Need Impartial Advice Badly: to Get a Divorce or Stay Married. Please Help.

nobody can really tell you what to do in a situation like this. but this guy needs some serious psychological help if you are going to make it work. it sounds like he's made it very difficult for you to trust him. i wonder what his issues really are with telling the truth.

you say that 2 parent families are more stable, but that is not always true. this fellow sounds like he's not quite right in the head. you might still love him, but will you ever be able to trust him? a 2 parent family without trust is NOT stable.

I would have to ask whether or not you still love this man. If you do, keep at it with the counseling. Has anyone suggested hypnosis? If you don't have any feelings for him then I have to say that life is WAY too short to spend it with someone that you don't love (not to mention, don't trust).

Oh my.... have you heard of Neil Entwisle? When is enough enough?? When is he going to say a lie so big, so gigantic, that he's gonna feel he can't get himself out of?? From an outsider's point of view, this smells like trouble to me. It sounds like he has some mental issues. I commend you for trying to work it out but the base and foundation of every marriage is trust. And without that foundation, ever brick layed down is balancing on nothing but sod. When a big wind comes by, that house is gonna topple over. My opinion??? You need to leave this relationship.

Hi S., I am sorry you are confronted with a decision like this. All that comes to mind for me is that you should think about yourself (I know mom's tend to put kids and family first) But what you give of yourself to other people is a reflection of what's inside. Can you imagine yourself in a few years married to a person and sharing EVERYTHING with a person you cannot trust, always on edge thinking "is he telling the truth?" Will you feel any sense of security in your own life always trying to brace yourself for the next revelation where you find out he's done it again? And what about when your daughter becomes older and is aware of your unease and can tell when something is amiss? These are questions I ask myself now, about what my life would have been like if I had not made the difficult decision to leave my son's father when my son was 6 months old. I had struggled with the decision for about 7 months because I loved him, but ultimately decided that putting my trust into someone who cannot be trusted was no way to live. I'm not saying one way or the other but only that I empathize and I wish you the best in whatever you do.
L. M.

So, my 2 cents...

My first thought was...do you know for sure that he's actually going to therapy???

The next thing that went through my mind was TRUST. How can you trust a man that tells such elaborate lies? Not only just to you but involves other people too? The foundation of ANY good relationship is trust and if it isn't there then there is no relationship. There's no way around it.

Then you should think about what kind of message you are sending to your daughter? Children are sponges and soak up everything they see and hear. How are you going to react the first time she makes up some elaborate lie "just like Daddy".

Above all you need to think about yourself and what it is that makes you feel that you need to stay with a man you can't trust. We teach people how to treat us so what is it that lets you allow him to treat you this way. It's great that you love each other (or at least you love him) but it takes much more than that to build a marraige.

I feel like it would be a good idea for you to get counseling on your own to help you sort this all out. Family and friends (and objective observers) are great for their opinions but you really need to get to the root of the problems before it can be determined whether or not this marraige can be saved.

Good luck and I wish you the best.

S.-

Here are the things I think you need to answer for your self as truthfully as possible. . .

Do you feel safe with him?

Does being with him make you compromise your values in any way?

Do you trust him? Can you?

Do you expect him to change?

What is his motivation to lie?

I think you are in a tough position. Loving each other and sharing a child makes it even more complicated. I think you should feel a strong YES in your deepest and highest being if you are going to stay with him because it will take all your strength and clarity to manage his lies and whatever happens in your life as a result of his his lies. I think it is unrealistic to expect him to change. . . even if he really really wants to.

Good luck.

Mara

You sound intelligent. I would imagine that he is lying because he doesn't want to face the consequences of your anger if he admitted that he forgot things or wasn't able to provide for your families needs. Whether or not you would get angry and would have a conflict, he imagines it will happen and is trying to avoid it at all costs. Maybe it is a throwback to his youth and the results of his shortcomings with his mother. Who knows. The bottom line is can you live with this lying or is there a possibility the lying will become harmful to your family in any way? If you can live with it and it is not harmful, whatever. If it is harmful to your relationship or he cannot be trusted with your daughter, it is time to move on. Trust your own instincts with this one, only you know in your heart what is right for you and your daughter. Remember though, both of you are role models for your daughter's future behavior.

Wow--that really messes with a person's head to be lied to like that. There is no excuse, and it is crazy-making! In my humble opinion, it is a violation of your trust as much as if he had had an affair. But that's just my opinion. Still, I'd look at your support system when deciding whether to leave him. If you don't have one at all, and he does a good amount of work at home and with your daughter, it may well be worth letting him stick around a bit longer. On the other hand, the older your daughter gets, the harder it will be for her to adjust to a separation.

One more thing--be sure to document all his lies. Write them down, tell other people, and tell your therapist to write it down too. If you end up in court over custody, that will help your case.

Best of luck, and try not to let him drive you crazy!

I didnt get a chance to read any other responces and i think i have more questions than answers! but my advice ( as a nurse) : Have you talked to anyone in his family? Is lying part of his past? Was there any lying while you were dating/early marriage or did this just come about and what do you think triggered it? I know its difficult, but the guy sounds like he really needs some help. I would hate to see the trait passed on. I know you said youve been to counsiling and therapy, but has he ever been to a medical doctor? Is this a behavior change? It could even be early alzheimers (can happen). It sounds like he is dilousional (SP?)Is there a history of anyting on his side? I guess i need more info! The brain is a very sensative organ. Get him medically checked out. I would try to stick it out and get him some help. He is your family, you would do it for your daughter wouldnt you?

i think you have a whole field of red flags waving in your face.... this sort of lying is pathological and i would really question if he is going to therapy... you said it psychotic!!!
this lying is NOT normal and i think scary
are you in therapy????
stay safe and listen to your gut
best
i

My first reaction was how can this be good for your child, and what is it teaching her. However, whether you are married or not this is going to affect her. If you love each other...I say keep trying. And definitely keep counseling, together. It doesn't sound like you can necessarily trust that he's counseling solo.

