On Being the Third Wheel in a Dysfunctional Family...

Hi--
I went through this with my incredibly dysfunctional family. I started by trying to set boundaries with them in the same way that you have. However, it simply didn't work. They did not respect my boundaries at all. So in my case I had to walk away. It was hard and I went through a lot of guilt about it, especially in relation to my children not getting to be a part of the family. But the more I worked through it the more calm and happy my life was. Now, 6 years later, I have to say that it's the best decision I ever made. My children aren't constantly exposed to the dysfunctional behavior and I'm not constantly having to guard myself and them. There are just those situations that no matter how hard you try you can't teach someone else to respect boundaries---so the only way to enforce the boundary is to cut off contact. Out of my entire family, extended included, my mother is the only one who respected me and my wishes. We now have a relationship outside of her relationship with her husband and the extended family. It's tough sometimes, but so much healthier for me and my family.
Good luck working through this---I know how hard it is!!
J.

If it were me, right now I would email both of them on the same email and tell them its THEIR issue and you are not going to be involved in it and this is you NOTIFYING them of this. Also, in the future, if either of them brings up some kind of b.s., you will NOT get involved. They can keep calling, texting, emailing but you will NOT respond. And then make sure you DON'T!!! When your mom called and got into it and you told her you were going to hang up, you should have. When your brother started texting you, you should have texted him ONCE that you were not getting involved and will NOT respond to any of his texts and then DON'T. I know its sometimes easier said than done, but once you start to do this EVERY single time, they will start to not bother with you because you are not feeding into their desperate need for attention from you. Good luck.

Never forget the truth. As you understand it. Or what you've learned in counseling.

They will attempt to scramble your brain with their illogical thoughts/ideas/requests. It's manipulation in O. form or another.

Here's the conversation you hear in your head when they are going on and on: blah blah blah blah blabby blah.
Inject a few "Hmmmmmmm's" "I seeeeee's" and "Gotta run the baby is climbing the fridge's." and END it.

Seriously all of this is just the result of their codependent, seriously sick relationship.

You CANNOT apply logic to an insane situation. Your mother still thinks she can. Drugs=insanity. You're smarter. Don't even try.

And after O. "you & mom figure this out" type text or response--END it.
He can refer back to your last message if he's unclear after that.
Do NOT get sucked into whatever insanity is going on with them.

All I can say is I think you are right in with being consistent with the "I don't want to be involved" approach.

Good luck!

I'm going to use an analogy.

In the addiction world there are 2 "levels" other than "using". They are "Dry" and "sober".

When you associate with people who are not aligned with your goal of maintaining healthy choices (whatever they may be.... in addiction it's anyone who uses, tries to get you to use or simply just doesn't support you not using) EVEN IF YOU DON'T USE you are "dry".

When you remove yourself completely and live a completely different lifestyle that doesn't include any dynamics of your old life, then you are considered "sober".

That's really over-simplified.

Can you move between both worlds? Sure. But if you're at a dry point it's much easier to get sucked back in to "using" or, in your case, living in the dynamic in which you were raised.

Is it hard to be sober? You bet it is. Every day. For good reasons and for no reason. It's just hard to live a different life than the one we were 'bred' for.

The only way to not get rocked is to be sober. To stay completely away from whatever it is that pushes your buttons and to surround your self with a support network of people who naturally live a different life than the one you want to avoid.... people who embody the dynamic in which you want to exist.

I don't have answers for you. But I wish you the best of luck.

Be a broken record..."I will not get involved in this matter between the two of you".

Turn off your texting on your phone.

It's hard, but if you must talk with them and they start going down the wrong path, turn on the broken record. When they finally understand, they'll stop bothering you.

OK I read all that as this....Mom was trying to tell you about situation with bro and how she is worried, venting and you basically told her to didnt care to hear it. I don't see her venting to you as sucking you in or getting you involved. You got nasty messages from bro because you upset mom by pointing out to her during her vent that she is messed up. You DID criticize her, whether it is true or not. Which I personally think is a really shitty thing to do if someone is calling you to talk. It would piss me off too. I mean Why? It comes across as a petty jab.

Put yourself in her shoes... you call BFF to vent about any old thing and she says well you do it too so shut up and leave me out of it?

I don't mean to be insulting at all I promise..It's just my interpretation from my own life experiences with crazy family. (and being someone who needs to vent )

ETA AND My husband is bipolar AND my family is nuts likes this... especially my brother who I am pretty sur eis BP too

Sounds to me like you're dealing with TWO people with BPD. And what goes hand-in-hand with BPD? Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

The only way to get away from these scenarios is to refuse to become involved in any way. That also means picking your battles. You didn't do this when you criticized your mom (even if she did deserve it).

With BPD types you have to stand up for yourself VERY clearly. For anyone else, when you said "I don't want to be involved," that should have been enough. But you're talking to someone with BPD. You have to be so clear that it seems rude and pushy to anyone else...because that is what it takes to get through their emotions.

