Seeking Advise for Sleep Issues

I am reading the Healthy Sleep Habits...book. One thing it continually says - sleep is controlled by the brain NOT the stomach. Read the book!! :)

MY DAUGHTER IS 8 1/2 MONTHS OLD AND ABOUT A MONTH AGO GETTING HER TO BED GOT HARDER....SHE WOULD THROW A FIT WHEN I SAT DOWN WITH HER TO ROCK HER AND GIVE HER THE FINAL GOTTLE OF THE NIGHT. SHE WOULD SCREAM AND HIT ME, FINALLY ONE NIGHT I HAD ENOUGH AND SAID OK FINE....I WILL JUST PUT YOU DOWN TO BED. SHE ACTUALLY WENT TO BED EASIER WITHOUT THE BOTTLE AND ROCKING. SHE LAYED DOWN ROLLED OVER AND FEEL ASLEEP (SHE DOESN HAVE THE NIGHTS WHERE SHE CRIES BUT ITS USUALLY SHORT TERM AND SHE FALLS ASLEEP). I NOW VERY RARELY GIVE HER A BOTTLE BEFORE BED. I JUST MAKE SURE TO GIVE HER, HER BABY FOOD LATER IN THE NIGHT. HAVE YOU TRIED GIVING YOUR BABY BABY FOOD? MY DAUGHTER IS ON 1 JAR IN THE MORNING AND 2 JARS AT NIGHT AND I FOUND SHE SLEEPS SO WELL!! AND IS STILL AT THE IDEAL WEIGHT (SHE HASNT GAINED TOO MUCH WEIGHT!)

MY MOTHER IN LAW STILL INSISTS WHEN SHE HAS HER THAT SHE WILL ONLY ROCK MY DAUGHTER TO SLEEP AND WILL NOT JUST PUT HER DOWN....SOME DAYS IT TAKES HER OVER AN HOUR TO GET HER TO SLEEP...WHERE AS FOR ME IT TAKES LESS THEN 5 MINUTES.

ANYWAY THIS IS JUST WHAT WORKED FOR ME. ITS HARD TO SAY BECAUSE EVERY BABY IS DIFFERENT. HAVE YOU TRIED TALKING TO HER DOCTOR?

WELL GOOD LUCK AND I HOPE THINGS GET BETTER!!!

Ok L.-
I've messaged other moms about this before. Don't give up hope, you will get her to sleep through the night. For your sanity and her safety, try this as soon as possible. At 6 months old, my son was still waking up twice a night. I was at my wits end. I got a book that I swear by to everyone that I come in contact with who’s baby is not sleeping well. It's called, "Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems" by Richard Ferber. And no he is not at all what "Meet the Fockers" portrays him to be. If you've read part of it, you haven't learned enough just yet. He has wonderful advice for all kinds of sleeping problems. You will have to deal with crying with these methods for a short while. And no worries, it is not cruel because when she cries she will still have mommy and daddy coming in to soothe her every so often and she will realize that mommy and daddy did not leave her.

Quick introduction - he teaches that all people have sleep associations (what a person associates with falling asleep), to include infants. Best example for adults to understand is let's say you woke up in the middle of the night and your pillow was missing. What would you do? Start looking for your pillow until A. you found it and went back to sleep, B. you found something to substitute as a pillow, or C. you learned to fall asleep without it. If you never found your pillow again, you would still be able to teach yourself to fall asleep without one. Babies are the same. Though we can develop ideal and non-ideal sleep associations. IDEAL: favorite blanket, favorite stuffed animal (not recommended in children under 1 year due to link to SIDS but if you already use one and refuse to give it up, it is not a bad one), pacifiers in older children. NON-IDEAL: rocking, holding, nursing, bottles, pacifiers, mobiles, swings, TV noise, etc. So she has developed a sleep association - mommy or daddy's presence (whether it's rocking, holding, etc.). She is still completely capable of falling asleep without you around her 24/7. Also FYI, all of us wake up at some point in the middle of the night. We may not remember it but we do wake up. Usually we don't remember it because if everything is okay and our ideal sleep associations are in place, we will fall back asleep. So she will still wake up in the middle of the night, but will fall back asleep if her sleep associations are just as she remembers them. So when you get her to sleep through the night, don't freak out if she wakes up one night wimpering or crying. She will likely fall back asleep in either a few seconds or minutes. If not, then something else has probably woken her up.