K.

Wow we all know that this is not tolerable, at all. I feel your fustration. I had this issue with my husband about lying about silly stupid things. Your issue is much more severe. So were my problems were minimal and I thought I was going to lose it so I can see why you are at wits end. It seems that his lying is pathological. He might not even realize that he is doing it because he believes himself. I think that right now were he has started therapy to stay with him. If you love him try to make it work. 5 months isn't long enough to get him out of this. As long as he sticks with the therapy and is actually working on this issue with a therapist stay. See if you can talk to the therapist yourself to see how you can deal with your fustration and things you can do when he starts spitting out lies to stop him from even talking.
If he stops trying to work this issue then you should lay it all out for him. If he is willing to work on this so are you. If he is not you are not either.

Good luck and I truly hope you find a way to make things work best for you and your little girl.

I don't think you should jump right to divorce. IT sounds as if he needs counseling.

No divorce but seek counseling for you both. It's so important to keep your family intact, especially now that you share a baby girl. It's terrible he's a liar. He needs to live in the present and do some personal development to take him there. You being an aspiring Yogini, share that with him and maybe he'll catch on to live in the present and enjoy who he is rather than make up stories.

There is a wonderful book worth checking about BEFORE making such a huge decision. "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum. Really helpful....you can find it on Amazon. Really helps you gain perspective in a clear and concise manner and asks some hard hitting-to the point questions that help clear up and mucky/confusing areas. Good luck.

Hi S.,

I had a friend who lied like your husband. She was married to a great guy for 21 years. In the beginning of the marriage, he found out that she had spent thousands of dollars on things she couldn't explain. Just after giving birth to their first child, he found out she had spent their savings and had cancelled their health insurance. There complications when she gave birth, which left them with a $20,000 medical bill. He told her if she ever lied to him again, he would divorce her.

Well, 15 years later they have two beautiful children together. Unfortunately, she died suddenly about 18 months ago. Her husband found out that he was $30,000 in debt. She had also spent the children's college funds. She had cashed in all of their life insurance policies, so it cost him an additional $12,000 for her funeral.

In everyones eyes, she was a Saint. Nicest, kindest woman you could meet. There were hundreds of people at her funeral. She was definitely loved.

What did she do with the money? No one knows. I think she was gambling, but I'm not sure.

My advice is to end it now. You could end up like my friend, with two children, alone and in debt.

The good news is, that he has paid off most of the debt and is a wonderful dad.

Had he known she was ruining their finances, he would have divorced her. May God works in mysterious ways. Her children did loose their mother, but at 13 and 15 did not witness an ugly divorce. I'd suggest doing it now before your daughter understands what's going on.

I would NEVER advise someone to get divorced if there was hope, but it sounds like he's a pathological liar and at this age, it's too late to change without years of therapy.

Good Luck

Here is my honest and impartial advice. GET OUT!!
This is so dysfunctional and scary. Those are huge lies and you can't trust a thing he says. These pathological lies can not be ignored or forgiven.
Therapy for him is a very good thing- but you need to protect your daughter and yourself from a potentially harmful atmosphere.
You should begin by talking to a different psychologist- for your own benefit. I also think you should seek the advice of a lawyer to know exactly what your options are. Make sure you hire a separate lawyer for your daughter. Her interests are important here and you need to make sure that any visitation he has with her is supervised as he may lie about what goes on with her.
Good luck and please seek some professional help. This is frightening stuff!
-S.

In my humble opinion, if you have ruled out psychiatric problems with your husband, then there will never be trust in your marriage - and a marriage must be based on trust.

I am nowhere near a mental health professional, but he sounds like he has a clinical disorder. He won't change unless he acknowledges he has problem, gets properly diagnosed and gets professional help. Love alone won't fix this.

I am truly sorr you are going through this. I thought I would be more opinionated on this b/c I am Christian, believe in the sanctity of marriage and also agree with you 100% about 2 household families eing more stable and much needed! I have an 11 year old and life is MUCH harder for him after my being single for 6 of those years. I also think if you decide to have children you do what is best for them and parents who choose to stay together are rewarded in ways we can't explain by that dicision.
I try to put myself in your position and think what I would do. I know my life would be exactly that if my sons father was still here, he died when our son was 3. If he were still alive, my love for him owuld surpass anything, even if we weren't married a love like that would have prevented me from being elsewhere. I'm not sure how "happy" I would be aboutthe situation and would too be pleading for it to stop. My family would probably tell me to leave him only b/c they weren't in favor with him and didn't see what I saw, who I knew him to be.
What kind of counseling is he in? Does he really go? I think of having an intervention which you kind of already tried. But can your love surpass this? Can you handle this for the remainder of your lives together? Does you or more importantly does HE want his daughter to see this and learn form it? Nothing can bring light to things like children? What does the counseor say? Do they make some kind of medication for this? Does he have ADD or ADHD? This behavior I see in my son as well as his father and they both have ADHD.I would maybe look into a professional and learn more about his lying. I think psychologists are going crazy today with over diagnosing things but if there is something to help, it's worth a try. I don't know how you feel about Church but my Pastor I'm sure could put into in perspective for your husband. He's not a "fluffy" kind of Pastor. He lays it out like it is and honestly helped me stop thinking about my sons father and get me back into my marriage with plain old truths.
I wish you the best of luck and hope it all works out for the best for everyone involved.
Why does he feel the need to lie? have you asked him?

my observations are: his lies were not to cover up terrible things. They seem to be out of confidence crisis, lack of courage, shame, or ... well you will know better than i can. You are talking openly about it, it seems. so the problem is not: will this happen again? But is he seriously trying to put this final trust in you and in himself to free himself from the need to lie. You love each other. I am sure you will be able to grow out of this. You need to leave if you want to. but it sounds like you do not want to. sounds like you need your suffering acknowledged. love is not a game we play to win (billy bragg). so you suffer, cause he suffers. transform it and your love will flourish and your daughter will carry it to be your lovely, shining continuation. you say you love each other. what can go wrong?

i have been so unhappy in my marriage. i cling to the thought that if we manage to be truely vulnerable in front of each other love will grow. so far it worked! we are getting happier every day. we have two kids.

sounds like you have so many resources and a big, sustainable glow in yourself. keep on shining. good luck.
D.
PS:Oh, i want to add that you cannot be his "salvation", he has to find his own. So: good if he sees a professional. Good if he takes things into his hands and changes them. This is his reponsibility. In my experience the first person we need to make happy is ourselves. All other ways fail. So our prime duty is to take good care of ourselves. I have tried to live this for 8 yeas, and the better i manage to live it, the happier i and my family became so far.

