I'm looking for some perspective on my situation.
My fiancé has two children (21 and 18 years old) and I have two children (5 and 4 years old). The 21 year old is amazing! She is sweet, caring and a joy to be around. She lives on her own, though, so we don't get to see her much.
The 18 year old is a different story. We kicked her out of our home because she was sneaking men in at night (and with two young kids sleeping upstairs, that is not acceptable), and was doing drugs in our home (amongst many, many other things). My fiancé was reluctant to kick her out, however. I had to put my foot down (I won't jeopardize the young ones' or my safety), and he resents me and the younger kids for that (his words). I love this girl, but I can't accept her behavior, or the way she treats her father. She swears at him and says things to him that I never imagined could come out of someone's mouth. She has no job, nor does she have any desire to get one. She currently lives with her boyfriend (and his mother), who provides everything for her (cell phone, drugs, food, etc.). She doesn't even like him, but she stays because she doesn't know how to take care of herself and be responsible. Her dad enables her too. He has paid her cell phone bill a couple of times. He makes it a point to meet up with her once or twice a week and buy her dinner. She blows him off a lot of the time, but he still tries his best. I am obviously not saying that a father shouldn't see their child. What I am saying is that the more that he does that, the more he's telling her that he doesn't think she CAN be independent. How else is she going to learn to be a happy, healthy, independent adult unless she knows she can do it and feels empowered to do so? She is like any other 18 year old in that she will make bad decisions, she'll fall down, she'll mess up, and she will learn how to pick herself up from those circumstances and do something different next time. But he's not letting her learn. He's wrapping his arms around her to protect her from the bad people in the world, which we ALL want to do with our children. But we can't do it forever. And to me, now is the time to let her find her way. I should also mention that her mother kicked her out of her house before we did. She sees her daughter very rarely, usually only for special occasions, like Mother's Day.
So, here is the problem. Obviously, I disagree with how he is parenting her, but I really have no say (apart from not wanting her to live in this house). My bigger issue is that he is putting her before me. I feel very selfish for saying that, but I really believe that your spouse should be your number one priority in your life (after God, of course). By putting your spouse first, you are showing the kids what a healthy and strong marriage looks like. It also helps you tackle the tough situations if you're a team. And, the kids won't always be there. Once they leave, it's just you and your spouse. He is definitely putting his daughter before me. He has actually said that kids come first and that they should never come before the spouse. He makes it a point to spend time with her and his friends. He doesn't spend ANY time with me. His friends are his escape (again, his words). So, if he can't spend time with his daughter, then it's his friends. He stays out late with them. He even stays out overnight. He says this is ok because I wouldn't notice anyway since I'll be sleeping. I think that's BS. Despite me voicing my concerns about it, he still does it. And when he's home in the evenings, he's on his phone constantly, texting people I don't know. He won't tell me much about his friends. He just doesn't want me to be a part of that part of his life. He also puts his daughter above the two younger kids. He says that he doesn't want to be involved with them. That he can't love them as much as he loves his kids, that it's just not biologically possible. The younger kids are little and need more from us as parents. I'm not saying they're more important than his daughter. Just that they need more. They can't take care of themselves. He does help me with the little ones, but not that much. He makes them breakfast and takes them to school. He has taken them to McDonald's a few times and the park once or twice. But nothing past that. As an example, I really needed him to pick the little ones up from school one day because I was tied up at work. But he said no, because he's spending time with his daughter.
I guess my question is, knowing the situation, should I still expect to be number one in his life? And should I still expect him to love my children as much as he loves his own? Nothing is going to change anytime soon with his daughter. This has been going on for over 6 months now (though she's acted like this for years, from what I understand). I sometimes feel like I should just wait it out. He said that he will go to counseling this week. However, if the counselor tells him something he doesn't want to hear, will he listen? Every single person he's talked to about it says that it was absolutely the right thing to do (kicking her out of the house and cutting the strings). He already resents me and the little ones for it. His argument is that I get to see my kids most days, but he only gets to see his daughter once or twice a week.
I'm probably just rambling at this point. I'm just looking for some perspective. Maybe some of you have had this kind of situation. Or maybe you just have some insight. I just want to know if my expectations are too high. I've never been in this situation before.
Thank you in advance!
EDIT:
We aren't married yet. I am just saying "spouse" because that is what he would be. And, yes, we've postponed the date. Also, I would NEVER have gotten together with a man that didn't love my children. He said that he loved them at the beginning, and he always put me first at the beginning of our relationship. And when I talk about putting your spouse first, I'm not saying that you ignore the kids. I'm saying that you need to make your relationship a priority. Have date nights, go on trips, take each other out for lunch, just bond. Otherwise, how else would you get through times like this? Everything changed when WE kicked her out of the house. I can also see how hard it would be to have to kick your own child out of your house. I would be absolutely devastated. And I do put him and our relationship first. And I do love his children as if they were my own. Like I said, I would do the exact same thing if my children acted the same way at 18. I know it would be hard. My heart breaks for her. I can't describe how sad this whole situation makes me. I can't stand to see what she's doing to herself. But I also know that enabling her is only going to make things worse for her, which is why I'm so against it. If I didn't love her and didn't care, then frankly, I wouldn't care what happened to her. But I do love her. And her sister.
It sounds like you fiance doesn't want round two of parenting. His kids are out of the house and he doesn't want to have to deal with little kids. He isn't good husband or father material. Move on.
I hope when you were writing this out you realized how ridiculous it sounds. You and this man are not compatible. You love him and he loves you, but you do not have to be together. You can choose the right thing for EVERYONE and move on.
He is a fiancé.
Toss him back his ring and run away.
Do not look back.
There are plenty of other terrific men out there - find one of them.
LBC
This relationship is a hot mess. You put your children first when you made him kick his daughter out. And GOOD, you should put your children first. But now you expect him to put you first? Double standard. You didn't put him first.
Spouses only come first when they were married before the kids came along. Guess what, all the children involved here already know that marriage is not rainbows and unicorns. Or you would still be married to their father. You are not going to teach them what a strong marriage should look like. You already took that away from them. Only couples that have been together from day one and never divorced can give their children a pretty picture of marriage.
