Need Help Correcting a Bad Sleep Situation

I agree with Suz that it's surprising that so many people are saying just to suck it up and CIO, given your clearly stated beliefs. I also thought it was hilarious the woman who sent you your own post as a warning against what could happen if you AP too much....!

Look, your son is not getting enough sleep and you know that. The situation is already untenable, and it simply will explode when the new baby comes. I am kind of amused that we're all taking it as some kind of actual timetable, that the baby is coming in two weeks; unless you're having a scheduled cesarean, I imagine this means you're at about 38 weeks now and that means any day now, or not for up to a month. Which is to say, a lot of this is already out of your immediate control.

If you just let it go, the likelihood is that you will find yourself doing some kind of CIO simply because logistics will dictate that: you only have so many arms, and if you're coping with more than one child, then sometimes someone is going to cry. That's reality. So, if you really don't want to do CIO and you really do want to try and get a handle on this before the baby comes (assuming you don't deliver in the next few days, which is totally possible), then you are going to have to do some serious work on your own, you are going to have to take control and you are going to have to parent your kid.

It's not time for tough love on him, it's time for tough love on you, hon.

This means: the phone ringing after 6pm must go. Take whatever nesting instincts and energy you have going on right now and get yourself to Best Buy NOW and find a solution. You have no choice: you MUST arrange for the phone to stop ringing after 6pm. Whether that means it blinks red when someone is calling in, or it forwards to a vibrating cell phone, or whatever. Find a solution, take one of the many suggestions you've been given, and get it done.

This also means: you figure out and write down a schedule that works for you. Now. Sit down, and write it out. At 13 mos with A. 8am wake time, you can fudge his bedtime as late as 8pm, but that's it. So you backtrack from there: in bed by 7:30, stories/songs/snuggle at 7, bath/PJs/teeth at 6:30, dinner at 5:30/5:45, afternoon nap over by 3pm, etc. etc.... Write out a schedule and stick to it. Get some discipline and make your son's sleep and your son's schedule your absolute priority.

If I were you, feeling as you do about CIO and with #2 as imminent as he is, I would focus on these two things. I would get the sleeping arrangements manageable (meaning that there aren't obvious and avoidable things like the telephone interfering with sleep) and I would get my son on a schedule and get his sleep cycles under control. For now, I would not worry about ~how~ he goes to sleep, but more ~when~ he goes to sleep, and how much he sleeps. He NEEDS his sleep, and you need him to sleep if you want to maintain your sanity during the coming months. And, once he's on a regular, realistic schedule that is actually in tune with his body's needs, then you will be in a better position to address the rocking vs. crying debate. Once he knows what is coming, he will be better able to understand what you're asking of him. It actually sounds like the transition will not be too bad, once he's on a schedule. (You may want to check out Elizabeth Pantley's book, The No-Cry Sleep Solution, but only if you have time after you've addressed your primary issues.)

I'm sorry to sound so dire and so forceful, but you've been putting out posts and asking for help and trying to get your head around this stuff for weeks now, and the deal is, you must cope. You must take this situation and actually make it tenable. You must ensure that your oldest son is getting the sleep he needs so that he can have the internal resources to handle the complete world-change that's about to hit him. You can't keep blaming AP for what's going on. You can't keep saying you know what's wrong but can't do anything about it. You can't keep hitting a wall and asking people to tell you what to do and then hitting that same wall again because you're being ruled by inertia.

Or rather, you ~can~ do these things, but if you just keep running in circles like this, nothing is going to change. And you are in for a very rude awakening, I'm afraid.

I say this with compassion, not judgment. I hope you can hear that. I wish you the best. I have been in similar shoes to yours, and your road is going to be rough, but I know that if you cope, if you find the resources to actually address your issues, you're going to come out of this like a champ.

good luck,
K.

