Living in "Time Out"

If my daughter acted up and we were somewhere I would give her a warning that we would leave and then did it the one time she pushed it to far so we left a meal at a restaraunt and walked out pretty much without eating. Made a big impression and she was much better behaved in public. So even at the zoo I'd be ready to leave. Sucks for everyone so you might want to set up some smaller but fun outings for this so it doesn't seem like a waste.

You have to find the right balance between redirection and time outs ... it appears to me that time out is NOT working here.

Hmmm... well he is 2.5 years old.
With each age-stage, there are different cognitive developments.
So, what is expected... may not be what the child can do all the time perfectly each time. Kids this age, do not have perfectly attuned or developed deductive or inductive reasoning. They don't think in terms of 10 steps ahead of their action. Nor do they have perfect hindsight. And at this age they do not have fully developed impulse-control nor fully developed emotions or communication.

Sure, at this age rules and boundaries and routines, are taught.
But kids also make mistakes. Childhood. And sometimes they don't even know they are making a mistake.
And mistakes versus on purpose disobedience or defiance, are two different things. So discern that.

Sometimes, time outs are not effective. Or the kid gets desensitized to it.
But yes, consistency is important.

A kid, goes through each day with being told "No" a lot. It must be frustrating.
But along with teaching them "no"... it is also important to talk with them about things. And per their age and what they can understand.
For example: what if your Husband ALWAYS told you "no" for mostly everything or had to correct you for everything you did or said? And he made you stay in your room for timeout. But he never explained the reason why, but that you always got told no or punished or told you were wrong, and all you know is that he doesn't like anything you do or say and nothing is ever good enough or that you NEVER met his expectations??? But then sometimes he gives you a hug or kiss. Would it feel authentic or would you feel proud? Would you feel good about that?
Would you like him for doing that?

Also important is to teach the child how to express themselves. Too.
Toddlers, have so many things in their heads and developing imaginations... but physically, they may not be able to actually DO what they are thinking. The Toddler age is awkward.
They may want to ride a bike... but may not be able to actually do it, nor perfectly. Then they get frustrated. And fussy. So they need to also be taught about how to communicate and the names for their feelings.
It is not instinct.

For my kids, discipline is for downright defiance. But if they are simply making a mistake or doing something for which they are not astute at yet... I don't punish them. I coach them on it. My expectations are also reflective of their age stage. I cannot expect my 5 year old and 9 year old to be on the same ability or comprehension level. Nor when they were 2 and 6 years old.

At this age, concurrently, Toddlers do go through the "no" stage and saying the opposite. So, it may be your Sitter, or it may very well be just your child's age-stage and development. So discern, that.
There are many ways to handle a child saying "no." It does not always have to be handled with hardness.

Another reason why Toddlers may tantrum is, they do not yet know how to communicate effectively, nor know the names for their feelings, nor even know what they are feeling. They are 2.
At this age, with both my kids, I taught them the names for feelings, and how to say it. It takes practice. And practice tones of voice, in a fun way.
Or Toddlers tantrum because they are over stimulated or tired or hungry.
Those are common triggers.
I also did not scold, if my kid was "grumpy." IF they cold articulate that to me, and tell me in a sharing way, I would redirect them. I didn't expect them to be smiley faces all the time. But we worked on "how" to express things, and so that they knew they could tell me of ANYTHING in their heart. And not be afraid that they would be punished for feelings. Some kids just need to learn how to say things... and the words for it.

So many things, that are taught and expected at this age.
Toddlerhood is not easy for child or parent.

Also, instead of always saying "no" to everything, use other words. At this age they are also learning "concepts." ie: "danger," "hot," "stop," "hurt," etc. Tell him why, instead of just no. But long drawn out explanations are not effective at this age. Keep it short and plain.

Expectations needs to be age appropriate.

Part of toddlerhood is that there are a LOT of 'no's from our kiddos.

When I worked with a toddler group, I would call it 'exerting their toddlerhood' or 'flexing their autonomy'. It's par for the course, esp. with kids up through age three or so. If you think about it, it makes natural sense, because *we* say no to them seemingly all the time.