It sounds like you know what to do, but you are either scared or comfortable. S., honey, you need to leave and sooner rather than later. This is not normal behaviour AT ALL and it makes me a little worried for you. I would have laughed at the cat story if it didn't remind me of my own lying, child's father. Some people just lie, it's their reality and they don't know any better. I refuse to live in a liar's world...come join me.
Peace & Blessings

I agree with Jean P... sounds like a clinical disorder. I am not sure that he can help what he is doing, but needs to get his own help so he can STOP what he is doing. I would ask him to see a psychiatrist as well, not just a counselor and see if he can get some sort of diagnosis AND treatment.
Good luck, my heart goes out to you!

hi S.:

first and foremost, this must be your decision. some concerns i have: when red flags go up and they are not heeded, regret is certain to follow. staying together for the sake of the children is DEFINITELY NOT THE RIGHT REASON TO STAY TOGETHER...it is good that you both still love each other. he is one lucky man. are you sure he does? i mean, these are not little lies. where is the trustworthiness? if youre confident that he does, then you have something to work with.....please know, in terms of your question about people changing.....if there isnt true recognition of a problem or a DEEP COMMITTMENT to want to change and do what it takes to change, it will not happen. think about the situations you described....with a liar, how do you ever know when they are telling the truth? are you going to continue to guess and hope you know the difference? think about the scenarios of which you arent even aware of!!!!! a HAPPY two parent household is the most stable...what kind of example or lifestyle is this for your 2 year old? im not trying to slant you in one direction, but simply giving you alot of questions or points to consider. coming from someone who went through the same thing and seeing someone else i work with go through it as well......it is not easy, and no solution is perfect...and know he will always beg if you threaten to leave no matter what. if you "threaten" you must carry it through or your credibility diminishes and his respect goes down even further .pray on this before you make any final decisions.

i sincerely wish you well. you are between a rock and a hard place. stay in touch if you like.

S.

S., my first instinct is to tell you that none of us can predict your future with this man. EVERYONE has a personal experience to throw into the mix. NOBODY is impartial.

This is a woman's website, so it seems (seems) to me that you already know the answer. Treat yourself kindly.
H

Hello S.,

I had to respond to your story. I can not tell you honestly if you should leave him or not as there is so much more to your relationship with him that I am not considering and giving you advise on just this issue is something I would not be prepared to do. However, I would tell you that I have a Sister who has this same identical problem. She was this way from young. I can remember my Mother saying to her all the time "think before you speak" She would lie about everything. She would even lie when she went to school and tell the teachers stories about home life that just were not true. She loved attention and as soon as she discovered that the more gruesome the lie that was created the more attention it got she started some stories that had it been today my Parents would of lost her to the State. She once told her Godmother that my Mother and Father beat her. When her Godmother confronted my parents my Mother was ever so devestated. Well she grew and as she got older it did not stop there. The other thing she did was add to a story. If she went to the doctor for a cold she came back with a diagnosis of cancer. She would actually sit back and watch all of us go through the news and when we would find out that it was not so we would all be so angry with her. In those days therapy was something that parents of those times did not beleive in. I will tell you that today she is 60 years old and has driven every friend she has ever had away from her, she has a Daughter who just had to seperate herself from her for 4 years now. You see the problem is that you just do not know when she is telling the truth from lying. She refuses to beleive that she has anything wrong with her and she gets angry when confronted about her lying. I have come to the conclusion that she will die this way and will not change her ways. Nobody else in the family is like that. She has a Daughter who is very dramatic like her but really does not lie. She even lied and said that my Father touched her inappropriatly. I had the biggest confrontation with her over that one and she just kept saying what he did and the story grew as she spoke. I think she has deep seeded issues and they are connected to attention. If she is not the center of attention she makes up a story that will get the attention. She has been like this since she was young and she is now 60. My guess is that your Husband has this same problem and lives out these lies as if they were real. I have no doubt that he loves you as but whatever the reason is that he lies to you is beyond his control right now. I wish the best for you and when all else fails pray. God still moves today and if you pray ask Him to move in your Husbands life and let the truth come forth.

God Bless you both.

I can 100% relate. Can I tell you, after 10 years, never got better. Silliest lies too. Definitely becomes a pathalogical habit. When we split, I told him I felt, if he has lunch at McDonald's he would say it was Burger King. If you decide to stay (and I hope with couseling you can work thinks out) BEWARE because if ever a serious situation arises and you question him, it will be a lie and he will go down with the lie. Even when caught, still lie. Unless he turns it around, you will never be able to fully trust him! they tell you what they think you want to hear (which, if they only knew was the TRUTH)! Good luck and again, I truly hope you can work things out as you have a little one and he is in counseling.

Oh S.,
I feel for you! I wish that I could say just leave, but it's tough because you do have a little one involved. I can only suggest to try counseling again, together. I know that the lies are hurtful and not needed, I know that you must feel like if he lies about all this stuff and goes to the degree he does to keep the lie going and make it so believable, then what else is he lying about as well. That is what I would be thinking too. Have you talked to his family at all to see if there is a pattern of pathological lying? Mabye he needs more help than just going to a couselor. I wish you the best of luck.