Here's what you do. Do your same bedtime routine, give her hugs or kisses or whatever you do to put her to bed, place her in her crib, turn off the lights, and leave. If she cries, let her cry for five minutes (use a watch). If she's still crying at 5 minutes, go into her room & soothe her with talking - do not pick her up, do not rock her, do not turn on a mobile. Talk to her and soothe her for no more than one or two minutes just to reassure her that you have not left her for forever and then leave. This next time you stay out of her room for 10 minutes. Then if she's crying still at ten minutes, you will do the same thing - go back in, soothe her, and leave. Then you wait 15 min and do the same. Your maximum time is 20 minutes. Keep doing this – the first night is the worst – she may or may not be up for a good portion of the night – my son was up for about an 1 hour and a half but his bed time was 9pm. Then on the second night, you will start out at 10 minutes. For each subsequent wake-up you will add 5 minutes to your wait, your max is still 20. Then on the third night you start out at 15 and the next night you start out at 20. By the third to fifth night, you should have her sleeping through the night, however, Dr. Ferber guarantees the longest it will take is a week (I think). IT WORKS! Something I must say though is if you feed her at night, that also is a sleep association. At 3 months old, infants are fully capable of sleeping through the night without waking up to eat. My son's sleep association was a bottle. He was eating twice a night. So if you are feeding her too, you have to wean that as well. If you need advice on that too, please let me know and I will be happy to tell you the methodology Ferber uses for that – it is still integrated in with the method I just told you about. And despite this, it only took me 3 days to get him sleeping through the night. Good luck.

RECENT ADDITION:
A few moms requested that I respond with the methodology Ferber advises to wean children from feedings at night. I'll say again, children are physiologically, mentally, emotionally, and developmentally capable of sleeping through the night at three months old so long as they were a normal newborn and do not have any syndromes, disorders, or other medical problems that may hinder this ability. First I'll talk about Ferber's methods & then what I did with my son.

Ferber says first you must "progressively (decrease) the amount of milk or juice" the infant takes when they are falling asleep. "It is not reasonable to stop suddenly". They might still feel hunger the first two or three nights because their body is so used to eating at night but they will learn to compensate by eating more throughout the day. Thus all you are doing is changing your child's feeding schedule. He states that depending on what the parent is comfortable with, they can either wean the feeding amounts first and then work on getting the child to sleep through the night OR do both at once. He has a chart that can be advanced or slowed down by as much as the parent desires or can tweak it to accomodate the amount your child takes.

Day 1 --- 7 ounces or 7 minutes nursing --- 2 hours minimum between feedings
Day 2 --- 6 ounces or 6 minutes nursing --- 2.5 hours minimum between feedings
Day 3 --- 5 ounces or 5 minutes nursing --- 3 hours minimum between feedings
Day 4 --- 4 ounces or 4 minutes nursing --- 3.5 hours minimum between feedings
Day 5 --- 3 ounces or 3 minutes nursing --- 4 hours minimum between feedings
Day 6 --- 2 ounces or 2 minutes nursing --- 4.5 hours minimum between feedings
Day 7 --- 1 ounces or 1 minute nursing --- 5 hours minimum between feedings

Now remember nursing babies tend to eat more often. Also you can make it quicker or longer if you want. The methodology with weaning feedings is similar to the sleep methodology I wrote about in the previous message. If your baby wakes up before he is due for the next feeding, do not go in their and feed him until you have come down to the very last minute.

If you are weaning the feedings first and then working on sleeping through the night, then you would utilize all of your usual soothing methods that you have been using. If you rock, then rock. If you sing, then sing. If you use a mobile, continue using it. You will respond to her cries just as quickly as you used to. The only thing you will be changing is the volume you are giving her with her feedings. I caution not to introduce new soothing methods because then you will be creating more sleep associations that you may have to eliminate later.