First, it may or may not be the sitter. Kids usually respond to the adult in charge-- if they know they're a pushover, they push and if they know you'll stand firm, they'll still push, but eventually appreciate that your boundary is a set one.

At this age, when safety is concerned (like the zoo), I always brought a stroller with straps. When my son was a toddler and didn't want to stay with me, he was put into the stroller and strapped in for a while. Then the choice is not 'hold my hand or time out' but "You may hold my hand or you may ride in the stroller." By not choosing to hold hands..."I see you are choosing to ride in the stroller."

During the toddler years, I really avoided time out as much as possible. I wanted to focus on giving two reasonable choices that *I* could live with. Time Out wasn't one of the choices, but sometimes, containment (via stroller or high chair) was. The difference with this was that instead of doing the 'sit there, do nothing' part of it, I'd give Kiddo something pleasant to do, like look at a book or play with a toy. There were a lot of times when I was working in the yard (and he was interested in discovering what was in the street) that I'd say "you may play next to me or you may sit in your stroller" and when he wandered toward the road again, I'd just pleasantly say "Oh, I see you need to sit down now", buckle him in and give him something to do.

This changed the situation from a power struggle to me recognizing what I needed to be doing, and getting it done--and recognizing that he needed a different diversion, distraction, entertainment.

I also do not really 'listen' to toddlers as much as I watch them and determine how I'll respond from what I'm seeing, not what they're saying. It's not to be disrespectful, but because they are active little people who change their mind often. They are also testing out their bodies, trying new things, more able and more curious. We have to keep teaching, teaching, teaching them what their appropriate alternatives are and what they *can* do, instead of what they can't do.

One word of caution-- Time Out with lots of hugs and kisses afterward can be very confusing to a child. If you are disciplining, this is not a time to give a lot of positive attention, because *That* is the pay-off and they might continue the negative behaviors/actions to eventually get there. So, when you do decide to do Time Out, be very clear that it's time out time, and then when that two minutes is over, give a clear "you may play (in here/with that toy/etc.)" or "It's time to do X" direction and then, no hugs or loving them up. Just matter of fact. Save those hugs and love for five minutes later, when they are busy and doing something that isn't a problem for you (it doesn't need to be a time of them pleasing you, either).

I hope some of this helps. For what it's worth, for the 2.5 years I worked with toddlers, I never used time out. Sometimes I'd send little ones to sit with my co-teacher, to look at a book in the cozy corner or to another activity which was more suitable. I think you will find that if you adjust your environment to be suitable for your kiddo, give two reasonable choices you can live with and redirect him to someplace/something safe and pleasant, this will help. Temper tantrums, I let them run their course without a lot of reasoning on my end. Each child is different. Good luck!

My son spent his second year in time out. He was testing his will against mine. I never gave in, but I also never lost control of myself. I would take a deep breath and put him in time out. 2minutes if he got up, it started over. It was a tough year but now he's the most respectful kid you'd ever meet. 2 is a critical year. They have to learn that they are not the center of the world and that disrespecting mommy is never going to work.

Keep it up. In two years you'll look back and be glad you stuck with it.

I don't think you necessarily need to change your time out routine, but you can modify it a bit by just stopping whatever the activity is that you are doing until he complies. My son is 2.5 and is in a "no" phase right now as well...it is SOOOOO annoying! ;)

Anyway, if he needs to hold hands I say that we need to hold hands, if he doesn't then I either put him in the cart, the stroller or just stop walking and hold on to him until he's ready. It doesn't usually take too long. Tonight for instance my son would not calm down for bed. He chose a story but kept running around like a maniac and didn't want to sit and read so we asked him one more time if he wanted to read or go to bed, he didn't choose, just answered with a loud NO and so we put him to bed. It's frustrating, don't get me wrong, but it gets you out of that constant in and out of time-out rut. I save time-outs for the big stuff! Good luck!

