. Both were worthwhile reading.
Good luck!

There are a million reasons why people get caught up in this debate. One of them is the fact that pharmaceutical companies make a killing in vaccine sales every year, so they have a huge incentive to keep the research looking squeaky clean. We did a lot of reading and in the end decided to fully vaccinate, but we were very lax about the schedule. If she was having an off day or hadn't had her nap (was cranky) at her regual doctor's visit, or if she had a cold or a fever we would opt not to get the vaccine, and just get it at a later date.

the Dtap made my youngest SOOOOOO sick (completely out of it for 4 days) we modified his vaccines. My oldest 2 were Vaxe'd normally. Just depends I guess. You may change your mind too.

I've read a lot of answers here, not one person mentioned (that I read) that vaccines are required in public schools and most private schools... so... that lessens many people's "choice", and choosing not to, is a big hassle in itslef becauser then you need to deal with implications: not being able to go to a school you like, not being able to go to daycare, etc, not being able to travel outside the us.... so, aside from the medical/ethical/"religious" reason, you also have these other "practical" reasons to get your child vaccinated.

Yes, there are people that have been badly effected by vaccines. those VERY FEW people are basically the reason why it has become a huge debate. Makes me think that those SAME people would have been the ones to have trouble with disease if they weren't vaccinated. Not everyone is healthy, vaccinated or not... not everyone has an awesome immune system. Not everyone is gonna live to be 90.

I know I've been torn because of the debate..I agree that if you want to postpone vaccines until children are much older fine but to totally avoid them?? Yikes. These diseases are still out there and if you have not been vaccinated you are at risk.

I was scared of complications and my kids having reactions to vaccines..It has been painfully slow vaccinating them but I do only one at a time at each doctor wellness visit. That way if there was a reaction I would know which one caused it. I am concerned about the autism debate as well. My second child first son got his first MMR at his third birthday. No problems. Since the kids are exposed in daycare to others who may not be vaccinated etc..I don't want to risk measles.

Updated

I know I've been torn because of the debate..I agree that if you want to postpone vaccines until children are much older fine but to totally avoid them?? Yikes. These diseases are still out there and if you have not been vaccinated you are at risk.

I was scared of complications and my kids having reactions to vaccines..It has been painfully slow vaccinating them but I do only one at a time at each doctor wellness visit. That way if there was a reaction I would know which one caused it. I am concerned about the autism debate as well. My second child first son got his first MMR at his third birthday. No problems. Since the kids are exposed in daycare to others who may not be vaccinated etc..I don't want to risk measles.