Son's Behavior at School

Hello,

Sorry if I'm repeating advice, just wanted to give you a little feedback from my perspective. It sounds like it is just not the right environment for him. If this is a regular problem for the teacher, I doubt they are going to change things now. Montessori schools are not for everyone, especially as children get older. My guess is he is a bright kid and isn't being challenged or motivated by the school's system. Try not to worry too much and best of luck to you!

I am in agreement with what the other mom's have said.
Is there another classroom you can move him into? Get him away from "bad" examples? And maybe this program may not be suited for his personality. Every day if you were told you were behaving badly, how would that make you feel?

Montessori is not for everyone. I was a Montessori kid but my other three siblings attended other preschools with different philosophies. I would look for a schools in the future that are not as structured as a Montessori classroom (always left to right, top to bottom, you are not done until you have mastered a skill - not everyone wants to be a technician! I became one.) Remember Montessori was developed during the industrial revolution with handicapped and poor children teaching them to be successful in that time of history. Then it was applied to everyone.

One sister is an artist and pastor - she thrives on the Reggio Amelia type philosophy. My brother is a bit like me but needed more freedom to look and do longer. My youngest sister is totally into exploratory science and needs lots of encouragement - she would thrive in a free play situation far better than structures and she is studying physics in college now.

I don't know your son, but maybe rethink the philosophy of the school and whether it matches your son's strengths.

Dear S.,
Sorry you're going through this. Dang.
It sounds to me like your son is almost daring that teacher to take a firm hand with him. He knows he's disruptive, he knows you get calls at work and notes sent home, he knows this is what his behavior results in. I think he knows he needs a different result. He's kind of begging for it, really.
I'm sure the teacher DOESN'T have the time to deal with an unruly child. I would try to see if you can surprise supervise...see for yourself what's going on.
Maybe the teacher is too permissive and sweet in her approach and all your son needs is for her to have the upper hand. Maybe she's tried that and your son still defies her. You won't know unless you can observe for yourself.
One of my son's best friends since they were babies, was in trouble all the time at school. He's very intelligent and was pretty mannerly most of the time, but he was an animal at school. He didn't listen, wouldn't sit down. Wouldn't shut up. The teacher recommended that he repeat kindergarten in a mixed K and first grade. The parents through a FIT! They were certain the teacher was crazy... She'd been a K teacher for 25 years and had obviously lost her mind...
They relented and allowed her another year with him. His maturity level was such that he was not ready for first grade, let alone K when they started him. He thought school was about being with other kids and running around and playing and he didn't want to do the other stuff....like sit still and listen. He had to learn that's how school works. Sometimes you can play and sometimes you have to sit down. It's not really a choice. And the parents needed to stop being mad at the teacher and not making their son responsible for his own behavior by blaming her. Their son acted like an animal and they saw it for themselves.
He doesn't have ADHD, food allergies or any other thing wrong with him. He's super smart, in fact and is now a Freshman in high school with all the other kids he started out in the beginning with. He needed an extra year to be ready and a woman willing to spend an extra year with him riding his little hiney. He easily did 1st grade work, but he was socially immature. And, an only child who really had no clue that every minute of every day wasn't all about him.
(Can we say "spoiled" without anybody on here being offended?)
One thing you do know is that this has become an issue and you need to look into it and deal with it further.
Being naughty at school just isn't an option.
I don't want to give away my age or anything, but back in the day, acting up got you a long walk to the principal's office. Your name on the board with a sad face next to it was your warning. After that.....it was the walk of shame. It was the same exact route to the nurse's office in case you were sick or something. But walking to the office in trouble? Oh man. And if they were going to call your mother? Oh God!
Follow through with everything you've already started but also observe and have an open mind. I think you will likely see a very big difference in your son between now and even 6 months, let alone when he turns 6 in a year. He's not quite 5 and with patience and being really firm about his expected behavior, it's highly possible he will be a different kid very soon just by virtue of getting a little older.

I wish you the best.

