'The Catholic Mother' Guilt Trips... My Mother Is Killing Me Here...

You want to put an end to it just don't go. My mom was much more flexible after I told her we were just staying home because it was turning into such a heartache for everyone. I think it took her by surprise I finally stood up to her.

It is only a battle if two people are fighting. Don't participate in this battle. She can't "make you" feel guilty, only you can. Don't ask her to watch your kids. Ask to visit when you want to. Invite her over when you want to - whether she says yes or no is her choice.

As far as eating at 6 - you said "6, 7ish" you needed to leave. So eat at 6:00 and leave at 6:45 and you are still within your stated timeframe. OR, leave at 6:00, feed your kids yourself, and let her keep their presents. Get out of this fight.

Hi R., I don't know what it has to do with being Catholic. My mother is deeply religious and views the Catholic Church as her Mother. But she has never behaved the way YOUR mother does.

In fact being a mother herself with 5 kids, it makes her even MORE empathatic to the restrictions on your schedule when you have young children.

I can totally relate how you don't want to stay late at her house Christmas Eve and get deal with a pack of overtired overstimulated kids. But it IS a special occasion. I also think it sucks she changed the time for dinner after you told her you had to leave by 6, sigh. But just this ONCE, can you do it her way? I know you have to deal with it ALL the time, but maybe Christmas Eve is NOT the best time to get tough with her, you know?

Maybe you can make it your New Year's Resolution to cope with your Mom's control issues.

Maybe it's not the end of the world if the baby's sleep schedule is altered just THIS ONE LAST TIME.

I wish you could communicate effectively with her, gently, kindly. Grandma's are hard to come by!

:)

I yi yi.
Your mom sounds like mine, kind of a control freak. She obviously can't handle the kids without you there since she doesnt like babysitting. Sounds more like she wants to visit with YOU for the most part.
She is sounding like she's manipulating the dinner trying to make it late so you might spend the night and be there on Christmas morning?
She is being difficult for sure. If you have other family that will be there so, she wont be alone, maybe this would be a good time to let her know that she cannot manipulate you by doing the original plan of showing up early and leaving early? This would let her know that your word is your word and she better just let you call the shots since you are the one toting 3 little ones to make visits.
Even tho it might seem rude to you to treat her that way this time, it will also make her know that she raised a strong daughter.... I think she needs to realize that.
My mom knows that I do what I want when I want.... she spent years manipulating me, she still tries but I don't let her get away with it. She has told me on several occasions that she is proud of me for always sticking to my guns once I've made a decision about something.
The suggestion that you take the kids jammies with and stay for dinner and drive home late is your only other decent option. It is Christmas and if you can bend a little for her and take the guilt off of yourself then just do what she wants. It all depends on how it will make you feel in the end.
My mom always does the "I'm not gonna be around forever you know..." guilt trip on me. lol... I hate it pretty much.
Let her know what you are made of OR just go and let her have her way.

Eat at 6, and if she hasn't don't presents by the time you want to leave, leave anyway.
I PROMISE she will find a way to get the gifts to the kids, so they won't be left short.
If she wants to make the rules, she can deal with the consequences of them. Stick to your guns, be calm in your responses and if she protests, simply point out that you already had this conversation, and she knew full well when you planned to leave.

This is the only response that works with my mother, too. I've been able to train her out of it over the years by doing this exact same thing.

Of course you want Christmas to work for you and your kids. Your mom's plans aren't going to work, but that's not your problem. Very nicely (and nicely is the key) let her know what you will be doing. Make sure she knows how much you love spending time with her and really emphasize the time that you will have with her and how excited you and the kids are about it. Whatever part of her Christmas plans you can do, do them and get really excited about it. Show her you and the kids love her.

Right now, it's very easy to dwell on the negative. That's human nature. What you really need to do is make a big deal about the positive. If there's a day that you want to invite her over, make a plan of what you'd like to do and sell it! Really get her excited about it. If there's a day you can go there, sell it! Let her know how much you want to do this. She probably feels like a burden or just a baby sitter you want to use. Make her feel special.

On Christmas Eve, could you stay a little later and put the kids in their pj's for the ride home? Would they fall asleep and be easily carried into bed? You might have to stay up a little late playing Santa, but adults can cope. It might really be worth it if the kids get to spend extra time at Grandma's house. And it will be worth it to see your mom so happy. Lots of compromising needs to happen around the holidays.

Good luck!

You sound like you are both being difficult and both need to control the environment, schedule, attendance, etc... I guess you got that from her!