This man will NEVER give you what you want. He has told you that. If you refuse to listen, and marry this man anyway, I have no sympathy for you. Be strong, GET OUT of this relationship. Your fiancé already has. You just refuse to see it.
I don't mean to sound harsh. I really hope you get everything you want in a man someday. But this is not the man for you or your children.
I stopped reading at the part where you forced him to abandon his troubled daughter and pick virtual strangers over his own children.
You have unrealistic expectations. Do everyone a favor and leave this relationship. This will turn out badly for everyone involved.
I'm not going to read 47 respones, so I apologize if I'm repeating.
First off, he will not love YOUR children as much as HIS children. Don't expect him too. He can/should love them, but the love he would have for his own flesh and blood should be stronger.
I love my wife's kids to no end, but they aren't my kids.
Second, find someone else to marry. That is all.
So you put your kids and yourself before your fiancee and made him kick his daughter out so now to make you feel like you are first he should also act like he is happy about that.
So pretty much your philosophy is not put your spouse first but put you first.
Good luck with that.
____________________
Sorry but after reading your edit, you lie or you are seriously delusional because you would not kick your own child out under the same circumstances!
You throw a child into the deep end when they know how to swim and are just too afraid to do it on their own. What you did was threw her in the deep end without the ability to swim! She is drowning and you are sitting there trying to justify ignoring it that you did it for her own good.
If you think your boyfriends resents you now, just imagine if she dies for your effort!
Oh, C.S. the fact that you are putting this relationship before your children is sad to me. You are teaching them that this is what marriage is.... is that what you want for them?
Love is an emotion....... sure. But it's also a VERB. It's how you TREAT someone. It's being respectful and being present and being attentive to their needs in a healthy way.
You do not have any of those things with this man, it appears.
How long have you been with this man? And why did you move your young children into a house that is so dysfunctional? I don't understand. Your children come first. always. The "parents" come first mentality is for when parents are a solid unit BEFORE the kids come into the picture. NOT for blended families or families where the mom was a single mom or the dad was a single mom and THEN a 2nd parent comes (back) into their life. YOU are your children's world. NOT "YOU AND A MAN". He is NOT their father, right? He is your fiance. I would not marry this man.
You know who is is now. He is showing you. Good lord, woman...get out. There is NO reason to stay. You love him? SO WHAT!! That's not a good enough reason. Love doesn't raise kids, love doesn't create a good marriage, love doesn't create a stable home, love doesn't teach, love doesn't work on mistakes. Love feels good, and people TOO OFTEN do stupid things, because they love someone. You, and I'm sorry for being blunt, are doing a stupid thing. You are staying with a man who doesn't care about you, your kids, or your opinion of anything. You are not married and your kids DO need to be the priority right now, in this situation. You need to think of them, and get the heck out of dodge. This will get worse once you are married. It WILL.
Also, you have to realize you made him choose you and your children over his child. Even if you are right, you still made him choose. That will never work. Even so, this guy doesn't line up with your priorities. Spouse coming first, etc. He has said as much. You are asking someone who doesn't agree with you, to change his ideologies. That will never work. Leave and find someone who does meet up with your beliefs. And let him meet someone whose beliefs meet up with his.
You are not yet married.... Get out while you can and give your children the life they need which shows a strong mom.
This post reeks of red flags and warnings for you.
Lastly, your children are very young and the need good role models in their lives. They don't need the example of mom living with someone who treats them this way and she allows it.
Wait -- forget the daughter situation. You are not seeing the larger, nastier issue here.
He spends time with either his kids or his friends but "never" with you?
He needs to "escape" from you, as you put it?
Then you are not in a relationship with him, other than whatever he's using you for -- whether it's a roof over his head; sex; your income; whatever.
You are not in a real relationship no matter what you think or feel. HE is otherwise engaged -- with his friends or his kids, not with you.Even if you love him, you are being used and cheated of any love from him.
Protect yourself and your children. If the home is yours, change the locks and put his stuff outside. If the home is his, pack up your kids and leave. Now.
Yes, kids come before the new man or woman in a new relationship. That's the one thing he has right. But your own young kids need to come first for you now, too, and you know that because you want the teen daughter out of there. Very wise of you. But now he needs to go too. Do you really see him parenting your young children or acting like any kind of decent example to them? Children learn what a man, a husband and a father are from the man they grow up with -- Do you want them to learn that husbands and fathers are never around and need to "escape" (your own word!) from their wife/fiancee? .
The gigantic issue here is not the teenaged daughter. It's the fact that everything and everyone comes before you and always will. Do you really think you can change him if you can get him to marry you?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you are still engaged to him. You see ALL these screaming red flags. He is almost as bad as his daughter in terms of his actions being totally inappropriate in a relationship. Yet you are still with this man?
It is time to tell him goodbye. It is ridiculous that you would even consider this man to EVER become your husband. And why would you waste your youth living with a man who is NEVER going to be marriage material? Staying out all night, texting people you don't know, saying you'll never be first, not caring for the kids in the family who actually NEED a parent to take care of them... tack the terrible 18 year old on top of that and all it is a recipe for a life of misery for you.
Stop with the rose-colored glasses that this will get any better. It won't. And the man doesn't love you - you are just a means to have someone put up with him so that he doesn't have to work hard. Don't fall for it.
CS - welcome to mamapedia!!
No. I have never been in this situation. Nor would I allow myself to be put in this situation.
I would kick his sorry butt out of my house. I would call off the engagement and tell him to pound sand. Why? Because he does NOT respect you, your children or his life. PERIOD. How could he - enabling an adult child, not loving your children (they are a part of you) and if he can't love that part of you now? Getting married isn't going to change that.
He doesn't help with your children. Makes excuses for his.
GET OUT. KICK HIM OUT. BE DONE WITH HIM!! You deserve better. Your children deserved better.