Hello,

You probably have already heard this suggestion, but have you tried exercising him before school? I have a friend who had similar problems, and when she started walking her son to school (1 mile) it made a big difference. My husband had similar behavior issues when he was a child, and then he started swimming. He would swim an hour before school every day, and it would just clear his mind. He said it made all the difference in the world for him.

I hope you get some good advice. I know this must be very hard.

J.

I have a friend (son is now in second grade) who went through this with his last year of preschool. The school really was changing even how they perceived their own kid (from "sweetheart" to a "handful"). The school raised the rates $$ dramatically, so they left and **poof** they found an active boy friendly school and everything changed.
Suddenly he was a sweetheart again, performing at the high level everyone expected, and he didn't see himself as "the bad kid". He had a warm relationship with the teacher, and she came to his bday party even when he was in kindergarten!

The boy 2 houses over had a similar issue. He went to an expensive private preschool with a stellar reputation, but he was known as a handful and didn't get into the private school of his parent's choice. At my house I had to keep a VERY close watch on him because of his antics (he was known to endanger my daughter). Then he and my daughter landed in the same kindergarten class and as I volunteer a lot, I got to see him "in action". The kindergarten teacher had three boys of her own (now adults) and had done cub scouts - she knew BOYS and loved them. Sure enough their crazy high energy antics were "normal" for her, didn't make her blink, and she knew how to channel them to be productive little learners.
The boy next door still had his moments even after 9 months of her, but he went from standing on his chair during the first private school interview, to having a nice portfolio of work and getting in. He did learn how to control himself in the classroom.

I am sorry if this is a SUPER long post, but I wanted to let you know why as much as I have some really dear friends who are teachers, there are w/o a doubt those who "specialize" in high energy boys and know how to work with them.

I hope you can find the right situation for your son!

Hi S.,

I know it's frustrating trying to figure out why a child acts a certain way hang in there. I am a mom of three boys, all very different. My youngest would have anger issuies at home and at school when he started Kindergarten. I went into the classroom to observe from a place were he couldn't see me. I watched his behavior happen everytime they he was asked to do certain tasks, he didn't understand and would get frustrated so he would try to leave group. needless to say, we had him tested and he has dyslexia,disgraphia. After this was found he went to tutors with the school disctrict as well as privately. He started to understand his attitude changed! He is a great young man that loves to write scripts, produce, and direct films! He was on the honor roll all through jr. high and high school. He attends college and has a job in the film industry he loves. Everyone loves him and he is happy!

My point I guess is to go fwatch his class see what triggers him, that will give you a better idea of how to proceed. Find something he is good at and have him do it a lot. If he is a good story teller have him dictate to you his stories or tape record them get him to draw pictures of the story and put them together in a book. give him clay show him how to make snakes and balls use these to make letters or creatures. Everytime my boys started to act up I asked them to run around the back yard to see how many laps they could do. It got all the extra energy out of them and then they could sit and do whatever we were doing and they slept better at night.

I Hope this helps! Hang in there, this to shall pass.....

It sounds like your son is a bit out of sorts since hi soriginal teacher left. It's hard for little kids to have somthign as big as a teacher leave. Also, it sounds like he's a pretty normal 4 year old. My son would have reaced the same way. He's a tester. He's not bad, he just needs to know what will happen if he does this and that.

I'm not sure that the school/teacher is a good fit right now. I would definitely NOT treat him like there is something wrong with him AT ALL. Some schools are set up to deal only with children who really like to follow direction. Others are set up to nurture a broader range of children. I would take a deep breath, do something fun with my kid, and start looking at the picture differently. Get the county eval. and think about it. See if it makes sense to you. Look into other schools, and consider giving him what is called 'the gift of time'. Consider having him go to a young 5's class next year if that makes sense to you. THere is nothing wrong with letting him get his yaya's out at preschool instead of elementary school. My son has a Sept birthday and we started him in K when he was turning six. MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE. It was a big favor to him to let him be a BIG KID instead of a LITTLE KID for the rest of his school years.

Anyway, don't stress too much just because THIS school doesn't have the background to handle an energetic kid. IT"S NOT HIS FAULT!!!! Stay on his side!