Now if you want to wean them from feedings and at the same time get them to sleep through the night, then you will NOT utilize any non-ideal sleep associations that I listed in the previous message. In this case, you will be weaning the volume that your child is eating and putting an end to sleep associations that negate the goal. So you will follow the chart above or whatever timeline you think would be appropriate for your child. You absolutely will not feed your child until the specified time. And soothe your child with the methodology mentioned in the previous message (i.e. do not pick the child up, do not rock, do not use a mobile, etc,). If it is too tough to do both at the same time, then by all means don't. Though some families have said it was less stressful to their child to not drag it out for a week or two. In some children it's even more upsetting to wean slowly then to just make it quick.

So my experience: I have stated that it took my son 3 days but in actuality it was 5 because I weaned for two days. On the first night, I fed my son his usual 6pm feeding of 6 ounces and put him to bed at 8 or 9pm. He was up at 1am and I only gave him 4 oz. When he woke up again at 5am, my husband went in and screwed it all up and gave him 6 oz. So he never had any trouble going to sleep because his belly was full. These times may not be accurate because I honestly don't remember, I just remember he was up two and sometimes three times a night. So the second night he had his usual 6pm feeding, then when he woke up, he got 3 oz and fell asleep. And when he awoke again he only got 1 ounce. He continued crying and at this time I introduced the waiting 5 minutes, going in and comforting, then 10 minutes, etc., etc. Though he cried all the way up until his usual wake up time. So we got up and started our morning. The third night is when we implemented only the sleeping method. So after the fifth night he was sleeping through the night. The crying was hard to hear but I knew that I was creating a schedule and a routine that would be best for him. That and I was going crazy from not getting any sleep.

Now despite the highlights of the Ferber method I have told you, I still strongly recommend that you go out and get the book. Dr. Ferber has many different clinical examples of families he has helped and you might find a situation that is very similar to yours and it might work better for your family. He also has charts of typical sleeping schedules according to age as well as information and advice on sleeping disorders, which my son has (confusional arousals/night terrors). I am by no means an expert but this man is.

Hi L.,
Well I had a problem with sleeping with my son it was a while back now and we are somewhat over it. So I understand the whole issue about trying to le them self soothe my husband and i stood outside the door waiting for the cops to come and see if we were doing something to our child couse he was crying for so long. That I do not believe is the answer. Something to try that seemed to work out for us. 1. lessen the nap times in the afternoons and throughout the day. 2. Look into if possible switching rooms that she sleeps in. (that seemed to work for us, although we did have a spare room to try this). Give the rice at night and nothing else but warm water to drink. Baths never worked but the rice seemed to help out as it was more filling than formula or breast feeding. Hope that is somewhat of a help for you.
J.

I know you said you've read sleep books before and now don't have the time to read books, but thought I'd suggest one that was a life-saver for me with ALL THREE of my kids: "Healthy sleep habits, happy child" by Dr. Mark Weisbluth. The book is divided into sections by age and situation so it makes it easier/quicker to find the section/solution relevent to you and your child. I highly recommend it!

Hi L.,
I, too, had major sleep issues with my first child. He didn't sleep thru the night till he was eight months old! My husband made me do the "Ferber" method- which is letting them cry it out, but checking on them every five, 10, 15 minutes. I didn't follow the book completely- I only did it till 15 minutes. Honestly, it took a couple of days without sleep- but it worked! I truly suggest trying it. Good luck!
H.

There is no question that sleeping issues can be a heated subject, with many different points of views. From what I can tell it brakes down to two beliefs...one that is called Attachment Parenting. This is where the child and parent co-sleep, the baby is rocked to sleep on the bottle or with breast-feeding, and typically the child is always with mom and not cared for by other family members very often. The other is Scheduling. This is where mom gently helps her infant fall into a sleep pattern that is predictable, the child is put down for naps in their crib alone without a bottle and is allowed to learn to fall alseep on their own. I personally did a schedule. My babies both naturally fell into a three hour schedule. I would feed them immediately following their naps, burp them and play with them, trying to keep them awake for at least an hour and half, including feeding time. During that time I would put then in their playpin to play, look at a mobil or toys for about 20 minutes, or until they needed me. They learned how to play and entertain themselves very early on. There would lots of mom and baby playtime too. Then I put them in their crib and they would sleep an hour and a half and the scheudule would start all over again. If they did cry when I left them alone in their crib it was always less than 5 mi utes because they were infants. It doesn't take long for an infant to get tired. Gradually they would move to a four hour schedule, then five, and so on. By eight months they would have two one and a half hour naps a day. Usually a morning nap at 9:30 or so and an afternoon nap at 2:30 or so. Both slept at least 6 hours a night by six weeks old. Both of my kids are very well adjusted, easily went to preschool, and kindergarten and love to have some alone time in their bedrooms to play, create and imagine. I am also very close to both of them. We enjoy ou time together because even to this day they sleep well, eat well and respond well to school, which is a scheduled daily routine. I rarely saw trantrums from my kids or any major behavioral issues because we established healthly boundaries early. They didn't learn to cry and scream for food or time with me because they automatically got what they when they needed it.