My significant other's children most likely come before me. My kids come before him. I love him to death and he loves me as well, but in my opinion, kids come first if it's not children of the marriage. (I love his kids but never would I love them as much as I love my own. I'm sure he feels the same way.)
It looks to me like you have many more problems that the kid issue. He sounds like he's just not that into you. Time to move on dear. If you are putting this "man" before your children, then you need to have your head examined.
I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like this is going to work for you and your kids. Trouble signs are everywhere...
Change it around. You love your kids more than you love his..
What is the difference?
As parents even when we are disappointed hurt, angry with our children, we NEVER stop loving them..
YOU have the choice. Stay with him, or move on without him. But if you expect him to pick you and your kids over his kids, he has the right to expect the same of you.
Instead family counseling for him and his drug addicted daughter would be great. And couples counseling for you and him, if you think you want to spend your life with him.. It is worth the effort, if you really love him.
You will NEVER be #1 in his life because his children should be. I can understand why he is still upset about having to kick his daughter out - justified or not - could you imagine having to do that to either or your two?
It seems as if you all have not been able to come together as one blended family but rather as two separate entities trying to force themselves into a cohesive unit. All of you can definitely benefit from counseling - and why are you already talking down the fact that he may not listen? This doesn't sound like a situation that is going to be worth it and/or healthy long-term for any of you.
I haven't read the other responses, so sorry if this is repeating. I'd be less concerned about his relationship with his daughter and more concerned with the fact that he doesn't come home at night and doesn't offer any explanations. THAT would be a deal breaker for me. You need to put your children first and move on.
Sorry, time for you to put your children and yourself first and get out of this relationship.
He has already told you all there is to know...he chooses his girls and can NOT love your kids the way he loves his and worse yet, he SAID he resents THEM and YOU for making him kick out his daughter!!
From the outside looking in, this is an easy one, without a shadow of a doubt...your relationship can NOT work!
I don't know what else you are looking for from us? He gave you all the answers you need.
Hi C.S.,
I'm saying this in the nicest tone I can over the internet, and I'd say the exact same thing to my very best friend if she were in this situation. So, here goes:
If you stay in this situation, you are ASKING for a world of hurt. Not just for you, but for your very young, impressionable children.
Move out, or have him move out if it's your house. Give your children a happy, stable home life. You're right; they are little and need more from YOU. Give them that. They deserve it, and it is your responsibility to provide it. When you find a man who is committed to being a mature, responsible spouse and step-parent, then that person will welcome the honor of those roles, not resent and run away from the responsibilities.
If you think that once children leave home, it's just you and your spouse, you are wrong! Children are always part of your life, no matter what age! I have three wonderful step-children, one out of the house, and two in college, they are always part of our lives (coming home from school or for visits, holidays, etc.), and someday in the future, it won't be just them, but their spouses and children!
It isn't that your expectations are too high, but rather, you have the wrong guy (he stays out all night, excludes you from his friends and other parts of his life, spends his time texting in secret). Also, you have your own unrealistic fantasies about how life should be when you're dealing with blended families.
Do some reading on blended families. It takes time, conscious dedication and hard work to make it all come together. BUT, for that to happen, both of the adults have to be willing to do the work necessary and be committed fully to each other as a couple AND as parents and step-parents to all the children.
I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear, but there's no magic fix if your fiancé's heart is not in this---and it really doesn't seem like it is. I hope you'll make a decision that is best for you and your babies longterm.
Sincerely,
J. F.
His actions speak louder than his words. Why are you even considering staying in this dsyfunctional relationship? I don't think he could tell you any more loudly and clearly that he is not in a position to be a spouse and step-father. It doesn't make him a bad guy, but it makes him a poor choice for a partner and frankly, it makes you a poor decision-maker if you continue to keep your kids in this situation. This isn't going to end well, ever. Just end it now. He needs to focus on his daughter and likes being single. That apparently doesn't leave any room for you or your kids, who deserve much better than this. It's one thing to accept the distance of step-relationships in adult children or older teens but for little kids, that isn't fair and doesn't work. With young kids, a step-parent has to be all in.
There is a saying that goes something like when someone shows you who they are, believe them. He's showing you very clearly. Believe him and make the right choice for you and your children.
Short answer? Don't marry him.
If you two are disagreeing on spouse coming first vs children, then you're not on the same page and he will ALWAYS be putting other people before you. Never settle.
If you want a man that will always put you first, then hold out for that man. But may I caution that if you FIND that man, you may find yourself wishing he treated your/his children as more of a priority?
When people show you who they are, believe it the first time.
What if you had a daughter in this same situation with her SO. Would you ask her why she was staying with this guy?
Counseling is a good thing but I bet dollars to donuts, the first time they disagree with him, he's out of there. People like him are camileans.
they change colors. They charm to attract but have no staying power past the first rough spot in the road.
He babies his daughter because she is just like him. Taking advantage of people. Good luck.
sounds to me as if you don't love his kids as much as you love your own either.
and do you put him before your own children, as you expect him to do for you?
khairete
S.
Omg girl, u need to break up with this guy. Not even talking about the daughter situation ..... he's texting ppl constantly that you don't know, going out all hours of the night, etc........doesn't spend any time with you? Are you kidding me. I agree putting your spouse first in a SENSE.........BUT ...... this is crazy. You're not teaching your 4 & 5 yr old what a good relationship looks like w this guy.
I think that this is a recipe for disaster. Please don't marry this man.
You have the cart before the horse.
You switched from fiance to spouse.
You switched from living together to talking about what a marriage is.
BTW, why are you living together with such small children, with him, at all? Are you financially dependent upon him? If not, you are role modeling your choices and behavior to your very own children.
You love your children more than his, so why should he not love his own children before yours? Where is their real dad?
Teens from broken homes act out. Period. You moved into this mess, thinking what? That they were angels and would weather this upheaval in their lives like it was no big deal. That their dad has a new honey who sets the rules for him now? I don't think you understand teens very well. And your own children will be there in less than 10 years, and probably have a lot of resentment towards a step father who doesn't care for them or prioritize them much.