S.,

What a perplexing problem! I think if you love eachother and he's basically a good husband and father you should try to work it out if possible. Divorce is never easy for anyone involved - especially the children. It really sounds like he has something mentally wrong with him. Maybe with the right professional help and/or medication you'll see some changes. Rather than a marriage counselor maybe he needs a psycologist or psyciatrist - if he's willing to go. As I was reading about your problem, I immediately thought of the movie "A Beautiful Mind" - which was based on a true story of a man with Schizophrenia. This man really and truly believed that different things, people, etc. were real or that events really happened. Maybe it's nothing like that at all in your husband's case, but it definitely sounds like more than someone who tells little white lies to cover their back - it sounds like he can't distinguish between what's in his mind and reality. I really hope that things work out for you and your family. Best wishes.

Jen

It appears that he goes through a lot of trouble to keep the truth from you. I would ask him to seek psychological help....but how would you know if he did or not? The lies you mention are not minor my concern would be what else is he lying about. It sounds as though you are able to provide for yourself and your daughter. You also sound as though you have a good head on your shoulders. These lies and inconsistencies not affect you but affect your daughter. I do not think I could allow such lies that can truly raise havoc on my life (job, money, health insurance) to affect my daughter. If I were in your shoes, I think I would leave him.

sorry to hear your troubles. I have a very close friend who is going through the same thing. Myself coming from a marriage off trust and honasty I belive you should move on. Seeing daily the stress my friend goes through and the hurt she feels everytime there is another lie she finds out about, I believe there is happiness elts where. Also if you can't trust the very man you have children with, live life events with and share all your finances with, who can you trust. t
This should be the person you want to share every moment with and never feel hurt from. Good luck with your decision.

Extremely simple. Want more for yourself. Make new patterns in your life so that when your daughter grows up she is modeling a strong woman that values how people treat her. I never stayed in a relationship one second longer when lies or cheating appeared. Believe me I loved and wanted to look past inconsistencies because I loved a man. Love yourself more. End it move on.

Get Out!!!! The situation is bad for you and your daughter. People rarely change mo matter how much we want to believe they can or will. You gave it a fair shot and now its time to take care of yourself and your child. He sounds like a sociopath (sorry.) Good luck to you

It sounds like your husband has a real disorder of some kind. If you really love him, you may have to confront him with family and friends to get him the help he needs. This may be treatable. Best of luck.

S.
I believe that when you get married and commit to in better or worse in sickness and health that it is just that a committment. However, there are exceptions. But this sounds like he does need some help. I would first suggest that you get the book Created to be His helpmeet and read that from cover to cover. There are several stories of woman who had decided to get a divorce and how their lives had changed forever. It does have scriptures in there and I am not sure your religious background, but I still think it is a good place to start. Don't throw in the towel just yet, there may be a simple solution that is being over looked especially if he is ill.. Good luck with everything
Have a better Day
D.

I'm sorry to hear your situation! For me, what it all boils down to is: you still love each other. Fight for it! Do everything possible! If he's been doing this for so long, he's going to have trouble stopping. Don't give up on counceling and remember to communicate with each other. Obviously I can't know what he's thinking, separating from him could smartten him up or he'll just be worse trying to get you back?

Good luck, my thoughts are with you.
H.

The lie about the Advantage for the cat is a small one and he was kind of supid about it(no offnese) but to pretend that he was going to get some money or to stop working and tell you that he was going to be getting bad and have medical coverage is just wrong. When it come sto him providing for the family there should be no lies.
Are their other lies that you've caught him telling? It seems strange that he would make things up like he has. I wonder if he has had a past of negative consequences for telling the truth about "failures" or about forgetting things.
As far as th edivorce goe snot knowing either of you I put my self in your situation if some one keeps lying to me I can't trust them and therefore can't love them. So I probably wouldn't stay with hm in th elong run because you'll never be able to fully trust him.
Good luck in whatever you.

Ouch, this is a very rough spot to be in. Living with a chronic liar is dreadful, particularly because by the time they are mature adults, they are so used to doing it that they often lie even without thinking; it is just normal for them, and they can't stop doing it. So yes, if you stay with him, it is highly likely that this will be the pattern for the rest of your life: he will lie, you will catch him out, he will apologize and promise not to do it again, repeat ad nauseum.

The serious danger here is that your daughter, as she grows up, will quickly begin to notice what her father is doing, and that her mother more or less accepts his behavior (staying in a marriage with a liar essentially validates his behavior). So within a few years, you could find yourself with two liars on your hands.

I am sorry to say this, since I agree with you that two-parent households are more stable, but staying with him could ultimately be more damaging to your child than leaving him. I'm not sure how effective therapy is for correcting a fundamentally deceptive character; so far, it doesn't seem to be working for him. And the longer you wait, the more likely it is that your daughter will begin to pick up on and imitate her father's behavior.

Yes, divorce is very hard on a child. But living with a liar is corrosive, and can lead to other problems down the road. If he lies to you, who else is he lying to? The lying concerning his job and your health care coverage sounds very scary; this goes way beyond "white lies". His lying is putting you and your child at risk.

You could consider seeing a therapist yourself, to help guide you through this difficult time, and help you strategize as to how best to proceed. It's obvious that you want to do right by your daughter, and I think your instincts are pointing you in the right direction. I wish you well in this very difficult time.

S.,

This is undoubtedly a tough situation. My gut is to say that if you still love each other, you can work this out. I know you feel betrayed, and I'm sure you have some trust issues now, but if you truly do love him, the two of you will find a way to stay together. I don't think you should stay together simply because you believe that two-parent households are more stable, because in my opinion, unhappy households are worse than anything. But it sounds like you've found it in yourself to forgive him before, and if you feel that you can forgive him (I mean really forgive him), then there's hope yet. That said, I think it's important that you set some very clear boundaries about his lying, and be willing to follow through with the consequences if he oversteps those boundaries.

A few things to think about:

-Are you sure that he's completely truthful with his therapist? Does he/she know that he continues to lie to you?

