Childless Friends

I don't see the grounds for offense that the event is adults only. I have children and have friends with children and without. Frankly the parents I know prefer to know from the outset whether the event is child appropriate or whether they should make child care arrangements.

The invite says no kids - so you need to find a sitter. Sounds like the host agrees with you that the party is no place for kids. So leave them home and have a nice time out with hubby!!!

Well if they are outspoken i would also be. I would ask if they are actually welcome. Is this a Family Event or for singles only...
I wouldn't go if i had any feeling the kids wouldn't be welcome when we get there....

Dear T. -

The christmas invitation clearly stated NO KIDS. I would respect that, and get a sitter for the kids, go and have a good time without kids. I agree with you, that this 'informal' fling needs some clarification...so call, ask if kids are welcme, and respond accordingly.

One thing I did as a 'married with kids' is HOST LOTS of gatherings at OUR home! I know it is a LOT of work...but for ME it gave many of my then 'childless' friends a chance to meet/see my kids on 'safe ground'. The kids in turn could feel a 'part' of the gatherings, have somewhat a normal schedule, and once they were in bed, I was free to be an 'adult' with my guests. I found after a few of my hosted gatherings, my children were often ASKED to come! And of course, many of them went on to HAVE kids...and I became the onethey asked advice from...lol

A will say THIS though...I am divorced now for many reasons, but as I look back, I cannot help but admit that I SHOULD have put more focus on my children's DAD and my relationship seperately and AWAY from the kids!

My inclination is to say...hard tho it may be...get a sitter...go to BOTH events...and consider hosting some gatherings on YOUR turf so these friends get to know your kids!

Take Care
Michele/catwalk

Becoming a parent puts you in a different world into which your friends cannot venture. It can't help but change your relationships. The little ones are now the center of your life, and you can't help talk about their latest milestones or challenges or something cute they did the other day. Often those who are childless simply are uninterested.

The Christmas invite was tacky, given that the NO CHILDREN applied only to you. It would have been more gracias for whomever was hosting the event to call you to say s/he'd appreciate it if you left V and W with a sitter. Such a request isn't unreasonable - no matter how vigilant you are, there are plenty of opportunities for toddlers in non-childproofed homes to do damage or get injured. [You should not presume that invitations include your children; you should call and ask.]

I would not take the children this weekend - 2+ hours in the car + bunch of unfamiliar adults + no kid amusements = meltdown. Not an opportunity for your friends to see your kids in a good light. If you can't get a sitter, stay home.

T., I want to add just one thing to the terrific posts below: Please don't write off your childless friends and distance yourself from them now. In fact, embrace them and make a real effort to get together with them without your children. See girlfriends without your kids OR your husband sometimes--let him take the kids while you go out. You won't be able to do it as often, and it'll take a lot more logistics, but you will maintain your sanity, remember how to talk about subjects that are not kid-friendly and keep ties you will need in all too few years when your kids are not interested in hanging out with Mom but are off with their own friends. And do let your friends know that they can and should call you and arrange get-togethers without having to feel they MUST include your kids. If you don't let them know this clearly, the invitations will dry up and you'll be even angrier, thinking: Why don't they call any more? Remember that old song: "Make new friends, but keep the old; one is silver and the other gold." It'll take more effort on both sides but it's worthwhile. Don't feel so dissed; they are still inviting you places!

T.,

I have a response for you "from both sides of the aisle" so to speak. I was late to get married, compared to a lot of my friends, so late to have children. I went to, and hosted a number of both child friendly and adult oriented parties. My child friendly parties were smaller, earlier in the evening, tended to have less alcohol, and everyone tended to know everyone else and the children (behaving appropriately). My adult only parties had a much larger mix of people from different areas of my life. They found that they enjoyed meeting each other, buth the parties were loud, some of the childless people had language that I would not want my 3 y/o (or my friends 3 y/o) to repeat, and at times became overcrowded to the point that small children and their parents would be overwhelmed. As parents of two toddlers, I have to say that my husband and I occassionally get Nana to babysit, so we can have adult time ourselves or with friends. I wouldn't see this as any different, and would enjoy the chance to socialize without changing diapers, cleaning up vomit from my hostesses rug (it has happened) or having to chase my over-tired daughter in circles instead of talking to my friends when visiting (just once in a while).

