Needing Advice from Other Parents... Please!!!

I agree with S.H. that this is a symptom of a greater problem. I don't think that taking Halloween away will solve anything, and it might make him resent you and act out more.

I would make an appointment with his doctor. Discuss the problem and they could possibly refer you to a child psychologist/counselor that could be of more help than his school. If this has really been going on for some time, I think you need to look beyond the school for some help for him.

I don't think that will work either.
Nothing else worked.

Isn't there a school Counselor? Why can't they set up counseling for him?
If he has anger issues... temper problems... then that has to be addressed first... because his actual acting out... is BECAUSE of his anger issues and inability to "cope" with it. So... by only treating the 'symptoms' without getting to the ROOT of the problem... nothing may work. It is just putting a band-aid on things.

You need to have his problems addressed... first. So the root of the problem is corrected.
Anger comes from somewhere within him... and acting out is just the manifestation... of his anger.... and by this time, he is at his limit or at the limit of his ability to self-manage himself.

He needs to learn skills... on how to "cope" with his anger... and maybe family counseling... for any other issues, if may be.

He will be labeled as a "Bully" if he keeps this up.
So... he needs to learn behaviors... of HOW to cope with and handle his anger. AND... to learn, ways to COMMUNICATE it... before he bullies and attacks other kids.

all the best,
Susan

Have you considered ODD? Oppositional Defiant Disorder? You might want to have him evaluated. Ask his pediatrician for a referral.

I would have your pediatrician refer you to a mental health specialist, there is something going on here that I don't think you can fix by yourself... or with plain ol' counceling.
Lay out on a blanket in the yard with him and stare up at the stars and ask him what he is really mad about. When you are both staring at the stars while talking it might help him to open up and let you know what crazy stuff he might be bottling. Once you know how he's feeling, maybe you will be able to deal with it better. (that big sky does work wonders)
ADD ON:
Don't ruin his Halloween, but do set boundaries for it. Keep in mind if he is going to dress up as an agressive character he will probably act pretty wild... you might need to plan to compensate for that.

Your son needs professional help way more than a school counselor and he needs it now. Monday, Tuesday or Wed.. Not a while away.

Do let hiom know he needs to keep it together each day..

You may want to do a reward system based on half days in the beginning..
Sat Morning. I need you to listen to my words and not have a fit on Saturday morning while we, clean up your room. If you will do this, You can pick between dinner at .... Or a small ice cream cone.. Or whatever.. a video rental a game rental.. whatever is appropriate.. do the same thing on Sunday..

Speak with the school about you and you/or your husband escorting your son to school. And also staying up at school so he can see you are serious about this behavior.

On Monday, you need to speak with him before he gets on the bus, OR you need to escort him to school, by riding the bus with him.. Have your husband there to give you a ride home.. If you feel he needs you to stay with him at school. Sit in the back of each of his classes so he will know you are serious.. Also get his father to do the same for a few days..

You are there for many reasons. 1.To see what is going on. 2.To let your son know you will not put up with his inappropriate behaviors and 3. to let the school know you are taking this very seriously.

There is something just not right, that he cannot hole it together. It could be physiology or it could be emotionally. It is not fair to the other students or the teacher to have to deal with this.

He told you want the issue was. He is mad, and I bet what he actually means that he has frustration intolerance, and poor ablity to control his impulses, and he cannot apply what he knows about behavior to himself when these things get in the way, that is the nutshell of the problem, and it does not matter what he knows, it matters what he can use when he needs it, and right now, that is not a whole lot...which is the problem! You have already punished him out the wazzoo, and he knows right from wrong, but he cannot apply it to himself in the moment, then keeping him from trick or treating is not going to fix this ether. I would stay with him to trick or treat so that he does not get into any trouble, but don't yank something so near and dear to every kid in the world because he has an issue that he cannot control, has yet to be identifed, and is not yet being treated appropriately. That will just give him good cause to be full of resentment once you get a diagnosis and good treatment. I don't think that this is his fault in the slightest, he needs help. He is not a bad kid, he needs help (that should make you feel better about him too!)

You need more than a just a counselor. You need a Developmental Pediatrician, or a Board Certified Child Psychiatrist/Neuropsychological evaluation combination. He is telling you loud and clear that typical dicipline is not going to work and that he needs help.

