Eight Year Old with an Attitude

Hello M.,

Sibling Rivalry is normal. I have an 8 year old and a 3 year old and am 40 years old. It is difficult, but every once in a while my boys do play nicely together. Now for the attitude problem. My oldest had a real attitude problem up to the point where he would throw things at us and all. I got him into a good Martial Arts program in Tucson and the problem stopped for the most part. If you want the information on the studio and location and all, please let me know and I will give it to you. My son's behavior changed drastically within 2 weeks of starting and he is slightly Autistic. I imagine it would do wonders for a child that isn't. I am there for every one of his classes and it has really changed my boy's attitude. I have also joined the adult classes and love it. Anyway. If you want to exchange stories or just want someone to talk to that has been there. let me know.

D. P.

Hi, M.
Believe me, I share your pain! Up until Dec. of last year, I went through the same ordeal! I found my son had ADHD and with meds it has eased some. I still have some of these issues but to a lesser degree. I find that he gets into trouble, he later tries to pin something else on his sibling to get her in trouble as well. If you should get some helpful responses, please send them my way. Sorry I couldn't be of any help. Good luck!
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My boys are much younger than your 8 year old, but this works for me. For my 4 year old: If he acts violent I take away toys/ activities that promote violence (which happen to be his favorite: super heros, star wars, etc). I tell him "If these things make you destructive and violent, you get them taken away" Also, he is much happier and well-behaved if i give him a task and we work together. I have the opportunity to praise him (instead of telling him what he's doing wrong and saying no all of the time) I have the opportunity to give him choices (which make him feel like he has some control over his life). I try at every turn to show him that he should model good behavior for his little brother ("Show baby how you sit in your chair right") and when baby is older I will press big brother to work together and to teach his little brother.

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C.

I have 2 older girls that are 11/14 & they have always fought.. I tried everything but the older they got the less it has become (not stopped but less). When they were younger tho I found that making an attitude chart helped a little & we still use it today they get to pick something they want to work for & we take a picture of it & hang it up by the chart soit's there to remind them everyday & when they have a good day (no hitting, screaming, crying etc..) then they get a check, star what ever you want to do & then at the end of the 2 weeks or month what ever you decide at the beginning they have to have so many out of the month & then they earn there prize... I have noticed tho the less I tell them to get along the more I find them doing stuff together.. As far as the it's not fair I don't think that word will ever go away.. Good luck & COngrats on being cancer free.. We have been through alot of Cancer in our family as well some ending not good & some ending good.. ANd the stress you are feeling & coping with your boys feel & it could just be they are scared but don't know how to tell you so they lash out to get your attention more..

I believe that everyone with more than one kid has either gone through this or is going through it. There is going to be resentment. There is going to be that copying going on. All our kids are different so they way we handle this should be different for everyone. My kids are 15 and 10 and are still doing it. It often ends in tears. I have a star chart that I have up. It's not for chores but for actions...like picking on the other and p[ushing buttons to being able to calm the fight down, all sorts of things. When they do something good for one another (say something sweet, let the other go first or choose the TV station) they get a star, something bad a negative star. When there are 5 stars they get to pick from the jar (I raise it high so they can't see inside). Inside I have poker chips. I black one is worth a $5 gift card, a white is $10 and a green is $20. There aren't too many green. I have cards from many different stores. I let them pick their card from another jar (they can't see it) to keep it exciting. They love getting their good stars and cringe when they get a bad one. Yes, they'll be nice to the other kid and then turn around and say "can I get a star for that?" and I give it to them for their good behavior. Unfortunetly for them there are also a lot of negatives so picking from the jar doesn't happen too often (once every 2 weeks or so). Anyway they still fight but it helps.

It sounds like your son is acting out to so he can get the attention away from the 2 yo. You got to understand for 6 years he was the only one and then all of a sudden he has to share the attention. I never really had probems when my kids were 8 years old. But my 8 year old now is somewhat a problem. He was daddy's boy for three years and then we had the baby. He was very jealous at first and but eventually dealt with it. The baby is now almost five and he is 8 and we are starting to notice more of an attitude in part because the baby is so spoiled by my husband that the 8 year old is outspoken about things and tends to 'talk back' becasue he hasn't developed the skills yet to relay what it is he wants to say so he acts out by throwing things or getting an attitude or tearing things up. His big thing is when he had to give his brother a turn on the game or give up the dvd player he will turn it off instead of just pausing it and letting the other have it. We are working on his behavior with him and alot of times it is just that he doesn't feel he has a say that it is always about the younger one. And that is a problem my husband needs to work on also.

just answering quickly, because I could write a book. In addition to the things you ahve taken away, i'd have some sort of immediate consequence for the crying/hitting/dirty look/back talk behaviors. If these types of things weren't nipped in the bud earlier on though, you may have a rough go of it and I recommend buying some parenting books to back track through things and get on the right track. My computer messinng up and not typing all the lters so will try to send a further post later

If he has an attitude when you give him direction, take whatever it is away...indefinitely (maybe a week or even more) until the behavior has rectified itself. I'm not sure how long you take things away, but if he thinks he'll get it back in a couple of days, he may think it's worth it to have an attitude. He needs to know that some of the things he gets to do are priveleges that come with age and responsibility. Maybe treat him like the two year old (since he thinks that is what he wants)...two year olds can't play nintendo, or watch certain movies, they take naps, and can't eat the same food. He may change his mind about being treated the same. Boys are rough and tumble and loud, that is normal. Best wishes to you. Just breathe and follow through with him, this too shall pass :)

Hi Marien, I find myself in a very similar situation. I have a 12 year old and a 3 year old. Since my 12 year old was an only child for so long, and was spoiled with all my attention, he has had a very hard time adjusting to having a little brother. I thought this would be easy since he really wanted a sibling, but it has been tough. Ours fight like cats and dogs as well. It was recommended to me to try and get my older one into family counseling. They tell me that this will help him find his proper place in the family and will bring peace. Unfortunately I have not had any success in getting him there. I thought I would at least pass on the advise someone gave me in hopes it will help your family out. I can totally relate to what you are going through and pray every day for peace in our house.

