I was at my wit's end over the weekend with DD and her extreme "leadership" and how it creates drama with the neighborhood kids, so I emailed her school guidance counselor just to get some feedback. She wound up talking with DD a little bit yesterday and said DD really opened up to her about all the neighborhood stuff. It seems like DD is really struggling with dealing with the different personalities in the neighborhood and how she fits in, the things that she winds up doing that make all the kids turn on her. The counselor had a lot of positive things to say about DD like about how perceptive she is, mature for her age, caring, smart but she does feel she is very critical of other kids and thinks that it contributing to all this mess.
The good thing is that they don't see any of these issues in school. The counselor said she observed DD on the playground and she did fine, so that made me feel good. Her teacher has had no issues and last year in kindergarten everything was fine as well.
The counselor feels DD would really benefit from talking with a therapist for about 6-8 weeks to get some tools to help her out in these situations and help her deal better with being around others/not being so critical, etc.
I feel like crying though :( I feel like I've somehow failed DD for it to get to the point of my 7 year old needing a therapist. But I truly am at a loss as to how to help her because I feel like it goes in one ear, out the other and then the next day it's the same drama all over again. I know I could just tell her to not socialize with the neighborhood kids but a) she is very much an extrovert so it's like a moth to the flame when she sees them all outside playing and b) she's going to encounter people in her life that she doesn't like or has a hard time getting along with so I feel like forbidding her to not play with them probably isnt' the best solution either.
I would love to hear from others who have been in a similar situation.
Wow! Thanks everyone for the great responses and support! I completely agree -- it's about my daughter and NOT about me. I definitely have been suckered into the "mom guilt" over the past year or so and it consumes me sometimes.
I am definitely going to get her started with a therapist. My teenaged step-daughter has been seeing a therapist since the summer and I already contacted her to see if she works with younger kids as well. I agree that having DD hear it from someone else and someone specialized in this area will help. I also think that helping her now while she's still so young will hopefully help in future situations that can become harder.
To answer some questions: DD is in Girl Scouts and does an after school art class 1 day/week, both of which she enjoys and does well in socially. Last year in kindergarten she seemed to get along with most kids in her class and we would occasionally do playdates with other girls in her class. We also get together frequently with family friends who have kids and she plays fine with all of them.
The problem I feel with the neighborhood group is all the freedom some of these kids are given. The parents just let them go, with no supervision and it doesn't seem like the parents teach some of these kids good manners either for when they're at other people's houses. There's also one little girl in particular who is fairly manipulative and does a lot of things to get attention and it works with the other 2 girls in the group, who are younger than she is. They follow this little girl around like puppy dogs. But because the little girl isn't as intense in her emotions as DD, she isn't seen as the problem, but she does other things like crying when she isn't getting attention or she loves changing her dresses throughout the day on the weekends...she probably goes through 4-5 dresses everyday on the weekends and she'll waltz around the neighborhood in her princess dresses with the other girls walking behind her. But not my DD...she's leading the way! So there's probably also some competition feelings going on as well.
Thanks again everyone!
You would only fail DD if you ignored her behavior. So now you've talked to the school, the school has talked to DD and I would ask for recommendations for DD's care. Remember, she didn't say that DD was irrevocably broken. She said DD could use some temporary help that she could not provide. I have a somewhat difficult daughter myself and some days are so hard...but I keep trying because even a little improvement is improvement.
I agree with JC. I know that Counseling can be good for some folk, but is is not the answer for every issue in today's times.
As the school counselor, she should be doing classroom guidance lessons on friendship building.
Ask her to do that as ALL children can benefit from that.
Don't feel like a failure. Nobody is an expert at everything, and when I can't fix something myself, I go and hire an expert to help me. If I get my truck stuck in the mud, I know no amount of my pushing or pulling that truck will get it out, so I call a tow-truck to pull it out. There's no shame in that. As a matter of fact, it's the wisest thing you could do.
You didn't fail as a mom. Sometimes a mom's job includes taking your kid to a therapist and good for you for doing it!!
I can understand where you are coming from. I felt this way when one of my kids needed early intervention services for speech (my thoughts went like this: but I read to him every day, and I interact with him, and I talk to him, what more could a therapist do that I can't? I'm trying hard, why isn't it enough?) .