Not everything is about you. Just maybe your friends party is about them and ALL their friends, while the informal get together is about them and their closest friends. If they didn't want children there, they probably would have told you. If you are concerned, and these are actually your friends, call the hostess, and ask if your children have been a problem. I have some friends with children, who have Adult only parties. They get a babysitter, and have the children bathed and playing downstairs when the guests come. They go check on them, and the kids come up if they need anything, but are not "at the party."

I hope you and your friends can work this out. It is unfortunate to feel that you are "not welcome" when the real issue is that not every social situation is appropriate for young children (no matter how well behaved). You wouldn't take your children to a bar for coctails Saturday evening, would you? Even a high class one...

Best of luck. Go and enjoy you friends both with and without your children.

S. - mom of two beautiful little girls who constantly amaze me with both their manners and then complete lack of them. <g>

It's not that they don't want you there, they would just rather children aren't there. This is perfectly acceptable. It even came up at the Mom's Club meeting I went to yesterday (200 member club). We hold lots of kids and no kids events. No offense should be taken. I'm the only one of my friends that had a child for a long time and most of the places they asked that I not bring him really wasn't appropriate for him anyway and was more for me to have a good time with adult conversation, entertainment, and bevrages.
I would call and ask if the kids are welcome at the informal party. Then your decision to go should be based on that and whether or not you can get or even want a sitter. I find that most people without kids just don't understand how much you have to juggle when you have little ones and understandably don't think to plan occasions appropriate for kids. It's not that they don't want you or your kids. For kid-friendly parties, plan your own or look to other people who have kids.

Think you MAY be taking this a bit the wrong way - - and being just as "selfish" as you feel your friends are being. There are places and times for children - - and this does not mean all places and times are right for children. I certainly do not take them everywhere, including to parties or gatherings or outings, even with other parents. I have 6 and 8 year old girls. I admit that I was a bit hurt when they were not included in a get together with friends in the begining but I very quickly learned (when it came to inviting over their brood)...We all need time that is adult time. No matter how sweet or good or accommodating your kids are - they still add a different dynamic. No matter how much you THINK they don't, they add an element of need and focus that takes away from the event. It's not all that different than inviting some people to a party you have been invited to, who the hosts don't know(other than snacks, sippy cups, diaper changes, meltdowns). I know I struggle with how to invite people, without their kids, even though mine will be there (in my house). Having my kids, in their own environment is quite different than having others' kids over in their space. You suddenly have mob mentallity if the kids are left on their own, or - read above - a focus on children. I assure you if you "put your foot down", you will do permanent damage. When people tell you "children change your life" - - this is one aspect of that. Enjoy your kids, enjoy playdates with your kids, and enjoy your friends, without kids. As much as you think your friends are rude for not wanting your kids there, think how they feel if everything you talk about and focus on, is your kids - when they don't even have any. If I did needlepoint, and you didn't - - would you really want to hear about it every time we got together? Just try to understand that if this is how you see it, you may be out of the social scene for abit. It'll pass and also you'll form new friendships based on your new interests - -kids!

It's very important to have a life outside of parenting. Too often, parents - women in particular - define themselves by their children. You were once single and had a life outside of work. Now that you've added a husband and kids to the mix, your lifestyle has changed, but your inner core should be the same. Not everyone is a fan of children, which is OK! So don't be resentful if your children are excluded. Furthermore, by bringing kids with you everywhere, you fail to create boundaries. Go out and enjoy yourself with your husband - as another person said.

T.,
you received some good responses. But as a mom who was one of the 'firsts' in our group to start having kids. Things will change. They can still be great friends but being the mom of a young child makes everythign different. Have you made new friends with couples that have children too? If you do go don't forget to bring bubbles, always a crowd pleaser during rest stops and when boredom creeps up. Good luck.
Pammy

It sounds like your family has moved on to a different point in your life, and they are still at the same place. Not that it is bad for either you or them...it is just so. It is understandable that they don't get that what they are doing is hurtful, I mean, come on...they are excluding your children in everything, basically sending you the message that they still accept you and your hubby, but not your children. In some situations of course it is not appropriate for children, but they should be making efforts to show that they care that you and your husband have children that are important to you...simply because they are friends. If not, then maybe the time has come to seek out new people that can share this new part of your life with you, children and all.
K.