This all sounds doomed. But if he said he'll go to counseling, perhaps you can mutually agree to some parenting terms there. He treats his 2nd daughter this way probably out of guilt.
And resentment ruins relationships, including marriages that aren't real yet.
Lots of responses, so I apologize if I'm repeating. The issues here are way bigger than his kids/your kids.
If he loved your kids as much as he loved his own, I would be worried he didn't love his kids enough. Sorry, but the love you have for the children you created should be stronger than any otherl ove you ever have. Loving others is absolutely possible and normal, but I love my 3 kids more than anyone or anything in this world.
You aren't married yet - GOOD! RUN!! This is not the way to start a marriage and family.
WOW! The red flags here are glaring like the Las Vegas strip!
I absolutely think that you all did the right thing by kicking the 18 year old out. Her behavior was unacceptable and you cannot risk the safety of the little children in the house because of her poor decisions.
I am of a different opinion here though. I DO put my children first and would expect my spouse to do the same. I believe that he does have an obligation to maintain a relationship with both his children. Without knowing all the details, I don't know how far that relationship should go before it becomes enabling and detrimental to his daughter. I would also guess that it is true that you will always have a special bond and love for your own children that would transcend the love you have for stepchildren that come along later. That being said, there is no reason why someone can't love their stepchildren and bond with them too.
How does he treat your children? It doesn't sound like he treats them at all except as being a nuisance to him. Your children deserve better than that. They deserve to have a father figure that doesn't alienate them. I cannot believe that he actually resents you and your small children for making his daughter leave given the circumstances.
I also think that is sounds fishy that he goes out overnight without you. Do you really know what he is doing? He won't even tell you much about his friends. Does that really sound reasonable to you?
SO, in summary. You have a man that won't stand up for you to his disrespectful daughter. He goes out constantly and won't make you part of many facets of his life. He does not like your kids and does not want to be involved with their lives (Can you imagine dealing with that for at least the next 14 years?). He resents you and your kids for making safety a priority for 4 and 5 year olds.
Why exactly are you with him? Is this really the life that you envisioned for yourself and your kids?
Move out!!!!!
You and your children deserve a man who can love you unconditionally. This man doesn't care about you or your children. You need a man in your life you doesn't remember which kids are his or which are yours.
If you have a wedding date set, postpone it. You've got work to do. The first thing I'd do is move out/have him move out. After that, get into counseling, not just couples, but family so that the daughter can be involved.
Although you may be willing to put up with this, I think it would be totally unfair to your children to marry a man who can not love your children like his own. It is past time to move on. Your children need to come before this man.
Ok Mama, Listen to that voice inside that is telling you this is not ok. I know it is hard to break ties and start over but bottom line, this guy is not into you or your children. Do not hitch your childrens' emotional lives to a man who does not love them or want to love them. No matter what words he says, his actions say it all. He is not marriage or father material.
My kids are young, like yours, so I haven't been where he is. But, try and picture how much pain he must be in. His 18 year old daughter might be 18, but she's still his daughter. He loves her just as much as you love your kids. Try to think about how hard that must be for him to watch her making poor decisions and just wanting to help her. He doesn't really know what to do about it, but he knows he loves her.
I don't think you realize it, but really you are asking him to choose. You are asking him to choose between you and his baby, and that's not really fair. There's no way for him to win. And really, he should choose her. She is his baby, his flesh and blood. If she can't count on her Daddy, who can she count on? She's lost, and he knows that she needs him.
If you want this relationship to last, the two of you are going to have to get on the same page. Right now, you want it to be your way. But you need to hear what he's thinking and feeling and really be willing to listen. And he needs to have a better relationship with your kids, but you can't just dictate that to him. He has to want it. You both have to be happy with these relationships and decisions. If you can't make that happen, I'm not sure either one of you is going to be happy.
I think you already have your answer--right from the horses moth. He flat out told you "he can't love them as much as he loves his kids, that it's just not biologically possible."
What more do you need to hear?
As for his daughter? He's enabling her. Lots if parents do this. I have seen that go in for DECADES. 6 months is nothing.
Now that you know the facts of how he feels. It's up to you to stay or go. Bit of you stay, stay with your eyes open. Men don't change. Truer words were never spoken. That's why it's SO important to choose wisely when picking a mate. Because its for life. You have two children, besides yourself to consider here. They NEED you to choose wisely.
There ARE times when NO man really IS better than A man, don't you think?
He is your fiancé, not your husband according to your headline, but later you call him your spouse. Are you legally married? How committed is he to you and your two children? Since he is spending so much time with his friends and not involving you, I see some red flags. It seems he has a big case of guilt over his daughter (at what age was she caught in the divorce?). I am glad he is trying to keep a line of communication open with her, but it was smart to kick her out of the house for that bad behaviors. He probably has lots of issues with this. Besides couples counseling for the both of you, perhaps he could go to counseling with her. Many parents in that situation end up with a "tough love" approach - they have to learn to love their kids, but to stop enabling them to do destructive behaviors. You are expecting too much for him to sever ties with his daughter. Good luck.
I think that a spouse comes first SOME of the time, and the kids come first SOME of the time. It's a balancing act. I would leave my husband if he ALWAYS put his daughter first and never me, but I wouldn't want a man who did not think of his daughter. Sometimes her needs come before mine. Sometimes it's the opposite. And so we balance it.
Your man is not willing to do this. It's all very clear. I would begin to separate yourself from him and his daughter, and prepare to leave. You all deserve someone better.
And why do you want to marry this person? Obviously you are feeling neglected or abandoned, whether justified or not. This will only continue to bring out the worst in you- the negative feelings, jealously, etc. This all sounds like a recipe for disaster.
BTW- One thing I completely disagree with you on- Children should always be #1, not a boyfriend, or even a husband. If you don't see it that way with your own children, and this guy is #1 over your kids, then you have much bigger personal problems you need to work through.
Are you willing to put him before your own children?
Sorry, but my kids will ALWAYS come first in my life.
Why on Earth would a good Christian woman expose her children to the kind of things you are exposing your children to? I thought commitment and marriage came before cohabitation. I also thought it was just good common sense to choose a man who loves and values your children just as much as you do.