We are big believers in letting the kid have a choice, and if they don't choose, we are ready to choose for them! That's how I stay sane! It sounds like your issues are typical 2 y/o boy issues and have more to do with that and probably less to do with a non assertive sitter...although, she's going to have to step it up if she wants to be the one in charge! ;)

Sounds to me like you are doing it right. It seems like a lot of "no" right now, but it will work if you are consistent and you'll be glad that you did it in a year from now.

My kids get 1 warning (we count to 3, ie, please get your shoes on. (wait). Son, I asked you to get your shoes on and you didn't listen, that was 1. Now you are on 2, please get your shoes on. If I get to 3, you are not going. (wait). Ok, 3, you didn't get your shoes on, and now you have to stay home.) Very serious things, such as hitting, get immediate time out, as does shouting "NO" at mommy or daddy ("no thank you" or even "I don't want to" is fine, but shouting "NO" is not acceptable).

I'm in the middle of doing this millions of times with my 2 year old, but I never get past 2 with my 5 year old, so I know its going to get better.

We've gone through phases like this. It's so hard. Keep up with the time outs, but keep doing what you can to compliment anything positive. Be really specific. Ask him to do something that you know for sure he'll do, and then say "Hey I like how you did what I asked right away. That's good cooperating." With my son, we also do little maybe 20 second story-rehearsals throughout the day during the good times. It's hard to explain, but we try to make him imagine himself doing the right thing. Like this weekend is my son's birthday party. We know he won't want to stop for potty breaks and will probably throw a fit to stop playing with his cousins. He loves stories about when Daddy and I were little, so we've been telling him a (fake) story about when his Daddy was little and wouldn't take a potty break on his birthday and then felt sad to wet his pants. And we ask him what his Daddy should have done, and what he will do when we tell him it's time for a potty break at his party. It just gives him time to imagine being good in a scenario that would be really hard for him. Like I said, it takes all of 20 seconds, but it seems to help when we know in advance what we'll need him to cooperate on.

I believe that TO is not very effective at this age. It's totally unconnected to what you want him to learn. I suggest that separating him from the misbehavior is more effective. This might be a formal time out for some things but mostly I'd use redirection and removing him from the location.

For example: I suggest you tried to be patient for too long. When he wasn't able to co-operate I would take him home, telling him that you can't stay at the zoo because he wasn't being safe.

I also suggest that instead of focusing on the disobedience that you focus on changing his focus. It might've worked at the zoo to begin talking with him about the animals and what they were doing. Pick him up and point to get his attention.

The more you say no the more he's going to say no. When he wants to run away, give him a choice. Hold my right hand or my left? If that doesn't work, pick him up and get him involved in the zoo experience.

Redirection and choices are my two go to actions for refusal to co-operate.

As far as tantrums go, they do not respond to a TO. He's lost control and doesn't know how to regain control. Ignoring them helps the tantrum to diminish. No need for a time out once he's calm and a time out while he's screaming and kicking is impossible to enforce.

Once he's calm, try talking to him about how he felt. "you were angry because mommy wouldn't let you have that toy. It's ok to be angry. Next tell me you're angry." Teach him, over time, how to handle his feelings.

Sympathy rather than discipline works best when he's upset. Be clear with your boundary but sympathize at the same time. "I know you want to run but to be safe you must hold my hand. Do you want to hold my right hand or my left?" A warning, when he doesn't comply and you've tried redirecting his attention. If you don't stay with us, we'll have to leave the zoo. A TO doesn't help him refocus his energy. It will only make him angry so he'll keep insisting on running ahead.

You don't always have to be stern when correcting a toddler. You can distract him by gently tickling him while saying something like, so you want to run. I want you to stay right here so I can tickle you some more." All said with a great deal of humor. This redirects them without having to say no.

