Sad and Frustrated

I agree that I've never heard anyone call their 3 year old by months before...he is 3 in one month...not 35 months old. He is not a baby but a pre-schooler, whether or not he's in pre-k.

All I can tell you is my kid would have had the bottom popped for that. He was running towards the parking lot and telling you no? What happens when he runs into a moving car next time? I know a lot of people are against spanking and that's fine, but this is an instance when I would think a lot of people would say something to get his attention was necessary.

You don't need to talk to him. He needs to understand who's boss. He's only 3 now...wait until he is a teen. Whatever way works for you because all kids are different, but you need to find a way to get him to respect you. And letting him say no, hitting, kicking, screaming, etc is only going to teach him that he's allowed to act that way.

I wouldn't just nix the park - I'd make him learn the correct behavior.

Maybe give him a 15 minute warning, then 10, then 5, then 2, then go. I give me kids multiple warnings so they know their time is nearing an end. They are almost 9, 7, and 5, but they know better than to give me a hard time about it. And they have since they were 2.

I can't help but think that he's acting out because of the new baby. My son ran off all the time when his sister was born.
His sister is now almost 3-1/2 and is a big fan of "no" and doing the opposite of my request. I think it's just the age.
I think you just need to be consistent and not accept the behavior. Lots of time outs. Good luck.

One thing I did with my kids was call them over to me, get on their level, look in their eyes, hold their hands and say "We have 2 minutes until we have to leave, would you rather play nicely and obey mommy for 2 minutes or leave now?" If he reacts with a no, or in a negative manner, then leave immediately. You have a hold of their hands, so they can't run away at this point. I just had NO patience with my kids behaving like that, so I would try to head it off before it started. The very second it started, I cut off the activity. Didn't take too many times to get it through their heads.

Robin's answer made me laugh out loud because of the wording of it. While I get where she's coming from, I'll share a piece of advice my wonderful pediatrician told me when my son was very small: Never punish your children in a way that is ALSO punishing you. If YOU desperately want to get out of the house & go to the park also, don't use that as a punishment.

With that being said, I'm sure my advice won't jive with most of the other's on this site, but personally, I'd pop hit butt one good time. My son is 12 (150 months) & my daughter will be 11 (132 months) next week. Between both of them, I have probably delivered a total of 5 or 6 butt swats. It's effective if used when A. you're not losing your mind in anger, B. you need to get their attention immediately & C. it's not over-used. I never had to pop the same butt for the same thing more than once because it always shocked my kids enough for them to never commit whatever "crime" it was again.

This is likely not the advice you were looking for. Like I said, I realize this is no longer a popular way to serve out discipline, but for the relatively tiny number of times I ever used it, it absolutely worked.

*ETA* I was genuinely trying to be light-hearted by putting my kids' ages in months as I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that past about 18 months, so I certainly hope you're not insulted by that. Also, I'd just like to say that I agree with every single word InMy30's said, though it generally goes hand-in-hand with what I said, she said it a little bit better. ;)

Do you *punish* him for his poor choices in behavior? If there is never a consequence to the behavior, it will never change.

My daughter had the terrible 3s. We just had to be consistent with redirecting or *punishing* her. In our case, I would tell my daughter 'We are going to the park. I understand that you might not want to leave when I say it is time but if you choose to scream and fight about it we won't be going back to the park tomorrow (or Saturday or whatever).' And then I stuck with it. If she threw a fit she didn't go to the park the next day.

I also found telling her we are leaving soon...you can go down the big slide 3 more times worked a lot better than saying we are leaving in 5 minutes. She didn't understand 5 minutes but she knew what three more trips down the slide meant.

Good luck.

It is a hard time, and we've all been there. He is testing you something fierce and your response has to be calm and consistent, which it sounds like you are. At the park, pull him aside away from his friend and tell him one-on-one that he has 2 minutes more minutes to play and if he starts crying you will leave now. If he is good, he can have his 2 minutes. He may feel like he needs a little control over the situation, so giving him the "illusion" of control may help.

In this case, and other cases you butt heads with him, give him two options to choose from, both of which you approve ot.

