Protecting Children

You say, "I know he most likely does not have them loaded." MOST LIKELY???? Please think about why that is so dangerous......

That is in-freaking-sane. I would take my child and leave immediately.

If he says "They're not loaded," pick one up and point it at his groin, and say, "How sure are you??" That should prove your point quite nicely.

My father in law keeps guns in his house, and has a machine gun (WTF??) and I hate going there with the kids. It scares the heck out of me. You have every right to leave if these people aren't keeping your kids safe. Period.

And if they want to see your child, they can see him at your house, and they can leave their guns at home. Jeez, we don't even let our kids (4 and 2) watch MOVIES with guns in them. My head would fly off if I went to someone's house and the children were encouraged to look at and touch guns on the couch. We would be out of there in a hot second.

A. @ http://prettybabies.blogspot.com

What?? I'm going to be a little harsh here. First of all you say they may or may not be loaded? Well I guarantee if my kids were there I would definitely know the answer to that question. Second of all tell your husband you don't like to be around guns and don't want your son around them either. I'm all for when the kids get older teaching them about gun safety and taking them out shooting but there is no reason to have guns around the house. If you're brother in law wants to show them to another family member they can do it in the garage but not somewhere that makes you uncomfortable.

My in laws gave my husband a shot gun for his birthday and I was furious but now he has a gun safe and it makes me way more comfortable. You need to put your foot down.

You have an opportunity to turn this into a teaching moment for both your kids and his brother. Let everybody know (by telling the kids very very firmly) that gun are NOT NOT NOT toys, and that the NEVER NEVER NEVER touch one, even if the think it's not loaded or if they think it's not real. If they ever see one, they are to not touch it and to get an adult RIGHT AWAY. We have 3 kids, and we used to own a gun, and my husband would purosely show it to the kids so they that would know that it is a gun and to not touch and not play (always within his supervision, he was holding it, and they couldn't touch; but they were older).

Then talk to your brother in law. Tell him that, aside from being potentially dangerous if accidentally fired, having the guns around are dangerous for you and your kids. Tell him that firearms (specifically the ammo, but also it's residue and even cleaning supplies) has a toxic element. LEAD. It's negligible for adults, but for little ones and pregnant moms/fetus it can be potentially harmful. That's one of the questions the pediatrician asks when determining if a kiddo needs the finger-stick lead blood test at about 2 years old - if anyone in the house owns firearms or regularly goes to a firing range. So even the residue can build up and affect a kiddo.
Ask your brother-in-law to please leave the firearms home when kids are going to be around. Act respectful about his love of guns (even if you hate it, it'll get you farther), but tell him that you're concerned about the health of your son and your unborn baby, as well as any other kids that may be there. If he doesn't respond, appeal to grandparents. If it's about the HEALTH of your kids (their grandkids) they will likely join you on this.

Hi A. - I agree with the others that your brother-in-law should not be so casual with how he manages his weapons, especially around children. If he is bringing over multiple weapons, it is far too easy for a round to accidentally be left in the gun, even with a locking mechanism engaged. Not to mention that it teaches your children that it's okay to handle a weapon that they might find laying around.

If it were me, I would lay down the law with my husband for my children's safety and set a firm boundary. Talk to your brother-in-law and tell him that if he brings guns to a family get together, he needs to display and store them in an area where they are in no way accessible to the kids. He also must put them into a locking case once they are finished looking at them.

I had to tell my dad to put his chow in the backyard before we came into his house one day because he was a biter. He was terribly offended and said "dont worry so much, it will be okay" I was firm and reminded him that none of us would forgive ourselves if the worst ever happened. It only takes one second of inattention. Trust me, your instincts are 100% spot on in this issue.

You need to set a firm boundary for your children's safety. If your brother-in-law persists, then dont take the children anywhere that he might bring weapons. If he brings them, leave. This is going to ruffle some feathers with your family, but your kids safety is worth it. I cant imagine your husband not being on board with this.

good luck,
C.

Wow! That is really irresponsible of your brother in law. I would talk with him, and let him know it is not acceptable to have a gun lying around for young children to mess with. And if he continues, I would take the gun, explaining to the children that their uncle shouldn't leave things like this out. A gun can be dangerous and should be treated extra carefully. Because even though the children are young, they can still be taught that guns are different. It is never too early to teach gun safety. And when you handle the gun yourself, call your brother in law out on his mistake. Because even if there were no kids around, he should not leave a gun lying around! That is just stupid on his part.
Good luck
L.