Hi C.,
I am really feeling for you. You have your hands full already, and with baby #2 coming, well...it's gonna get really tough.
First, your husband needs to get a phone with a vibrate or flash option, this is a must for your family's comfort and peace!
Second, I've read and responded to some of your other posts. Please think about what you consider "attachment" parenting. I breastfed my kids around the clock for one and a half to two years each, co-slept with them, carried them in slings and backpacks and I never let one of them cry for more than 10 minutes or so IF IT COULD BE HELPED. The thing is, there will be times when your child will cry, be unhappy, be uncomfortable, whatever. Teaching them to self soothe is NOT cruel, it is essential to their health and well being. Although your child seems like the most important thing in the world (and of course he is, to you!) the truth is the world does not (and should not) stop for him. You are going to be so exhausted after the arrival of your second child, you need to cut yourself some slack. If your husband doesn't get it then he needs to spend a few hours a day with the kids while you go for a walk or take a nap or whatever. I really do wish you the best of luck :)

I would guess he is way overtired. Our son is the same age and goes to bed between 6 and 7 and sleeps over 12 hours. We were waiting a long time to put him down as well and we had some HORRIBLE nights. He will fall asleep on his own in the crib after lots of hugs and kisses. He doesn't fuss, we have music in the room, he's tired and wants to sleep. I would try much earlier if it were me. Just my opinion.

Take it from someone who didn't use schedules well with her first, you need to get one set up and fast, and put your newborn on it around 4 months. I read the sleep book by Weissbluth for my second, and it really helped. 1 and 1/2 hours after he got up in the morning, he went down for his first nap. For the first year, he would be up for 2 to 3 hours and then go back down, then up for 2 to 3 hours and down. He would get 3 naps a day and to bed around 645 at night. Around a year, we still did the first nap around 1 1/2 hours after he first got up, but I scheduled both him and my 3 yr old to nap at the same time at 1P so I could get some sanity, then they both went down around 630 or 7 at night. What a difference it made. You seem to know what needs to be done, but you give a lot of excuses about why you can't do it. Either your kids will have to get used the phone ringing, or your husband needs to either get a cell phone that isn't so loud (or with vibrate feature), or he needs to move his office to the living room (it is where my office is). I'm sure he would love to have his own office, wouldn't we all, but sometimes you have to make some sacrifices to have happy, healthy children, and without sleep, you will not have happy healthy children. Midnight, and even 9P is too late for a young child to go to bed and sleep brings on sleep. The more tired they are, the more they wake in the night, and the earlier they will get up.

This is tough and I hope it will resolve soon.
You write that you now have a consistent bedtime routine which is the key to good sleep habits. It will promote sleep, self-shooting and not needing you around anymore to fall asleep (which will be needed when you will have a second one to take care of)
Whatever time your son will go to sleep, he will always get up early. Even if the day light isn't a problem in the room, he can still "feel" it's morning. (that's why people working at night don't get the best possible sleep). he can hear more activity around, whether the neighbors in the shower, more cars in the streets or birds singing. So, you need to have him sleeping earlier at night (8 or 9 would be ideal). As some moms suggested, try lowering the phone ring volume, have it on vibrating mode, or have your fiance wear headsets. The fan is good, too. I'm surprised that the phone still wakes him up because babies are known to get used to regular noises (like phone or bell ringing) very fast and not awakening for it after a few exposure.
In brief; try to have him sleep earlier, and try to go to sleep earlier to, as you will need your energy when the second one comes.

I understand your not wanting him to cry it out but that all depends on what you consider crying it out. What i do with my kids is at some point you need to be able to do the bed time simple. It should be simple eating dinner, taking a bath getting a book and going to bed. With my son who is about 1yr also this is what i did. I went in at bedtime and rocked him a while and put him to bed. Most the time he will just lay down when i lay him down and turn on music or he sees a toy he likes. I keep toys in his bed he likes that are safe for him. I don't require him to go to sleep but i do require him to lay down when i first leave. If he gets up after i lay him down and start yelling i set my timer for 5min. At 5min i go in and lean over and hug him and say "No no" not meanly. I lay him down and say "Lay down it's time to sleep" "I love you" night night. than i leave. I don't show emotion at all. Than i set the alarm for 5 more min. if in 5min he's still yelling i go back in and repeat. The first night it took about 1hr for him to give up and go to sleep. Don't give in to any noises you might think are life threatening. Before you leave the first time make sure there are no toys that can hurt him. Make sure your right about it being safe so any noises are not real. Kids learn quickly that gagging noises make you come quickly or any other noise. I sware in a few days it will stop completly. My two it took 2 nights each about 1 1/2 hours max. Now the both sleep through the night with no trouble.

