So, in Florida, the state mandated cap on class size is 18 kids for Kindergarten. My daughter's class has had 22 kids since school started and just got another girl today. There are 23 five year olds in my daughter's class and only ONE teacher with NO aide! I have been volunteering in the classroom once per week since school started and this poor teacher is just overwhelmed. There are several kids that JUST made the age cutoff or had summer birthdays, so they just turned 5. A lot of these kids are boys and it shows, big time. The teacher is spending a majority of her time chasing kids around the room trying to get them to follow directions and there is little time left to actually teach them anything. I will say that I feel like she is doing what she can (informing the parents, school administration, even called the principal on a kid last week), but this is just not an environment in which my daughter can actually learn anything. Not to mention the fact that my daughter is already reading and adding, subtracting and multiplying and her curriculum is teaching letters and numbers up to 5. I find this all very disconcerting and I'm not sure what to do about it.
So, my question really is what to do about the fact that the class size exceeds the legal limit. I mean, what is the point of having a law against class sizes exceeding a certain number if EVERY kinder class in the school (I believe there are 4 of them) are over that limit by more than 20%? Should I talk to the principal about it? Would it make any difference?
I should explain that my feelings have been exacerbated by the fact that I volunteered today at my son's preschool (which is a private school that also has K-8th grade) and the other Mom's that had kids in kinder just RAVED about the school and about what the kids were learning. They also said that the kids are moved up for specific subjects if they are ahead (such as a kinder kid that gets put with the 1st or 2nd graders for Math, Reading, Language Arts, etc. depending on their aptitude). This scenario sounds PERFECT for my daughter who is ahead in math and reading. Of course, the issue here is cost. Private school is expensive and we moved to this particular area because every elementary school in this district is "A" rated. Our particular school is considered the best in the district and yet, I'm so disappointed with what's happening that I'm ready to start cutting our budget so that we can afford to send her to this private school. I have always wanted to support public schools because I feel like they get a bad rap, but from what I'm seeing, they have earned the reputation they have! My daughter's school is overcrowded, the teachers are overworked and budgets are being slashed at every turn. Don't get me wrong, everyone is super nice, but I have serious reservations about the quality of education my daughter will get at this school and it makes me sad.
Anyway, now that I have rambled, I'll get off of my soap box. I guess I would just like to get some other opinions on what you would do in this situation. Should I try to talk to the school and see why they are past the limit and what they plan to do about it or is it a waste of my time? My daughter's teacher told me today that if even a couple of kids are out sick, it makes a huge difference in her day and that the class seems more manageable. It really isn't fair to the teachers either. Sigh....
Thanks for our thoughts!
ETA: To the person that mentioned averages....that is not how it works here. They just passed a new law for last school year that did away with the "average" issue. Each class is required to be under the limit. I would be fine if they had an aide for her so that the aide could help deal with the behavior issues while the teacher did the teaching, but she's there all by herself. They all are. There are no aides at all, not even a shared one. I just find it a bit ridiculous.
I would talk to the principal first, after all most laws have a back door in case there is a reason a school has to take on extra students. That would be the quickest way to find out why it happened.
With State Budgets being cut.. The first thing Gov. Perry cut was public education.. I know unbelievable since the State of Texas over all is one of the lowest rated because of our low graduation rates. . The school districts are sometimes given waivers to increase class sizes. .
At our elementary school The cut off is also 18, but unless there is enough students to make up another class of at least 18, then the children are split up. Example. 4 classrooms each with 4 extra students is not enough to hire another teacher and have the extra room with books supplies etc. It is not financially feasible.
This is why this is a great time for your kinder teachers to request parent volunteers as much as possible. Parents are a valuable resource at these times.
Speak with your Principal and see if they have any ideas of how to gain another classroom and teacher. The hard part is that IF you do start a new classroom. How many parents are willing to switch their children out of their current classes into a new one? And who is willing to take a late hire teacher new to the campus? Be sure if you ask for this you are willing to make your child one of the ones being moved, so you can convice others it is a good idea.