I do believe in guns. But to have them laying on the couch...I don't think so. We allow our 4 children ages 12 down to 2 to handle the guns in a parental control environment. We were taught through our gun safety classes that this will teach them respect and that if they are curious they just need to ask and not go looking for themselves (as that is when kids blow each other up). We do not leave them laying around. You treat each gun (loaded or not)as a loaded gun. And they should not be left unattended period! I do think it is your husbands place to say something, but if he does not, then I think you should. If your brother in law wants to bring the gun ask him to take them to a room that can be locked like his parents room (and use a screw driver to unlock it when he is ready to leave) when he is done showing them off. And if he doesn't agree, then let him know its the guns or you...he can't have both coming to the party.
We have had similar issues with family. And after a month or two of not coming around to parties...my in laws step in and make sure that "we can come" to the party. But make a stand and make it in front of everyone and you will probably find your not the only one that is offended over his behavior, but they are just too shy to say anything.

I'm not sure I have a clear picture of what you're saying. Do you mean to say he'll put a gun on the couch and walk away? He just leaves the guns sitting there unattended???

OR do you mean to say he lets them sit there by him and then allows the children to look and touch the gun with him right there??

And when you say they can touch them, do you mean they can pick them up and swing them around, they can touch them while he's holding them, or that he places them in their hands for a moment so they can feel the weight????

See, I don't know that keeping them hidden and allowing taboo to build is a great thing. There is value in exposing children to firearms early and teaching them that they are very powerful, useful, and potentially dangerous tools to be held with great respect.

We take our children target shooting and have very strict rules about them. We have them double locked and, yes, we do lock them away in an undisclosed place when we are away from the house.

I don't think it's offensive for gun enthusiasts to share their goodies with each other, I don't think it's wrong to bring them to other family members' homes unless that family member doesn't like it; such as, your home, if you don't want guns there, then he'd be wrong to bring them there.

You do have the freedom not to attend the dinners with the guns there.

I'm sure I'd have a stronger reaction toward your brother's behavior, but I'm just not clear on what you mean exactly with some of the things you've mentioned.

Also, have you talked to your brother-in-law, your in-laws, or your husband about it at all or is this you trying to validate the need to?? Anytime you're uncomfortable you have a right and obligation to visit the subject in order to clarify some boundaries for yourself and others regarding any particular subject.

I think the other ladies spelled out some guidelines for you to look for: locks in place, safety on, ammo OUT, clips OUT, NEVER point toward people or UP into the sky or straight out unless you're at a range, always point down toward the ground unless you're upstairs in which case just heft the weapon and wait until a more appropriate situation.

Personally, I'd prefer to know where the weapons are, seeing them in plain sight for me to witness, rather than having them hidden without my knowledge to find out later when someone "finds" them. I'd prefer to be able to watch the count if they're present.

Perhaps, the best thing is for you to come from a supportive perspective and suggest you all take a gun safety class together so you can have back up in your feelings and desires...plus, I think all of us ladies should know a thing or two about them regardless of our position on ownership.

Main thing: you can't tell people what to do in anyone's home but your own, and you have the right to feel however you feel--if you are uncomfortable then you need to stand up and stick your foot into the ground (but not your head). If you don't want your children around something, then do NOT put them in the position where they can be no matter what, and then DO RESEARCH and re-evaluate the situation.

Hi A.,
I'm right there with you! It's not very responsible to have guns around UNLOCKED with children around. And your right is it safe to assume they are not loaded. This is why they should be locked. Common sense gun safety!
L.

Hi A.-I also grew up around guns and they need to be handled very carefully. I also knew someone who, at the age of 11, accidentally shot and killed his best friend with his father's gun (which was "hidden.") Children are a lot smarter and a lot more curious than we give them credit for. Keep in mind, 29,000 children have accidentally died from gun shots in the 10 years since Columbine. You and your husband need to have a frank conversation and he needs to speak with his family. If the guns are out, you will not go over to their houses. You can use your mommy instinct here--nothing may ever happen, but obviously you have a feeling something could and you are the only one who will protect your kids. Guns in the house are okay for some--guns out on the couch for kids? I would be NO WHERE near them with my children. Good luck!

