UPDATED: Tween - Attending Church Without Parents

I would definitely let her go. I think it is a great experience for her. These services are very uplifting. Sounds like she is growing up and wants to experience different things. She will find out we all have different points of view. Hopefully, she will respect other people's opinions. We all have to learn to agree to disagree.

If they weren't my beliefs or disbelieved:
Yes. Then that's also lots of fun conversations!

If I believed against: No. Absolutely not.

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Just for 2 examples...

1) There is a mega church here that preaches pure hate. Its EXCITING! It chaaaaaaaaarizzzMATIC!! Oh yeah! Its fun! Its great! Its sooooo. Blink. Blink. Awesome? To be hateful?

But they have a pastor who does backflips.
And white water rafting trips.
And rock shows.
And its eeeeeeeeeeeeevil.
I mean, really & darkly perverted & evil.
I don't want my son around avoidable evil.
So not only no, but HECK NO!

((An example of their doctrine is that "love" is actually one of Satan's tricks. That too much "love" is why there are pedophiles. That parent should NEVER be more than 'business casual' affectionate with their kids, or they might end up 'going too far one day & raping them!!!' That's one. One of many. Racist like I havent see outside of 1980 Deep South, and is one step away from smokestacks. Sexism that would make the Taliban look liberal, and misanthropy & paranoia that belongs in a mental institution. Set. To. Electric. Guitar. Phrased in ways that dont SOUND racist/ sexist/ deluded. Phrased i ways that SOUND GOOD. Shrudder. Im serious, its pure evil. My baby brother got mixed up with the several years ago. It was horrifying.))

2) I have quite a lot of Jewish friends. I'm HONORED when we get invited to Pessach (hey, its about educating children, Gentiles should count;), high holidays, the rolling of the Torah. My son is MORE than welcome to attend Temple any Saturday he would like. I admire & respect the religion.

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So that's my line in the sand; Do I or can I respect the religion, its teachings, and its practitioners?

If the Youth Minister was okay with it, and you want to send her, then send her. I think it would be morally wrong if you were sending her in order to ridicule their beliefs, but your reasons are morally valid. You are open to your child having different experiences. The fact that you will probably tell her that you don't believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible doesn't mean you are mocking their beliefs in sending your daughter there, imo.

If the question comes up, just be up front with your daughter's friends' families about your family's beliefs. You can't control others' reactions, but everything, good and bad, will be a learning experience for your daughter. Throughout her life she will probably occasionally encounter people who shun her for one reason or another, so I don't think you need to protect her from it at this point.

I still think you should let her go, if she wants to.

Let her go. If their beliefs aren't consistent with her own, she will make the choice to stop going. If you fight her on this, it will only make her want to go there more.

My best friend in junior high was Primitive Southern Baptist. To this day, I remember her telling me I was going to hell because I didn't go to church. She said she'd be friends with me anyway. Of course, now as an adult, I can think of a million replies to that garbage, but I was only 13 at the time and new to the area and just put up with it. We eventually formed other friendships, mostly because we didn't have much in common. My parents let me go to her church once and I went to Mormon, Catholic and other churches over the years as a kid. Nothing resonated with me and that was that.

You might sit down with her just to find out what she finds appealing about this church. My guess is that it's purely the social aspect of it all.

Take a deep breath and don't worry too much over this.

I say let her go, BUT keep an open dialogue with her and make sure that it isn't something more. I meandered a lot in my teens and early 20's and almost got sucked into a cult in college. Thankfully with the help of some friends I was able to untangle myself from that fiasco, and eventually found my way to the right religion for me.

Just keep the conversation open with her and keep involved with what is going on.

Well, as a Christian, I would say, "let her go."
1) You don't seem to be practicing any religion on a regular basis, so she isn't missing something she would otherwise be doing.
2) It doesn't sound like she would be hearing anything but moralizing.

so... I don't see the problem.
If it were my child, I would view it differently, but that is because
1) I hold different theological beliefs than you, and
2) our home practices them, so our child would miss them by doing this other activity instead.