This is not the schools issue beyond getting him some control such that he can participate in his classes, so the first line of treatment is in your court, so get a full evaluation and medical treatment ASAP. If you are in public school, write to them and request an evaluation and an IEP meeting as soon as possible to develop a Behavior plan. What you need is something called a Functional Behavioral Assessment at school, and he needs a possitive behavioral interventions and supports, and he can get this through IDEA special education services, counselor or no counselor. He needs this behavior plan as soon as you can get it in place, it will protect him as much as it protects the other children. If you do not get this into the realm of IDEA services, all the aspects of the student code of conduct will be applied to him, and this problem will continue to escalate. You need to protect him now.

I would suggest that you read a book by Dr. Mel Levine "All kinds of Minds" that is a great start. www.wrightslaw.com will help you with parent advocacy to get him an appropriate behavior plan.

M.

I would sit him down. Ask him what is in it for him? Why is he acting like this? He must be getting something from it.
2. Is he depressed. Does he have friends. Is he able to make friends?
3. Are you guys having marriage problems?
4. Are you guys aggresive with him?
5. Maybe he is need of some parental attention?
6. Have you told him ( make sure he is giving you eye contact when you say this) that you love him unconditional. Your love for him will always always be there no matter what. However you don't like how he has been choosing to act.
7. Do you tell him stuff you admire about him or just complain about him. Tell him and be geniune something you truly admire
8. could you do a reward chart. if he decides to act the right way for a 2 days. He can pick what your having for dinner. 4 days good behavior he gets to go to a movie with just one parent if he is good for a whole month buy him a special toy or if you could afford go away for a family weekend for his reward. praise him tell him how lucky you are to by his mom/dad.
9. see if you can have some type of sign if you touch your nose and your are with him this is his sign to show he needs to take it down a knotch.
10. Was he picked on..maybe that is what started him acting like this?
11. just love him
12. try to volunteer at his school so he knows your keeping an eye on him.
I will pray for you.

I think you've gotten a lot of good responses here. I just wanted to give some input that you mightn't have seen.

When I was about 9, I started 'acting up'. This was mostly in the form of not always doing homework, having (what I now know as normal) conflict with my sister and not always telling the truth when asked. (Much of this was due to my anger at my mother's having had an affair, resulting in the breakup of two families, new stepsiblings, and a new baby brother.) These aren't the same issues as what you are dealing with, but let me explain-- my mother and stepfather began what became a full-scale campaign of changing my behavior through punishment. This would have some devastating consequences for me in the coming years.

Punishment and rote isolation can damage a child's sense of self. It takes a long, long time to repair these damages. It sounds as though your son is really furious and is actually being honest about his anger. That, in itself, is a good thing. I'd give him safe outlets to express himself: paper and markers, playdough, let him crash cars or trains if he needs to, let him punch pillows and then, let him tell you what he needs to without fear of judgment--when he's ready. He might be feeling that he's pretty unacceptable in the opinion of others, and may even be doing some pre-emptory acting out, rejecting others before they can reject him.

Counseling for both himself, and your family, can help. I'm so glad you have already started down this path. It will be a worthwhile investment in everyone's happiness, because I'm sure this impacts everyone.

As for Halloween, I'd be thoughtful about taking this away. I wouldn't use it as a threat or privilege, per se, but just wait and see how things go. If he's acting out in the days immediately before Halloween, then you can explain it to him as a logical consequence -- "We see that you are really having a hard time and that you are hitting other children. We have to be responsible for keeping the other kids safe, too, and so this time, you'll need to stay home. All the kids have the right to feel safe on Halloween." This become less of a punishment and more a consideration of others in relation to his actions.

My heart goes out to you. It sounds like you really love and care for your son, and kids can be such a mystery. The techniques in both Positive Discipline and the parenting classic "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen...And How to Listen So Kids Will Talk" can help immensely in getting discipline on a more responsive and proactive track (punishment, in my opinion, is largely enforced reactively) and will also improve the communication within the family.

I don't know if he's too old for this, but Mr Rogers has some great dvd's entitled "Adventures in Friendship" and "What do you do with the mad that you Feel?" which give a lot of support without judgment. I personally am still not too old to appreciate Mr Rogers, and his empathetic approach to hard, conflicted feelings can still be helpful/instructive at this age.