First, welcome to a 2 year old. Sounds pretty typical at this age. I wouldn't warn about time outs. I would just directly put him there. He's had enough warnings that he knows the rules. Why warn him? It's telling him that it's ok to do it sometimes without consequence. So when he breaks a rule put him immediately in time out. Other options, depending on what rule he breaks is take away a toy for the day or more if he throws it or the like. Remove him from the table if he's misbehaving. Throws snack, he gets no snack. Take away things that are important to him like a favorite TV show, playing outside, going to the zoo, playing with a favorite toy, no coloring, etc. Remind him afterward of the offense and the punishment. "The reason why you could not watch your show today was because you told Mommy NO again. It's rude and will not happen again. Understand?" You should ask him to apologize and answer with "yes ma'am/sir". Good habit to get into now. For the zoo trip, this is a safety issue. He needs a stroller, just a simple umbrella stroller. So the next time you go to the zoo and he wants to walk, let him. If he cannot hold hands he goes directly into the stroller, period. Or tell him last time he would not follow rules so this time he sits in the stroller or goes home. Many times I've tossed my triplets back in the car after dumping money on them for days they could not follow rules when they were little. No extra treats for poor behavior. On poor bahavior days don't give extra treats or nice meals. Give basic things to tide them over. Show them if they do well they get good things. They do not do well they do not get the good stuff. Start early. The older they get the longer it is to teach new behavior.

K. B
mom to 5 including triplets

You would probably be better served without the warnings. This way if he is just saying no for the sake of saying no or defying you then there should be the immediate response of the discipline of choice which in your case is Time Out.

My guy who turned 3 in April went through about 4 to 5 months of "No" to most everything, but the past month he's matured to the point he isn't saying "no" hardly any of the time but instead complying. I really believe a lot of it is that 2 to 3 year olds are at the age of asserting their independence, they realize they are no longer babies and want us to respect that ; ) They are also still mastering the complicated usage of the vocabulary they have learned and are learning, once they learn to "use their words" their behavior seems to mellow out, as long as they haven't been allowed to do whatever they want all the time.

Sometimes time-outs alone aren't enough, especially with a "my way or the highway" child. While we were having all the "no's" I did the time-outs, but in response to safety issues like running away from me he sat in the cart or stroller, so his options were immediately limited then and the next outing, I feel time-outs are useless when safety is compromised. Tantrums have earned him in-store time-outs (off to the side where he could be seen and see people) and we have left establishments outright a couple of times when he flat-out refused to settle down. Redirection in some instances can also limit the number of time-outs you have to give.

I also feel that hugs and kisses immediately after a time-out are confusing to a child, some may actually misbehave to get the attention. Better to wait a few minutes and then hug and kiss and say "I love you." This way misbehavior isn't tied in any way to the giving of affection.

And, if you feel the sitter is not in line with your way of doing things talk to them and tell them what he's allowed to do, or not, and what is to be disciplined so there is consistency across the board. Little ones really do thrive on boundaries, it makes them feel more secure as it teaches them what to expect, it's the unknown they don't like.

Hang in there, with consistent discipline, his mastery of his vocabulary and the emotional growth he'll experience I believe you will see better behavior in the next few months.

With my daughter I tried to give her choices... You can't walk around without holding Mommy or Daddy's hand but you can pick one of us or you can pick both and we can swing you some of the time.

Sort of choices with a bit of redirection... I found that the less I told her flat out No, the less I heard it from her and she started to listen because when she got her choices she felt in control.

Does that make sense? Giving her choices is the norm and she figured out that when she does not get a choice, then she has to do whatever it is Mommy asks. It took about 2 weeks for all of us to get used to the new pattern but it still works today and she is 4 now.

Good luck!