If you're near Mtn View I can recommend a good preschool/young 5's program.

Good luck,
M.

Hi S.,

You mention that this behavior started when the teacher changed. Do you know that to really be the trigger? I would wonder if you can talk with his old teacher because he or she might have had some really good ways of working with your son. What I mean is that the behaviors may not have been triggered by the change, the intensity of them was.

The new teacher may need to learn to be more directive and sometimes the kind and soft-spoken approach doesn't work well for classroom management. I hope this gives you the idea of asking the school how the new teacher's approach may need to be considered in this change of your son''s (and the other boy's) behavior. New teacher need help, too.

Finally, I wondered how your son felt about losing his old teacher. Sometimes kids act out because they are mad and sad and don't know how to handle these changes. Children do form attachments to other important adults and we parents should remember to help them grieve and be sad about things they cannot control or change.

A final idea is to ask the school is a behavior analyst or specialist can go into the classroom for a few days and assess the triggers in the environment. This way you all would have a better idea of the roles the teacher, your son, this other boy, and the classroom environment play in his behavior. Remember, his behavior is probably a symptom for something and it may be a response to his environment.

Cheers,

L.

Hi,
Different schools work for different types of kids. your son may respond better to less or more structure then he is getting now. He may also just be a bit imature. He is only 4, lots of boys are not ready for kindergarten until they are 6. If that is the case for your son, you may be asking him to do school work that he won't be ready for until next year. If you changed your goal of kindergarten to 2011, would it change how you are dealing with the issues he is having. Does he just need to go to a less structured environment for awhile and play more, at least until next year?
Good luck
J.

I agree with the post about having him evaluated for ADHD. if he has it, you'll know and can start parenting him a certain way. If he doesn't, you can explore other options. It is likely that he will have to be watched a little longer before a determination can be made since he is still quite young.

Behavior issues and ADHD can often be helped by a change in diet. There are several foods in particular (often gluten and dairy) that cause the problems you've mentioned. These are food intolerences rather than food allergies. They can cause a release of antibodies rather than histhamines. Removing them from the diet can make a huge difference in your child and in your family life! I've seen it work and it is amazing. I won't go into it here but, if you are interested in this, feel free to contact me and I'll share with you what has worked for us. I can also give you the name of some books. Searching on the internet is helpful but can be overwhelming! Read all you can.

Take care! :)

My son also had difficulties in preschool when he was four and it caused me a lot of grief. I coordinated with the preschool teacher to create a sticker program at school, so my son got a sticker for every hour and a half or two hours that he followed directions and was safe with other children. At the end of the day, I gave him a reward based upon the number of stickers he received. After that, it was over and I didn't review the events of the school day.

You don't want your son to think of himself as "bad" or the "bad kid." At night before bed, you could review all the good things he did during the day and all the things you love about him. That is a much better way to end the day than to be reminded of all the things he didn't do.

Four year olds--especially four year old boys--tend to be wild and test limits. You should check out the book "Your Four Year Old:Wild and Wonderful" by Ames and Haber just to give yourself some perspective.

This doesnt sound like a true montessori school, altenative learning beacause they would think of ways to keep your child active. I have a son and went through the exact same thing; recommending some program putting him on half days, pushing him off to the side.. the best thing to do is find him another school! a school that works with him and you to help him learn, small classes, whatever works. I thought come kindergarten I would have extra money in my pocket because no more daycare or preschool fees.... NO! but my son is in the best school for him, at least currently, it may change and you have to be ready to take action.

At 4 years old expecting ALL self control to come from within is just too high an expectation.
It sounds like this is not the best situation for him. Not because of the curriculum, but because the staff are not providing enough discipline. You say the problem started with this teacher, he has never had this problem before, other boys of similar temprament have had to leave the school. I have a 3 year old who is high energy and loves to test boundaries and his preschool has no trouble with him. Stop blaming yourself and your son - look for a new school!

Sounds like the wrong kind of teacher for your son. Is there another teacher he can switch to? It seems like he is the kind of kid who needs a stricter teacher. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with your son, it's just that some kids can run circles around some kinds of teachers, and will if they can.