But please please try to convince yourself that this is not about you. This is about doing the best thing for your daughter. And sometimes that needs someone with a little more objectivity to see what's going on and giving the help.
Sometimes we all encounter parenting issues we need help with (that's often why we're here, right?). This is just another way of getting help. More help is a good thing!
There is still such a stigma associated with therapy, but really it's no different than going to the doctor.
You have a problem you need help with, be it physical or social/emotional, you see a professional, that's all there is to it!
Good for you for being so on top of things with your daughter :-)
Try not to think of it as a negative thing. It can be very empowering and can teach her some coping skills. I would feel positive that you are doing all that you can to help her. It's kind of like a tutor for academics. Sometimes you need to hire someone else, if your kids have a hard time learning from you. Sometimes things are beyond us and we haven't had the experiences to know how to teach them something. It's so great to be able to lean on counselors, therapists, tutors, teachers, etc. Often a therapist will allow parents to sit in on the meetings and you can learn the tools to help her cope day to day.
The counselor recommended 6-8 weeks of therapy.
Big deal!
It's not like she thinks your kid needs years of therapy.
She just needs a little help figuring out a particular social situation.
Even speech therapy would be for longer than 6-8 weeks.
If this is the only help she ever needs with anything - then you are way ahead of the game!
Don't feel like you've failed her in any way!
If anything - you should feel proud that you saw a need to seek out some help and talked to the counselor about it.
It beats sitting back and letting your kid flounder though it on her own with no guidance.
It is only the school counselor's opinion. You know your child best. I also know some people believe everyone and I mean everyone can benefit from counseling. This may be her view too.
Great counselors are fabulous but poor ones can make a bad situation worse. I would make sure your views are inline with anyone you may send your daughter too.
STOP right now and do not look at yourself as a failure because you are not a failure.
This is not about you and your feelings, it is about your daughter and her personality. You did not create her personality but you can help her through therapy if needed to figure out how to deal with her personality.
Sometimes if you see a counselor or professional, they can look at what is going on through a different window because they are not "in" the picture. I look at them as looking objectively at an issue and helping both parties figure things out.
Don't feel bad if a counselor was suggested. Maybe her guidance counselor picked up on something you don't see because you are her mom.
Best wishes to you and I hope everything works out. Also, I like having a daughter who is strong willed and not afraid to speak up. Don't squash her personality traits, just fine tune them!
First, the counselor is suggesting six to eight weeks, not a lifetime of hard-core therapy. The counselor is talking about giving your daughter some coping tools and scripts to help her relate better to other kids. This sounds fantastic, frankly. These are things the school counselor might be able to work on with your child --did you ask why the counselor is recommending a therapist or outside counselor? Either way, I would take up the idea and go with it.
You are seeing this as how you, yourself, have "somehow failed DD for it to get to the point of her needing a therapist." Mom, please try to step back and distance yourself from your own emotions here -- this is not about you or how you have raised her; it's about her fundamental personality, which you don't "raise" a child into. A professional therapist who specializes in working with kids this age -- and it must be one who specializes in younger kids! -- will not judge you, or your child, but will give her tools to cope. You surely went out and got her all the tools she needed to start the school year, right? Every pencil and notebook? Coping skills and social skills are tools too -- ways to redirect her thinking, things to say to others, but they're tools you can't give her right now because (1) you're not a therapist and (2) you're her mom, and she is so close to you that she likely won't listen to you even if you did give her these tools.
So please -- work hard on being objective and unemotional, as much as you can. Remember, two months or so of work now, at the start of first grade, beats the heck out of many months or years of drama and then therapy later on.
One thing: If all the drama is around neighborhood kids, and there is no similar drama at school: Heck, she needs to be playing with school friends and getting involved in extracurriculars at school -- ramp back the contact with the neighborhood kids. Please take it from a parent of an older kid: The whole thing of playing all the time with neighborhood kids will end anyway as she gets involved with friends at school and in her activities. (I can't access the full site right now, but did you post recently about your child's issues in "leading" the neighbor kids? Someone did and at the time I replied that the child needed to stop seeing so much of those kids!)