Stop thinking from below the waist and start thinking about what is best for your kids, not what is best for you and a man who clearly doesn't sound right for you.
Um, how can you have an expectation for something that another person has told you - in no uncertain terms - that he cannot provide?
Things are always rosy in the beginning of relationships. You are at the point where the rubber meets the road.
He would be OUT of mine and my children's lives but that's just me. Only you can make that decision. You've got a long way left in this parenting journey, and it's hard enough without hauling along someone who doesn't want to be there.
JMO.
I read your message and most of the other posts, many with good advice. The next post you write needs to say "EX" fiancé.
YOU DESERVE better, this man is as immature as his children. So sorry you are going through this, but red flags are everywhere.
I see so many marital red flags here, the post is practically glowing. If it were me (or you were my daughter - I can say that 'cause I may be old enough to be), I'd call a time out, separate so that you each have your own homes, get some counseling to help establish -- or even determine if you can agree on -- healthy parenting boundaries. If you can stay the course through that process, you'll know whether this relationship is strong enough to go the distance and weather the challenges of step parenting. Do it for your little ones, who certainly don't need the trauma of adjusting to a step father only to have the relationship end in divorce. Good luck.
I think this is not a black and white situation. No one is totally right or wrong.
My husband and I adore each other, but our kids needs rule our lives. We make them number one. That does not mean it is okay to ignore one another, but these are our children and our greatest pleasure. I think if he were more attentive to your children you would be less upset. That is not to say he may not be enabling his daughter in an unhealthy way, but try to imagine your little darlings struggling. You might be more willing to compromise if this girl was your own child. You may love and care about her, but it does not sound like you love and care about her the same as you would your own children.
I am not criticizing you. I just think this is the way it may be because the girl is a problem and you did not parent her as an innocent child.
I think you could be more understanding and I think your financé could be less enabling. No one is perfect.
I am going to say since you complain that your fiancé NEVER puts you or your children first that I think you need a break from one another. If he wants to pay his daughters cell phone and have dinner with her a couple of nights a week (without you because you can't tolerate her) then I see nothing wrong with that, but if he never helps out with the kids or is with you...... what is the point of this relationship?
What efforts do you make for him with his children? His daughter may be a problem, but could you totally ever cut off your own children? There has to be a middle ground on both sides.
Seek counseling or consider a separation. You may love each other but if you cannot be a team when it comes to the children then you are defeated before you start.
Sorry to be so honest. I don't think anyone is totally wrong or right here. It's just a tough situation and one that may mean the two of you aren't right for each other at this point in time.
They are his children....and he rightfully should be concerned and try to help her. I don't think you should be putting him over your children either.
First, he's willing to go to counseling, do it.
There are other things you are not going to be able to get around. First, he may be very, very worried about his daughter, so paying her phone bill means that he can actually stay in touch with her and have access to knowing she's okay. The same with scheduling dinners.She does need her dad, just not in a way that you have experienced because your kids are very young still.
What I also have to wonder is how did/IF he and his ex make such hash out of parenting that she is so furious and angry? Maybe he was equally 'checked out' of his relationships with she and her mom because they were hard and now he finds himself playing catch-up. Who knows?
I do think your expectations are too high and that you aren't seeing the signs which are right in front of you. Personally, were I a single mom, I would never, ever move in with a man without being married to him first. Marriage is hard even without the obstacles and challenges you and your fiance are faced with. But what you said about him just being checked out and texting/hanging out with his friends and needing to 'escape' is troubling. I've seen guys exhibit this behavior and unfortunately, I haven't known it to improve. (One of these guys is a friend of mine, too... I love him dearly but hate to see how he is conducting his relationships.)
You are engaged to be married. What you are seeing right now is what you are going to get. This is how he is coping--by withdrawing. Asking him to love your kids as much as he loves his is really asking more than a lot. Listen, even after knowing my dad and my step-mom for the past 28 years (I met them when I was 14), I *know in my heart* that my step-mom loves me very, very much AND I know that she does love my half-sisters more. It's just how life sometimes is. It's the rare step-parent who loves their stepkids JUST as much as their bio kids; this is truly the exception, not the rule.
Will the counselor be able to make your man see the light and change his ways? I don't know. I do know my friend who behaves this way was fired by his counselor (basically told: If you aren't going to truly change what you are doing, we are done here because you are wasting our time.)I think people can change if they are willing to do the hard work, make hard changes in how they behave and thing, and if they truly want to do it to be happier for their own selves or within their relationship. I'd proceed with caution. If he's already acting resentful, maybe it's time to look at other options. I know you love this guy, but if you feel that he will always treat your kids as 'less than' you owe it to them to find someone who is better suited to being a parent of young children.
I put my daughter above my spouse, and I don't regret having done so. I made the decision to bring her into the world - she had no say in the matter. That meant that until she was grown, my obligation to her trumped any other relationship I had.
But paying her bills while she is doing nothing to even attempt to support herself is not in her best interest in the long run. That's not a question of kid vs spouse, it's a question of emotionally crippling the kid.
At one point, I kicked my daughter and her boyfriend out of my house, And it was the best thing I could have done for her. It made her see just how badly she had screwed up and she set to work at making amends for it.
I have three step-children whom I love dearly. And if I had to choose between them and my daughter, I would choose her. But when they were growing up, I didn't give her preferential treatment over them. He doesn't have to love your kids the same as his own, but he does need to treat them the same as his own.
Sounds to me like he isn't ready for a relationship past that with his daughter, as messed up as that relationship is.
Relationships shouldn't be this hard. You both should be happy MOST of the time. If you aren't then something is wrong. The thing that is wrong is that his actions speak louder than his words. Love is not enough. There's lots of things that make a great marriage. You are LUCKY you are not married yet. Time to move on and find someone else that will REALLY love you AND your children. Good luck.
My child will ALWAYS come first. If anyone wanted me to kick him out of my house, that person would be the one leaving.
And while I may be able to love another person's children, I will NEVER love anyone the way I love my own child.