T.

I would Strongly recommend the Love and Logic books / website. It has helped us greatly with the problems we've had being a "blended family". Our kid's ages are all 4 years apart, and with having a 15 y.o., 11 y.o., and an 8 y.o. who are all step-siblings to each other, you can just imagine the behavior/attitude problems we used to have!! The book gives sooo many situational-based advice for certain issues, ages, and ways to discipline that are different than what the average parent tries to enforce. It's definitely worth a try!!!

Pick a punishment and stick to it. The reason why it doesn't work is because he knows you won't follow through. They are smart little buggers. He has figured out how to push your buttons and get away with it.

The second thing I would suggest is letting them duke it out. Boy are going to fight. You can't beat nature. They will discover that they love each other eventually...and then they will fight because they like each other.

I agree with Amanda that you should read the Love and Logic books. They are a wonderful resource. They go through every scenario you can imagine and give you steps to help rectify the behavior you are seeing. At first it is a little difficult to apply these principles because we as parents are stuck in our own ways. Once you start to master them, you will see a huge difference.

One more thing, I noticed someone mentioned that if you haven't already nipped it in the bud, it will be a difficult road for you. Don't give up. Don't think it's too late. It's never too late. Your 8 year old obviously needs structure and boundaries more than he ever has in his life. That is why he is acting this way.

You are obviously a wonderful mother to these boys, otherwise you would be letting someone else deal with this issue instead of looking for direction. Always remember that you are a great mom and that everyone has had to deal with this issue at one time or another. I wish you the best of luck.

Dear M.,

You have a lot on your plate...fighting cancer and all.
Usually parenting has a role in kid's behavior...so yes something you have or have not done is contributing to the behavior you do not like seeing.
(But give yourself some break here...a 2 year old and and 8 year old are in entirely different worlds, and are not easy to keep happy together...esp if the older one feels no responsibility to help care for the younger.) (Many other cultures in the world start having siblings work to watch over and care for younger ones as soon as they can. It is an expected and valued job they have. Something you could think about...once you get the 8 year old working WITH you again.)
There is a LOT of info on dealing with sibling rivalry on the internet. I do like Proactive parenting and Love and Logic. (Both websites)
One of the most valuable things I have heard to work with adults and kids is to start from a point of empathy. you will have to try to see things from your 8 yr old's point of view...listen to him...(not really agree) but at least hear him out. Then he will be less able to say you are not being fair. Being heavy handed so far has not worked...you said so yourself. Time to begin a new strategy.
Even the most experienced folks fall into negative patterns. (I like another book...Raising Resiliant Children) You can continue on this punishment path, and you may "win" with sheer force, but you will not have your sons' happy cooperation or appreciation. Good Luck!!

I haven't read any of the other suggestions, but I would say 'Love and Logic' saved me! There are books, cd's and seminars. First have you ruled out food allergies? Some children need a diet without milk products while others cant handle sugars or chocolate and foods with dyes. It can't hurt to cut out excess sugar and all soda. If he had this behavior before the little one, you could consider having him tested for A.D.H.D. or O.D.D.(Oppositional Defiant Disorder) as well. Your Pediatrician can best guide you. Many children with behavioral issues are genius smart. We had to get past the feeling of 'not my kid'.
I raised five children, including a son with A.D.H.D. and through informational support type groups at his school and reading/researching, we survived it. Even if there is a medical reason, discipline with consistency is a must. From time outs, to grounding of the Nintendo and other toys and sticking to it is how I got through it.
Most likely your 8 your old is dealing with some jealousy and like you said has spoiled behaviors. You still have time to improve on your parenting style and get tough when needs be. He might not like it at first, but you'll have a much happier family. Also if you don't already, make time for Father son and/or Mommy son dates. He may be crying out for some much needed one on one attention. It will make him feel special and create wonderful memories.
Best wishes!

For background, I'm a 41 yr old SAHM with a step-son that's 8 and a son who's 2. It's taken a lot of support from my husband. I take my 8 yr old out on "dates" while my husband watches our other son. That way he feels special and not excluded. He has friends that play nicely with my 2 yr old. I make sure that he has a decent balance between playing with his brother and playing with only his friends. This doesn't mean that they don't have times when they don't get along, they seem to have less conflicts.

My 8 yr old also has "teenaged" attitude problems. We still do the groundings and take away TV/video game privileges. We also have him do time out or if it seems that doing something physical would help more, then I have him do push ups or jumping jacks. Lately, he's been showing his anger by tearing things up and making a mess in his room. My husband and I remind him that it's unacceptable behavior, let him calm down, have him clean up his room and have him work on my husband's punching bag. We let him know that it's okay to be angry or frustrated, but that his display of his emotion is the problem. Then, we offer an alternative or two that's acceptable. We let him pout for a bit, but we also let him know that he can't pout all day. Also, when he gives me the "that's not fair," I let him know that it's not about being fair. It's about consequences for not following the rules and being responsible and respectful. When he really throws a fit, then I let him know that I can treat him like his brother and have the constant attention, but that would mean diapers and sippy cups and all the other things that go along with being 2.

Overall, take time to talk to him and find out what's going on. Most of the time, I find that my 8 yr old doesn't feel like he's being heard. My 8yr old still throws attitude from time to time, but we at least have a plan of discipline that helps me keep my sanity.

I wish you luck and sanity.