So before you give your kid a label (ADHD), and then buckle to pressure to medicate him because of it, try a teacher who can handle him. Over the last two decades I've seen many teachers who just were not capable of handling active kids - neither teacher nor child were wrong, they were just not the right fit for each other. I know a teacher or two who can take just about any "difficult" child and make him sit still and behave.

Hi S.,
I'm not a mom of this type of child, but I am a family therapist, and here's what I would suggest, if you haven't tried it already: have a family meeting. Get your son and any one else who's being affected by this situation together at a table. Explain that the family (not your son) has a problem because of all the notes and phone calls, and the family needs a solution. Ask everyone for ideas, write them all down, then pick the best. Some might be switching your son's school, seeing if he could have more exercise scheduled into his day-- even just a run to the other end of the hall and back-- continuing with the stickers, etc. You might be surprised at what your son will suggest. Once everyone's made suggestions, go through the list and pick (you and your husband get final say in this0 which solution you want to try. Agree on how long you will try it, and then check in again. This often works very well because children feel invested in the solution, since they helped to come up with it.
Good luck!

Hi S.,

I would really take the time to see if this school is a good fit. I personally would pull my son out of the school if they only teach to the "middle." Not every child is in the "middle."

It is damanging to your son and to you, for the school to be labeling your son bad. I can only imagine how stessful it is for you to get daily calls, notes, etc. Not only does that make you anxious, but then you feel you must address it with your son! Shoot...your son is hearing about his "bad" behavior at school and then later at home. Right now, your son is taking all this information and developing his sense of self.....it's important that he's included, not excluded.

Your son is energetic and assertive...they should develop a curriculum around that, not exclude him. The school is focusing on how challenging he is...how exhausting and unrewarding that narrow focus is. That just signles to me that they don't understand temperment, and curriculum development that allows the entire classroom to thrive...not just the "easy" kids.

You should feel wonderful to have an energetic and assertive son. How lucky is he to have such traits that will serve him well when he is older! We must change our behaviors to suit the child, not the other way around. Parents and teachers of "feisty, energetic, and assertive" kids have to parent and teach differently. If they don't get that, it's just damaging the children who are feisty, energetic and assertive.

S.

The impression I'm getting is that this behavior has started since the teacher change. I'm guessing he really liked the former teacher and is acting out partly because he misses her. It also sounds like the new teacher needs to learn how to be firm with him without losing control. This isn't easy for every teacher, and from what you're saying, it sounds like maybe the staff of the school has some issues in how to discipline strong willed children. Those of us in early childhood education have been taught so much how to be nice to the children... and that's real important... that we sometimes don't get how to be nice while being firm.

What I also think I'm hearing is that his behavior at home has not changed, or at least not that much, which is another indicator to me that a lot of the problem is that the teacher needs to learn how to handle discipline better.
This is not to say that your son doesn't have a problem that you need to deal with, just that it isn't all him.

I'm not sure your sticker chart at home is doing any good. In my experience, that sort of thing usually isn't effective enough to warrant the effort it takes. I guess for some kids it is helpful, but I haven't had any success with it.

What I think you might try is to bring up conversation with him regarding his feelings about his old teacher, her leaving, and what is happening in his new class. This won't help if it's precipitated because of a behavior issue you're dealing with, so bring it up at a time when things are going smoothly, and it isn't connected with his behavior. Just make it a conversational topic where you are simply interested in what's going on in his life. You may be surprised and find out something that is significant to his problems that will help you and the school work it through.

Worst case scenario... you may need to consider finding a new school for him. If that is the case, it isn't the end of the world. Montessori type schools are supposed to be more kid friendly, and they have a great program, but I found in working with one that they also are more rigid in some aspects. He may do better in a different type of school.

Give the county program some time, and be patient with your son, and alert to what may be going on at his school. I would also find a way to drop in occasionally, unexpected, to his school just so you can see for yourself what's happening. Try to go there at several different times of the day over a period of a few weeks if you can. You don't say whether you are working outside the home, but if so, have a talk with your boss and see if you can get permission to take lunch break at odd times of the day in order to do this.