My heart goes out to you and your son. You are lucky enough to still be in a place to mend hurt feelings and hurt hearts, and hopefully, to move forward together. Good for you for getting help now. My best to you.

Hi K. --

You've received some excellent ideas/suggestions here . . .
even from those moms who apparently missed some of the details
you included in your description of what's been going on.

About a counselor outside of school . . .
you said the first appointment is "a bit away".
Not good enough.

You and your son need to be seen SOONER than that.
Check w/your pediatrician or any other trusted resource
to see if you can get your son seen by a therapist
ASAP. Even if he doesn't continue with that person longterm,
there could be an assessment and some recommendations
to see (all of) you through until you get an appointment
w/the other counselor.

Meanwhile . . . . I wonder if you can use this available time --
while DS is out of school -- to have some caring, intimate conversations with him, just the two of you, exploring what's been going on
in his mind, in his life lately. Not as "Why have you been doing . . . .
whatever" but . . . . OTHER STUFF.
What's been happening?
What have you been learning in school?
Tell me about your teacher.
etc.

Why would you punish your son for something that could be a medical/neurological disorder that is effecting him? It does not seem fair to continue to punish him for something he may not be able to control. Have you explored that option yet? If you have not then I strongly suggest you do.

I know this sounds trite. Spend time with him doing positive things. Do a science project in the kitchen, teach him how to cook (they are never too younge to learn something in the kitchen!), show him how to do something he can take pride in. I've seen it time and time again, kids out of control, angry, resentful and destructive. What they really need is some validation that they matter, that they are loved, that they really aren't all bad.
When he does something give him a specific punishment (time out), then pick up where you left off and don't let one thing ruin the day. Once he figures out that there is fun and life and love, the behavior should improve. Right now it sounds like the only attention that he is getting is when he is bad. You can turn it around.

Remember, I don't know you, and this is my perspective. In my experience, aggressive children are usually that way in response to some issues at home. Are you excessively physically punitive (i.e. spanking)? Are you excessively punitive in general? It sure sounds like you spend a lot of time punishing him for things. Is there any other trauma in his home life (usually divorce or separation)? These things are almost always the cause of an aggressive kid. Unless he's got some kind of mental illness, something is going on in your home to cause this much aggression.

Personally, I don't think taking away Halloween is the answer, and I think it will make it worse. You need to get to the root of his behavior, not punish him more.

Just scanned the other responses, and I am so impressed with everyone's response to this question. It seems like everyone agrees a counselor is in order for this boy.

Hi honey,

I don't have this problem with my kids...but I do with my husband! What we've learned is that it's caused by his health. When he's starting to get a drop in blood pressure, he feels poorly, can'y concentrate, gets mad. Just mad, no explanation for it. We started using food grade hydrogen peroxide and it made a HUGE difference--apparently he has a yeast or bacterial issue in his system that plays roulette with his blood sugar. With the peroxide he's cheerful, clearheaded and I swear his IQ goes up about 50 points.

Nope, I'm not saying you should give your son peroxide (although it might help, for info check out earthclinic.com), but there definately can be physical reasons for a person being out of sorts. Also, some toxins, like fluoride, can make people aggressive with no obvious cause.

Best wishes and blessings

Sounds like your son has some anger management issues and has no way of expressing himself except through agression towards others. Have you considered a therapist? They can talk to him, get down to the real problem and give him and you guys tools on how to defuse a situation or handle his anger. Halloween, is no big deal, don't think it would make a difference. Something has happened in your sons world or is exposed to something, perhaps bullying at school and he is acting out. I would really consider therapy intervention. Good luck, I know it's frustrating.

There is more than likely a deeper issue. Wether or not the school offers the counseling he needs it. Often times it surfaces there someone is abusing him, like a older sibling, teacher, or even friends parents. Try letting him know that you are there for him and nothing can change that. Predators usually threaten family so he may be scared to let you know. This could be obsolete in your situation but nobody is angry for no reason. Try to find out whats really going on before you cont. taking privlages away. Hope this helps.

.

Do you ask him WHY he's so angry? Is he involved in any sports or activities that let extra energy out? He may just have pent up energy and he doesn't know how to let it out safely. Talk with him about ways he can express his anger in ways that are safe for everyone. Let him yell into a pillow. Enroll him in martial arts (they teach more about control and discipline than aggression). Make sure he has a good hour or so to run around and get the extra energy out. Get him to write a story about being angry.