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ETA:
By the way.. I wouldn't be worried about what might happen with her socially later "when her friends families find out that you don't agree with their beliefs" or however it was exactly that you framed that. That is just a non-issue for me and my family. My kids are friends with all kinds of people. I don't agree with the way they do lots of things in their families... but that doesn't mean my kid can't be friends with theirs. Will I let my kid sleep over or hang out there if they are allowing teens to drink and do drugs? NO. Will Iet my kid hang out with them if they are leading/encouraging/modeling poor behavior or dangerous behavior? No. But that would be the case no matter what religion is claimed (or not claimed). It is a non-issue. Those very same kids would be invited over here to hang out (though I would not allow any of the behavior I don't approve of to go on). Their choice of religion would not be a factor in their friendship as far as I can see. Their life choices might be... I would hope my kids would drop friendships that lead them into poor choices. Don't we all? I think you are over-thinking the social thing... Really, I do.

(these particular things are generalizations-- I am not aware of any of my kids' friends doing these things, nor their families... but if they did...)

I would allow her occasional visits and to attend some special events, but I would not allow regular attendance. I think I would require her to attend a more liberal/progressive church in addition to this church, and keep an open dialogue at home about your beliefs. I've seen how persuasive some of the ministers can be in those mega-churches.

My family is not religious. I used to go to church all the time with a friend of mine whos family was Mormon. It didnt have any impact on my religious views. I had a good time though, they had a huge youth group and did a lot of camping trips.

I really appreciate how thoughtful you are about all this and how much effort you are putting into deciding how to react. Good for you.

I'll be brief (I responded to the initial post): I would go with her at least some of the time and I'd be sure to attend some of the services or events aimed at her age group. You do need to know what they're saying. And the reason to attend some of the events aimed at kids her age is to see how those events are set up and run, and -- very importantly -- how those events convey the underlying message. We are practicing, churchgoing but liberal Christians, and what worries me about conservative Christian megachurches is the fact they have the money and staffing to put on very, well, seductive programming aimed at getting kids to come and come again. That's fine -- all churches want folks to come, including ours -- but you need to know what attractive things are being offered and where those things lead (in terms of asking kids for commitments and come-to-the-altar moments in which kids can be caught up without really knowing what it means). Like I said -- I have no issue with the idea of any of these things, but if you worry that this place is going to dress up messages you cannot ultimately allow, you need to go there and see what they're doing.

Do let her go at least some,, so it does not become forbidden fruit and therefore more attractive just because mom banned it.

Also, if she is involved in other activities that emphasize values you prefer, you can gently push those -- but don't be obvious or it will turn her way off. You also might want to look into the Unitarian Universalist church, which embraces not only Christianity but many other paths to peace and divinity -- I have many friends who are Unitarian Universalists who were raised in other faiths and who prefer the Unitarian way. Kids in this church learn about all faiths equally and that may be a great option that you can embrace so you both go to a church together. By the way, for full disclosure purposes, our family is not Unitarian; I just know some very thoughful folks who are.

I think churches (especially mega-churches) use their resources to engage and educate and reach out to everyone in the community, so I don't think it's "dishonest use" of their time, energy and resources.
They like to throw 5 pounds of pasta at the walk in hopes some will "stick"! Lol
Continue your religious discussion with your daughter so she knows WHY you believe ( or don't believe) what you do.

Let her go.

As parents, we aren't supposed to teach our kids what to think, we're supposed to teach our kids HOW to think.

So let her go to "her" church, but also share your beliefs with her. And share others' beliefs with her as well.

I meandered all over the place through my teens and 20's. Now as a 34 year old woman, I am confident in my Christian faith.

I still say "LET HER GO".

It is wise to let your daughter explore other options, knowledge and beliefs. It just might solidify her upbringing as an Episcopalian.

It is WONDERFUL that you talked with the youth pastor. That's wonderful! How great that he was open and sharing with you about their practices!