I guess you can tell I have been through this before.
Thank you Gov. George W Bush and now Gov. Perry.
The laws usually read that the average class size is ..... That means that there can be classes of 35 and classes of 10. Overall, if you take all the classes at that school and average them out, if they number is 18 (or whatever your state mandates) then you're ok. Our mandated class size is something like 25, but I've had 36 students before. However, because we have some elective classes that are 8 students, it all averages out in the end.
Be careful what you wish for... Some people in our district thought class sizes were too high. Well there was no room to add another classroom in the elementary schools so instead the district built a new school. Our school taxes went up 5.9% last year to help pay for the school. They went up 2.9% this year. (we are paying $4000 more per year then when we moved here 9 yrs ago... Crazy) Now the ironic thing is since the budget is so tight, they had to increase class sizes to cut cost by laying off teachers in each grade. Unbelievable!
My personal opinion is that there are so many opportunities for kids to get a great education if parents and their kids are willing to do a little work on their own. Check out Kahn Academy online or your local library. We now have access to the books used in the best Universities in the world. Shame on you if you don't take advantage of it;)
Unfortunately there is nothing your principal can do. Funding to education has been slashed dramatically. Our politicians in office are making these decisions and the only way you can impact it is with your vote during elections. I truly believe funding can and should be there for education and that government is purposely trying to destroy the public education system so people can profit off of charter and private schools with vouchers. In addition to the state cuts coming from the governor, many broward county school board officials are corrupt and have actually been arrested. There is a tremendous mismanagement of funds. Being a teacher these days has become very difficult in the classroom and financially. Did you know that on a teachers salary your kids can qualify for the subsidized medikids program because teachers are actually poor? I teach high school and some teachers have 40 students in a class. It is an unworkable situation and in the end the kids and society as a whole lose out. I will tell you that official class counts for class size isn't until October and the Broward county school board for the past two years has "suddenly" come up with money to help meet class size right before the date and has done a mass hiring and shuffling of students. This is horrible for the students who have just adjusted to classes and the poor teachers that get hired every time are on temporary contracts until the end of the year and have to wait 3 months for their insurance to kick in again. I personally think its planned in advance to do this every year because it saves the district paying the teachers for two months and save on their health insurance costs for 5 months. It is a terrible way to save money. Maybe this will be the third year in a row. I'd love to know if that turn out to be the case come mid October. Just keep in mind it really is not the school's fault. Good Luck. I'd love to hear an update.
This is one of the big reasons we homeschool.
My daughter's Kinder class was 25 kids, no aide and the parents were not allowed into the classrooms. We had to work in the parent workroom, near the office.
My daughter went in hitting most of the 1st grade benchmarks. She came out sick every day, potty accidents every day, crying all the time, so stressed out.
How long are you willing to let this go? I let it go for 5 years. I finally pulled her out in 4th. She was a complete basket-case. But I kept thinking the schools know what they are doing, they are trying. BS!! THe teachers are over worked an underpaid, and it's all about the test scores and federal money they can get.
It's taken me 3 years to get her back on track.
Go to the principal, the school board, and the state's education association. Make a stink for your daughter and all the other little ones who have no voice.
Good luck.
When did school start?
They may quite possibly be in the midst of hiring more teachers & you just don't know it yet. It takes a while to get the approval to hire & then actually go through the hiring process. I would ask about that before I started making a fuss, personally. That, and maybe just wait to see if things fall into place, if school started within the last month. The first month is a period of adjustment, learning routines, expectations, etc. A good teacher should be able to handle 23 kids, which, honestly isn't really that bad, compared to some public schools.
Our state doesn't have a class size cap, but, luckily, the school district was able to hire 2 more Kinder teachers, on top of the original 3 they already had. I was really freaked out about class size until I found that out.
Public schools get money for each student enrolled, so more students equal more money & the class size seems to go out the door. It's sad, really.
