Getting a License to Have Kids

Without reading all the answers...just a thought. We make people pass a driving test to get a driver's license BUT that is NO guarantee that they will be good drivers...

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.
Reread Momofmany's post.
Then read it again!
She's right. This is no light matter!!

In High School we were required to take a parenting class. I was 16 or 17 at the time, and failed it miserably (I even forgot to take the electronic baby home a couple of different times). But, because I failed that class, I don't think it makes me a bad mom.

But, I agree. Some people shouldn't have kids. I think if you don't have the financial backings, you shouldn't have more then what you can afford. I understand people go through hard times, but being on welfare for 5-10+ years is ridiculous. And it's funny, because when I needed help for 4 months, I couldn't get help, but there were people going into the DHS office with nicer clothes, nicer cars then I had and their kids were all decked out in name brand stuff. It was irritating. I was told to get rid of my house and my car and I would be able to make it on what I got on unemployment.

It's sad that so many kids have to suffer because of their 'parents' choices.

in an ideal world, yes but its much like communism -- great in theory, falls apart in real life.

Its a nice thought but would you really want the government having control of that? I mean really.

I hope your question is in jest. The government has FAR too much control over us already.

I just wish that more of those people that are having babies and are not ready to be parents would give them up for adoption. There are a great many of us "hoop jumpers" ready to dedicate their lives to loving these babies.

Personally, I don't believe that classes or books prepare anyone for the real life challenges that children bring. I read books, talked to friends who had children before I embarked on the journey myself and I have to say that I was no more prepared than if I had not read anything at all. Sadly, you are either a good parent or not. How you were brought up, in my opinion, will mirror in your parenting and some people just should not have children.

None of the books I've ever read prepared me for the intense amount of love I would feel for my children; none of the books prepared me for how hard it would be to send them off to school for the first time, and not one book prepared me for the frustrating moments when my children won't listen. Parenting, for most, is trial and error and hopefully many can say that they learned pretty quick what worked and what didn't.

Although it would be nice if some "parents" weren't allowed to have kids, if you had to get a license, that's just more gov't intrusion and don't we already have enough of that?!

However, it's not a bad idea to require females (and males too) who are already on gov't assistance(our money) to have a bc implant.

We've looked into adopting and have postponed it DUE to all the hoops! We would love to adopt out of foster care but they require (in MN) to be licensed in foster care to do that.

That requires something like 16 hours of training a year, including keeping up a CPR, first aid, car seat training, and shaken baby classes. (I've done ALL these already in the past because I used to do daycare BUT I haven't kept them up since I've quit.) We farm and all these classes run during chore times too! So, at this point in our lives, there is just no way that we could even start the process of adopting........

They definitely make it TOO hard in my opinion.

As for the government telling people who can or can't have a baby..... NO WAY!!! They already have their say with almost everything. We do NOT need a regulation about that!

After reading your "what happened" I have to respond.

No woman really has control over their own body either. If they really had control we would never need an abortion clinic because she would say, "We are not going to get pregnant this time" and she wouldn't get pregnant. You wouldn't need IVF because you would be able to say,"This month, we are getting pregnant" and she would. We have freedom, but control and freedom are not the same...

I have thought this at times, but the only way to make it possible, would be to sterilize women until they are deemed ready.. a little too, A Brave New World... or Ender's Game... right, is that the book? It's been years.

However, child and infant psychology classes and courses on self-reliance/work ethics... should be taught in high school, and child care courses should be required for first time mothers. Prepare the men and women to be something.

So many women go to hospitals to have babies, with nothing but maybe a blanket and the required car seat, and neither father nor mother have no clue on how to care for a baby, let alone raise one.

Skipping the actual licensing process and all the inherant problems... how would such a law be enforced?

For breaking the law requiring a licence:
- Forced sterilization? (No birth control is 100% except the complete removal of the uterus or testicles, even removing the ovaries)
- Forced abortion?
- Formaldehyde through the soft spot at birth?
- Forced adoption?

For ensuring that accidental unlicensed pregnancies didn't occur? Impossible UNLESS all girl's were sequestered for a number of years during and shortly following puberty and their ovaries were removed & eggs frozen so that at such a time as they became licensed they could be fertilized in vitro. Of course, removing the ovaries would mean that they would need to be taking hormones (orally, intravenously, or transdermally for the rest of their lives). Conversely, the same could happen for boys, but realistically speaking, the majority of our political system and medical practice is run by men.

Sounds like a wonderful world to never live in.