He is completely off-base. If I were in that same situation, I would not bring my children around that house. I am an older Mommy and I have a great instinct... Trust yours!

After reading your situation, I must admit, I do NOT think you are over-reacting. Guns are dangerous, loaded or not. If your kids see the uncle's guns and are comfortable being around them, then they may also become more comfortable around guns in general. Worst case scenario~they see a gun at a friends house that looks like their uncles...what's preventing him from wanting to touch that gun? In such a case, those guns may be loaded...and then it would be too late. Your brother-in-law may very well not have the guns loaded, but he is truly doing a disservice to your child by leaving guns out where your son can acquaint himself with them.

My advice....talk to your husband about your concerns and ask him if he'd be willing to discuss it with his family members. It definitely wouldn't hurt to ask.

Your husband should talk to the relatives about putting the guns out of sight. If he refuses, put your foot down and tell him you're not going back to that house if the brother-in-law is expected to show up.

If your husband won't respect you on that, your last hope is to speak with your father-in-law or your brother-in-law. (I'm assuming you've already asked the brother-in-law not to do this.) If they won't respect your very simple wishes, then stop going there until the family deals with this.

Keep the kids away! Don't let anyone make you feel bad, ashamed, embarrassed, overprotective, or guilty for doing what is right. It's your husbands family, so he should talk to them, but if he won't.....fluff your feathers and keep you chickies safe. Period.

If no kid had ever been shot just playing with guns, well, you might be overprotective. It happens... all the time. And it's 100% preventable. I'd say that this is a discussion that hubby needs to have with his brother, "Dude, just don't - my 1 year old doesn't need to be fondling your grach."

Stick to YOUR guns. :D

You are definitely not being overprotective! That is very irresponsible (and abnormal) of your brother-in-law! In my opinion, you should insist that there are no guns around when you bring your child over, or you will not bring him. Not only is it a horrible accident waiting to happen, but it is teaching your son that guns are toys, and acceptable to have around. Trust your instincts!

Maybe I am overprotective too...but I just wouldn't go over there for dinner anymore. When the BIL decides to leave his guns at home, then I would go for dinner again. I would be honest with your in-laws about it. Who cares what they think? This is your family and you need to protect them. They can always come over to your house for dinner or the BIL could show off his guns at another more appropriate time. Your son is too young to know the difference between real and pretend right now. If he gets used to seeing guns laying around, he will think that any gun is okay to look at and touch. When he is older he will be able to understand different circumstances and surroundings and real and pretend. If your gut tells you not to be there when that is going on, don't. You don't want to regret something like that later.

Guns should not be left out for children to play with. Ever. And I'm not saying this as an anti-gun person. I'm saying this as a firearms owner and the wife of a rifle safety instructor. Guns need to be clearly separated and secured from other household things, and children should be taught that if they see one laying out they should "stop, don't touch, leave the area, and tell an adult" (verbatim from the NRA's Eddie Eagle kids' safety program). I don't know if quoting the NRA's own teaching materials to your wayward relatives will help, but it might.

The Eddie Eagle gun safety video is available through many public libraries.

I would NOT put up with that. No guns should be out of a locked case with children around. Ask your brother-in-law to either not bring the guns, or if he has to show them off, have them go out to the garage, or a room that can be locked, so that your children will not have access or even exposure. If he won't agree, I would tell your in-laws the reason that you can no longer attend dinner when your brother-in-law is there. And actually, it should be your husband that handles his brother, and parents.

As a gun owner and concealed carry permit holder, I'm obviously someone with strong beliefs about a right to own and use guns. That said, this guy is way out of line.

I'm just echoing the chorus here, but his behavior is irresponsible and childish. Any gun owner with half a brain knows that you ALWAYS treat a gun as if it is loaded. ALWAYS.

My husband and I teach our children about guns and give them opportunity to handle and fire them, but always under close supervision and in appropriate places. Hanging out in the living room is not an appropriate place. So many accidental gun deaths could be prevented by teaching proper handling, and this behavior contradicts that very idea.

Contrary to what many people think, children do not need to be taught to fear guns, but need to be taught to *respect* guns as the powerful forces that they are.
His casual attitude and handling of firearms does a disservice to everyone around him, especially a young child.