Couple of thoughts-
1. You are assuming that you see her point-of-view, but you could be entirely incorrect. She may think she knows your point-of-view, but she's obviously wrong which means... automatic disconnect and anger.
2. Inviting her over to see you is entirely different than asking her to take care of the kids.
3. You agreed to have Christmas Eve at her house & told her at the outset you needed to be home by 6 or 7 to do "Santa stuff", but she has a different idea as to how the night should go.

Both of you need to step back for a couple of minutes b/c you are sucking the joy out of the holidays for both families and adding unnecessary stress. Call her and be honest with her, but try not to be rigid. The simple fact that she's hosting an "orphans lunch" should tell you quite a bit about how she is feeling right now and try to be sensitive to that. Having gone through it with my mother, it's much harder than you realize and I didn't know the half of it until she was through it and could talk about it.

You have drawn a line regarding Christmas Day and have stuck to it. Maybe Christmas Eve is something you can bend on. Let her know that you really need to be on the road by 7 at the latest b/c of the traffic and the road conditions. Unless the roast is already in the oven... ask her to have dinner at 5:00 so that there is time for dessert before you get in the car. The kids can open her gifts before dinner and spend time with before the meal.

I completely get where you are coming from on the dinner time thing, but in all reality is it the end of the world for her to do Christmas Eve "her way" when you have made the decision to do Christmas Day "your way". Part of separating from your family and creating new traditions is allowing your parents (and yourself) to mourn the passing of the former traditions... and whenever possible maintaining some elements.

The first time we celebrated Christmas and we all slept until 9:30... meaning that my parents were awake long before we were, my mother greeted us with "well, this sucks. Who needs coffee?" You'll get through it but her traditions are long-standing and need to be somewhat acknowledged without a fight.

I bent over backwards for my mother in law for over 25 years and it always came back to bite me..

I wanted to compromise, to not cause problems, but she continued to take and take.. Even the year our daughter was born and she said to me as I stood in her home on Thanksgiving holding our daughter her only grandchild, saying "Since no one will be here for Christmas this year, I am not doing anything.. No tree and I will not be cooking."

The only person not there that year for Christmas was her daughter..

My husband and I went over and helped with her tree, we prepared Christmas breakfast and Dinner.. The next year, she went all out and was mad, when we spent time at my moms for Christmas Eve, because SIL was spending Christmas day at her new inlaws and would not be there on Christmas day..

This continued every other year when SIL would be out of state for Christmas we switched to Christmas day visits to my moms to accomidate them and then SIL changed Years!!!!! Yes, Back to my entire family changing schedules.. I was a fool, I never let our daughter know any of this was going on, till one Thanksgiving she heard her grandmother say, "well since no one will be here for Christmas..." That is the last year I spoke with them. My daughter understood and told me that I should have put my foot down a long time before..

I told her "I did not want to taint her feeling for her grandmother".. Daughter told me, "Grandmother did not need any help.. she tainted herself on her own."

What I am saying is try to compromise, but do what is best for your family. Do not bend over backwards for someone that does not care and does not also bend a bit..

Your mother is lonely, she has her own vision, but you are a family also. Traveling Christmas eve is already dangerous and stressful.. Let grandma know this year it needs to be this way, but in the future, it will be able to change..

Always invite her to every little event.. That is what I did with MIL and my parents.. There were tons of opportunities to see our daughter in all sorts of situations.. Some of them participated and others NEVER came.. It is their loss, especially now that she is out of state in college..

I am sending you strength and peace.. Decide with your mommy heart and brain. NO regrets..

This is why I have the holidays at my home.

I've got a catholic mother too but this goes beyond typical guilt tripping -- holding the gifts hostage and changing plans that manipulate you is much more aggressive than passive. Two areas to concentrate on: the immediate and the general.

The immediate: Keep your own schedule for Christmas eve, and if she's not serving dinner until you'll be out the door, then plan for your own meal. DO NOT stay and be held hostage by her. If she decides to hold back their gifts, that's on her, I'm sure there will be plenty without hers. Do what you can to be a part of the evening with her, then do what's right for your own family.

General: there's a huge difference between telling a person that they are welcome to come over whenever, and actively inviting them over for a specific reason. The latter makes you feel wanted instead of just allowed to come over. Maybe she doesn't want to only be invited to babysit, but wants to be invited for time to just be together. Which is fair. I don't know your whole relationship, but think about how WANTED she feels, and consider that she's acting so badly because she's hurt and left out. You could also consider an open, warm conversation with her, asking for her input and feelings: "I feel like we spend so much time arguing and exasperated -- how do YOU think we could improve things?"

