Nanny has been untrustworthy in a sense that she has not been completely honest and has lied about where she has taken the kids from time to time. Also, not told me where she is going prior to leaving although this has gotten better after about 5 conversations. Never shares anything about the day, I must ask questions again and again about how my kids were, who they played with, etc, normal things mom's that don't get to spend time with their kids during the day want to know. She has rolled her eyes at me when I was explaining something about my daughter to her. That was the 3rd time she rolled her eyes at me that week. She has been lazy with doing activities with my kids other than sitting down with some toys with them, and I have been told she's been on the phone- talking/texting at the parks while my 3 year old plays alone the entire time and the one year old sits in the stroller. I've walked in on her texting while my kids were having a free for all in their room. Have had about 5 conversations with her where she won't offer any input and I have to do most of the talking - I feel unsatisfied with her non-ability to discuss anything with me. The things I've had issues with do seem to be getting better, but feel that trust is a major factor in a nanny/parent relationship and not sure I can gain that back. If we do fire her, based upon the above, would you just let her go with no notice and no severance? I know that if you work for a company and get fired, they walk you out and your done. No additional money, no notice. Please bear in mind we have been generous throughout our relationship (almost 2 years) and she has never been grateful to us for paying her a very nice monetary Christmas bonus, for paying her for a day off that was unplanned, giving her gas money, paying her earlier in the week as requested, etc. and we did these things as we feel the nanny is an important part of the family. Also, it's quite possible she's been looking for a job as I've seen her all over the nanny job boards. I don't want her around the children after we tell her. Thoughts on notice/severance??? Please keep in mind above safety, disrespectful behavior and untrustworthy issues. Also, there's no contract involved.
Let me first say, Thank you all for all your responses! It really helped me with this hard decision. So yesterday, I decided I was going to pay her for an extra week (on top of this past week), up until a few things happened. One of which I heard a huge thud and heard my 14 month old screaming. I went up to see and believe he basically fell down the stairs. She was holding him because he was hysterical, and the whole entire time she was, her phone was buzzing nonstop in her pocket (was she on the phone texting when this happened? - I can only speculate) I have told her countless number of times to not leave him by himself in the hallway because it takes a split second for something to happen and that's why we put gates in. Either bring him with you or put him behind a gate. She claims he just fell down and I'm like there is no way I could hear that all the way in my office with the doors closed...it sounded like falling down stairs. My daughter started to say where my little one was and the nanny overtalked her so she wouldn't tell me what happened. Well, my daughter tells me that the nanny went to go put the stroller outside while she left both of them in the front hallway. He now has 2 huge brusies on both sides of his head. Yes, accidents do happen, however, that could have been avoided. Yet again I was lied to and gosh I don't want my older child thinking lies are ok...At this point, I decided against paying her for the extra week, let her go this morning when she arrived and paid her up until the end of the day today. Why does something right feel so wrong? I feel awful, but my kids safety is my #1 priority and should be the nanny's too.
I would get something in place, and then fire her. Be ready to pay her whatever you owe her to that point, and send her on her way. There is no "notice" for being fired.
Hope you have better luck with the next nanny!
No contract, no severance, no two week notice.... As a parent, my main concern is my kids, and I'm not going to "reward" a nanny who isn't doing her job properly. You've had repeated conversations with her with minimal improvement. To me, that says "chance after chance after chance," and she'd be out.
I don't think you have to give any kind of severance (unless it's spelled out in a contract), but if you can afford to, I'd recommend doing it. Not because she deserves it necessarily, just because it's a kind thing to do, and kindness pays off in the long run.
She'd be gone with NO notice and no pay.
Our nanny pushed my 4 year old while I was on travel. As soon as I found out she was gone. I was so mad my husband wouldn't even let me go meet her to get the car seat back. Nothing makes me more mad than nanny's that can't do their job. They CHOOSE to work with kids so do it right or go flip burgers.
No notice. No severance. No excuses. Just GONE.
I also contacted sittercity, where we found our nanny, and she is forever kicked off of that site. You may want to consider warning others about the actions she has taken with you and your family.
Frankly, I'm surprised you've kept her around for 2 years. She doesn't sound like a nanny--more like an untrustworthy pre-teen!
I think you dont need to be any more considerate. You should just terminate her with out any notice or severance. If there was no contract, no need to provide her with a luxury end.