-Would he be willing to let you go to one if his therapy sessions? Not that it should turn into a marriage counseling session, but just so that his therapist can see how his actions affect you and then have a better understanding of how to help him.

-Is it possible that he has an undiagnosed mood disorder? Are their other symptoms you've noticed that might indicate bipolar disorder or another similar disorder?

-I have found that in my own marriage, when my husband perceives me as the "mother" he tends to lie a bit (as he did to his own mother for many years). It is his way of rebelling against authority, and *I* am that authority. When he perceives me more as a confidante and friend, he doesn't lie at all. I guess this has to do with how I ask him to help out and what we spend our time talking about. Might something like this be going on with your husband, too?

Best of luck to you. This will be hard either way. Feel free to write me offlist if you want to chat more. It sounds like we have something in common.

Best,
J.

Hi S.:
I'm no psychologist, but I think that your husband is a pathalogical liar. If he can't be truthful about such things as putting on the cat's meds, then what else is he keeping from you? If it were my husband, I'd want to find out if there were any darker secrets before continuing the relationship...especially with finances. You can't mess with money matters. That's my advice. Sorry you are having so much difficulty and good luck with trying to work things out!

I agree with Doria. I don't think he'll ever change. The question is can you live with it. Your children will see it. How will you explain to them that it is wrong even though daddy does it. If you divorce than the kids see it is not okay yet they can still have contact with their loving father but understand that he has a serious problem and that you can never really believe what he says, ever. It will be a constant source of sorrow and hurt for both you and your children. I'm so sorry. Good luck.

sounds like he needs some hard core counceling... i dont know necessary leaving him but i do know he sounds like he needs some help. my concern would be him teaching his daughter this behaviour as children tend to do what they see.

M.

S.- I am a Christian, and i don't believe in divorce unless there was an affair and even that i think we need to work on it. If you talk to people who have been married for a long time then likely you are going to hear of their tough times and how it was worth sticking it out. I do believe somebody can change but that is thru having Jesus in their lives. I would strongly recommend you sticking it out, what love you could teach your child!!!

S.

Has your husband ever been evaluated for bi-polar disorder? My sister had the same problems with her husband - the lying, the job jumping, etc. and she finally gave him the ultimatum of either seeing a psychiatrist or checking in to a facility for an evaluation.

Once they put him on an antipsychotic (Seroquel), his behavior immediately changed. Things are much happier now.

I may or may not be impartial as I am in the process of divorcing a liar after 22 years. I too was married to a great guy who lied occasionally, I just didn't think that he lied to me about the big stuff. Things I have learned through marriage counseling and the divorce process are that you can't change someone who doesn't want to change. My ex is a compulsive liar, in fact he led a double life for about 7 years. I never caught that he was lying because he honestly believes the lies. Needless to say I found out about the affairs and the lying and after months of therapy and believing that it would get better, here I sit. I can't tell you what to do, just like none of my well meaning friends and family could tell me. I can say, look at what your life will be like in 10 or 15 years with him, will the lies progress, will they become more hurtful? Where do you see yourself at that point? When you find these answers you'll know what you want/should do. Also, remember what message you want to send to your child. For me, lying isn't okay and my boys needed to know that. Hope this helps. Jo

Wow S. - so sorry you have to go through this. It really sounds like your husband has an illness. The things he lies about are so bizarre. While yes that is very difficult to live with, would you leave him if he had a heart defect that made him difficult to live with? I think he really needs a full evaluation to find out what's going on. I would stick it out for a while longer as long as he is willing to seek help which it seems like he is. Also - keep in mind since you have a little girl, he will always be in your life and it may even be more difficult to deal with the lying when not together. What kinds of things would he find to lie about in the process of divorce or having to do with the care of your little girl? Just some ideas - being the devil's advocate. Good luck though, I think you have a hard road ahead of you.

I suggest you see one Licensed Clinical Social Worker for marital therapy and individual counseling (at least for him). That way, the LCSW is familiar with the total picture and will be able to better help. If you are able, try to find an LCSW certified from the Gottman Institute of Marital Therapy. He or she will be best equipped to help you. Lies undermine the relationship. Trust is the foundation of a sound marriage. Lying is motivated by fear. What is he afraid of? Afraid you'll leave him? Just remember, divorce usually creates more problems than it solves. Because you have a child together, you are joined with this man forever, so it may be better to try and work it out.

I would get out of the relationship S.. If he is lying about such mundane things like flea dip for the cats imagine the bigger lies he has told or will tell. He could get your family into a bad situation or even rub off on your daughter eventually.
2 parent households are typically ideal when raising a family but certainly not necessary. Especially if one of the parents is a chronic liar. I would listen to your family and friends and call it quits.
Good Luck
S

Wow! I certainly feel for you.

I don't think there's an easy or quick solution here. In my opinion, I think you should give your husband an ultimatum. Stop lying or it's over. Is the therapy just general therapy or is the person he's seeing someone who specializes in lying? I would want to be sure that the therapist specializes in this and that your husband is also being tested for mental disorders.

If it gets to be too much, even though he's being treated, you may want to consider a trial separation. Maybe you and your duaghter not being there will make the difference if the therapy isn't doing the trick.

From the sounds of it, there's really no rhyme or reason to why he lies. It must be hard to live that way, not knowing if he's telling truth or not.

I wish you well.

Hi S.- Hard place to be in. I truly believe in working your hardest through tough situations. Marriage is not something you enter in lightly and it should not be something you get out of lightly either. Perhaps you could go to therapy WITH him. DId he have this cronic lying problem before you got married? Have you asked anyone in his past before? It does not sound like these are manipulative lies but lies out of embarressment. These might be issues you can work through together. Perhaps he feels like he can not live up to your expectations? Do not know, these are just thoughts. Either way, in the end you have to feel SAFE and Secure for your well-being as well as your daughters.

Good luck to you.