She is acting badly, and I am not excusing it, but she's also a woman who misses her kids and wants to be included. Don't give her the room and power to control you, but you can smooth things a lot more if you see her with more forgiving eyes.

What to do? Tell her what time you will be leaving her house. Then tell her she will be explaining to the kids why they aren't getting gifts from grandma - b/c they will ask, "Grandma, where are our presents?".

OK, take a breath. I hear you!

I am not a very calm, keep everyone happy sort of person. I decided long ago that I was going to work on my relationships with people, on my terms.

I made a life and a family for myself. It was quickly explained to the grandparents that WE decided that WE would do Christmas at our house because of the same issues you stated - it's harder for us to schlep the kids, gifts, etc.

You don't have to pick up the phone every time your mother calls. You have your own house, your own life and you need to stick to your guns. Here are some simple phrases that have helped me:

- I'm sorry you feel that way
- I understand that you disagree with my decision, however I'm not changing my mind
- If you can't respect my decisions, then please stop telling me your opinions. They aren't welcome
- This is what's best for our family
- We look forward to your next visit to our house
- Good talking with you, I have to go now

I truly believe that as some people's worlds get smaller and smaller - kids out of the house, not working outside of the home, not a lot to do or other people to talk with - they get all worked up about the little things...us Mommies included! Don't let your Mom hear you get upset/riled up. You're just feeding the beast.

As far as her comments about Christmas, I'd probably tell her, "Well Mom. Since you're not having dinner at your house until 6pm, I'll make sure we're out of your hair. We'll leave by 5pm so I can get the kids home and fed before bedtime. We look forward to seeing you all on Christmas Eve." If she puts up a stink tell her you are trying to accommodate HER schedule and not put her out. If it's too aggravating for her to have you and the kids come over, well, rather than upset her, you'll stay home with your family on Christmas Eve and see her whenever she wants to make the drive to your house.

You are not blaming her. Telling her she needs to change her dinner plans, etc. Get out of the blame game. You're not going to change her. So say what you are willing to do (to make it easier for her) or say, "Gee I'm sorry you're getting so upset over this." And then say goodbye.

This is really tough.

I'm a schedule person too, so I know that it's really hard to let go of that, even for a special occasion. But in this case, I would try to make an exception (a reasonable one). Can you take two cars and send your husband home early with the baby?

I would try to have a conversation with her that isn't about you two, but is about her relationship with her grandkids. It's really hard, but can work. I had kind of a blow-out with my mother a couple of years ago and basically told her that I _wanted_ her to be more a part of my kids lives, but that she had to help make that happen. It's been amazing. Invite, invite, invite. Have your mom over for brunch, Friday night dinner, just to go to the playground, etc. Don't ask her to babysit for a while (since she won't anyway). Hopefully she'll get it that you want her around, but that you can't change your whole life her for. If she doesn't get that, it becomes her problem.

Honestly, that's how it is with my MIL- kvetches that she never sees our kids, but the only way she's willing to see them is if we come to visit her, and even then she doesn't do anything "kid-like" with them. She's older and it's tough, but she just can't see that she's the one undermining her relationship with my kids.

I wish you the best of luck. It takes a little practice to meet in the middle, but I think it's worth it for your kids.

ha. my mother called it Jewish Mother guilt. We're not Jewish, but she was from New York and grew up with a lot of Jewish people. She looooooved playing the guilt card. She even referred to herself in 3rd person. "You're breaking your poor mother's heart ova here." lol It drove me crazy too. She seemed to think that we should honor her in every situation. If someone graduated from high school, she thought it was to honor her. She really thought she was the guest of honor at every function. Too annoying.
I finally decided not to participate in it. I got to where I was very firm with her. I just didn't entertain all that whining. I totally ignored it unless it was really getting out of hand - then I would call her on it.
But she passed away a couple of years ago and I wish now that I hadn't been so hard on her. She was the only mother I will ever have. And the wierd thing is, my kids and my husband treat me the way my mother expected to be treated. I don't whine and I don't make demands. I give my everything to them. And they honor me in all situations. At every special occasion they tell everyone how they couldn't have done it without me. They schedule everything around me even though I don't ask them to. My family is so good to me that it makes me feel terrible. Why wasn't I nicer to her? Why didn't I just humor her? It wouldn't have cost me anything to fawn over her a little bit. See....That mama guilt is still working on me. So, I say, treat your mom the way you want your family to treat you.

She's trying to have it all her way. Since you aren't doing it willingly, she is trying to force it. Tell her that you do still need to be home by 6-7-ish and to do so would need to LEAVE no later than 6 pm. If dinner isn't being served until then, tell her that you will be there to visit earlier in the day and spend several hours with her but will not be joining her for dinner...and then do just that.