Do you love his children exactly as much as you love your own?
Would you send your kids to live with their father since spouses come first and your fiancé resents them?
I say leave the fiancé & find yourself a man who doesn't have kids of his own. That way the only ones to compete with you for his attention will be your own children.
1) Spouse does come before children, when they are children OF the marriage. When the children are pre-existing, then they come first so long as they are minors.
2) Your children are young and I am not clear why you are sharing your home with your "fiance" for over 6 months now and still are not married, when you have young children like you do. Your children are not his biological children, correct? How long had you been dating him before you moved in together?
3) He is enabling her, and you can't change him. He will not stop just because you say so. He needs counseling to deal with the situation with his daughter.
4) His staying out all night and having friendships/relationships that you are not involved in or have no knowledge of is not how I understand a normal relationship to work. There are issues there that have nothing to do with his daughter and it doesn't sound like he plans to change that dynamic.
I think I'd be moving on...
If you are having so much trouble seeing "eye to eye" with your fiance before you are even married, then how do you expect to have the strong, solid marriage to model for your children??
Spouses often disagree on many things, but it comes down to things you can compromise and things you can't and those things where you can't, you need to learn to live with. It sounds like you need to decide if these issues are things that you can learn to live with or if it is better to cut your losses and find a man who is a better match for you and your children.
Well, I think you are both right and wrong. You were completely justified in not allowing that behavior in your house. It is not acceptable to bring men and/or drugs into your house with two small children.
However, she is 18 and you are expecting her to instantly behave like an adult. She needs tools. You threw her into the deep end of the pool and expected her to swim. And, you are upset that your fiance is throwing her a life vest. That is his child. Would you really do that to your own children? I kind of doubt it. You would give them the tools to swim, instead of watching them drown and shake your head.
So you say spouse first. Let's say he says your kids are doing stuff that he finds unacceptable and they must go live with dad or some other relative.
How soon should they pack? That's the choice you're trying to get him to make. His children should come before you. They're his children.
This girl needs a parent who will stand up for her and help her. She's too old to commit to rehab but she certainly sounds like she needs it.
I think as long as you expect him to put you, then your kids, then his kids first you're going to be in a world of hurt. He's not going to do that nor should he be with someone that is trying to make him choose their kids over his own. That's what you're really trying to do here.
I suggest that you two sit down and talk. Listen to him. He loves his child and IS going to do what he can to support her and be with her when he can because he's the only normal person in her life. She needs him.
I think he should move out and move her back in with him so he will have more influence on her. Obviously where she is living since she has no home is not healthy. That's part her choice to do what she was doing but if your kids weren't there...well, at 18 she's an adult and can have overnight guests if she wants. The drugs and stuff, that's got to go. She needs to be in rehab so she can learn different habits.
If he abandons her now like you want he is setting her up to fail, to live with this guy then that guy then some other guy just so she can have a roof over her head. She'll never get an education or finish any sort of training to get a job that will support her.
She needs her dad, he's her dad, he needs to dump you and take care of his child first. That's the way it should be. Kids first before spouse.
I haven't read all replies, sorry! But here is my opinion.
You want to paint a pretty picture for your kids and show them the value of good relationships and how each person should be treated in a family. Your intentions are right, because kids follow what they see. And as parents we want to set the right example for them. But then - it's too late! All the kids are from broken homes!!! If you had tried this hard(not saying you didn't) in your relationship with their dad and stayed with him, it would be different. But now your kids already know marriages are not permanent, there are fights, misunderstandings and couples split and move on with their lives because it's impossible for them to be together. What you are trying to avoid in their life - has already happened!!
And now, I understand , you want this relationship to work , so your kids regain faith in marriage and healthy relationships. But you seem to have chosen the wrong man unfortunately. The issue with the daughter is secondary. The man itself doesn't seem interested in the relationship - he never spends time with you, prefers his friends over you, never home at nights... all these are serious red flags.
Of course, I can understand why he is so upset about his daughter being thrown out. Of course he will love his kids more than you or yours. And I think you are doing a mistake putting your spouse before your kids. It shouldn't be that way. They are still so little, and this 'spouse' is not their dad. It's a stranger to them , who doesn't love them as much, and doesn't care for his mom too(acc to what you have explained) - and you are putting him first?? I really feel sorry for your kids. Please don't do that. Your kids should come first anytime. If you were with their biological dad , then it's different. Then it would not matter who came first or second. But now it does- it really really does. The kids need to know they have their mom no matter what - they are always her first priority no matter what.
Since you are not married , I would suggest moving on and finding someone else. In fact, I really don't know why you still with this man and trying to make this relationship work. You are not married to him , and with all these red flags and with little kids involved - you really should not even think of marriage with him (in my opinion). He may be a great guy , but not for you. He doesn't seem interested in you or your kids at all.
My question is - why would you want to marry this guy? He doesn't spend time with you - spends nights away from home with his friends even when you've said you don't like it. You say he resents you. I see nothing here that would indicate that you have anywhere close to a healthy relationship. Does he have any redeeming qualities? Because you haven't mentioned any here.
Well, I think it sounds like you are jealous of his relationship with his younger daughter. How old are you, may I ask? Because, I think with age comes a bit of wisdom, and certainly some security in your own relationships...
Second, all the behavior you described of your boyfriend does not cast a very flattering light on his character. Go back and objectively read your post. Are you sure this is the man you want raising your children?
My advice is that this may not be the right relationship for you OR your kids.
There are a couple of issues going on here. The counseling is a great first step, you can only wait and see if he will listen or not.
He is not wrong to want to spend time with his daughter, and there is nothing wrong with a father helping a young 18 year old CHILD out once in a while with a bill or by buying her dinner. That said, you were also fully within your rights as a parent to insist on the safety of the younger children in the home by having her move out.
My biggest concern as a mother would be his comment that he could never love your children as much as his own, that he think it is not biologically possible. I would never allow my children to be raised by a man who viewed them as less then his own bio children. This can be something that can discussed in therapy, but if he truly does not feel that fatherly love for them then no way would I ever marry him. Maintaining a special relationship with ones spouse is very very important, but children always come first.