Hi S.,
I am sorry you are through such a hard time but if you and your husband love each other it worth trying a while longer. It sounds to me like your husband might have childhood issues. All the lies sound like he is just scared to be open (like a child who lies so he does not get scolded). All the situations you mentioned are ones in which he could expect to get a scolding from you - maybe he fears your disapproval. Of course the extended lying is taking the desire to win your approval a bit far but... I know nothing about you but is it possible that you are very hard on him when you find out that he has goofed up on something. Or were his parents like that? While it is hard to live with this behavior (though it is good for yogini practice!) if you decide to stick on you must also realistically keep in mind that as hard as both of you might try, he might never manage to change. If you can love him in spite of that, then stick on.
All the best.

The thing that scares me is what if he lies about something to do with your baby,like he didnt give her tylenol if he did,or vise versa.....and the health ins thing...WHAT!!!!????Is your daughter on this "insurance"i dont know S.,im sorry but, I think its time to go,for your saftey and your little girl.Good Luck

Hi S.,
I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. It must be awful! It is a good thinh he is in therapy, but it sounds like your husband is a pathological liar. The scary thing is - what lies has he told that you DON'T know about? I guess you have to ask yourself: can you trust him?
Having a child together certainly makes the decision to separate complicated...it has to be your decision.
That being said - if it was me, I would RUN FOR THE HILLS.
I wish you only the best - feel free to send me a private email if you need someone to talk to.
:)
J.

He's a pathological liar and probably doesn't even realize he's doing it at first until his has to lie to cover up his other lies. HE needs therapy and counseling (medication??) as well as your couples therapy. If he truly loves you and wants to keep you, he will do whatever it takes to get help, but the first step is for HIM to admit he needs help.

S.,

Wow! How frustrating. He truly does sound like a loving partner and father, but this must be impossible to live with. He truly sounds pathologic. You all are doing the right things: couple counseling and individual counseling for him.

One thing for sure I would call him on the confabulations immediatly when I am aware of them. I would let him know that although you are not a psychiatrist or psychologist and you do not understand the root of this problem, that you will not be played for a fool and are insulted and embarassed by his "stories".

Obviously, there is some psychological root for his behavior. It is probably exacerbated by anxiety. The next time he is in the middle of one of his stories, be frank with him; stop him and say "stop, you are beginning to fabricate, what is going on. what are you feeling?" He may be embarassed and get angry, but if he is really trying to control his behavior and save his family relationships then he might just expose himself. If he does, listen nonjudgmentally and don't change the conversation back to how the lying makes you feel. Keep the conversation about him. You could even, with his permission, share these episodes with his therapist. The behavior seems somewhat obsessive, compulsive and he might benefit from medication.

As far as your continuing the relationship, that, of course, is a very personal decision. I would recommend individual therapy for yourself as well to help cope with this situation.

Best Wishes
J. L.

I think sometimes that divorce is used too easily (not judging you - I swear). I dont agree with his lying by any means but if you are still in love and have a happy marriage otherwise.......

Do you call him out when he lies? Why do you "let him" continue lying for so long (ie: months at a time)? Why not - when you find out he is exaggerating or overemphasizing on these lies..... call him out on it. "No that didnt happen" and when he continues the story in his defense..... REPEAT "No, that didnt happen either". ETC.

I agree with another mom who said that you should be attending these therapy sessions with him for 2 reasons
1) Making sure he is actually going &
2) You need the help of a therapist as well for the fact that you need a professionals advice on how to handle this situation with out taking the chance that he could react badly to it or it resulting in divorce (unless you truly want it).

I really dont think its fair to give advice on this (although I just did) but divorce is a personal decision and its not fair for anyone to tell you to leave your husband with out being in your shoes.

I sincerely wish you luck on this and hope in the end your family is happy and better for it. :)

Hi S.,
I am in total agreement with Doria. It's not a good situation for your child.
My opinion is to leave that relationship!

S., it doesn't sound like it gets better with him, only worse. I dated a fella who much the same way and it turned out that he was bipolar. Has he been diagnosed with this? He may just be a pathological liar, which isn't any better. The real question is, do you want your daughter to grow up thinking that lying about everything is acceptable? If she's in that situation constantly, she will begin to think it's`ok for her to do, too. Love is an amazing thing, but it will only go so far. You need to decide if this is ever going to change. If not, then he needs to go. Good luck to you, luv. I wish you only the best.

Hi S.,
Oh, Honey. I know you love this man, but sometimes that's not enough to make you and your little girl a safe, stable, and happy life. Do you want to live the rest of your life doubting whatever he says? And who takes care of your finances? If he does, you will never know just how little you have in the bank.
I worked with, and was a loyal friend to, a pathological liar just like he is. This woman could be very charming and likeable, and she was very intelligent too. But the lies she told with absolute conviction made me doubt my own sanity. She used her lies to manipulate everyone she came in contact with. From your description, your husband does the same thing, right down to the playacting.(Did you actually see the number he dialed? Did you speak with the bank person yourself? It could ALL have been an act.) Eventually this woman lied to, screwed, and burnt EVERYONE she came in contact with in her personal AND business life, so none of us wanted to have ANYTHING to do with her! After she destroyed THREE marriages in nine years and devastated all her exes emotionally,she moved to Hawai`i where no one knew her to get away from the mess she had made.
S., if you stay with him, you will end up doubting your own sanity.You will never trust him with any answer. His mind is sick, and he needs more help than you can ever give him.But that is not your problem, it is his. And as we know, pathological liars have a way of turning everything around so it is ALWAYS someone else's fault when they mess up or get caught in their lies.
Is he REALLY getting therapy? If he is, it doesn't seem to be helping!
The bottom line is, real love is built on truth, not lies. If you really love someone, you don't lie to them or try to manipulate them.THere is a really good chance he will NEVER change.He also could be using some sort of drug and hiding that too. You will never know for sure.
Honey, my advice for you and your daughter's sanity and happiness is to GET OUT ~ NOW!! Save yourself and your daughter from a life of doubt and heartache! As painful as it may be at first, go speak to a lawyer, and get a divorce NOW, so you can begin living a normal , happy life. ONLY after you are out of it, you'll see just how crazy it really has been.
Sending big hugs, and wishing you nothing but the best,
a Mom and Grandma