The office next door shouldn't be a prob your son will learn to sleep through it. But you have to be firm and not accept anything less than what you want. Children do what is expected of them. If you expect trouble you will get it. We have a very loud bird in the next room at our house. Don't stop the ring contine on with what your doing despite it. Ignore it. Your child will learn from you to do the same... If you need more help feel ree to email me. I have done childcare out of my house. ____@____.com
Good luck

Take these two weeks to correct the habits that you created. If you don't respond to the baby's protests for 3 days, it will break his habit once and for all. Be consistent or you all will be cranky and feeling too tired to care.

A big help will be in finding a way for your husband to respond to phone calls after their bedtime without waking up the babies (or you). That's crutial. Check in with radio shack or those websites that sell phone eqpt for the people that can't hear. Do they have a phone that will flash a big red light on it or on the wall? Or one that will vibrate a lot under his pillow if he goes to bed earlier than midnight? They should have options for you. Would love to hear the solutions you decide to use. Good for you for researching this!

Okay.....Yes, your child / baby need more sleep. I understand it is hard trying to get a schedule but that is what is best for you and your child. I would start with a bath around 7 and then start unwinding his day. He should really be in bed at 8 to get the sleep he needs. You may have to spray his pillow with a little lavender to help settle him down and calm him to help him sleep better but do not use to much.
I am sorry but look, I have 5 kids and NEVER have they EVER been to bed between 6 or 7. That is too early and then they don't get to spend enoughtime with the father. I not saying I agree with the midnight thing either but I can tell you it will be hard getting him on a schedule but it will be worth it. Get this new on on a schedule as soon as you can too. I don't want you to use the excuse of now that the baby is here it is to hard to sit to DS#1 schedule because my babies were 10 1/2 months apart. :) Hey check out my blog: themoderndaywonderwoman.blogspot.com if you ever need a laugh!

The phone - turn it down or get one that flashes instead of rings. It might cost you a few dollars, but his sleep and your sanity is worth it.

He is going to have to learn to self comfort - I think I may have told you this before... CIO is harder for you than it is for him. It will get worse before it gets better. Just grit your teeth and get through it. Wait 5 min. and then pat his back and leave. Do it again and again and again. It's not pleasant.

You created this mess and you'll get yourself out of it. You've made your mistakes and you have learned so the second baby won't have the same issues...

It's time to be the parent. It's the hardest job - especially when you are fixing a mistake you made. You are not your child's friend... you are the Mom. It's so hard to listen to them cry, but sometimes you need to be tough. Learn to be tough now, because when they are teenagers you can't just turn the tough on... If you want good kids - you need to learn to be tough when they are little - you need them to respect you now so that they will continue to respect you later.
YMMV
LBC

Could you have your fiance put his phone on vibrate, or at least turn the volume way down? Then work on moving your son's bedtime to A. earlier time. If you all start getting more sleep, life will be much easier, and you will need that with a little one on the way. Of course you already know that. ;-)

i'm a little surprised that so many folks are advocating CIO when you have made it clear that's not A. option in your family. it sounds as if you have been doing very well, not 'creating a problem', as your son often falls asleep when he's been put to bed awake, and puts himself back to sleep often as well. good for you!
i agree with the suggestions to get alternatives to ringing for the phone. that one step will solve your main problem, and allow you to put both babies to bed earlier.
even without CIO it may take a little time to get into a new schedule. i recommend that rather than holding him until he's groggy, that you establish a good solid routine (bath, book, snuggle) then lie him down awake and sit with him, not interacting much, maybe humming and rubbing his back. your presence will soothe him but leave your hands free. the main thing is to keep any interaction, even eye contact, to a minimum. he is figuring out that once the bedtime routine is complete, there is no more playing/talking/doing things with mom.
this may be something that you need to work on after the new baby comes. whatever schedule you get into this late in the game will obviously be disrupted as your family gets used to its new dynamic, and two weeks would be time to get him used to a bedtime routine under most circumstances but a new baby is going to rock everything anyway.
i would actually reverse the cradle thing, hold the new baby and rock the older one.
the main things are to work on a phone solution, and get your son used to being put to bed without being held. the one is relatively simple, the other is do-able too but you may be in for a bit of A. adjustment period before you can really implement it.
good luck!
khairete
S.