IMHO, the spouse should be the number one priority. I answered another post this morning and said the same thing. Whether I'm right or wrong, my hubby needs to be on my side. In private, he can argue with me or whatever, but he should stand by me against anyone and everyone in the world. Period.
Since you're not married, I suggest you start the process of separation. He is obviously not marriage material - at least not to a woman who has children. He is being very honest with you; he does not and cannot love your children like he loves his own. So it will never be the happy family you want. His daughter sounds a lot like mine; she is going to keep taking and keep taking and keep taking and any time that he doesn't give, she is going to blame you. Your relationship with your SO doesn't sound ideal by a long shot. All in all, I can't see why you'd want to stay and definitely can't see any reason why you'd want to marry him.
The 18 year old sounds like she needs help--and I'm glad her dad wants to help. She may legally be an adult, but she's still a kid too. I would be far more concerned about a man that turns his back on his kids in a time of need! I think it would be hard to love other kids as much as your own. Also, there is a huge age difference between your kids and his. Maybe he's over little kids--little kids are a lot of work...he's done that work...his kids are much older. Counseling?
Big big big red flags here about your relationship. Kids aside, his general attitute does not sound like he is as committed to this relationship as you are. And you being the one with small kids, have more to lose here, IMO. Your kids will get damaged by him and his kids growing up in these surroundings if you are not careful. Dont subject them to growing up with a "father" in the house that does not care for them. They would be much much much better off with just you.
I disagree with you about the spouse coming first. For me, the kids always come first. But with that said, for him it sounds like only HIS kids come first, not yours. So now you know where you stand. Are you OK with your kids being like 4th on someone elses list? Nope. Me either. I am sorry to say momma, but this does not sound like a healthy situation. I would NOT marry this man. People DONT change so dont waste your time and subject your kids to all this. Hugs.
I'm glad to see you edited your post. It really does put a better perspective on things.
Maybe you need to ask him what he wants. Can you meet for lunch or find someone to watch the kids so you can have dinner together? I think you need a chance to really listen to what he's feeling and what he wants. If he truly doesn't want to spend time with you and the kids and would rather be with his friends, then maybe he needs to think about why he's in this relationship at all.
You might need to listen to him talk about his daughter and his feelings and thoughts about her. It's awfully easy for us (my boys are 4 & 7) to think we know what we would do if our 18 year old ... It's another to actually be in that situation. Try to think back to a time when you were a young adult with no kids. I can remember times when I saw my sister with her kids and thought about how I would do things differently. Yeah, right. I completely see her perspective now. Also, there were many times I was at the grocery store and say a mom handle a situation with their kids and thought about how I would handle it differently. Again, I had no idea what it's like.
It might really be time to listen to him. Really try to hear what he has to saw. Take a break and think about it and come back to him later to talk about it some more. But really try to listen to how he's feeling.
You don't have an 18 year old kid that you raised from birth, so you don't know what you would do. Just food for thought.
The not knowing elements of his personal life (friends, etc), him spending the night out of the house often w/ said "friends" would be an enormous problem for me. Truthfully, when I got to the end of your post and saw that you said that you're not married, I breathed a sigh of relief for you. This would be a no-brainer for me, I'd move on with my children. He obviously resents them, is not willing to be a roll-up-your-sleeves father to them and the issues with his 18 year old ... well, you guys really need to be on the same page with that one and you obviously aren't and who knows if you ever will be w/ his propensity to baby her.
I don't know, I'd personally be done. Sorry I don't have better advice.
Any relationship with this many issues BEFORE marriage is pretty well doomed. End things ASAP and move out. If you're worried about hurting your kids by doing so (assuming they've bonded with him or whatever) than think twice next time before moving in with a man that you (apparently) didn't really know all that well.
Souses should come first....that relationship definitely needs to be protected. But you don't currently have a spouse, so the kids need to come first. They need stability and love, even if that means it's only coming from you for the next few years. Wait for the man God has for you and when you find him, take your time. Let him court you (for a LONG time), put Christ at the center of your relationship, and then marry the man and move in with him. Those are the relationships that last! The ones that are done right from the beginning....
I think the long and short is that you need premarital counseling or family counseling.
You may love his kids like they are your own but for me it's apples and oranges. I like them both, but I like oranges more. DD and I have a relationship that doesn't have a lot of drama or strings attached. There's no third party or divided loyalties. It's harder to love the sks sometimes. And it sounds like the issue isn't necessarily that he loves his kids "more", but that he's catering to his 18 yr old, which is an issue unto itself. I think he may need a 3rd party to work through where he is with his daughter and what is reasonable and what is not. You can't always save someone from themselves, but sometimes in trying to do so, they are the only ones that get the attention. It's an iceberg. So see the beginning of my post.
ETA: His resentment may also be grief at losing his daughter. But a good counselor will help him see that he's taking it out on you and children who are far too small to be without a parent. It is not their fault that his 18 yr old ran off the rails, and it is unfair to blame them (or you) for her behavior. He's projecting.
Your situation sounds very familiar,although you are not married yet,have you tried creating an environment as if you were. Have you thought about the situation as if it were your bio-child,What would you do?My perspective would to have treated her as my child and not another woman's,We tend to feel insecure and overpowered at times when we set the rules.You have to treat the situation equally,if your bio had turned to this route,would you have kicked her out probably not,you'd find a way to get through to her/him and not give up.On the other hand your so called spouse doesn't seem to respect or consider you or your children as much as you would like him too,it just seems like a punishment for what you've done to his daughter,which is childish so i would really reconsider or give it some serious thought before walking that isle......GOOD LUCK to you....
A happy household means a happy marriage first and foremost. I believe that you must have a healthy marriage in order to have a healthy family.
The issues here are multiple, though.
You should not have insisted on kicking his daughter out of the home. That was his DAUGHTER. Did it occur to you that her choice in sexual behavior and men is a direct reflection of her self-esteem and that she's looking for a masculine relationship to take the place of the father-daughter relationship? Her father needs to FATHER HER rather than kick her out. He needs to be her soft place to land and be her protector and her guide but instead he listened to the new woman in his life and kicked her out of his home.