Looks like my response is a little late and about the same: Please stop pushing your children on others, and especially into your good friends' childless social situations! My husband and I are "older parents" meaning that we were among the childless of our social groups longer than our peers, and then by extension on the other end, were still parenting later than they were (in fact we still have our last at home). In the former time we DID extend invitations that were more formal or adult-oriented and most certainly were polite but careful to state we could not accomodate children. We found it extremely odd and tactless that some friends persisted with saying how their children would be 'no problem' at these events, but we held firm. Later we valued the commonsense of our friends who, now childless, extended adult-only invitations to us who had children. We live near no relatives and babysitters were always hard to find, but we searched harder and longer and planned far ahead in order to please both ourselves and our hosts. Leave your children at home with competent care and resume your adult life when you have a chance with your good friends!!!
The weekend event you decribe sounds entirely inappropriate for your children to attend.

I'm going to be blunt. It's important that you and your husband have a social life that doesn't include your children. Get a babysitter and go out by yourselves. I can understand that a 2 hour trip may be difficult but you need to start doing other social things w/o your children. You are not a package deal--sometimes invitations arrive to include kids, and sometimes not, so get used to it. You are not a better parent if you refuse to leave your kids in the care of another--you are doing them and yourselves a disservice.

Be happy that your friends want to see YOU. It's hard for them to carry on a conversation w/you when you are constantly watching your little ones. It is their choice if they are throwing the party. They don't understand children, and that's OK (they may have their own someday and will learn). Make sure you keep them as friends and abide by their wishes. When you host the party you can decide the rules.

As for the political party, call the hosts and ask if you can bring the kids. If the answer is no, don't be hurt, just make the choice to get a sitter or stay home. The more you make a big deal about always wanting to bring your kids the more you may alienate your friends and find yourself off the guest list permanently. Things will change as they start having kids and yours get older so hang in there. You may also find you enjoy some time out w/o your kids and you enjoy being w/your friends again.

Kids are wonderful and while we appreciate and adore them people without them may not. Why not use these get togethers as a chance for you and your husband to enjoy some adult time and get a sitter for the little darlings? With them in tow you are not going to be able to relax and enjoy the party anyway as child-less homes are anything but child-proof so you will have to be on alert the whole time and it will be on you as husbands are amazingly blind to their anctics at those times. Plus the kids will have no toys and no one to play with at the party so would be happier in their own environment with a caring sitter. From the hosts' perspective, language and whatnot has to be guarded when children are around (or at least should be) and so they would also be uncomfortable and unable to relax and enjoy their own party. So enjoy yourself, child-free.

Hi T.,
We have a group of friends that also has "no children" parties. It has hurt my feelings too. It sort of feels like your child is being "rejected" or something. I do believe people really need time away from their kiddos. but when I compare hanging out with some of my old childless friends to being with my sweet little girl, my girl wins. So when I have down time, I'd really just rather be with her. Or with some of my new friends who also have kids. Now that's a group I'd get a babysitter for... they just "get me" better these days.

take care,
A.

This was a hard transition for us too. We loved to socialize with our friends but kids change things. For the better of course. Please don't look at it as they are keeping you from that party crowd but that they are taking you up to the next level of parties. Those WITH children.

Call them BEFORE you go. It will save a LOT of potential humiliation. Plus you don't want to put your children in that kind of situation. You as parents are responsible for protecting them from others who don't want them around just because they are kids. You can always get a sitter too.

It was harder for my husband to let go of that time than it was for me. I guess cause I gave birth to our little ones? I don't know. Anyhoo, I say throw your own party and put on your invitation CHILDREN WELCOME. You'll know how to make it 'child proof' and lots of fun!

Enjoy those babies! It's the journey that matters not the end of the race. They will grow up super fast.

Take Care,
N. :) SAHM homeschooling 3 boys 13, 8 & 2 yrs old and married to my Mr. Wonderful for almost 15yrs. I love to help other moms, who want to become SAHMs, reach that goal!