I understand the first response is to punish the behaviour (we ALL do it!), but taking away Halloween will just make him MORE angry. I think you need to get to the root of his anger and teach him healthy ways of expressing it.

Wow, I am so sorry, this is a tough one. I am not an expert nor a doctor but as a parent I am thinking it might be a good idea to get into the counselor and a doctor to get him checked out. Is there a reason he may be angry? It seems like he is taking his anger out on others when it has nothing to do with them. I am now 38 but when I was little I was pretty angry because my parents got a divorce, in those days no one checked in to things like this so I didn't find out until now that I have been angry because of that and if I would of known I could of worked it out and had more peace growing up. Sorry if I am miss speeking but I am just thinking out load. What if he can't control himself and he just needs plain help? I can completely understand your frustration, this I am sure is so hard to deal with. Since you asked I am going to have to vote to "no" trick or treating, suspension is a pretty big deal. I really hope you get your answers when you see the counselor, maybe try to get into to a doctor also, there could be some things off balance and blood work might tell that. I do wish you all the luck, my heart goes out for you and your son.

my adhd step son says dont ground from halloween. he also says this does sound like adhd. The fights are more out of fustratioin than anything. Have the teachers isolate him when he gets fustrated. He also said to make him write sentences for punishment. so if he wants to go trick or treating he has to write sentences. dont give up part but not all is an age thing but there is something else going on there. the counselor will have to diagnose that.

Hmm, something is going on with him, I agree with the counseling sometimes it's hard to have someone this age open up. Also ask him if he is being bullied in school and all this aggression may be in response to that. Does he exhibit physical aggression outside school or just there? Pls. do not take away his trick or treating if there is something going on with him mentally it would not be right to take this away from him. If he does not have any mental issues going on, he will open up to someone he trust. Good luck.

I would not take away halloween, because I'm betting he will lose it and only reinforce they he is a "bad" kid and If he knew how to easily control his behavior I suspect he would do it. is he on any medications? some may have negative effects on his behavior as a side effect.
Does he know what appropriate responses he should use when he is mad? Could he have low self-esteem as a result he is very defensive and gets mad when something happens or he feels the need to "protective his self" from feeling hurt. Can you try to relate to him, like when he says he is mad, tell him that you get mad/angry to for this or that but how you respond differently. Have him brainstorm with you what he could do next time in a similar situation.

good luck, hope something works out.

Rule of thumb....a child that makes trouble is in trouble. Good thing you have a counselor lined up. Meanwhile try to find out what is eating at him. Good luck.

I don't have an opinion about taking Halloween away. When my son was 7, he was starting to have anger issues at school. He got in trouble twice for fighting, one resulting in an in school suspension and the other ending in an out of school suspension. We didn't know what to do, but knew that we needed him to learn to control his temper. We came up with a plan that helped. We got a jar for each of our children, a bag of noodles and explained some rules. Noodles would be added to and taken out of the jars for behavior. They got noodles for clearing dishes, making their beds, listening to what we asked them to do, etc. They lost noodles for disobeying, hitting, etc. The amount of noodles lost for hitting was higher than the amount of noodles gained for doing good things. When the noodle jar was full, there would be a reward. At the beginning, we bought them things, or did something special, but now we give them money when it is full. (This is in lieu of an allowance.)

My son watched his sister fill her noodle jar, while his would get partially full, and then emptied when he would lose his temper and hit someone. It bugged him a little bit as it was going on. But it was really hard when his sister got something special and his jar was still almost empty. Slowly, he started to control his temper. He didn't like seeing the results of all his hard work being taken away by one swing of his fist.

I don't know how well this would work with any other child, but my son is 11 now and rarely hits anyone. He still loses his temper, but not as often. And when he does get angry, he is better able to get himself back in control.

I hardly think that spanking or hitting a child that has anger issues is the way to go here. Please, do not do go that route. What he needs to learn is to control his anger, not act it out.

I agree with Laurie A. Something is way off here. He needs to be checked and quickly. Do not wait. If he doesn't have mental health issues (bi-polar, schizophrenic, etc), then I would suggest enrolling him in TaeKwonDo. Ask around, see what is out there. At the studio my daughter belongs to, any person that is disrespectful in class has to do push ups or jumping jacks. They teach respect, discipline and control. Three things it sounds like your son needs.