You note that her extroversion means she's going to want to play with those kids when she spots them outside, but if she is busy with homework and then with other activities, she won't have as much time. I'm not saying eliminate all neighborhood play but reduce it. And instead of letting her run with the pack as they play outside, do more of inviting specific neighbor (and school friend) kids, in much smaller groups -- does she do better one on one? Then ask the mom of one kid she likes in the neighborhood if her kid can come over to do a specific activity, as opposed to tossing a whole gang of kids outside to "just go play." Just go play is dandy but doesn't work for your kid at this time. So, proactively do more one on one play at home, or take your child and the one other kid to a park where they won't see the whole gang roaming outside the windows. Yes, let her play outside as usual sometimes, but limit it more. You, not she, needs to drive this for now.
Does your daughter have activities such as Girl Scouts, or a dance or art class, or a sport, or a church youth group etc.? Does she do fine in those settings, which are neither school nor unstructured run-around-the-neighborhood things? I think those "third place" activities are possibly your best indication of whether her "leadership" is a function of her relationship just with the specific neighborhood group, or if she has issues that do need outside help.
Hugs-
Sometimes we have a hard time hearing advice from certain people. The same advice delivered by someone else can be that much more palatable. -i.e. My hubs, MIL, and myself on a car trip. MIL asks a question. Hubs gives answer A. MIL asks follow up questions which suggest that she really didn't get/ hear what hubs had to say. Hubs says, FB, want to give it a try??? I offer answer A. MIL gets it and agrees.
I say let her have the therapy, empower her to figure out how to handle her play relationships. See if the therapist can offer you any insight later on how to better communicate advice/ guidance to your kid.
Best,
F. B.
Sometimes kids don't see their parent in a certain role and no matter what they say it doesn't stick. If an authority person tells them the exact same thing, word for word, they will have that light bulb moment and go AH HA!
Sad as it is, sometimes our kids need to hear ideas from other people. Find out if the school counselors will do this for you. Our elementary school did. They took kiddo for about 30 minutes a couple of times per week and worked on skills with her. She is doing so much better handling all the kids that would follow her around wanting her to play with them and stop what she was doing.
My GD met with the school therapist for almost 2 years. It was great for her. Her problem was accepting personal responsibility. The counseling really helped.
As a parent, we take on EVERYTHING that goes on with our kids. We internalize and personalize. We should not do that. Our children are their own people. We can teach them and guide them but the ultimate decision on what they do is theirs. Kids often listen to a third party more willingly than their own parents. To all kids, their parents are not really very smart and they really don't understand because most kids have a really hard time imagining their parents ever being kids themselves.
I think you will be very happy with the end result.
I think this could be good on so many levels. I talk to counselors when I need an unbiased opinion on life, or help handling something, like relationships. We are quick to suggest family and marital counseling, so why not offer that to your daughter for help if she needs it? It's completely fine...nothing wrong with wanting to talk it out.
I found out yesterday my daughter missed one assignment in her reading class and it dropped her grade to a letter she has never seen before, and that will show on her interim report. She told her PE teacher, who I have been friends with longer than I have known my husband....I'm thankful my daughter (and sons) have people they can go to with issues and how to handle them.
I'd let her go talk to someone who can help her figure these things out. Sometimes we can't do it all, and role playing doesn't always work. Better to help her figure it out now than have her in high school and miserable. (Take this from the bossy girl who had trouble in high shcool until I figured out things didn't always have to be my way.)
After your SWH I suggest that the neigborhood difficulty may be more about the group dynamics than your daughter's bossiness. I suggest she is trying to lead because the group is not getting along: that this is an unhealthy group situation. I would structure the play more. She can play for an hour. She can have one child come home with her to play. She definitely has to come in when there is a squabble. Not because she's not getting along but because the group is not getting along.
Please know you've not failed your daughter. I suggest that the therapy is not so much for emotional issues as it is for teaching skills. A child's therapist has learned ways to help children learn in ways that you as a parent don't.
You actually are showing that you're a good parent by noticing she has difficulty and asking for help. Following up on the counselor's suggestion is what a good parent does.
I suggest that your feelings are the result of our misperceptions of therapy. Therapy and counseling are the same thing. Their titles may be different because they've had different combinations of training. In reality, a therapist often does the same work as a counselor. You asked for help from the school counselor. Asking for help from a therapist is the same thing.