You can also tell her that it is shame that she would consider punishing her grandchildren because the two of you aren't in agreement.

In the spirit of Christmas, if you could arrange to leave a bit later (7 pm) it may be well worth the hassle.

I have had the same type of problems over the years (more w/ my MIL) and my hubby would always try to appease her which always ruined my holiday. The first year we put our foot down, she was surprised but she now knows that we mean what we say....not to sound rude but we have my parents (who have not been together since before I born, my aunt and uncle who raised me, AND my in-laws to visit) so when we have a time schedule worked out, there is little wiggle room (and my inlawas always get more time since we do a huge family get-together before Christmas, Christmas Eve dinner, and are back the day after Christmas because of my FIL's birthday but they still wanted us there for Christmas morning). We stay home on Christmas Day and anyone/everyone is welcome but we don't go anywhere.

By the way, the saying no to watching the kids is her way of saying "I want to see them when I want and on my terms (you to do the traveling)". The next time she starts tell her "Mom, you know where we live and you are always welcome to visit". If that doesn't work, tell her specifically all the opportunities you have given her and tell her the ball is now in her court". Get someone reliable the next time you have plans.

Ok, not sure why this is entitled "Catholic Mother" guilt trips. It has nothing to do with your mother's religion, but rather with the fact that she is a controlling person who has a hard time accepting the fact that her children have grown up and have new priorities in their lives.

Just as an FYI, "Catholic guilt" refers to moral guilt trips, not with micromanaging the schedules of other people. My mother is more Catholic than the Pope, but she has not ONCE guilted me about not getting to see us as much as she'd like (we live 400 miles, so we have a bit more of an excuse than if we were only 1 hr away.) When she does see us, she ALWAYS asks to babysit the kids, even if it is just so I can go run a few errands. She'll be coming to take care of our 2 kids when I deliver our 3rd in April. So, please distance yourself from the idea that your mother's personality flaws have ANYTHING to do with her denomination.

(My MIL, on the other hand, has guilt trips down to a fine art. She will break into tears on the phone, begging us to move to CA, where she and my FIL moved 2 years ago. Telling me how lonely they are...um, yeah, guilt trips don't work on me, since my family has never used them. She finally gave up and told me that she will stop begging us to move, as she has finally seen that I will never yield to such demands.)

Call your mother's bluff--see if she returns the gifts for the kids, or if, someday, she gets them to you one way or another.

I'm with Momma11. I would tell her that it's unfortunate that she is punishing her own grandchildren to try and get her way and that you gave her plenty of notice that you needed to leave by 6:00. I would also ask her if she is really planning on keeping the presents from your children. If so, I would probably tell her that you will see her after Christmas then and leave it at that. It's not fair to your kids to go over there and see other kids getting presents when they are not, simply because your mom is stomping her feet and pouting. Good luck!

Well I think there are two different issues here - your life with her in general and Christmas. At Christmas people always want to do what they want to do, even if it doesn't work out for us with younger children. We'll be going to my in laws as we always do and we are always there untill 10-11ish and now that my son is on a pretty rigid schedule with sleep, I asked to move it up so we can leave by 7/8ish. I never got an answer but in reality, my husband is 1 of 9 kids and they will not be changing the time for US because there are 8 other people/other grandkids schedules to take into consideration. I tell him that someday when everyone has young kids, they will probably change it. So do I like it that we may be there late? No, but we just do Santa stuff before we go and the kids fall asleep on the way home and hubby and I don't get to bed until 1 or 2am and then the kids are up around 5/6am. I'd much rather get home, get them in bed, do Santa stuff and then get a good night's sleep before we do it all over again (2x actually since we go to my parents house on Christmas day!).

But with the other 364 days of the year...it sounds like a compromise may be what is needed. It sounds like she wants to be able to see and enjoy the kids without watching/babysitting them. She wants to spoil and love on them but then not have to change diapers/feed them/etc. And that is her right (although not really fair since you are driving an hour to see her!). She may not realize (or remember) how much work it is to pack up and haul kids an hour each way to see her for a few hours. Here is what I would suggest (to keep the peace). Explain to her that an hour drive is far, but you are willing to compromise. Every third time you guys get together, go to her house. Another time she can come to your house. And the third time, meet 1/2 hour away. It could be at a restaurant for an hour, a park in the summer and pack a picnic, etc. Tell her that you want her in your children's lives and this is the best offer you can give. And I'd leave it at that.

Good luck!