I agree you have waited too long. If I were you and you NEED a nanny to watch your kids. Find someone else before you fire her. Tell her you are taking a day off work to spend time with the kids. Then do some interviews. Once you find someone, tell her on a Friday that she is done. Have your new nanny start on Monday. If you don't trust her, then you don't want her watching your kids once you give her a notice. I would be worried that she would not be nice or take good care of your kids. Sorry you have to do this. It can't be easy I'm sure. Good luck!
Two weeks severance starting on the day you tell her. With no need for her to return.
Most companies give notice and or severance. Why? Because the employee has bills to pay and leaving her in the lurch could mean she's homeless or has no money for food or whatever. She's been with you for 2 years. She should get 2 weeks severance to give her time to find another job.
- ETA
The above are not because it's legally required to do so. I do believe it is morally the right thing to do. She's been with you for 2 years. If she's been with you that long, whether you have had issues with her or not, then you own part of the problem. If she hasn't harmed your children or your residence, many of the other comments seem to be overreactions. Yes. I would fire her. But, she deserves severance. It's not a "reward." It is the human thing to do. Nannies and child care providers do not make that much money. I suspect that many have little savings and probably live paycheck to paycheck. The amount of damage you could do by not giving notice AND not paying severance is huge. She has not harmed your children. She's earned the right to not have the rug pulled out from under her without a small amount of safety net. Yes. She sounds childish and unprofessional. This also sounds like an issue of different communication styles. It doesn't sound like a kick her out, get a restraining order, and change all of the locks on the doors kind of situation.
She's all over the nanny boards and rolls her eyes at you??? She's gone yesterday. We've had a nanny for over 7 years and I have some issues from time to time. No one is perfect but this is too much. I wouldn't let her work with my kids after firing her so I assume you mean pay for time no longer working. I'd give her any accrued vacation and sick time... And if I were you, I'd tell her today (if you have other care lined up) and pay her until Friday. That's plenty. I'd be so furious with her at this point I'd be very tempted to give her nothing aside from accrued sick/vacation pay. But two days wouldn't break us financially and I guess it'd help alleviate any guilt over dismissing someone mid week... If you're thinking about this for a week or so from now, I think I'd still pick a Wed so you can say "we'll pay you through the end of the week..."
I wouldve fired her at the first eye roll. Tell her its not working out and show her the door.
Just fire her. Also make sure to tell her that it would not be a good idea to list you as a reference...
Good luck.
honstly I wouldn't give notice. I wouldn't want her to have no care or motivation towards my kids during the last period should she have notice.
She needs to go fast. Your kids are going to suffer. She should be in another profession :(
Not sure if your entire employment with her is "on the up and up" but if she works for a nanny service and you have a contract, you'll need to follow what's outlined in the contract.
IL is a "right to work state" which means anyone can be terminated for any reason at any moment - she might qualify for unemployment, though - so if you haven't been paying taxes for her you might get screwed.
If you don't want her to make a stink I would hand her two weeks pay and tell her she is no longer needed. don't explain why, just simply that you have made other decisions regarding child care.
Good Luck.
Nope, just fire her. Buh bye.
When I once got fired from a job I didn't get any notice. I was asked to leave almost immediately not to complete the day and given a check for the end of the week only.
So what's with the two weeks? When you're fired you're fired. Employer does not worry about how you make it you are no longer in their employee. Times are tough I know but so is life.
Stay home and tell her that morning or afternoon. Do what you must but you have had this headache longer than needed. She is not interested in changing her ways to keep her job.
Good luck to you. How about childcare center or something else? They at least hire and fire people and you don't have that headache.
The other S.
If there is no contract you are off the hook.
However, even if there were a contract. You are still off the hook. Very likely your contract, like other employee's contracts, would have included a section on termination without notice -- which would include aggregious acts such as dishonesty. If she is in fact dishonest, you carry the right to terminate without notice.
I worked with a friend who is a lawyer and she explained to me the proper way that contracts such as these are set up.
Good for you. Get rid of her. She doesn't deserve to be part of your family anyway.
If she's been searching the nanny board, it might mean she's about to quit as well.
I would start finding a replacement and once you find one let her know you won't be needing her Tomorrow. You don't need to tell her why, you can tell her plans have changed and you no longer need her.
If she's got any brains, she'll figure it out on her own anyhow.