I suggest the counselor is suggesting a therapist because she is unable to do ongoing counseling of the nature most helpful for your daughter. A school counselor helps with school related problems. Your daughter has difficulty in her neighborhood.
As to the difficulty with neighborhood children I suggest that when there are squabbles you have your daughter stay inside for an hour or two. This will give her an incentive to think of a different way to play. Don't try to help her until she's no longer emotionally involved with what happened. Talk about it only when she is able to hear you and shows that she understands.
Most importantly do not let her resume play until she's no longer invested in doing it her way. You could say something like "playing right now isn't working. I want you to stay in the house for awhile." Once she stops asking to go out and is no longer upset have a brief conversation about how you expect her to treat the other children. Tell her to come back in if there is a squabble. Then keep her in again.
I suggest that having to stop playing she has an opportunity to think about what happened and why there was a problem. You can guide her thinking but only when she wants to know how to make this better.
My parents stopped all play when there was a squabble. I did the same with my daughter. My Moms saying was "if you, meaning all the kids, can't play nice then you cannot play." We would talk later only when I, as a child, or my daughter asked to talk. We left figuring out how to get along in that particular situation their responsibility. We had talks about getting along at other times.
I was a playground volunteer for several years. I suggest that your daughter may get along better because the payground supervisor tells children to get along or go play with someone else. And there are lots of someone elses to play with. We do briefly help the children work it out by talking to both/all of them at the same time. Recess is short so it's best to be brief.
Perhaps your daughter has learned to move on at school to play with children more compatible. She doesn't get attention for trying to control things (be bossy?). Of course it helps to have a broader choice in playmates.
My mother told me and I told my daughter to not play with the kids with whom I/she had difficulty. I enforced this by separating them when I notice trouble begin. I suggest you do not have to deal repeatedly with neighborhood issues. Stop the play. I would give her a second chance. If that didn't work, no more play that day.
I suggest this might be a suggestion that a counselor would make to deal with a particular incident. She would also teach your daughter ways to be more successful in her interactions. The counselor will talk with both of you. Seeing her is to learn notvto correct a failing.
1) Glad to see the positive responses and that you feel better.
2) You are not a failure. You and/or your daughter haven't done anything wrong.
3) The only issue is that your child is so young and still learning how to handle all these personalities conflicts and she needs some support/guidance. (So does my 10-year-old daughter. This issue is pretty typical.) THAT's IT! She's not yanking friends by the hair and she's not a terror. She's OK. She just needs some help navigating what is going on.
4) Even we adults, here on Mamapedia, come to ask questions on how to handle X or Y.
5) "Therapist" is a loaded word and that's why you had a hard time with it. She doesn't need help for personal problems per se, she just needs help navigating friendships. Different beast.
She needs someone who is good at peer issues/friends/conflict resolution. I guess they are called therapists! Or a good friend can help you with this as well.
Hugs. Really, this isn't about you, although I know that if feels that way when our kids need help.
Follow the advice of the guidance counselor and have her see someone. It's amazing how helpful a 3rd party can be in helping our kids learn skills they need to manage themselves. We have a family therapist (blended family, marital issues and my husband and 2 of our 4 kids have ADHD) and my oldest son has a separate therapist. They're a great resource - whenever we have a situation that's out of the realm of our own experience or expertise, we can talk about it with someone else, have the kid who is struggling talk to the therapist and get some ideas, and things improve.
You already did the right thing in reaching out to the guidance counselor for help, now take it one step further and have her meet with someone so that it doesn't snowball into and ongoing issue for years and years and years.
I am all for counseling! Mental health is just as important as physical health. You don't go to the pediatrician every day--and she won't go to a counselor every day forever. If a person gets a sore throat, you take them in to the doctor and get help. If a person's having mental health issues, you go to a counselor to get help.
If your daughter got strep, would you blame yourself for not making her wash her hands enough? Nope. It's not her fault. Same with mental health.
We were on the verge of taking my son. We moved last year (military) and he had a really hard time adjusting. We weren't looking for blame and we didn't fail him by making him move. But, we wanted to help him adjust to life.
I think the world would be a better place if MORE people were in counseling:) Maybe you're failing her if you don't put her in counseling.