Definitely sounds like he is over tired! It's good that you have a routine now, that will help. I think you should try to do something about the late night phone calls. Does your husband have a cell phone? Can those calls go to his cell phone instead so not to wake up your son? It's probably not going to be easy but I would definitely try getting him to bed earlier and getting him to go to sleep without you having to hold him. It is only going to make things more difficult when you have your second baby if you don't correct it. Try getting your younger one on a good schedule as soon as you can too. I started a routine at 4 weeks with my son and it worked amazingly and has for the past 2 years! Good Luck with everything!!

Try turning the phone down a bit, so if it rings, it's not as loud.....Sounds like you need more space, especially with another one almost here.
Congrats on the new one too.
You are going to have to be consistant and let him know his hours.....try putting him in bed and just patting his bottom or rubbing his back......instead of holding him.......
Good luck.

.

I would say:
1. Turn down the phone ringer (my son actually sleeps through so much more than I would expect). You can also get a sound machine.
2. Put him to bed earlier so that he is getting a full 12 hours. Move it gradually by about 15-30 minutes every few days.
3. Put some cuddle time into your nighttime routine. You say that you have a routine, but if you know that he needs to be held, but can go down himself if held, try to hold him before setting him into his crib. You can gradually decrease this time as he learns to put himself down.

Good luck!

My son has beep on his own since he was a baby. Recently he does not want to sleep without someone there and he has pulled every trick in the book. 1e had to do some tough love to help him develop his independence. We put him to bed and said that we would leave his door open if he does not cry. For three days he cried. On the 4th and every consecutive day he has not cried. I will warn that the first night he cried for over 2 hours. He is very stubborn but better now.
I would have your son checked for reflux too, just incase that is the reason he is having trouble laying down.

I was in your shoes. Our first two boys are only 1 yr and 2 weeks apart. I had the same problem, only I had him going to sleep early, but he was use to being rocked to sleep by me or daddy. When it was close for our second to join us, I decided it was time our #1 had to be able to fall asleep on his own. My husband worked nights, so on one of his 3 night weekends, I started it all. I had the whole night routine down, it was just that I added about A. hour before bed, we would sit on the couch for "quiet/calm down time". We would cuddle and watch a movie or his cartons for the most A. hour, then it was bed time. If he fell asleep on the couch, great, if not then I did the CIO. Now this really hurt me hear him cry, but I knew it was for the best. I never let him cry for more than 10 min though. It took about three days he understood, I had time w/ mommy, now its bed time. They are 3 and 4 now w/ #3 due in July and we still do the hour before bed we all snuggle on the couch and then off to bed. Oh, bed time is at 8 or 9 depending on what is going on that day. Also could you find a way to make the phone quieter somehow?? We also lived in a 2 bedroom apartment at first. Could you find another place?? I know its hard and what not, but we were able to find a 3 bedroom townhouse for rent, for the same price we were paying for the 2 br apartment. Maybe its something you could look into. Good luck and congrats on your new addition.

Hi C.. I can sympathize with this dilemma. When my kids were little, my husband was sick and he couldn't sleep, so we had them on a late sleep schedule so that when he finally fell asleep, they wouldn't wake him up two hours later. Everyone criticized us, because they wouldn't adjust for school, but they did and now they sleep at 8:00 at the latest and get up at 6:00. My advice for changing a sleep schedule is simple -- wear him out. The day you want to push his schedule back, even if he didn't get enough sleep the night before, take him to the park, pool, etc. and let him run and climb and swim (swimming is the best) until he is exhausted, then get him to eat something filling quickly before he crashes in the car. Take him home just before bedtime and if you aren't carrying him in asleep, go through with the routine. The next day, be consistent so that you get him on a routine. And repeat the wear out -- routine pattern until you get his bedtime where you want it to be. You can do it in two weeks. Almost everyone I know who has kids (esp. boys) who they can't get to sleep before midnight or 1:00 a.m. has high energy boys and they live in A. apartment. I am not expert, but as a mother of one of those boys and having lived in A. apartment when he was little, I had to make a big effort for him to get enough physical outside playtime in every day (park, museum, zoo, pool -- we practically lived at the YMCA ) or you get a kid who is mentally tired and grumpy, but not physically tired, which means they just wind up instead of down. I know it's hard to do this when you are pregnant or with a newborn, but at least it's springtime and you will be able to take your newborn outside with you and your son in a sling or stroller.