Do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? Do you want to walk to the park or around the block? Do you want a PB&J or a ham sandwich? And on and on.

Your actions will speak louder than any words at this age. Tell him the consequence and follow through. Next time it's a nice park day tell him that you would be going to the park today, but because he throws a fit when we leave we will stay inside today. Next time you are at the park, you can say "do you want to stay home like last time?" He will know you are serious.

Good luck.

Check out Love and Logic if you already haven't. This age is about becoming a separate person - 3 years old even more than 2. Trying to reason with them when they're upset is a no win. You have to wait till later on that one. My son responds well to the choice thing - "do you want to leave now or in 15 minutes", etc. Also, if he's upset about leaving, I can tell him that we'll come back again. Following through reinforces that and it works out better the next time. Good luck.

We've all been there, I agree with Loving M, give choices and remember that children have no concept of time so try something like you can go down the slide one more time then we have to go. I use a timer (on my watch) alot for sharing toys, timeouts, ect that might alwso work. Don't worry you are doing fine just keep up your patiance

He's almost three. Drop the months. Drop the time outs. Your son will learn if you take charge. Get the book "Back to Basics Discipline" by Janet Campbell Matson and USE it. It is NOT the same as ALL The other Books. A new homeschooling friend of mine just started using it two weeks ago and her three year old is like a new kid. I told her about it when she frantically gasped that "Books like 321 Magic and Love and Logic and stuff SOOO don't work with my kid!!!"
I take my kids, 6, 4, and 2 1/2, with me everywhere. They would never get away with that for five minutes. I never have to yell or get mad. You DON'T have to live like this.

Other than over-reacting and being way too hard on yourself...nothing. Really, his boundary-testing is healthy, normal and totally age-appropriate. Are you just having a bad day today or do you normally feel this overwhelmed? If you find that you are this overwhelmed all the time, you may want to make sure you're getting enough support at home or can talk to someone. I felt like you when I was a single mom of a 3.5 year old. I was seriously convinced that I was raising a serial killer and took him to a psychologist who assured me that no, he was just fine and normal. Not an easy child, but not a serial killer in the making.

If you feel that his behavior is "more everything" than what you see in his peers (more difficult to transition, more energy, more stubborn, needs less sleep, cries longer, more angry etc.) then the book Raising Your Spirited Child may really speak to you. It was a total game changer for me and totally changed how I parented my oldest, who is now a charming, darling, quirky, funny 13-year-old who still drives me nuts but I love him just the way he is.

Give yourself a break...you're doing OK!

I'm not diagnosing your child, but when I read your post, it made me think of myself and the toddler years with my oldest who was just like this. Until I found out he had ADHD many years later, I all on my own came to realize that there were some places, people, things, and situations I had to avoid for his safety and my sanity, because of his temperament.

For some kids, books like Love and Logic work. For others it doesn't, because you may not be dealing with a discipline issue. There is a possibility he may not be acting out in defiance for the sake of defiance but may truly not be able to read cues from you that his behavior is unsafe.

With my son, I would plan very carefully where we'd have playdates, with who, etc. ahead of time to cut down on situations like this. You may have to limit playdates with certain kids to a fenced backyard until he's much older instead of the park. You may have to keep him strapped in a stroller when shopping or running errands and avoid events that are too stimulating or places that are too wide open or crowded. You may have to leave him with grandma or dad when it's time to grocery shop or only go out after naps because he needs them to be calm.

Bottomline, *you* may have to resolve to change how *you* react to his behavior and focus more on what activities and situations will be the most beneficial and enjoyable for the both of you, so that you can have more peace and control handling various situations. Even if it turns out he has something going on that is causing this behavior, I can assure you things DO get better.

When he is older and able to discern dangerous situations and get a better grasp of his feelings and emotions, you will be able to do more with him and he'll be better behaved. But right now, you may have to become more discerning and aware of how you and your son spend your time, with whom, and where so that you can be more at peace and avoid frustration. Whatever you do, avoid getting to wrapped up in the idea that this can be fixed with a discipline book. For some that works. For others it's a matter of changing how you the parent approach things and think about them. And sometimes it may even entail simple changes to how you do things everyday. No two parents have the same parenting experience as there are no two children who are the same. We have to give ourselves the freedom and versatility to adapt so that we can help our children as much as ourselves to be a happy family.