Good luck with this, and do keep us posted as to his progress, and what happens.

Greetings S.: As the mother of 5, a foster parent to many children and now the Grandmother of several children, I have been right where you are many times.
You son, may just not be the type to handle the structure of Montessori school. As much as I like that enviroment for learning, it has not been right for all of my children. I can share a couple of things we have done over the years for you to consider... For some of our children we put them into a Parent Co-Op enviroment, that helped with the frustrations and challenges of early schooling. He may not be ready to settle down in anything but a relaxed setting.
Does he like playing with other children? Invite 1-2 at a time over so that you see how he interacts with them. I have found that stickers and charts didn't work for most of the children here. We gave pennies, they are great to fit into a pocket and a jar on a childs dresser. If they had trouble at school, they had to give me back 5 cents. I learned quickly that this effect was a great lesson.
Children, all learn at different rates and stages , so remind him often how much you appreciate being his mother, that he is cherished and loved. When he is gong off to school just whisper in his ear that you are sure he is going to try his best today, and that you love him no matter what. One of my sons, was blessed to recognize that our son, did better on the celinging and that he was still listening and could answer any question that she asked. She taught math using Dino. bones and he is a college graduate. Nana G

I think the evalation through the county is a good idea, and in your shoes, I would use their findings as a guide in what to do for your son. That said, though, you know your son better than they do. If they have findings that make you wonder "what kid are they talking about?", then you have to listen to your gut, too. It could be that the soft-spoken teacher has always been kind of "in the background" rather than a figure of respect in your son's perception and he is now revolting against a lack of authority. I don't know too much about the Montessori method, but it could also be that your boy would rather have more structure in his day so he does not have the chance to act out and a new school might be the best answer.

Is it possible the behavior was going on before (not all teachers are good about sharing what's going on, I've found) and do you see similar behavior at home? If so, I would initiate talks with his pediatrician about the situation. Our son has ADHD and his behavior was just as you described. We had the "we're hitting our limit" talks with his preschool and they eventually kicked him out. Private schools can and will do that. Montessori is known for being particularly rough for kids with ADHD because it lacks structure. Now, if his behavior has only suddenly started to hit extreme levels and he's calm and focused at home, then you can pretty quickly rule out ADHD because it's a constant condition. A pediatrician can't diagnose serious conditions like ADHD, but can refer you to behavioral therapists and psychiatrists who may be able to help.

Good luck! Hope you're able to get the help you need during this challenging time.

You did not specify this, but I have the impression that your son did not have these behavior problems with his teacher before, and it is only with the "replacement teacher" that he started acting up.

IF this is the case, then it is obviously the teacher's failure, and she needs to be trained to handle it.

Because this is a private school, however, they can pretty much do whatever they want! Parents are paying them to give their kids attention, and because your son is requiring so much...the other kids are not getting it, and so their parents might all start to complain! Well, then the school has a choice of disappointing/losing ONE parent, or a whole bunch of parents. Guess what they will choose?
In a public school there are certain rules they must conform to, and they can't kick kids out, except for repeated violence and other serious offenses.

You want reassurance that you are doing the right thing--in THEORY you are. I have a BA in Child development and I have worked in schools for several years (as a behavior specialist), and I have 3 boys at home. I know the theories. I also know that there are some exceptional kids who defy logic. Some kids are really unusual...as in amazingly stubborn and willful. Some kids have a curious mind and a strange sense of humor---they like to see how a person will react, and they will take it to the limit, just to find out.
All kids need clear boundaries...but some will cross the boundaries anyway, because they just have to find out what will happen, or because they know what will happen and they think it is fascinating and/or hilarious, and they don't care if they are punished.
One of my boys used to knock his big brothers' building blocks over a dozen times in a row, even if he got hit by his brothers (both scary and painful for him). He told me he really didn't like getting hit, and he knew he would be hit, but he liked knocking the blocks over MORE than he didn't like getting hit. That was his "cost/benefit analysis"--a giggle was worth getting hit.