No to the screening before you are allowed to have kids. I know that there are some truly horrible parents out there. My husband had to kick a family out of his store because the parents were using the kids to hide stolen product! (these were babies)! But I don't want the government telling me when I can or can't have kids and how many I can have and how I have to raise them. It is not the responsibility of the government to come in and raise my kids for me- that is my job! And sometimes I mess up- but I try harder.
Have you ever read "the Giver" by Lois Lowery? That would be what it would be like. Certain women would be assigned the job of having babies, and those babies would be handed out after a year to parents who have applied to have children- each family only given 2 children and when you reach a certain age(puberty) you are given pills to make you sterile so you can't have kids on your own. Great book-btw- but not a life I would ever want to live!
~C.

I think you should be required to take parenting classes before getting pregnant so you could be a timy bit more prepared-just my 2 cents as being a preschool teacher :0)

I was just saying the same thing. Of course it's said as more of a gut reaction to hearing a story about deplorable parenting than an actual good idea. It makes me crazy that in order to adopt you have to have so much money and jump through so many hoops while any idiot can have a baby on their own. It's frustrating. I have 2 young cousins (19 & 20) and one is pregnant now and the other just had her second child. They have no education, no jobs, no means to support a child, and all the children were accidents. My husband and I who are financially stable, understand what's involved in raising a child, prepared, and want to have another child keep having miscarriages. It's unfair.

It is amazing. Many of the people who have babies would not qualify at most animal shelters to adopt a puppy.

Absolutely but how to make actual rules and enforce them is too big a problem... It's absurd that a couple able to provide for a child, are stable, good people etc have such a hard time adopting one child while some people who can't provide a proper home for one child go on to have 5 or 6. Then lots of times, those children grow up without proper guidance so have lots of kids themselves they can't provide for, leaving responsible tax payers to foot the bill. And people wonder why the US is in trouble.

how would that work? forced birth control until approved?
i would be considered fat which some would nto approve of.
i do wish society did not rewqrd people for having babies they can't or won't take care of. it encourages them to have more, which they then ignore too.

Ok ~me and my DH say this all the time - JOKINGLY -of course!!! I honestly dont think that would be a good thing. JMO

Well I agree that is sad what happens to many kids, but think of all the discrimination that would occur from this process. Most people when they think of a good parent aren't think about the welfare mom (although there are some who are very good). When they think of a bad parent they aren't thinking of the rich SAHM, although there are some that are very bad. Plus, if they decide who can have kids, they also can decide how your supposed to parent (i.e. must use this particular style), even if it is not effective with your kids. Just sounds like an all around terrible idea. They make it hard for foster and adoption right now because the government is liable for those kids safety, and even then don't get it right. When a person has their own bio kids, then the parent is responsible for their safety. If they fail then the government can still step in.

Have you ever listened to Love Line? When Adam Carolla was on there he used to say the same thing! Used to crack me up.
I guess it would depend on the screening process. Who says XYZ is a requirement but ABC shouldn't be? How do you make something a requirement that can either be faked, or easily passed.
Do you know how many people I know lie on resume's or employment applications? How about the number of people I know who lied to the bank about their yearly income in order to be approved for a house? How about the realtors that helped them do it? I work in medical, so I see people all the time get past drug screenings. Or the number of mentally unstable people who can hold it together if they need to? I've even known some who lie about the amount of their education.
It doesn't sound like it could ever work. Even if it did make things harder, it wouldn't solve the problem.

No.

I have done both. And I think the adoption screening/training was not tough enough & focused too much on things like finances. The questionaire used to determine if you are a "safe parent" relies on YOUR openness and honesty. How many horrible people are open and honest about it?

Yet...I still think that any process interfering with people having bio kids would become abusive. And again, the screening would likely focus on what I think are the wrong things.

Yep. It amazes me the number of women that bear children with so little thought or consideration.

Procreation is a basic human function/right imho . . . no it is not a good idea to "license" or regulate it, no matter how good the intention.

The frustration over the adoption and foster "hoops" - absolutely. It is ridiculous, but the intention of all those laws and rules is to protect children who have already been dealt one or more bad hands in life.

Seeing what great decisions our Government has made, I would not think they would be good at deciding who can and cannot bear children.........However it really is sad seeing children born to people that have no business raising children. And it is extremely sad that good people that would love to adopt have to jump through a million hoops to be turned down for no good reason.

Well I am pretty happy there were not licensing laws when I was conceived bc I sure would not be here!!! :D That being said I also wish that people who made babies weren't strung out on crack, alcoholics, perverts etc... But I just don't think too hard on those things anymore, every person who comes into this world, regardless of how it happened, is here for a reason and a purpose. Who am I to deny them their shot, even if it is a very rough start. It sounds like you are a foster parent, or trying to be, bless you, that is a challenge to handle even if you do get all through all the gov't hoopla, thanks for helping out ;)

I get what you are saying. In a perfect world everybody would be responsible, respectful, and raise their kids properly - then we wouldn't need the government to make rules & laws to control every detail of our lives! LOL

I doubt that there will ever be a licensing requirement to have kids, but I have known a few parents (and their offspring) who really would have benefited from such a policy. You're right, any fool can get pregnant.