With that said, you're probably not doing anything wrong. Give yourself a break. Small kids are no easy task. Especially if you have an extra spirited child for whatever reason.

After making the mistake of listening to well-meaning family and friends, and constantly comparing my kids and my parenting style to those of my friends, I finally got smart and I read a book that helped me ALOT in dealing with his way of coping and behaving in the world. It is not a discipline book, nor a parenting book in the traditional sense, but it sure offers a whole heck of alot of common sense for parents of kids like ours.

Read "Raising your highly spirited child" and "Sleepless in America" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and any of her other fantastic books. Kurcinka also has a fantastic blog/website too. You'll be glad you did and will come away with some good coping and management skills and a new outlook at parenting.

See:

http://parentchildhelp.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-Spirited-Child-Rev/dp/...

Hope this helps.

Very normal behavior from a nearly 3 yo. They don't agree with what you are doing/saying so they do what they know best. You did everything right. He is at an age where he will be trying out different behaviors to see what works. It is a rough time for mom for sure! Hang in there, hang tough and know that next time you will be better prepared if he decides to do a repeat performance. Do you take him to the park again? Of course! Yes, you need to let him know that he can't go to the park today because he ran away from you. But tomorrow you can remind him that if he wants to go to the park it means listening to mommy. Loving M. is right, consistency from you is key. Trust me it will get better! And I know it's hard but try not to compare your child to your friend's. They are all different and just because hers was better behaved it doesn't mean she is a better parent. Different kids, different personalities, different temperaments, different behaviors. Not better/worse, just different!

have you tried telling him if he acts like that hes not going to the park anymore and he wont get to play with his friends at all if he cant act like a big boy when its time to leave

Your not doing anything wrong - thats what 3 year olds do. My son is about the same age, and he has fits like that regularly. I count 1, 2, 3, and if he does not come, I just pick him up under my arm like a sack of potatoes, thrashing like a wild thing, and wrangle him into his carseat. If he is still wild when we get home, I put him in his room until he is calm enough to talk. I tell him I love him and he needs to follow directions. Thats it - no lectures, no complicated systems of rewards/punishments, not even a timer involved.

Its absolutely miserable and embarrassing, but the next time I start counting, he comes. He'll do better for a while, and then test the waters again.

Just remember - EVERY child acts up. Thats part of their job, and what they need to do to grow up.

My just turned 3 year old son is like this too. When he acts like this I bring him straight home. Most of the times he is kicking and screaming on the way to the car and I have to carry him football style to the carseat. I always get a lot of dirty looks from parents by I really dont care. When we get home he gets a pop on the butt and then straight to time out. Afterwards, its no more park or outside time for the rest of the day or the next day depending on his behavior. I dont care if we're only at the park for 5 mins. The second he starts running wild and deliberately not listening to me.. (for example, my son loves to run in the woods when im telling to stay on the path when hiking)... funs over. period.

Terrible 3's are such a joy! - Not!
Hang in there!
You are not doing anything wrong.
My Mom's approach to sassing and mouthing off was washing our mouths out with a bar of Ivory soap and an occasional swat on the behind.
I never had to do that with my son, but there were a few times when it was so tempting.
You might want to cut back on the outings till he's a little more civilized.
Before you go anywhere - tell him what you expect from him 'When it's time to go - it's time to go! No fussing! I'll give you a 10 min warning, then I don't want any arguments about it.".
He will out grow this sooner or later.