I would rather my child hang out at a church than an arcade (I know, archaic) or the mall...at least she has the chance to explore other options, learn something new and create a new conversation at home. God ALWAYS wants us to learn and spread our wings!!!

I live in a community that is probably 70% LDS, the other 20% Baptist, and the other 9% a mixture of Catholic and Jehovah Witnesses. I am Agnostic. I really don't believe, but won't claim in no uncertain terms that He doesn't exist.

For the most part my children hold some of my views. I am extremely liberal in a very conservative area. Never once has any of my kids, some who believe and some who don't been made to feel "less then". Never once have they been ostersized (sp?) because of our liberal views. There are of course the 'holier then thou' people, but they aren't people we would associate with anyways. So no love loss there.

I've raised them to be strong in themselves and their beliefs, sure their friends and them have had some strong debates about topics, but can at the end of the day agree to disagree. That's how me and my best friend are..we agree to disagree.

I also see nothing wrong with learning life lessons from the bible. Does it really matter where our childrens moral lessons come from? Not to me, being a good person is being a good person, whether it's from the bible or from our parents or a combination of both. Yes, we can instill whatever moral and religious values into our children we want, but at the end of the day it is a lifestyle that they will have to live with.

Based on this information, I do change my position a bit. Seeing that it is mostly a non-denominational church that isn't necessarily "opposing" your viewpoint, I would let her be involved. I'm not familiar with religion separating friends as you've stated, but I'd hate to limit her involvement or friendships because of something that "might" happen.
I really don't think you're taking advantage. If she gets involved in any youth group activities or such, you'd probably contribute financially to that. Or let her take an offering when she goes.
A friend and I started a Wednesday night program at our church to get more youth involved from the community. We did independent fund raising to support the program so there were not designated church funds being used to supplement the program. The purpose is to get youth involved, you're not taking advantage. I wouldn't feel pressure to give - totally up to you.

My daughter has a best friend who is Mormon. We are not religious. She has gone to the service here and there. The mom and I are friends. Not close but the mother has never had any ' judgement' against us or tried to get us to understand her beliefs. The child spends the night at our house almost every weekend has been to our family gatherings. We are complete opposite. Let her go and have fun I really think you are over thinking this.

My older daughter is actually friends with several evangelical Christians. We are atheist. She will occasionally attend church with them, as I wrote in my response to the last question. She doesn't believe their theology, but she enjoys the company of the kids there. The parents of these kids are well aware that we are not religious and don't want to be. But they know us, they know we are good people, that we are aware of the bible and what it contains, and we have chosen not to be part of a Christian church. We have not experienced our daughter being shunned, and actually, we as parents have not been shunned either. We're regularly invited to parties and celebrations at these folks' homes, and we invite them here. We just don't discuss religion. ;)

That being said, if your child is regularly attending events at the church, such as going every Wednesday to the youth group meetings, you should contribute financially to the church. Obviously you wouldn't need to tithe fully, since your family doesn't go there, but it would be a nice gesture to donate. Consider that for teen groups, they tend to provide food and drinks for them, probably the kids receive consumable items (copies of documents, craft materials, etc), they have to heat/cool the place and keep the lights on... and from what I understand, a lot of churches rotate through on who provides snacks, so you may want to inquire about that and send along a snack when it's your turn. I'm sure they don't mind her being there, as they probably hope this will turn out to be a life-long religion for her.

I don't see anything "morally wrong" with letting her go even if you don't join. Is the service project less beneficial to her if it's run by a church vs civic group? It's not like churches have a lock on serving at a soup kitchen, for example.

My stepkids have attended church functions with their friends and though I hope that some of the generic life lessons sunk in, they have to this point chosen not to attend a church on their own. I also followed friends to their churches for events and even as an adult attend or invite people as I think it might interest them/me. I expect DD to do the same. The name has changed but I used to attend a scouting type group called Missionettes, though I never did join that church. And not being Jewish hasn't entirely kept us from celebrating bar/bat mitzvas, a bris, or holidays like Passover or Hanukkah, depending on the invitations from our friends. Our neighbors came over when we were trimming our tree and we explained to their kids our traditions the same as they've explained things like Sukkot to ours.