Good luck.

Have you had him evaluated for any behavior disorders prior to this? Has he always had these anger issues? Did something happen?

If has something medically wrong and cannot help how he behaves then I don't think its fair to punish him by taking away Halloween. Punishments need to directly follow the behavior. If he is just flat out being mean to be mean then although Halloween is a distance from when the offense occurred you could try it but honestly if all the other forms of discipline don't work I doubt that will either. Have you tried rewarding him for when he does cope with his anger appropriately? I think in the mean time you and the school need to come up with a reward plan and give that a try for now. My son's teacher lets the kids go to a small treasure box at the end of each week if they stay in green on a color wheel it seems to work much better then telling them if you get to red you get a detention.

From the time my kids were very small (a year old), I've really enforced empathy towards others. Whether hurting someone was accidental or intentional, I would first talk with them about it, then tell them we needed to go say our sorry. I then marched them over there. Even if my child wouldn't speak, I would speak for them. I can only think of a couple instances past the age of 5 since both of them are very considerate of others as it was taught. So, my advice would be to have a talk with him. Ask him how he would feel if he were in their shoes. Ask him if he thinks apologizing is a good idea. He may be resistant initially, but keep emphasizing positive behavior. In your shoes, once your son agrees, I would call the other mom and ask if your son could come over to apologize. I would still follow through with the counselor as well, as working with an impartial party is always a good idea. Best of luck to you.

Your son sounds just like mine. Have you taken your son to his ped and asked to have him evaluated for adhd? My son is adhd and fits your son like he is his clone. It is good that the school is working with you. You can request an evaluation for services in writing to the school and they legally have to evaluate your son even if they don't want to. An iep will set up guidelines and help for your son. Also, they are limited to how many times they can suspend him per year then. But you have to do it in writing. Set up a reward system, look and see the positive, not the negative. Let him know you see him doing good. I don't mean no punishments, but have a list of priviledges he will get if he does good, and a list of things he will lose if he doesn't. Above all, be consistant. I would for halloween set up a small goal for him, like not yelling or throwing for a day at school, then take him. Something he can meet, so he sees that if he behaves, or atleast tries, he is rewarded. Work on one thing at a time also with his behavior.

Read the book "Positive Discipline", it WILL help. It basically talks about how you can't fix a poor behaviour by making the child feel worse about what they are doing, there need to be consequences but they need to be logical and respectful so the child will understand. The book is inexspensive and isn't long and drawn out but it details situations very similar to your own. If you go to positivediscipline.com you can buy the book new for $10, I got an older copy on Amazon for $2. It has drastically helped with disciplining my kids even in the toughest of situations. Good Luck.

difficultchild.com
Things to consider:
Counseling needs to start now, meet with his pediatrician ~ ask for suggestions & testing, strip his room down to bare basics & remove door & all toys, write apology letters to the teachers, kids he's bullying, bus driver, write sentences, write book reports about anger, write book reports about military schools, boot camps & juvenile detention center, take him to visit a detention center.

I would also like to add that what is so wrong with taking away Halloween? Isn't the whole point of making a lasting impression on disciplining a child to take away something they really want/like? I have taken away Halloween parties & trick or treating & my daughter really learned a lesson, that I will NOT allow her to behave badly & that I am the parent & she is the child. We are a society of 'show him love' or 'talk to him about what's bothering him', but those things should be done all the time anyway but seriously kids are so over indulged that taking away Halloween should be considered.

Most importantly be very consistent in disciplining & if you can't/haven't then you have yourself to blame for his behavior & you will not get him under control till you can learn to be an effective disciplinarian.

How about the 5 love languages! I would not be surprised if he needed more one on one time even if he claims not to needed that. I agree with the others saying that punishment creates anger and does not help. I would consider a Halloween party for him and his friends instead, really!

Good luck,

H

I think you know. No Halloween, no electronics (TV, games, computer, radio, etc.). How about Natural consequences for his choices.

Sounds like he is going through a lot. You are taking lots of steps to improve the situation, taking away Halloween wouldn't fix the problem. I'd go ahead and let that happen. Good luck!