So bad for their relationship. There had to be another way. You could have asked her to be more responsible about her sexual relationships by not bringing her "dates" home where the safety of children could be compromised by strange men that no one knows ie. one night stands and hook ups.
And really, not for nothing, but how could you expect him to love your children "as much as" he loves his own? That's not a fair expectation. You may claim that you love his children as if they were your own, but let's be honest here... he's not you. Your children aren't his children and the issue about kicking your children out isn't even on the radar. They're not even tweens yet. And you simply can't fairly expect him to feel as you do when you ARE expecting him to kick out his daughter when he disagrees on the course of action that's appropriate. He's her parent, not you. And she's an adult child to boot. The simply fact that she's 18 meant that, arbitrarily, it was legal to kick her out. Had she been 16 years old and behaving the same way you couldn't have done it. You'd have been forced to find a solution and to care enough about her to work through it.
When you blend your family, that means you're blending the issues that come along with the new spouse. I really don't think you, as the fiancee, had the right to expect him to kick his daughter out of his home. It wasn't fair to him or his daughter. It wasn't fair to use your children as the excuse because now he's resentful of you all. And the only way to repair this is to allow her back in, or I foresee a broken engagement very soon.
My bf and I are having a baby soon, and even though he doesn't have any children of his own, I feel your pain on so many levels.
My bf doesn't spend any time with us anymore, and when I try to talk to him about the fact that he comes home from work, goes down to the basement and sits there watching TV by himself, or decides to go to his cousins house and drink all night and stay there bc he doesn't want to drive home after drinking, I get this answer: "I can't do this after the baby is born so why don't you leave me alone and quit nagging me all the time?"
My point is that if he cares enough about his own kid to participate in "family life" after the baby is born, why doesn't he care enough about my son and I to make an effort now, when I have made it clear that it's a problem for me???
Unlike some of the other people on here who see these situations as a no-brainer, I understand that there may be other reasons that you cannot simply walk away from this relationship. I also understand what it's like when you are just trying to find some stability for your children. Like yours, my relationship was nothing like this in the beginning, and I would have never made it this far had I seen this coming before I got pregnant. But now that I have committed so much I think it unreasonable to not exhaust every possibility before giving up. I know that a big part of our issue is simply a communication problem, so I intend on trying to find a good counselor who can mediate and try to make sense of all these things. I recently put my foot down about the whole staying out all night thing; I know he is at his cousins and isn't up to anything (like cheating), but I don't care...normal mature people living together in a relationship don't behave that way. He's your fiance, not your room mate. I waited until a weekend that my son went to his father's house, and went to spend the weekend in Pittsburgh with my best friend and our other MALE friend and didn't invite him, and didn't text or call him all weekend. I told him if he could do whatever he wanted, then so could I. That put a stop to the staying out all night really fast. I know it seems petty and punitive, but sometimes you just need to put yourself on their level to make it clear to them how it feels to be treated that way. I figured he would either "get it" or leave, and if he couldn't "get it" then he needed to leave anyways.
Good luck to you xo
There are really two separate problems here and they sound like they are beginning to become enmeshed. First problem is the step daughter. Kicking her out is not helping her. Letting her live with you but enabling is not helping her. those are extremes that will never help her find her way. She needs help and she needs to live in a house with people who will love her and support her with good boundaries. She needs to understand she can and should live with you as you are her family. She either needs to be continuing her education or if not, getting a job to contribute to household expenses. Rules and boundaries must be followed, and you need to pick what is most important to you. For example, no drugs allowed. Maybe give a bit on the boys over and make sure she has adequate birth control. And just so you know this is coming from someone who does not believe in sex before marriage, but some situations require compromise for all parties. She can learn to be discreet and respectful in having her boyfriends over, but again there must be no drug use. If she breaks the rules you have to come with consequences that do not involve kicking her out. She needs to do certain chores, or give her some responsibility like picking up the little ones from school, even if she needs to take a bus to do it. She could make dinner one night. Maybe fold laundry. But start with things that are not totally going to be opposed or that don't matter as much if not done, for example dusting or dishes are not good choices, because there are not a lot of natural consequences if it isn't done. Not making dinner she has see everyone waiting for food and hungry, etc.
Second issue, relationship with fiancee. It sounds like your putting your foot down on kicking his daughter out has affected his relationship with all of you. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but it is. So dealing with that first issue may help this one, but you also need to really focus on your relationship. I am not one to run at the first sign of conflict. And likely everyone is reacting to the daughter issue. So you not being put number one may not be right, but you are not putting him number one either. You are saying for you and your kids, his daughter whom he loves and wants with him, has to go. If you put him first you would find a way to work with his daughter keeping her there. So you are both doing the same thing. Neither one of you is putting each other first, and one of you will step up and start the process and make sure you are being assertive if you do. Again, his daughter can live with you but she needs to follow the rules or else have consequences. 18 year olds can be worked with and sometimes need hands on just like a toddler. That takes care of his desire to have his daughter with him and your desire to protect your kids. It puts both of your needs first. Right now you are actually getting your needs met and he is not. There is compromise where everyone including your step daughter and your children can get their needs met. It is not an easy road, but if you love each other and want to continue in this relationship it will take work. All relationships do, and all relationships have their problems. You may a have a more difficult problem here, and only you can decide if it is worth it to you stick it out and work through it. You need to both sit down and talk about your relationship and how you feel and what you want. You both need to speak your needs and ask for what you need and then find a solution that meets both your needs. As I said right now, your needs are being met but not his. Now if one or both of you cannot compromise to meet each other's needs, maybe you should move on. But I would really try to talk it out, try to find a solution you can both live with. Right now both of you are feeling hurt and misunderstood. Both of you are reacting. That is all normal, but you need to walk through the reactions and find the middle ground. It is there I guarantee it. It is not going to be easy for either one of you. But if you want to be together it is necessary. I hope this helps some.