If they really enforce the caps, then where do all the extra, last minute, open enrollment kids go? Money either has to be spent on hiring new teachers, or building more schools, all of which cost the taxpayers money. They can't tell a kid "sorry, you can't go to school".
My son is in K as well. His class is 18 but there are several empty desks. I don't know of there being a limit in my state. I do recall having classes of 22 or 23 in Elementary school--but not in the first few years. Also one year there were just a few too many kids but not enough for a whole class. The school made a combined 3rd/4th class for a year. it wasn't ideal but the class size was smaller. Maybe the school could do a "young 5" and preK class or something. What about getting an aide? I'd talk to the principal and see if there is anything being done (you might need to organize with other parents to get some action). Otherwise if the class is poor fit see about the private school. The private pre-K we sent my son to really prepared him well for K.
I will be in this boat next yr when my son starts K & I'm already scared thinking about it! I have mom friends who are also K teachers & just to hear them talk about what the budget cuts did to their schools, etc, I'm like, omg! One teacher has 23 kids & no aides, I've always thought there are teachers' aide in K but they don't! I feel bad for the teachers AND the kids. Fr what they tell me, there is nothing the parents can do if they complain about the class sizes (I maybe wrong).
Private school is certainly a consideration for you if you can afford it. Wish we can too!
have you called the school board and superintendent. Time to start ruffling some feathers. (by the way that is pretty typical #'s where I live. )
V.,
I'm in Ft. Lauderdale - which elementary are you talking about? Keep in mind that "A" has to do with the improvement in test scores NOT that test scores are necessarily good. That being said, before the class size cap law was put into place, it was not uncommon to have kindergartens with 35 kids and no aid. I know this because my mom is a teacher in Broward County (since 1985) and my son's kindergarten teacher has been teaching elementary for 32 years.
I asked at our school because my son's kindergarten class has 20. The classes do not have to be at or under the limit. The law was changed during the last election - so that the schools do not have to put together a new class if they don't have another class worth of students. It was meant to save the districts money. At our elementary, there are 3 kindergartens and the class sizes are 20, 19 and 21 for a total of 6 additional students. Keep in mind that this is public school so if another kid moves into the district at any point during the school year - the school MUST take them. Based on the current law, our elementary does not need another class of kindergarten.
I hear you about the budgets and if you are a voter then vote, attend school board meetings, PTA meetings, and be involved in your school. Our PTA raised almost $60K last year to provide the teachers with extra money, help keep the Spanish teacher in our school, pay for new playground equipment and fund equipment for the music teacher. I know that this is almost unheard of but that is one of the reasons why we are in this elementary (we are on a reassignment - this is not my boundary school). I do believe you get what you put into it and the parents at our elementary put a ton into it. Unfortunately, most of the students will then go on to private middle and high schools - it seems the parents are burnt out by the time their children are going to middle school.
Have you had your kindergarten curriculum meeting yet? Ours is October 1st. That being said, in public school, after the teacher has had a chance to evaluate each student (that is just starting this week in our elementary) then they will be grouped according to ability. Feel free to ask your daughter's teacher about her grouping. Some differentiation will be made for reading, math and writing at that point. However, they are not allowed to do what your private school is doing in terms of placing a student in another grade for one subject.
I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have if you want to contact me directly.
Sincerely,
C.
I would call the state board of education and file a formal complaint. If they don't have the money to pay another teacher to make the overflow into another class then the board must do something, they just can't tell the students "no" that they just can't come to school. Kindergarten is required so they have to have the classes but if no one is policing the lawbreakers then someone has to make them listen.
If you can swing keeping your kid out of public do so. Either apply for one of the magnets in the area or get him into a private. In public, teachers are overwhelmed, in fear for their job, bullying is not addressed correctly and usually its the victim who continues to suffer. If you can't be part of the pta your child is screwed. We started in public had really good teachers and really bad teachers. Over all not the best environment though. She is in private and loving it. Remember though especially in Florida all privates are not equal. Some are really bad. On a side note being an A school has nothing to do with how good the school is. Its just grades. While grades are important so is the other aspects as well.