Your friends have defined the two events differently. Informally, they seem to have no problem having your children visit, watch tv, eat in the living room etc.
But they are probably going all out for the Christmas Party and do not think it is an appropriate venue to share with kids. I don't see the problem. We entertain a lot and as a hostess I can tell you there is a big difference to the feel of a party when kids are present. And the politics thing? Since when did it become a bad thing for kids to hear different opinions? Go to the informal party and show them how well behaved your kids are!

Don't take it personal- it probably is not. If they are really friends , you should feel comfortable enough to give a ring to find out the deal regarding the party. Unfortunately, relationionships change with freinds after the kids come along. You cannot expect others to change simply because you did. Get a sitter and have some fun, if you find hanging out with the kids more enjoyable, then stay home- thats what we do. make a point to host if you want your kids involved.

Honestly, I'm not sure why the "no kids" invitation makes you feel excluded. You're absolutely included, just not the kids. I prefer invitations to be clear so that when I go to a party, I know for certain that there's no problem bringing our daughter. Otherwise, it's just awkward if we're the only couple that brought along our kid, you know?

For this weekend's party, I would definitely call the host to determine if the kids are welcome. Good friends will be perfectly honest with you.

And for the other party, just get a sitter and go be with your friends and have fun!!

This is a tough one. I can understand having an adult-only party for many reason--one being that adults want a night away from kids (theirs and others.) Also, it allows a little more freedom--music, drinks, chatting--without disturbing kids who may be sleeping or afraid of loud noise. So, try to think of it that way. Trekking two hours with the kids and not knowing FOR SURE if the kids are invited is a little risky. I'd make a personal call to the hosts to let them know that you'd love to attend but without a babysitter you'll be bringing the kids along. A lot of times people may SAY "no children" but are okay if one or two families must bring theirs along (at least it's not a house full of kids.) Also, be sure the house is child friendly (imagine grandma's china on display or electronics at toddler eye level.) I've come to learn that part of being parents means that you have to somewhat let go of your "child-free" years of adult only activities--which is REALLY HARD to do. In 20 years when you're back to doing all the adult only activities your now child-free friends will be stressing with teenagers and will be feeling just as trapped as you are today. :-)

If you have been friends with this crew for a long time, then it is important to share your insecurities with them.

I do understand having events without children, and you should not be offended because children are demanding. Sometimes when you go out you don't want to babysit and I honestly think it is cruel to children. We take children to adult affairs, and then they are not allowed to be themselves.

Please give your friends a chance, if they loved you before you had children they still love you.

Please realize sometimes adults want to be with adults, children want to be with children, men want a night out with the guys, and sometimes women just want to be with their girlfriends. No hurt intended.

Take Care.
D.

I personally don't think this is a big deal. Just have your husband ask if the kids are invited to the thing this weekend or if they prefer to keep it to the crew. If alcohol is involved people can get rowdy and forget how they are acting anyway. Suppose they don't want to have to watch what they say or how they act just because your kids are there. Find some new friends with kids and stop being so offended.

I have one son and another on the way. For most of our entertaining, we put our son to bed and have the party AFTER he is sleeping and tell our guests to come WITHOUT kids. I see nothing wrong with the host or hostess determining if they want children at their event. Children at parties (particularly toddlers) change the entire mood of the event. In this case, either hire a babysitter and enjoy an adult evening/day with your husband OR politely and lovingly decline the invitation saying that logistics for childcare, etc. won't work out.

Maybe you could have a party at your house and invite your old friends.

It can be extremely difficult to maintain a relationship with friends who don't have children. The best thing you can do is respect their wishes and only go to get togethers with them when you have a sitter. They won't understand the ups and downs of having children much less your change in priorities. Right now you need to surround yourself with couples who have children your kids' ages. That way when you have a weekend get together the kids can play and you can visit. The easiest way to to this is to join a parents group. Check out Richmondmommies.com (free) and richmondplaygroup.com (free) or even Meetup.com (free for most groups or nominal fee). Sadly, until your older friends have their own kids it may be time to move on for a while until they catch up or just hang out with them when you have a sitter.