One day I stumbled acroos the timer on my cell phone and I decided to set it when I said five more minutes. The first few times I did this the kids did not get it, but I continued doing it and leaving when the timer went off. Now I set the timer and when it goes off they do not argue about leaving. It is the best tool I have ever found because the kids can't argue with a timer. Not only that but it holds me accountable to get up and leave in five minutes as well. I used to say they had five minutes but then would never really watch the time. Next thing I know, especially when talking to a friend, 30 minutes has passed and the kids knew it had been way more than five minutes. Another thing I love is that my kids never ask to go down a slide just one more time.
You have NOT messed up as a parent at all! My oldest was 7 or 8 when I discovered the timer and she adjusted well. You know the problem now you just need to find a solution. I say give the timer thing a try at least five or six times and see if it helps. My youngest was around your sons age when I started, so he is old enough to understand. Just remember you have to get up and when the timer goes off or it will not work.
Best of luck to you!

You aren't doing anything wrong, except assuming that yoiu have "already messed up as a parent." When he does these things, don't do all this talking to him, he is way too young for you to expect him to understand reason.

If he disobeys you and runs away, immediately go get him, tell him "No!" take him home, and put him in his room for an hour. He will get the message.

Don't have long discussions, just immediate consequences. He can't "fight" with you if you don't engage. Pick him up, but him in his room. It's normal testing behavior for his age. Don't worry mom, he's normal and fine.

yes-don't take him to the park-he'll get the big picture

Oh, it sounds like terrible 2's but at 3. I think the terrible 2's start at age 3. You are doing nothing wrong at all. You could do time-outs but not really long ones. What I do is: in a stern voice, say if you don't stop I'm going to take away George(Curious George), IPad or Computer. Something that he likes. If he doesn't listen, I start counting and at 3 he gets another warning to take that something away and then at 5, he loses his privledge for up to a week. I don't use the 3-1/2, 3-3/4 stuff. My son is 12 but is special needs so mentally wise for some areas hes 3 so i have to take things he likes. time outs never worked for him.

Absolutely what LovingM said! Give two choices you are ok with and stick to them. And do it as often as possible in any situation. This way he gets some control, so when it comes to a time you need to make the decision you can say, "Don't I let you make a lot of decisions most of the time? I need to make this decision now. You have two more minutes to play and then we need to go." If he doesn't follow through and throws a tantrum like he did today, then he needs a time-out. Wait until he is calm. Don't even talk to him until you are calm. When we get angry (no matter if you are a child or adult) we are in an emotional state. We can say things we don't mean and make the situation worse. Give him and yourself to calm down and get into the thinking state. Say something like "I am so sad that you had such a tough time leaving the park today. We won't be able to go there anymore if you behave that way and won't listen to me." He will begin to see that he truly is in charge of his little world and his actions can have good or bad consequences. On the flipside, when he does a great job be sure to praise him for it. Say something like, "Thank you so much for listening to me while we were at the grocery store today. We got our errand done and now we can do (insert whatever)."
These are strategies from Jim Fay's Love and Logic series. I highly recommend you check into his books, especially Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood: Practical Parenting from Birth to Six Years. Awesome stuff. I have the books from when I was a teacher and now as a parent. I have also been to Jim Fay's teaching/parenting workshops. They are wonderful speakers and teach you all of these methods through role playing and such. Go to www.loveandlogic.com for more information. They have a great facebook page as well.
Don't beat yourself up over this. Kids will test the boundaries, but really yearn for them to be in place. These are some tried and true methods that will save your sanity and your relationship with your kids!

ETA: I just read your SWH. For the episode that happened at the park today, reminds me of a similar situation I had with my son when he was almost 3. We were in a parking lot. My daughter was in the stroller and my son was walking next to me when he decides to just take off toward the street. All I could do was chase him after him. I was livid, but thankful it was a relatively empty parking lot at the time. When we got home I told him how dangerous that was and that he was going to miss out on some privileges. He couldn't play in the backyard for awhile that day, no music or tv on. I took away the things that would create the most impact for him. It was a hard day for both of us, but one he has never forgotten. Now if we are going some place we talk about what it will look like and sound like. (walking, standing next to mom, maybe holding my hand if absolutely necessary, quiet voice, hands in pockets or by his sides, etc.) and of course I use the choices method a lot. Just yesterday we were in Hobby Lobby and he found three or four treasures he was sure he couldn't live without. I told him he could choose one or none. At first, he tried to negotiate more than that, but I just repeated it again. One or none. Finally, he did choose and put the others back. There wasn't any whining or standoff. It was pleasant. You will get there! Just check out all of the books suggested to you. Once you develop your personal arsenal of discipline strategies it will become much easier!