I have a similar situation. Though, I need to let you know it does get better. My son is now 3 years & 3 months & he is suddenly so much better. He still has his moments, but the all day battles seem to be over.
Some things that may help...
1. Try to eliminate "no" from your vocab. Instead of saying "don't leave us" say "come over here". If he hears no less, he may repeat it less.
2. My son is all about being in control. So, I try to give him a choice between 2 options when ever possible. I believe this has helped. (Ex. PB&J or ham & cheese for lunch).
3. Don't punish him for saying "no". He should be allowed to express his feelings verbally. Punish him for his actions (running off). You don't want to make him afraid to say "no" to a grownup. Try to talk to him about his feelings & teach him other words to use to describe those feelings.
4. Mix it up. When my son wanders too far, I start counting. He knows if I get to 3, before he gets back, then he gets a time out. (Sometimes I will count slowly to give him enough time to get back). I also use counting for other things as well. Sometimes I will say "final warning" for some reason (maybe tone of voice) my son knows I am serious with that one & he shapes up very quickly. If he doesn't then he gets a time out.
5. Start praising your other child. If sister is staying near you when you are out, tell her how great her behaviour is. How you love her good manners. You are so proud that she sticks with you & follows directions. (Make sure you are loud enough for son to hear). Also, you (or hubby) could take daughter out on a special date (to a movie or restaurant). The other parent stays home with son. Make sure son & daughter know that the date is a reward for her good behaviour. Stress that son is not going b/c he doesn't know how to behave in public & when he learns, then he will be able to go. (This is the only one I did not actually try myself. We were planning on doing it this summer, but as I said, my son has suddenly grown out of this phase).

One final thing...make sure it is not a food or sleep thing. I think that most people know kids are grumpy if they don't
sleep enough. But, my kids (and myself) get very grumpy/whiney if we don't eat often enough. A lot of times we don't even feel hungry (so if you ask him he will probably tell you he is not hungry), but if we skip snack or a meal is later than usually, we all start melting down. We eat about every 3 hours all day. Breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, snack. I also try to keep meals at the same time every day. I always carry snacks with me (granola bars, pretzels, goldfish, etc) in case we are out longer than expected.

Good luck.

I am having TO problems with my 2.5 dd also. When she hits or kicks her brother she comes up to me and says, I probably need to go in TO. I ask her why and she tells me. Obviously its not affective.

I have gone to giving 2 choices: behave or...sit in a cart at the store, stroller, etc... I still haven't figured out the being mean to brother thing yet, so I am waiting for good answers on that front. Thanks for asking a good question!

Updated

I am having TO problems with my 2.5 dd also. When she hits or kicks her brother she comes up to me and says, I probably need to go in TO. I ask her why and she tells me. Obviously its not affective.

I have gone to giving 2 choices: behave or...sit in a cart at the store, stroller, etc... I still haven't figured out the being mean to brother thing yet, so I am waiting for good answers on that front. Thanks for asking a good question!

I think at this age redirection is still the best way to deter them from doing something you don't want them to do.

Had it been me the kid would have been on a leash or holding my hand the entire time. They want freedom and it is my job to make sure they hold on or stay within grasp.

I have a lead that lets out a lot. It has a large dog harness on the end and I put it around our little guys waist. Under his shirt. That way he is safe and I don't have to hold his hand all the time. He does not have the freedom to run away.

Updated

I think at this age redirection is still the best way to deter them from doing something you don't want them to do.

Had it been me the kid would have been on a leash or holding my hand the entire time. They want freedom and it is my job to make sure they hold on or stay within grasp.

I have a lead that lets out a lot. It has a large dog harness on the end and I put it around our little guys waist. Under his shirt. That way he is safe and I don't have to hold his hand all the time. He does not have the freedom to run away.

My now almost 20 year old spent a year of his life in time out. I am glad we did it. We also put him in Karate at age 4 and that helped immensely. Just be consistent. Do not ever let him "win".
When we went anywhere, we'd tell him what we expected and what would happen if he didn't behave. If we went to a birthday party, we'd tell him that we expected him to be polite, play nice, and that the presents weren't his and he wasn't to touch them. Then we said that if he misbehaved, he'd get one reminder and if we had to speak to him a second time, he'd be going home.
I only had to take him home once. :-)
YMMV
LBC

I do exactly the same thing as diane does and it really works but the key is actually following through. if he doesn't get his shoes on and you're at 3, it really means that he can't go! He'll figure it out quickly that his actions decide the outcome and that he can fix the situation or get punished by either not going somewhere or going to a TO.