As far as the weekend fling goes, you need to analyze cost vs benefit even if it is ok that they go. Is it really worth a 2 hour drive each way to take your kids? Will you get to spend adult time chatting, or will your kids be so bored you will have to entertain them to keep them busy? You did mention that you had some concerns about the environment and adult convo. Perhaps you could ask if they have a room with a TV/DVD player set up where you can throw in a new or favorite movie to keep the kids occupied but even that might be a stretch with a 1 year old. At thier ages they usually need constant supervision and entertainment from someone. Honestly, if it were me I think I would skip it and go visit another time sans kiddos!

Good luck!

I don't think you should be offened by this at all. They are not excluding you they are just simply requesting that you not bring your children. Some functions or get togethers are for adults only and that should not be an issue. I have never been offended by having a friend tell me something was for adults only. If I ever have any questions as to if it is appropraite to bring our child or not I make a phone call and ask. I think everyone needs some time with just adults even if you have children. Personally I would make a phone call see if they are welcome or not. If not get a sitter if you are able and enjoy yourself.

Don't look at it as they resent kids. They might not want kids there b/c it is an adult thing with adult beverages, entertainment etc. If it specifically states that No Children then don't bring the kids. The choice is yours you can try your best to find a sitter for that evening and call the friends up and let them know that you look forward to coming and that you will do your best to find a sitter. Now your husband probably is looking forward to going b/c he wants to get out as an adult thing with the "old gang" and it will be good for you too. We can all easily fall into the parent roll without having time to look back and remember who we were but you do need a break to rejuvenate yourself and do something for yourself that doesn't involve kids. We all love our kids more than anything. Kids need a break from us parents too. Us as parents need adult time for ourselves so go have fun with your husband just the two of you nothing to feel bad about. Once a month we try to have an adult only evening so that way we get a break and so do the kids. It is a good thing.

I totally understand how you feel. I would definatly make sure that the kids are welcome. The thing is though, they may not say you can't bring the kids. You need to follow your instincts. The husbands are always up for it as they are not the primary care giver for the kids. My husband is like that and I do put my foot down so maybe you should do that as well but do follow your instincts. If you are feeling you shouldn't go then you need to go with it.
Good Luck
S.

i would leave the children at home, and next time maybe you can suggest you throw the bash.

there is nothing worse because kids know when they are not wanted, and that is when the react (be at their worst) wich then cements in your gangs eyes that kids are not welcome.

i would to put your mind at rest talk to them yourself and not pass the buck on the hubby, because as you say he dosent get it.

some adults just dont want to watch their p's and q's when they are out to have a good time. you have to remember that it was your choice to have kids and that they didnt chose to have them (yet) and they still want to enjoy that freedom, that is why they say no children. and besides what they want to do might be realy boring for the kids did you ever think of it that way?

I agree with all the other ladies about getting a sitter you trust and go out with your hubby and get some adult time. Any good counselor will tell you you need time with just your husband to keep the relationship going. You might even have fun without your kids!

After awhile, if you go to play grounds and events for children (school, bday parties), you may find yourself making friends with couples with kids. Then you have another circle to play with. Even so, once in a while, you NEED adult time.

The other moms at the playground we go to agree; we like to see our kids get fresh air and play with each other, but while they're playing, we like to socialize with other adults and get grown up conversation.

-S

The bottom line is that if you bring the kids this weekend, one of the two of you is going to have to end the evening early to put the kids to bed and stay with them. Having been married for 20 years and now divorced (so I've been there), and given the fact that your husband doesn't see a problem with taking the kids, I can pretty much guess that person will be you. So I guess it boils down to how you feel about knowing your husband will probably be out late with the gang while you are in early with the kids. For me, I learned the hard way that it sucked for me and my husband didn't get it.
As far as the Christmas thing goes, definitely find an alternate option for the kids or don't go. Christmas is about your kids - you might feel left out at the moment, but your childless friends are missing the big picture. :-)

You can still have friends that don't have kids, but there is a place and time for both. Kids do not have to go to every thing you go to that is why there are baby sitters, whether you have to pay for them or they go to a relative. You still have a life and should enjoy it as a couple not a family at times. If friends that don't have kids have an event and they specify no children, it isn't meant as a slap in the face or anything to upset you, it is just that the event being held is not a place to bring kids. A lot of parents think that kids should be allowed any where they go but that is not true. I have 2 grown children and I attended events that they could not go to and I enjoyed myself. I also took my kids to events that were meant to be family events. Not everyone likes to have screaming kids around and unfortunately most folks these days do not disipline their children especially in public. I'm sure that your children are very well behalved but you need to respect your single friends and your kids and find time for both.