God Bless!
A.

We've all been there. Don't beat yourself up, you haven't "messed up" as a parent...you just need to get some discipline techniques that work. Don't resent him, he's just testing you which is what 3 year old's do. Also, don't compare him to your friend's son, kid's have different personalities.

I do the 1,2,3 because it works for my 3 year old. If he's not listening I'll say 1, then 2, and if I get to 3 it's time-out (2-3 min.) It didn't work at first, but once I got really consistent it did. He now knows that I'm not joking once I start counting. I've also heard that 1-2-3 Magic is a good book.

I agree with all the advice given. Just wanted to support by saying that my son was just like that- perfectly lovely, sweet, obedient little helper at 2, and then when he hit three he was testing me all the time. I would do something 'wrong'- like pick out the wrong shirt and he'd fly off the handle ("you're the worst mommy in the world!") I don't know if it was hormones, normal development or what, but he's back to lovely now at 4. My child also enjoys choices- do you want to go down the slide or play in the sand for your last 2 minutes? And something to look forward to- let's have some Goldfish in your carseat/ are we going to play Legos when we get home? I'm sure other moms would have let their kid stay for fear of the meltdown, but you handled it right. So I'm sure he, too, will learn it's pointless to throw the fit and return to lovely.

Many people say the 3's are more difficult than the 2's. While I didn't have the particular problem with my kids that your son is presenting you with, it may be that you need a break from taking him places if he cannot listen and tries to run away. It seems he's a little less than 3 (past the point of using months and half months to describe his age, just say he is almost 3), he is not mature enough to reason and be spoken to in the middle of a tantrum. I would, however, tell him next time BEFORE you go someplace, and then again when you give him the two minute warning, that if he runs away, hits, etc, that there will be a punishment when you get home. Tell him what it will be and follow through.

I agree with the timer approach. I find, as another posted below, the kids are waaay less resistant as they cannot argue with a timer! My 4 year old finds it vague when I say "in 5 minutes you can play with that toy" or "we are leaving in 5 minutes" but it goes a lot smoother if I say "We are leaving when the timer says Beep Beep Beep." You did give your child a warning, and I commend you for that. There have been a few times that I did not warn my youngest that we were about to leave, and YIKES, I have never seen her behave as badly as she did those times. I also think that it is that age. Last summer my daughter was 3.5 and she had mega meltdowns almost daily. I think we were maybe packing too many activities in, and she never got any alone time with me since school was out for the summer, plus she was just at that age. She would scream in her bedroom for hours sometimes. The good news is that she grew out of that stage, and it actually did not last long, although it was horrid while it did last.

You put him in the car and you sit in the parking lot with him in his seat for a time out. There was one day when DD wouldn't get in her seat, I couldn't make her bend and I didn't have much choice. So I just sat in the front and she sat in the back and I told her that this is where we were sitting til she did right and got in her seat. We weren't going back into the mall and we weren't going home. Just sat. No radio, either. Felt like forever, but in 5-10 minutes she was in her seat ready to go, quiet.

I'm sorry he's testing you and I'm sorry you are having a hard time, but you aren't the worst mom in the world for having a stubborn child.

Just yesterday, DD got a consequence for her actions and started screaming. She knows I give no audience to tantrums, but she came back to me, said I was very mean and told me how mad she was and then went back to her room. She's also 3.5 yrs old.

You might also start teaching him that time out happens anywhere. You will haul him from a playground or play area or whatever and make him sit or you will leave.

You might try having him earn more time. If he comes over to you when called, doesn't fuss and doesn't run away, he can earn 10 more minutes. When he leaves after that, tell him what a good job he did and that he might earn extra time again next time. If you chase him, then he loses 10 minutes (or something else). Maybe work this at home, too. If he comes to the table or stops his play or takes his bath, he earns something. If he is rotten, he loses something or goes in time out. I will ask "DD, do you want 5 more minutes?" and if she says yes, then she gets 5 minutes and then we go home.