hi S.. i think what it all comes to is if you feel there is anything to salvage. has his lying changed the way you feel about him? look at you life five years from now and see if you like what you see. i have struggled with this topic myself after having been married for 8 yrs and falling into the hum drums of marriage. when there are children involved it makes any type of decision much more difficult. you have to look at it from that point of view as well. if he can really change, that is great, but if not, how will this eventually effect your daughter if he continues on this path. i guess my greatest worry for you would be if the lies start to just get bigger and bigger and more serious. it could affect every aspect of your life. i know the idea of being a single mom is scary, i know i have thought about it myself, but honestly i think you need to do what you feel will make you and your daughter happy. if you think he can honestly change then it is worth it again to try it out. K.:) Sat at home mom of two little girls (almost 4 and 20 mos) with home based business

Have you gone to therapy together? Are you sure he's making his appointments?

What are stupid little lies today might become a big deal in the future. What do you really have if trust is missing from the foundation of your marriage? Honestly, would you be second-guessing yourself if there wasn't a child involved?

Dear S.
I am by no means an expert but do have some life experience. I am married with 3 kids ages 19, 16 and 10 and married still to their father. Life and marriage are an ongoing challenge and you never know what the future holds. You need a husband that is an asset to you and your family and someone who you can rely on in difficult times. If you are confident that you're husband is the man, then go for it. If you're not sure, get yourself in therapy as well as being in couples therapy to try to come to a decision. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. Your daughter will do fine with any decision you make as long it is what you feel is the best one. Keep in mind that people are who they are and don't really change. The things I didn't like about my husband when we first got married are now things that I still don't like and they sometimes annoy me more now than before. Best of luck to you.

S.,

It sounds like he has some kind of mental illness. For the sake of your daughter he deserves another chance only if he wants to change. If he is willing to admit he has a problem and he is willing to do the therapy and the work then you could give him another chance. Set a time period that you want to give him to work this out and see what happens... maybe 2-3 months. If he lies again then just leave because it sounds bad enough that it could ruin your life and your daughter's.

Good Luck and let us know how you are doing.
Allie

I'm so very sorry for what you are going through. Unfortunately, this is a choice that you have to make on your own. You are the one that has to live with the choice, so it has to be yours.

I went through the deciding to stay or go years ago. My cousin asked me, "If there were a disaster/world was going to end would you want to be with him?" If your answer is yes, then you want to figure a way to work through this. If your answer is no, then you know what you want to do.

Another thing I learned, you can't change people. They are who they are and unless they want to change, they won't.

Good luck!

what does the marriage councilor say? Lets ask you this, do you feel he can change? People are capable of change but they have to want to . When I first met my husband he was into fast cars, drinking and you can think of other things . He wanted to change his ways and hes now the best father to our kids (hands down). If you feel deep down he can work it out, stick with him. If you feel he'll never change maybe you should separate. Youre only 28 years old. You have your whole life(and daughters life) ahead of you. Good luck, we'll be thinking of you.

is the therapy working are yuou in therapy also waht does your therapist say.... soem people are just pathological liars and i guess if he lying about stupid stuff do you call him on it or jsut ignore he maybe trying to get your attention like a kid maybe if you ignore it it will stop no attention ....i couldn't tolerate that how it is affecting your daughter that is not a very good role model that he is setting. i always in favor of working things out so i would suggest more counseling and discuss the effect it will have on your daughter ... that may hit a nerve K.

Hi S.,
I don't blame you for your concerns. You husband's behavior is definitely off. I would leave him because you never know when one of his lies is going to really hurt your and/or your daughter. But you should also consider a couple of other things. I would suggest first going with him to his physician and have him checked for any physical reasons for the lying. Some tumors in the brain can cause people to believe things that aren't true. It's rare, but from what I understand they really believe these things. You should go with him and talk to the doctor yourself-I wouldn't trust him to get the story right.

If there is no physical reason for this, he may just be a compulsive liar (this is more likely) and is unable to stop. In this case I would suggest counseling for you alone for help in dealing with his lying. Finally, if all else fails, I would probably leave him.

Yikes S.! You sound like a smart well rounded person who is wasting her time on a shmuck! I dated a guy who was a compulsive liar, and my brother in law has some majoy lying problems and it drives me crazy! Honesty is so important, in all things big and small. How can you trust him? I'm sorry but I don't know if I would stick around! Don't you think there is a great guy out there who would take care of you better? I guess it depends on how much you love him, how invested you feel. I would stick by my husband no matter what, we have that kind of an agreement where we have decided we are in this together whatever comes our way, but I would put my foot down and confront him if anything weird started happening. I'm not sure but good luck!

WOW!!! Thats just odd! I would suggest you get out now , you are young and smart!! You cant live like that... those lies could hurt you in some way , if they havent already! I know you love him but its just not worth living your life like that !! You have to think if you stay, your whole rest of your life he could just keep lying, who wants to live like that???!!

Hi S., I was in a similar situation, my ex was controlling, verbally abusive, and lied all the time. He also was addicted to pain meds. My question is does your husband have a drinking or drug problem? If not than he may have a type of mental illness were they lie and don't know it I don't know the name for it. My opinion is he is this way now what makes you think he is going to change. I left my ex husband three times and each time I went back was promised things would change. It never happened!!!1 I have been seperated for nine months and go to court next week to try to finalize this divorce. I feel so much better out of that situation. I do have a three year old boy so this was very hard for him but he has adjusted quite well. Personally I think life is too short you need to be happy!!!! L.

You must get out of the marriage. I am married to a very similiar man and have gone through this for 19 years. He sounds exectly like my husband.Pathological lying is like a disease.

If I was younger and in a better financial place I would divorce my husband. My biggest regret in life is that I married him and have endured a marriage that is based on lies. You deserve better, please move on, he will not stop.