As for what you can do (without knowing your child, and not knowing if the speech/social skill class is related to a serious social disability) all I can say for sure is that stickers aren't going to cut it.
If he cared about approval and stickers, he would have changed his behavior. If he doesn't defy you at home, he is clearly already CAPABLE of self control. Self control is not the issue---he is making a choice to act this way with this teacher. He is getting something out of it, and you may have to balance that with something negative.

If you are not sure what will specifically motivate him, or what he is trying to gain with his behavior, you can just be very strict---meaning zero tolerance. BIG consequences immediately and consistently, every time (like the whole world turns upside down for him).
When he sees that life is bad for him on days that he acts up, he'll change, because he'll see that it (whatever enjoyment he gets from messing with the teacher) isn't worth the disaster that follows at home.
Whatever is a disaster for your son, only you would know---for some kids it is endless lectures with them as a captive audience, for others it is being left alone (no talking to them or looking at them, or even being in the same room), or for others it's having to do endless chores, or losing all their toys--or some combination of all of those.

Hi S. -

My son, who is now 6, was at a Montessori for 2 years. He did well when he was in a class of about 12, but he always needed redirection and supervision. He too is very high energy, and although they worked with him, he struggled. When he got moved up to the pre-K/K class room, it was too much. There was too much stimulation and even though there was the proper ratio of teachers to students, there was simply too much going on in one space. It is terrific that you are working so diligently and are consistent. There is a wonderful book that helped me tremendously understand the differences of boys, "The Wonder of Boys." It is awesome and not only cites the emotional difference, but the physiological differences as well. The brain is significantly different than girls. Their frontal lobes don't come in as soon as girls- usually between 5-6, and the corpus collosum, which connects both left and right brains, is 1/3 the size of the female brain! So, if your son is being referred for occupational therapy and they think he has a processing disorder great, but if they are just referring him to refer him because they don't know what to do, then be careful. What you focus on gets bigger, and although all of our children need discipline and structure, you may want to focus on what he is doing well. We ended up taking our son out of montessori, although I loved it, he needed a place with more structure and unison of the kids. He is in first grade and doing well, but we still have challenges at times with his focus and energy in the classroom.

Good luck.

M.

It's a sad, sad day when a School for youngsters says they don't have the time and attention for one. And as far as interupting the other "groups" of kids, well it's not like these kids are doing a chemical experiment or something. Gosh - they are only 4 years old. Immaginative play and socialization should be at the HEART of early development.

I haven't read any of the other posts , but I believe there are a few issues here.

One is the school. Montesorri claims they give children freedom to truly explore, but in actuality, they give them freedom only within certain perameters-thier perameters. Immagination and thinking-outside-the-box is not just discouraged it's downright shut down. If the child uses the equipment or toy differently than they expect - the child is RE-DIRECTED. How fustrated would you be as a 4 yr old boy if you wanted to use a car as a spaceship and the "teachers" kept removing it from your hand and telling you that you had to use it on the track? Or you wanted to use building blocks to create a corral for your immaginative horse and they kept telling you that you had to stack them ( been there, done that-boring), Or if you wanted to learn how to interact with other humans (socialization is one of the key points that proponents for the compulsory school system always stand on) and the place was kept as quiet as a library?(appropriate for older children doing textbook work - but why babies?) Any intelligent and socially energenic young child would get BORED quite quickly. And that is most likely were the acting up is coming from.

Boys, more than girls, have a lot of energy and need to MOVE and be spontaneous.It is the way God designed them. Montesoori is constricting, stiffeling and suffocating. It does not breed a mind that wants to create and explore, it develops a mind that will CONFORM. The fact that so many other parents with intelligent, active boys have left is a testament that your son shouldn't be there either.

Have you considered homeschooling?

Ps..My husband was one of those children who always got in trouble for his antics. He was bored!!! If he were in the school system of today, they would have labeled him ADD and would have given him the 'ritalin labotomy.' He had his IQ tested and it was found to be extremely high - genius category.