Every parent is different and all have different experiences. Generally speaking, out of all the moms that I have seen who have done co-sleeping and/or taught their child to fall asleep at the bottle or breast, have had a difficult time with sleep issues. Again, this is not everyone, only the ones I have observed. These children quickly learn that they can't sleep on their own so they wake up as soon as mom or dad leaves the room or the breast/bottle is taken away. These children also have a very difficult time be left at a sitters or with other family members, even dad, because they are always with mom from day one. Sleeping, eating, playing, mom is always there so they don't really know how to function for even a moment without mom.

I guess what I am saying is that if you did co-sleeping and/or allowed your child to fall asleep at the bottle, it could be that you've taught your child that she can't sleep without it on her own. The only answer to that would be to keep letting her cry it out to teach her new habits or continue what you are already doing, soothing her whenever she wakes up. Both are difficult and can be very taxing on both of you.

If she is waking up crying it could be that she isn't digesting properly. Many children have acid reflux that goes unnoticed by pediatricians because they say your baby has collic. If she's falling asleep at the bottle/breast she may not be digesting well, after all, if we as adults eat right before sleeping we don't have proper digestion so why would a small infant? If she burps immediately after you pick her up from sleeping that can be a sign that she didn't digest well and that it's waking her up.

These are just my personal experiences. What's right for me isn't right for everyone so use your best judgement for you and your family.

This is just a sympathy response. I am in the same boat and cannot stand to let my son cry it out. Let me know what you do.

I have no advise really, my son only slept for a long period of time if I was holding back when he was that age, I was just wondering if you think maybe she could be hungry I think you said you are doing breast and cereal, right? have you tried formula bottle before bed? not always our 1st choice but i remember those days of pure exhaustion! Good luck.
I belive at around 8-10 months my husband finally forced/strongly encouraged me to let him cry it out suprisingly he only cried for I think about 10 minutes the 1st night. I have to say it was the best thing for our family, I had before then spent HOURS rocking/walking/humming/swaying/singing trying to get him to sleep and he too would wake as soon as I put him down. he always woke up during the night but at least he started the night in his own bed, till later then he was in our room for a long while. I wouldn't say its normal but it does happen to others.

This may seem simple, but it worked for me. My first daughter started sleeping through the night at 4 months and then started waking up every couple of hours again at 6 months. Her main problem was excessive gas. Occasionally, she would wake up with a wet diaper (she couldn't go 5 minutes with a wet bottom), but usually, it was just gas. We gave her some gas drops, burped her, and she went back to sleep. We figured that she really wanted to sleep and was crying because she couldn't. Occasionally, the sleep problem was caused by eczema and finding the right body wash and lotion helped a lot.

My second daughter also had sleeping problems, but for her, it was gas and constipation. We tried suppositories, but found that a ball syringe filled with warm water worked better (Please wash after use and do not use for anything else!). Once she had a BM, the pain was relieved and she was able to go to sleep.

Once we figured out what the main problems were, we were able to take care of them before they became problems. Now, both of my girls, who are now 1 and 3 both sleep in big-girl beds in the same room and stay aslep all night long except for the occasional wet bed.

I hope some of this helps you.