This means saying "I will NOT be manipulated by you. When I say 'I don't want to talk to you about this topic,' I mean it. Forcing me to do so is manipulative and rude and I will not stand for it."

They'll get ticked at first...but just like they always do, they'll be apologizing and thanking you the next day. Just be sure to stand your ground ALWAYS. With BPD types, if you give in even slightly, that's an invitation to steamroll you. Don't give in.

For those who say "don't answer the phone...don't text...etc."

You've obviously not known anyone with BPD. That doesn't work. It makes it worse. The next thing you know, they're on your doorstep having a panic attack, insisting that it's YOUR fault because you didn't answer the phone.

When you say BPD, are you referring to bipolar or borderline personality disorder? If it is the latter, I would recommend you look into a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells" which is written especially for family members of people with borderline personality disorders. From your post, it sounds like you are describing problems associated with the disorder. Sorry if I misinterpreted. If I didn't, there is also an associated website with forums from others who are in various stages of dealing with this lovely illness.

http://www.bpdcentral.com/bks/swoe.php

With either problem, there are no easy answer, but it's all about learning to stay above the fray, as your father did, rather than allowing yourself to get dragged in, even if you're trying to be helpful. Best of luck to you!

Families are so fun, aren't they? The next time someone tries to drag you into their drama, listen politely and then say "I'm sorry to hear that he/she is going through that" Repeat as necessary. Pretend you don't have an opinion on anything. Don't get involved, don't register an opinion. Be neutral. They will get frustrated and aim their drama at someone else.

Michelle and Christy Lee below both said what I thought. Ignoring them isn't going to work. If mom is bipolar and brother either is or has some form of mental illness... or nurture has just gotten the best of him anyways... running away won't work. I agree if you haven't dealt with someone who has bipolar disorder you have no idea how to handle them.

You did insight a fight when you brought up your mom's problems to her. Sure she sounds like an incredible pain in the butt but the convo wasn't even about her and so you kinda made the situation worse pry because you were upset and stressed.... so brother responded when mom was crying because you insulted her. I know you didn't mean to hurt her or make things worse. You just got worked up and when she was saying insane things you responded... not the best way you must now realize but I know how incredibly upsetting these things can get and fast.

I would have just told her you can't help anymore than she can. I'd ask her WHAT she expected you to do? I would have simply listened and said things to the effect of well that's too bad, or things always look darkest at dawn, or things that aren't particularly helpful but aren't ignoring her either. She pry would have calmed down eventually.... heck it might take a few day. Blowing things out of proportion are kinda the same territory.

Well I guess I'd just think of it this way you pry gave them something else to obsess over for awhile at least. BUT if you want to consider keeping a relationship with them you are going to have to not respond in kind. I know it's hard but the drama it caused has to be worse than had you just said benign things to her till she either hung up or you got her off the phone.

There are alot of great books out there that are geared at how to "live" with a bipolar person. They have alot of great tips and will help you maybe see triggers and such in the future. Best of luck to you and your whole family. I think it sucks that some people are stricken with these illnesses and it doesn't just effect them it does the ENTIRE family. I'm so sorry.

Just put space between you and mom and brother. It is a high price to pay to keep sane. You went through therapy to get away and you have so stay away far away. If you need to, cut cords and ties. I know easier said then done but you have your own family now and they come first.

When you told your mom you had to go you should have hung up I have this problem with my husband sometimes. When you say goodbye, put the phone up don't have it in your ear. It doesn't matter what they have to say once you say goodbye and they say it back to you. The call has ended. Maybe that is just me.

Your brother is out there and not your problem. Let it be. All he will down is pull you back and down. Like someone climbing a ladder to get out of a whole and the rest of the people trying to grab your feet to pull you back so that they can get out and no one does.

Learn your boundaries and walk away. I have done this with my MIL and BIL because of the stupid stuff they have done. Hubby has now learned how to back away as well.

Family is who you make it and it is not always DNA made.

The other S.

PS Be strong you can do it!

My honest answer is I think you need evaluate what you get from these relationships. Yes, they are your mother and your brother. However, no relationship on this earth is worth too steep of a cost. If you feel like you get little in return and you run the risk of getting sucked in, then maybe it's time to take a sabbatical from the crazy. You do have your own family and focusing on them would be a fine excuse for stepping back. You could contact your mother and your brother again in a bit to re-evaluate. At that point you can stay out of their lives/mess or not. I personally don't believe in giving everything to a failing relationship even if the person is a blood relation. There have to be lines in the sand. Good luck.

As an aside your situation reminded me of crabs in a bucket. The crabs always have to pull each other back into the bucket. Nobody can break free. You should ask yourself is that how you want to live. Some people never do change and they hate watching others better themselves which is poison in the relationship.