But 'freedom' is a complex concept. People assume it's a right, but if it were truly handled simply as a right, we'd quickly be back in an every-person-for-himself, survival-of-the-strongest mode, and much of what makes a society work would disintegrate. As our forefathers set up the principles of freedom, they were heavily freighted with the assumption of responsibility to the greater good, as well.

"Government" and "law" could be dramatically limited if people voluntarily lived by the principles that allow healthy societies to flourish. But we're human, and not always well educated or well taught by our parents, and selfish by nature, and so we have ever-expanding legislation. (By the way, with proper citizen involvement, "The Government" is not some evil entity designed to disempower the people. The government IS the people.)

I do wish that parenting classes were part of public education by the time kids reach high school. In areas where this has been incorporated, results have been promising.

Thank goodness for all the great moms and dads in the world, many of whom have had to learn on the job.

I see why you are throwing the question out. There are a lot of unfair things in our world. I also think in a society we would want to live in such a thing would be un-enforceable.

Did you see "Harry's Law"? A woman in the US was fired from her Chinese employer for being pregnant with a 2nd child. It brings up some good valid points.

I've said it many times and I firmly beleive this, you should not bring a child into this world unless you are able to financiallly provide for it without any government assistance. I'm reffering to food, diapers, shelter, clothing, health care (including the mothers and birthing costs), the basic needs.

Well the reason why the screening is so intense is because more people are in a position of liability including the State the adoption/fostering takes place. Though the insurance of it probably doesn't make much difference most would be griping if they didn't do it.
And as for rigorous screening to physically bear children well that would be close to living in a communist country wouldn't you think?
C.

I don't think that a license is appropriate, though I have thought about things like this! In a recent article I wrote, "Happier Family By Design...Kids First?" http://bit.ly/g3vJ1q I was looking at the numbers of babies being born to single moms as well as the number of happy marriages happening AFTER having kids, and really more than a test someone has to take, I came to thinking that a real commitment, like between each parent and each kid, was more appropriate than marriage. Kind of complicated I suppose but I was pointing out that people change when they have kids, and it breaks up relationships. If we have kids first, when we search for love we'll find people who like the "us" we will be for a much longer time than before having kids for the most part.

The only problem is who decides and what are the requirements. I have thought about this a lot seeing parents that just dont seem to care, or ones that have more just to collect more welfare money . My biggest fear is what if some one decided that maybe I didnt make enough money or live in the right community or a number of things they might deem wrong to get the liscense. There was that one movie where that happened and everyone actually became sterile, then there was one poor girl who got pregnant and they had to put her in hiding.
To me the people who would decide whats acceptable (the government) ar the same people who have helped this economy fall the way it has, I personally dont tryst any one to tell me if I am an appropriate canadite for a parent or not.

add- also some of the poeple who on paper you would think might not make good parents turn out to be great ones. As far as drivers liscense goes, they actually have to drive a car to pass, you cant have people practice being a parent, because you arent until you have a child of your own.

I think that people should be made to pass a rigorous psychological evaluation before having kids. My mom made the mistake of marrying a very violent man but she said when they met he was real nice. Yes, I've met a lot of 'really nice' men but once involved w/ea other & he wanted kids, he then turned violent & one was verbally abusive, so I do see some point in doing something to make sure people make good parents.

I 100% agree and think that it is sad what kids go through now a days due to irrisponsible parenting. There are thousands of well fit couples who would do anything to have a child and go through years of fertility while unfit parents are having kids by the thousands. I wish there were more couples who were open to fostering or adopting children (preferably american children but I don't want to start that debate). I am assuming that you are trying to foster or adopt and are having a hard time. All I can say is that I am glad that you are willing to jump through all those hoops to provide a better life for a child that was born into an unfair situation and I hope that you don't let this change your mind about wanting to do this. I hope this helps.

lets license, too many people in the world. Can not go anywhere without waiting or standing in line or traffic...Five kids per family is too much ( it is my opinion), unless you very rich and healthy!

I agree that people should have to take parenting classes but I would hate for anyone to tell me if I could have children.

I get your theory but no theory like this could ever be implemented fairly or effectively by frail humans (hell--the licensing program would probably be designed and run by men anyway and therefore be doomed from the start).

That said, I guess we kinda already have some (though not as effective as they should be) "licensing agencies" in place:

1.) Child protective services. They decide every day that someone should no longer be a parent. Far too many abused children slip thru their net IMO.

2.) Evolution. Survival of the fittest will winnow out the bad parents though of course evolution is only visible over millennia and cannot be felt in our lifetime.

I think you should be recreational drug free and not an alcoholic, maybe mentally stable either with or without medications... that's about it tho. Every woman has a different outlook, parenting technique, etc - - but parenting classes as part of your prenatal package would be ideal!