I agree that there is a time and place for guns...my husband is an avid hunter and was on the trap and skeet team in college, he also had his FFL (federal fire arms license). We have seveal guns and ammo all are locked in a safe. We get them out for hunting season, cleaning and target practice. We teach our children the proper use of guns and the proper safety. Leaving guns out is inappropriate and irresponsible loaded or unloaded. Your concerns are valid and unless you speak up the behavior will continue and you will remain uncomfortable, possibly creating resentment. Your brother-in-law may not see the harm but you can't explain proper gun safety to a 20 mo. therefore it's something he should not be exposed to until he can fully comprehend.

I am with you. It is entirely inappropriate for him to bring guns around your children, especially without your permission. If he wants to show the uncle what he has they need to do it somewhere else, maybe outside, in another room, whatever. When they are done admiring they can put them away. What does your husband say? This is his family, he needs to address it so you are not the bad guy. You are not being unreasonable or overprotective, this is plain common sense. Even if you didn't have a problem with guns, as a gun-owner he needs to demonstrate the proper safety and responsibility in front of anyone, especially children.

Good luck with that, and don't stand down, this is a big deal. Your childrens' safety comes first.

Honey, overprotective is not letting your 20 month-old play on the slide. Not allowing him to play with guns is just good sense. Do whatever you have to do to see that your child is never in this situation again. This is not an area for compromise or negotiation. No guns left laying about. Period.

While there are two schools of thought about kids and guns, I don't think this is appropriate behavior around a 20 month old!
Maybe he thinks he's doing a good thing exposing the kids to guns at an early age? If he's trying to do something good, perhaps you can approach it more gently. Something like how you appreciate that he wants to start them off knowing something about gun safety so young, but you're just not comfortable yet.
If, on the other hand, he's just being a self centered jerk... well, I think stronger measures are called for. Perhaps ask him to keep his guns in private - without your child present. Tell MIL/FIL that if it continues you will have to keep your visits short or not at all if it continues.
Either way, YOU are his mother! YOU get to decide if it's ok or not - if you aren't comfortable with the guns then you are allowed to make changes. No other parent should have a problem with you speaking up for your child - that's what we're supposed to do!
Good luck!

Showing kids guns and teaching them proper respect for them does not include leaving them lying on the couch so they can see/touch/play with them. That teaches children that guns are toys -- and they are not. You need to be proactive on this. Be clear, but nice, that when your son is around could they please have the guns up where he can't play with them. Make sure your husband is on your side on this and have him speak up too. Don't take these things lightly -- it only takes one bullet to make a tragedy. And it doesn't have to be your BIL's gun/bullet, because he is treating them so casually he is teaching all the kids around him to treat them casually. Guns are adult things and should be treated as such.

I am a gun owner but I believe that guns have a time and a place and unless you are getting ready to use the guns they DO NOT belong out where kids can play with them. All gun are loaded, in my opinion. There is a time and a place for kids to learn to handle guns. I believe that there is a place for machine guns and that place is in the battlefield, not in a family home. I think you have every right to be concerned about this problem and if you weren't I think I would be worried. A 20 month old child is to young to have guns laying around. Why is your husband not saying something to his brother? You need to be proactive in this situation because you little guy could be in danger because even if someone thinks a gun is not loaded there is always that possiblity that one could be left in the chamber and if bumped just right could go off. Believe me I know I have shot a hole in my livingroom wall a few years ago and I have had holes put in my ceiling from someone trying to unload a gun in the house. Please do or say something to keep your family safe. I also believe that personal ownership of a machine gun is illegal in all 50 states (not sure but I know it is in Wyoming.) I do not believe you are over protective in this situation.
Since I do not know your family I can't tell you how to handle the situation but I know in my family I would tell them that if the guns are going to be out we would be going home and if the guns were not put away then I would gather my children and walk right out the door.
Good luck;
J.

Um, yeah, that's irresponsible of your BIL. We are a gun family (my husband and I both come from hunting families), and my husband loves to show off his guns. He shows them to ADULTS and then PUTS THEM AWAY! We think it's okay to expose kids to them, but they don't need to handle them. It's important for kids to learn that certain things are only safe for adults--guns are definitely one of those things!
Next time, ask your BIL (or have your hubby ask him) to kindly put the gun up high where it cannot be reached by little people, or to return it to his vehicle. Explain that your son is at such a curious stage you don't feel comfortable with him touching guns.