Hi my son is almost 1 and he still does not sleep through the night. I also breast fed and I recently switched to formula which really seems to help. He will still wake up once or twice a night but only for a quick five minute feeding. I am currently trying to adjust how much he eats during the day so he will stop waking up. I can completly understand your frustration. One book I read said you should sit with him/her until they fall asleep and every three days put your chair closer to the door. This did not work for me Asher (my son) kept standing up and reaching for me. It was not until I completly left that he finally feel asleep on his own. He cried for about 15 minutes but it beat the hour to hour and a half of trying to rock or sooth him to sleep. Good luck I recommend trying one method and sticking with it for a week or so before giving up on it.

L.,
I feel your pain...and your frustration, sleep deprivation, etc. My daughter was very similar. I read Health Sleep Habits Happy Child and a browsed a few others. I took bits and pieces from them and this is what I did. I was very resistant to letting my baby cry it out. I think I started at about the same age because what I was doing wasn't working. I decided to start at night not at the naps because that was a longer sleep period. I remember nursing her to sleep and deciding that it was ok for the time being...small steps. I also remember her waking as soon as I put her down. I don't remember the timing of those, though...too sleep deprived myself at the time, I guess. I would put her down at night and let her cry 5 mins before I checked on her. WHen I checked on her, I would just pat her, make sure she had her pacifier, say something very simple, like, "Go to sleep" and leave. I checked every 5 mins for a while, then eventually 10 then 15, etc. In the beginning, I would do this for about 2 hrs, before I gave up. As she got used to it, I would go longer and longer. I also, eventually, started letting her have a blanket in bed ( and only in bed). Next, I tackled having her stay asleep...doing the same thing if she woke. I would only change her if she pooped, also. Naps were last. I put her down 30 mins earlier than her regular nap time and did the same. For naps, I would only let her cry for an hour total...I read that in one of the books. Then I would just wait for the next nap time and put her down 30 mins earlier and do it again. The ideal bed time is between 630 and 8, I believe, so I also moved her bedtime earlier by 20 mins (their sleep cycle is 20 mins) at a time each week.
This was my way of teaching my daughter to sleep. Some are more aggressive. I was kind of a wuss about it, so I went more slowly. I see now that many babies do need to learn to put themselves to sleep. It seems like that should be instinctual, but appearantly not. My daughter is 16 months old, takes a 2 hr nap and sleeps from 730p to 730a. Of course, then there is teething, colds, etc to wake her, but getting her back to sleep is so much easier. I hope this helps.

Hi L.. I feel your pain! Your situation sounds somewhat similar to ours. Our son didn't sleep through the night really until about 1 year. Before that he did some nights, then we'd go out of town and he'd be back to fighting sleep. We were strongly against cry-it-out, but tried it around 6 months. It was a disaster, purple face, throwing up and traumitized for quite a while that night. We tried it again a few months later. He didn't get as hysterical and it ended up taking 3 hours crying the first night, about 1.5 the next night and a few minutes the third night. Like I said, we'd go out of town and mess him up and we'd have to do that again.

He is now 16 months and I'd say a pretty good sleeper. If he wakes during the night he puts himself back to sleep. We have the Fisher Price Ocean Wonders Aquarium on his crib and he just hits the music button and falls back to sleep.

We also adopted a bedtime routine. We start with a bath, which he loves. Do something that your daughter loves that will help her wind down, maybe a bath and book...something quiet. Then we go to the kitchen and have yogurt, you could do a bottle. Then he brushes his teeth and gets a drink of water. Then I say 'Lets go find blankie!' and he goes 'Hmmmmm...' and we look for his blankie. (This is a little security blankie, if you do this get two, one to wash, one to use or an extra in case one gets lost.) Once he gets a hold of his blankie the eyes automatically start drooping. This is from a little boy who would fight bedtime to the death! We go in his room and turn on his musical aquarium thing which plays for 10 minutes and I rock him during this time. At the end of the music I put him down whether he is asleep or not and a few minutes later he is sound asleep! It sounds like a lot, but a routine really does work (at least for him). Try putting together a routine tailored for your daughter and see what happens.

I hope I've helped a little. Good luck and hang in there. Some kiddos fight it more than others. All of our friends had babies that were sleeping through the night in a couple of months, we thought we were doing something wrong. She just loves life and doesn't want to miss a minute of it!

M.