I understand you when I had my son everyone was all over him...after the 1st year it went away and we got invited to less and less. Everyone in our "circl" plays cards...funny thing we haven't been invited to play cards in about 2 yrs...my son is now 4 1/2. I have personally moved out of the "circle"...Dad hasn't. I don't really mind I feel like if he wants to still hang out w/them...go for it...I have just found new friends on the side who have kids. Now the "circle" is starting to get married and have kids...but when they want to play cards they get the in-laws to help and I don't always have that option. I guess the only thing I was angry about is they still could have invited us and if we wanted to try and find a sitter we could...I started getting mad when I would hear around town there was a gathering and we weren't invited...for some reason it doesn't make the men mad so he still talks to them. I would say call them and make sure the kids are welcomed. If not I would just send your hubby to represent the family.

T., I have to say that I am in agreement with most of the other moms. I don't think your friends are excluding you and your husband at all. It is completely appropriate to throw a party and restrict it to adults only. It sounds like in different situations your friends have been comfortable including your children, so get a sitter and enjoy the adult interaction. Maybe even have a drink and loosen up a little.

get a sitter. sometimes people just want to have an adults only occasion.

Are you the only one of your gang with kids? If so, I would rather leave the kids home. If your husband wants to go to the party, he could go alone. Then, when your friends ask where you are, he can say you stayed home with the kids. Maybe they'll get the point. Young couples with no kids yet really don't understand the logistics that go in to a "night out" with, or without, kids!

Let your husband go without you. Men have a harder time adjusting to life with kids than women do. Obviously your friends aren't ready for the kind of fun that parents have to settle for. I wouldn't take your kids to someplace where they aren't going to have any other kids to play with and where you will feel disapproved of for bringing them. You'll just end up sitting in the car with them, or taking them to a McDonald's play place while your hubby hangs out with the old crew. You and your kids are better off at home or on a playdate with other small kids and their moms. These are the sacrifices that we make as moms, but I think you'll agree that it's worth it.

You're not being excluded, your children are. As much as you love your kids and think they're the cutest things in the world, your friends are not exactly bound to have those same feelings.

Get a sitter, go have fun, or don't go. But if you choose not to go, don't blame your friends. They are friends with YOU, not your kids.

I am with you, I wouldn't drive 2 hours only to find out that kids were not intended guests. IN this situation, I would call the hosts and ask. Then I would listen really hard to their answer -- if there's a pause before they say "yes, sure, bring your kids," you KNOW it wasn't what they had in mind.

It's a lot easier when the invitation spells it out. Please don't be offended by receiving an invitation that specifies "no kids." The hosts may not be set up to provide entertainment/food/etc for little kids, and they may also just want an adult evening. You have to admit that including kids makes for a different party. If you don't want to go without your kids you don't have to go. This situation, of some of your friends having kids and some not, will persist for a little while, and then it will all even out. Just think, it may happen later on that you are past the infant/toddler stage and your friends will be in the thick of it, and it may annoy YOU when they arrive with the toddlers and babies in tow! So for now just try not to be too sensitive, everybody is trying to do their best. In the meantime, enjoy those kids!

S.

Please don't take the "no kids" personally, sometimes it's nice to just be a grownup. Try to find a sitter you trust and go have fun with your hubby!

I have a sister-in-law who takes an invitation that does not include her children very personally, even something like a wedding, and refuses to go. She really cuts herself off from friends and family.

Hi T.,
For the Christmas get-together, I can understand the no children request. It could be that the host doesn't want to have to worry about baby-proofing, the menu, etc. At least they are telling you now. Perhaps you could find a babysitter for that night?

For the get-together this weekend, I would just give them a call and make sure who all is invited. Its better to know before you go then when you get there.
M.