My dad had quite a collection of firearms when I was little. He let us see them so that he could teach us to be safe around them and I believe that was very valuable training. He also made us go to Hunter's Safety classes so that we would understand the laws and safety issues.

One important element of gun safety is showing that the gun is not loaded before allowing someone to handle (touch) the weapon. On a bolt or lever action, the person should be opening the breech before handing it to you or anyone else. On a barrel, they should open the barrel. If it uses a clip, they should be removing the clip.

It doesn't sound like your brother-in-law is practicing this safety measure around your family since you are not certain whether the guns are loaded. I would encourage you to require that this be practiced when the guns are around your children. This will also help to teach your children safety around firearms and teaching safety is definitely part of protecting our kiddos.

Hi A...I did not read what everyone has said so far so I might just be repeating what somone else has said. I think you are not off base at all. My Hubby is Air force and whill I know he has guns at work I made it clear that I did not want then around the kids..and he understands. Its not that I think he would be carless with them I know he wouldnt, but my son is a boy and think guns are cool and I am trying to keep him being around them down untill he is old enough to understand that guns are NOT toys and can take some safty classes on them. I am not agenst gun eathere but like you there is a time and place for it.

That being said I would talk to you hubby about your fears if you havent alread. I feel that since the problem is with HIS family that he should be the one to talk to his brouther about it. make sure that you hubby knows that you are to saying that his family is bad or wrong, but you are lookin out for you little one. I am sure he'll understand. IF your brother-in-law is bring them over to your house I think you have every right to ask he not to bring them in your house..rember it IS you house and you can say what you do and do not want in the house. As for dinner at you In-laws..Like I said I think it would be heird better coming from you hubby, but if you fell you should say somthing maybe try your mother in law. Let her know that you are not ok with your little ones being so close to guns, that you can relax and enjoy your self and them like you want to. jsut be carfull how you work it you dont want her to feel like you attacking her son.

Also if you have tryed talking to them and no one is hearing you I think you are well with in your right as there mother not to take them over. Being in good with your in-law is a great thin I jsut wouldnt let them step over what you think and feel is right for your family.

Its a hard place to be in and I wish you the best of luck!

The only thing you can to is stay away. Tell them it makes you uncomfortable having the guns around your children & you won't be bringing them around if the guns are going to be out, but they're more than welcome to come visit you to see the kids.
I want my boys to not be afraid of them, & because Daddy's a soldier, everyone has fired a weapon at one point, even our 5 year old. When we have though, it's been under strict rules, guidance & w/the upmost safety stuff.
If that's not your thing & I agree w/you when you say "everyone says it wasn't loaded", you have the right to keep your children away. Just make sure before you say anything that you & hubby are on the same page.
Stick to your nonguns girl!

Your primary responsibility is to protect your child. If you ever feel uncomfortable about a situation, you need to follow your instinct and speak your mind. This is something that is difficult about being a parent, but so necessary. Take your child out of that dangerous equation of guns that are within reach. It is not okay. If your family is upset, you need to grin and bear it, and realize its part of being a mom. Don't bring the baby over any more until they put the guns somewhere safe.

you are not at all out of line! your husband needs to talk with his brother and parents about the guns being locked in cases at all times when you and your children are visiting. rehearse with your husband beforehand what he is going to say so that you know that your message is getting across. be firm but kind. being shocked by the sight of a gun is a good thing!

I am with you on the gun thing. Yes, it's their house, but it's your safety. Since it is your husband's family, can you have your husband talk with him? I don't think you are being unreasonable or overprotective at all. Guns belong in a gun case - loaded or not. Just the weight of the gun could hurt a young child if they were to try to pick it up...

A. - I grew up around guns. But there are appropriate times and places for guns. Sitting on the couch while kids are roaming around is NOT at all a good idea!

I think you should discuss this with your husband. Put it on him. Explain that you are not happy with the guns just tossed hither and yon. Ask if a compromise can be made. Brother-in-law wants to show off his new "toys" - fine.....but outside at his ride. Then he still can share with anyone who wants to see while keeping the rest of the group from being uncomfortable. When people come to our house, the guns are left out in the car unless other arrangements are made.

That's my 2 cents - good luck!