I think that with most things, religion included, either the kids and their families accept her/you or they don't. And finding out who her real friends are is a life lesson we all go through. Some people will just never be comfortable outside their own group, and some will, and your child needs to find the ones that can accept her as she is and vice versa.

And all the while you can keep talking to them and her and keep navigating what's right for your family. Share your thoughts with her and listen to what she has to tell you, too.

I would go with her, to really hear what they are teaching. It's one thing for him to say that they teach moral life lessons. I'd want to hear exactly what those lessons are so that I could discuss them with my child on the way home. For example, (and this is based strictly on my own beliefs and everyone else's may differ) if the moral lesson from the bible they are teaching focuses on love thy neighbor, great. If the moral lesson from the bible they are focused on this week is that homosexuals are going to hell, not so great, and I'd want to discuss that right away. Without attending this church for a little while, you don't really know what the moral values they plan to teach are.

So, I say go with her. Even if it's not consistent with your personal beliefs.

As for your two concerns, neither of those would really worry me at all. I don't discuss religion with my kids friends' parents. And churches offer events to everyone, and take the chance that at least a few will stick around, but they know that many people won't.

Growing up, I had friends of many different religions and friends who practiced no religion. What religion a person practiced was not a criterion for my parents or theirs allowing us to spend time together. I would hope that it would not be a deal-breaker for your daughter's friends' parents. If it is, there isn't much you can do about it and it's best to find out sooner rather than later.

I find that wisdom can be gleaned from many sources - scriptures from various religions, the writings of naturalists, the books of Dr. Suess, and reruns of Captain Kangaroo. Just because I don't believe everything in the Bible doesn't mean there isn't some good stuff in there. I am an unabashed cherry-picker. I take those ideas that I find improve my life and use them and leave the rest behind. So no, it isn't wrong for her to make use of any life lessons she learns there that she feels are good ideas.
As for finances, I would do exactly what the minister said - give what you feel like giving IF you feel like giving it. A part of most churches' budget is designated toward visitor services, so it's not as though your daughter is costing them extra money by attending as an occasional visitor.

Hi C.~

In answer to your questions in order:

A. Yes, you may find your fears are realized-- or not.Cross that bridge if and when you come to it. If her friends' families do not allow her to develop those friendships, that may be a hard experience, but there is still a lesson in this about tolerance. Your daughter has parents who are practicing tolerance by allowing her to attend the church, and if the parents of those children are discouraging the friendship, this could be an eye-opener for your daughter. If she *does* end up believing this religion, you can let her know that there are other churches who worship Christ in a more tolerant way. It's a very valuable lesson to learn that a *church* or a *congregation* is not God or Christ, it is only ONE manifestation of worship, nothing more or less.

If you are concerned about her receiving backlash from other parents not wanting their kids around you and your husband because you are not followers of their faith, I think this opens up another valuable conversation about fear and judgment. This is an opportunity to ask your daughter "what do you think the parents are worried about? What could they fear?" My guess (from your previous posts) is that you and your family don't spend a lot of time trying to freak people out by being 'other' (I don't know you, so maybe you do, but that's not the impression I get). So, if you aren't getting into theological debates with the kids or drinking and dancing around them, I think it could be a worthwhile conversation: judging based solely on assumptions is only hurtful. It will hopefully teach her to be thoughtful in considering 'difference' between herself and others.