With the new nanny I would suggest making a contract, explaining your expectations (open communication, respect etc.) and of course what kind of notice you expect from her should she choose to leave and what kind of notice she should expect from you. For example in my daycare contract I let the parents know that they will be given at least a 2 weeks notice provided it's not a major emergency. Unless there is Gross misconduct on behalf of the family.
But for the present situation, I say find a replacement and ditch the current one. She's not doing her job and she's being disrespectful.
Got this from:
http://research.lawyers.com/Illinois/Employment-Law-in-Il...
Employment
At Will
In Illinois, employees are presumed to be "at will." At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal. Generally, employees who work under an employment contract can only be terminated for reasons specified in the contract. In Illinois, an employment relationship is at-will unless there is a defined duration for the employment contract or if the contract permits termination by the employer only under specified circumstances.
So you can dismiss her at any time for any legal reason, or just the simple 'i don't think you are the right fit for us anymore'. If you don't have a contract, then you are not required to provide severance.
I would simply tell her that it's not working out and escort her to the door, and hand her a check for a week's pay. I would not provide two weeks... the whole "two weeks notice" thing was started in the 50s when secretaries and other office staff needed to give two weeks notice so their replacements could be trained. It was assumed that anyone could learn an office job in two weeks.
You don't need to give her two weeks notice, or two weeks pay, or anything. But I would try to give her *something* so that you end this nicely. You don't want to have to worry about her coming back and doing anything to your house or making life difficult for your children if she's mad. Whatever you decide on severance pay, I strongly recommend that the day you tell her that she's fired is the last day she watches your children. If she's untrustyworthy now, she'll be even worse if she knows she's being fired. Good luck!
If you got her through an agency I would definitely contact them first, and report her. 2 weeks notice, and 2 weeks pay should be sufficient (and that's being extremely generous) Plus, the contact with the children stops immediately!
She rolls her eyes at you??? She sounds childish, and extremely unprofessional. How old is she?
I agree that you should not leave your children with the Nanny after you have told her she's out. Perhaps a supervised "goodbye" with the kiddos if you/she feel that is needed.
I think I would give her one weeks pay, but obviously that is completely up to you. It shouldn't come as a surprise to her since you've been talking with her about different issues so much (but some people are completely clueless!).
Remove her from your children before something happens while she is too busy with her phone to do her job!!
M
If there is not contract involved I would just tell her its not working out for you and give her a check going to the end of the week. and be done. Trust is something that is a necessity when caring for children.
I need to edit something here. How do you know that she is not grateful? for the bonus stuff. Maybe if she is young (and it sounds like she is) she does not know how to show the proper appreciation. Depending on her family upbringing she may not know that a written thank you note is required. and as far as paying for a day off unplanned. if she is a nanny she would get a flat rate. if you take a day off she should still be paid. I am not saying don't fire her. the first time a sitter rolled her eyes at me she would have been done. But make sure your doing it the right way. explain to her that her attitude / honesty is not what you want for your children. Pay her what you owe her. no more no less and let her go. But don't treat her the same as a huge company that is firing someone for embezzlement and walk her out the door. that's tacky on your part. she has been by your own words a part of your family for 2 years.
Zero notice. One week's severence pay.
And oh man do I want to start "you wouldn't believe what my nanny did" thread.
We would fire ours too, but we only have a few weeks to go that we need childcare.
im a b**ch but 2 weeks and thats that UNLESS there is a legal contract then you have to go by what is in the contract. but when you are working for a business doing whatever you normally GET fired on the spot and GIVE two weeks when quiting
I think you have tolerated her behavior a lot longer than I would have. I would maybe give her a weeks pay.
Illinois is an employment-at-will state, so you are fully within your rights to fire her on the spot without any kind of severance pay. You do have that right. She has done it to herself, and is now leaving you in a bind since you cannot trust her with your kids any longer.
On the other hand, if she has dependents of her own, I'd consider giving her 1-2 weeks of severance pay, if our own means permitted.
You have warned her by talking repeatedly to her, at this point, cut ties and find a new Nanny. IMMEDIATELY. If you want to be nice, give her an extra week pay when you give the notice, but do NOT have her in your house after you give notice.
J., you are way too nice. I would have fired her immediately. She doesn't deserve any severance or notice!!!!
I had a very similar situation so I don't blame you at all. Best wishes
Fire her with no severance pay...rolling of the eyes would be immediate termination.