It sounds like your son doesn't know what else to do in these situations. You may have more luck trying to teach him new behaviors rather than trying to keep him from doing the only behaviors he knows to do when he gets frustrated.

Working with kids who struggle with appropriate behavior, the experts recommend really stressing the positive. For example, say 5 positive things for every time he needs to be re-directed. (This would be in the school setting, especially).

I'm afraid keeping Halloween from him is not going to be effective and it would be sad to see him set up for that kind of disappointment.

Can you ask him what would help him? I'm glad to hear you're getting a counselor set up. -I'm not currently working with kids w/behavior problems, but I have a little experience previously, based on that experience, that is my advice.

Good Luck! I know he can learn some new behaviors and strategies for handling stress.

J.

In addition to all the things you are doing I would suggest talking to him about alternative ways to manage his anger. You can take away his toys and priveliges all day but if he doesn't know how to deal with his emotions it will keep happening again and again. Try role-playing at home. Ask a counselor or doctor about coping techniques that you can teach him (taking 10 deep breaths is a simple one) and then practice those techniques with him through role playing. I totally understand that you need to take things away and use discipline, but just make sure you are also giving him the tools he needs to manage his intense feelings. Talking about this stuff is great, but actually practicing it in a controlled invironment is key. best of luck!

My child does not respond to rewards and punishments. I've had some good luck with this "collaborative problem solving" approach - http://www.livesinthebalance.org/what-is-collaborative-pr...
My daughter seems more likely to work with us if she feels we are empathetic to her issues rather than just "taking their side" or whatever. Good luck....

Taking away the bigger things, like play dates and birthday parties when my 5 yr old would throw major temper tantrums has made a huge improvement on her everyday behavior. It was the only thing that I have found that she cares enough about to make a difference. If your son really wants to go out on Halloween, he should earn it with good behavior. Helping this out look like involving him with creating his costume with you, rather than buying one (one on one time), making a jack-o-lantern, Halloween treats for the family, etc. Just involving him in the processes of creating a fun Halloween and the promise if he keeps his temper in control, that he can have a fun time and so can you.

It sounds to me like your son hasn't learned impulse control very well. He get mad: he hits. Punishments won't improve this. When he's acting out he's not taking the time to think about what the consequences might be...he just has to vent his anger NOW, and fighting is the only way he knows how to do this.

I'm sure the counselor will help with this, but until you get in to see her/him, try helping your child learn new ways to channel his anger. Even if it means punching the air or a soft chair, it's better than punching another person.

No, I wouldn't take Halloween night away. I think you do your best to keep things reasonable and him calm until you get him to the counselor. Then, with their guidance, you can come up with a system. That's what I would do anyway. Sometimes you just need extra help. I hope all goes well and wish you all peace.

One more thing. It sounds like he's only doing these things at school. Is he acting out at home at all? Have the teacher fill out the ADHD assessment form and also ask your son and his friends about bullies.

I haven't experienced this and my children are younger but I do think there must be something(s) at the root of the problem. I just read "How to Really Parent Your Child" and thought it was great. I know the author has also written "How to Really Parent Your Teen" and I believe he goes into more depth about what he calls "stealth anger." The books are Christian based but even if you're not Christian I think they could give you a different perspective on the issue.

I, too, have a son who is close to 9. We have gone through this for YEARS with our son. The book, 'The Explosive Child' by Dr. Ross Greene is a great book. We have taken him to a counselor, had blood work done, took him off EVERYTHING with Red-dye #40 (HUGE improvement!!) had him tested for ADHD, etc. He is currently going to a social skills group through our mental health office, seeing a psychiatrist, and has been referred to have neurological exams done to determine if he possibly has Asperger's Syndrome. This has been such a rough thing for our whole family, but I am determined to fight for him. I have also been told to have an IEP done at school for him (and that you will have to fight for that!). Until you find what's going on to cause these behaviors, I don't recommend taking away things like Halloween. Such a hard thing to figure out how to use natural consequences (although I do agree with the response to taking it away to keep others safe if he's acting out on that day). The one thing that I try to keep in mind is that if he is doing these things due to something physically that he has no control of, you can't "punish" him. It's like punishing a child for sneezing. There NEEDS to be consequences, not punishments. Big difference, although, hard to determine difference! Good Luck!!