B- No. I don't think it is wrong to let your daughter attend and to let her learn about another way of living. I'd feel differently if your post had read "we love it! It's like free babysitting!" :) I don't see that. I see you trying to support your daughter in the best way possible by not being fearful and letting her figure out some things on her own. I would offer to your daughter that if *she* wants to tithe, you could help her figure that out from her allowance (that's part of being a Christian, tithing that 10%, so it's another realistic aspect for her to consider). If she doesn't have an allowance but is feeling uncomfortable about tithing, talk to your husband and see what you both feel would be reasonable to send her with. (You might also ask her "What do you think this church spends the money on?" and see what she comes up with. Do they have missions going which require money, or is the money used to support a behemoth building and fancy services? I think that would be a sticky point for me if the money is used to line the pockets of the pastors instead of being put to good works.)

For what it's worth, my husband and I are both secular humanists (I'm more Buddhist-influenced than he is) and we wonder when our son will question our family's beliefs. One thing we plan to do (and have already done) is to discuss religions when the topic comes up and to offer good information which is respectful of those who do believe. We are careful to avoid generalizations, but to remember that people's faith matters deeply to them even if we don't believe in it ourselves. As he gets older, we will offer books/materials on comparative religion. Both my husband and I experienced our own journeys before coming to the conclusions regarding spirituality that we did (and I do believe I have a very rich spiritual life). I also expect that my son will have his own path to follow, all we can do is be supportive. Good luck to you and your family in doing the same for your girl.:)

PS: Riley has great points regarding individual church theologies. I hadn't considered the 'hateful' side of things (don't know why, as I left a church which vilified gays) -- if that sort of intolerance is at hand, yes, find a new place for her to try out Christianity at! So, yes, sit in on some services and find out what their message is.

I would talk to her about your concerns, but also let her know, and let her know that you'll expect communications lines to be open so you can keep talking about it.

The thing that would be a definite "con" (as opposed to a pro) in this case would be whether those "life lessons" they teach are preaching intolerance or discrimination (ie, that the church treats Christians better than non-Christians or preaches anti-gay or other ways that do not respect the basic worth and dignity of every person, regardless of creed, sexual orientation, etc.). And even then, I would keep the discussions open.

I would also suggest urging her to try other churches in addition to the mega church... Because church should be not just about socialization and where one's current friends attend, but should be where you feel drawn to the teachings. So have her explore other churches (you sound like you/your family might be a good fit with Unitarian Universalism).

I think it's great for her to be exposed to different beliefs because ultimately whether you expose her to them now or not, she'll have to decide what she believes for herself.

I was technically raised Presbyterian, though we stopped going to church when I was around 8 or 9. My mom was raised Methodist and my Dad was raised Baptist - he hated going to church, and Mom didn't have the energy to deal with it by then.

When I was in 8th grade, my core group of girlfriends consisted of six young ladies - 1 Catholic, 1 non-denominational, 1 Nazarene and 3 Mormons. I babysat at the Catholic church, went to the Mormon church dances, and went to a Nazarene weekend retreat. My parents explained to me why they didn't believe the same things my friends' families did, but knew I would have to search and discover for myself. They also knew that my friends and their families were good people and trusted them. (We're all still friends today.)

It was never a big deal that I wasn't the same religion as any of them. (Except once when I took communion at the Catholic church - didn't know you weren't supposed to do that if you weren't Catholic!) I suppose it's possible that your daughter's friends/parents might try to push her or you away for not agreeing with them, but really, that's a close-minded approach to life, and you and she probably want different friends than that anyway.

I think most churches today welcome youth especially because they are the ones they're most likely to reach and are glad to provide a safe, fun environment whether you're a member or not. I know that traditionally Baptists are pretty hard core, but since you've already addressed this with the pastor a bit, it sounds like it's ok.

I think you're right to let your daughter go to church and just be open with her about your concerns and your beliefs and as long as you keep that communication going, you'll be able to help her see what she should be wary of.

As an aside, I grew up to belong to a non-denominational church and am thankful for the opportunity to discover my beliefs on my own. Good luck!

I think its great that you reached out and talked to the Youth Minister. A lot of true youth ministers are going to be open to anyone that comes. No matter what their familys belive. And as to her having friends that might not have parents that accept you just try not to get into religous conversations with them and in you've let your daughter go with them they might not even think anything unless it's obvous.