If it's taken her 5 conversations just to START to get better then yes, fire her! That is ridiculous! Should have been better after one conversation and she should be grateful to have a job at all in this economy.
Fire her, and tell her to consider this her two week notice for the reasons stated above. You dont need to be rude but she needs to know that you arent satisfied with her work and therefore will not be using her anymore. Its unacceptable behavior. In that two weeks start looking for a new nanny to replace her and then that gives the old nanny time to find new work.
I wouldn't give her a severance pay nope! She doesnt sound like she deserves it and its not a company she is working for, its a nanny job. Two week notice is fine in my own opinion.
Hope you find a better nanny!
I would pay her on a Wednesday at the close of the day (for the entire week). I would just kiss off the two days without pay. I would then TAKE OFF THURSDAY AND FRIDAY from work and also try to stay around the house on the weekend in case she and her boyfriend want to come back and trash your house...
Warn the neighbors to look out.
Be nice so that she will not feel the need to retaliate!!!!!
I will start out telling you that I would NOT give her anymore chances. You should be done with her behavior, point blank. She should not be working for you anymore. Her lack of concern for your children and her attitude towards you is appalling. I am astonished that you have put up with this for so long.
J., here's the way I look at letting a naany go and what I have done. First of all, you never know how someone who is upset about being let go will treat your children. You also don't know what this woman will do to your house. She isn't going to use you as a reference EVER because you are letting her go for cause, so she may perceive that she has no incentive to behave when you give her the news. (If she would roll her eyes at you for telling her to do her job a certain way, God knows what she will say when you fire her.)
So, you should cut the ties immediately. You pay her the wages she is owed and let her leave the house. After she gets home, you call and tell her that you are making a change and she no longer has a job with you. You tell her that you THINK that you will send a severance check to her at the next scheduled payday and that will be the end. Don't tell her what the amount is. If she asks, you should tell her that you have not yet decided. You SHOULD tell her that you do not owe her one at all, by the way. If you have the ability to do it, you should consider recording the telephone conversation, and you must TELL her that the conversation is being recorded.
You do this for a few reasons. You don't want her making a scene in front of your children. You don't want her to get mad and damage any of your property. You don't want her to have time to think about what she can do in the house and you CERTAINLY don't want to leave her in your home alone or with the kids. There is too much of a chance that she would steal something or be really mean to your kids.
Most people aren't bad like this. But you are firing her for very good reasons and you don't believe in her anymore, J.. There is no good reason to keep her one minute longer and you do NOT want her there when she knows that she doesn't have a job.
Telling her that you think you may send her a severence on the next scheduled payday helps you in several ways - you do not have to feel guilty for leaving her high and dry if you give her one (you shouldn't feel guilty anyway given the severity of her bad nannying and attitude) and she will have to behave for a week or two in order to get that severence. By then, hopefully she will have calmed down and will look for another job.
When you are concerned about someone's behavior, paying a severence can be a little like "insurance" that makes them think twice about striking back. Given that she has been in your home for two years and with your children, I do think that it is wise. A two week severence is generous.
I have never had this bad of a situation. I had someone clocking hours they hadn't actually worked, and another who got lazy after being with us a long time. I gave the first one a severence with the last paycheck as she was walking out the door (no notice) and that was the last I heard from her. With the second one, I just cut her hours so much that she ended up getting another job (I made it easy on her) and we remained on good terms and she worked a little for me on and off for a good long time, because of the way I handled it. However, your situation is far different, and dicier than my lady who fudged her hours, I really think, and I would cut ties all at once and broach the subject of severence with your nanny the way I have described, if I were you, for the reasons stated above.
Please, whatever you decide about severence, DON'T keep her in your house one minute after firing her. (Firing her over the phone is better!) I don't think it's wise or safe for you to do so.
Good luck,
Dawn
What DH did when he had to fire an au pair was give her 2 weeks' notice to find somewhere to go (she was not from the US) and also to line up care for SD (who used the before/after care at the school after that). DH ended up giving her the bedding he'd bought and $300 in promised school fees, though she never did attend anywhere and I'm not convinced she applied. He just wanted her GONE. He was on pins and needles the whole 2 weeks and we were grateful SD was in school all but a few hours a day. If you have nothing in your contract like that, then just give her notice and let her go...and by "notice" I mean letting her go immediately because I wouldn't trust her to show up after that anyway.
If it's an organization like SitterCity or Care.com, I'd find out how to report this to them.