This guy sounds so much like my sister's ex husdand. He would lie about EVERYTHING!! It didn't matter how small the issue. She is so much happier now that she divorced him. She still has to put up with some stuff because of the children, but she is so much happier.
You have our prayers.
M.

I am a 46 year old former wife of a man much like your husband. Unfortunately there are people who continue to lie no matter how much counselling or help they get. After 20 years and a number of tries for the kids my life is free of him. Had I had the courage to leave it wuld have saved my kids the final blow of him leaving us for a lonely "widow" he said he was counselling over the internet. He is her problem now and still hasn't changed. If it was me in your shoes again I would get out while you can before the lies really hurt you or worse your child. Who wants their kids thinking its accepatable to lie like that?Sometimes people lie so much thy forget what the truth really is.

Do you really love him? He sounds like he needs serious professional help. Would he do that, and even go on some psyc meds to keep your marriage alive? This sounds very serious. I would make him address it or get out, for the sake of your child. This is not about you. It's about what he'll do to keep you and his baby in his life in a healthy way.

Good luck!

Wow, this situation sounds so tough to deal with, I'm sorry you're having to go through this. My only thoughts are - 1. are you in contact wiht his therapist? What is his/her thoughts on his diagnosis and possibility for recovery? The reason for why he's doing it might be the key to figuring out if he's able to stop. 2. Can you approach the lying as a problem that you and he together work on with help from the therapist. 3. If the therapist isn't helping - find another that specializes in this sort of behavioral issue.
As far as if you should get a divorce or stay married - only you can decide if dealing with the lies are worse than losing a loving relationship.
Good luck, M. A.

9 years is along time invested,and with that much time it must be impossible to think of yourself without your husband.It seems to me that the problems lie with him.I think that people that lie are typically not happy with themselves,it seems as though he may need to do some work on himself.Maybe if he's willing to get to the root of his insecurities the marriage could be salvaged.The lie about work was huge and it may just have been due to the fact he was embarassed,admitting he was fired may have just been too embarassing for him,he may have also felt as though he was letting you down.If the lying is habitual I would leave because the trust is broken.If he's willing to lie about things such as advantage..what else?In the end you must follow your heart,but follow your heart with some logic.I work in the mental health field so I could really analyze this all day,I know it wasn't really an answer just food for thought.

S.,
I am so sorry for you. I can't imagine my husbad lying to me about anything- Trust is so important. want worries me are the small lies & the act of keep ing the lie going. I just read this to my husband & asked what he would do. He said leave. Of course only you can decide that. You didn't say what your friends advice was? I wish you well And send you strength to get throught this.

Well, obviously he does not want to do these thing if he is going for help. I would go to another counselor and he should see a psychiatrist. My husband lies but they are the selfish lies so that he doesnt have to deal with the truth. They are the lies that make life more convenient for him (he got a check that he spent and never told me, he tells me he is going one place and goes another) I could go on and on. The lies you are talking about sound more compulsive and yes, psychotic. He NEEDS to see a psychiatrist, maybe even get on some meds.
I too believe in both parents being around, but I also think in a way I should have divorced my husband by now because he just plain stinks as a husband, but my kids adore him and I take them to church and teach them right from wrong the best I can.
If your husband is great in every other way and you still love eachother....get him to a shrink as fast as you can. If he has already been to one, get another. These lies are very bizarre, not just the typical idiot guy lies.
Good Luck

S.,
I wish you the best, and I also wish I could write a more lengthy response. But my two points are

1. He is clearly mentally ill, and does need real help. You should make sure you know everything about your finances. If you want to make a life with him, he will need to get better, and that can take a long time, even with all the support in the world. But make sure you're physically and financially secure! If you do decide to leave, make sure you have a plan for how to support yourself and your daughter. Make sure he doesn't have access to your credit cards and bank account if you believe he might steal from you.

2. Divorce does not fix very many things! He will still be the father of your child, and presumably (I very much hope) that he will be in your daughter's life. It would be very unfair and very sad for her to lose him, and even if that is what you personally want, it is unlikely for the court to cut him out without any custody or visitation unless he's dangerous. However, when you're divorced, you will have even less control over the circumstances when she is with him. You will almost certainly be much less well off financially. You will still have to deal with him regularly at least until your daughter is 18.

Because you work in the field that you do (as I do as well) have you considered what your husband is getting out of these "stories" that he makes up? If he does not have mental health issues there must be a reason why he is doing this-some reinforcement that he gets that he could be getting another way if it was further explored. I hope your counselor has tried to get to the root of your husband's behavior. Before you end things it seems like you should at least know why he does it and then maybe you can work on the trust issues that you have now because of his deceit. Good luck to you both!

I would not stay married, even thought that is a hard thing to do. You mention the word "psychotic" and is that really the "stable" household you mentioned wanting? If there is a question whether or not someone is psychotic, then something needs to change. That being said, I feel that if you are married to someone they need to be your partner and equal. How can you trust someone when they are weaving intricate small and large lies? And how far is he willing to go to protect these lies? You need to protect yourself and your child. Love is not the only glue to bind a marriage...trust and support and safety are other factors. Sometimes the best choices are also the most difficult ones. I'm sure you know what you need to do, and I can understand how hard it must be. But life is short and beautiful...there is no room for such negative things. I wish you much strength and love!

I just read your posting... I know you've already received 86 responses and probably don't need my two cents, but here goes... If you were my friend, I would say to you: once you separate and if you are sharing custody, be careful with your husband telling lies concerning your daughter. Sounds like he has a legit problem and I'd hate to see him start telling stories (harmless or not) that concern your daughter. (for example, why he was late dropping her off, picking her up, etc.) Best of luck to you. I hope you get over this mega life hurdle and find true happiness.

you work in social services, you see the trends that become personalities, that become lifestyles. this man does not hold any value in honesty, nor will he ever. do you want your baby girl to have the same values? get out.