My good friend is having a very hard time in his marriage. They are constantly fighting and pretty much both parties are miserable. There will be a series of bad days (breakdowns, kicking spouse out of the house, etc), and then there will be a tolerable day when each can see some of the good in the other person. But then it quickly reverts back to the bad. They have three children and some financial instability. But he doesn't want to leave her because he's afraid of what she will do and how she will act. He says he is too caring and can't just leave her, but he's absolutely miserable most of the time. He's always asking "how do you know when it's time to leave?"
Since my marriage is just fine, I really have no answer. How he stays married to this crazy woman is beyond me, but it's not my place to tell him to leave. So, I'm asking you mamas who may have had to make the same decision. How did you know it was time to end your marriage?
Thank you to those mamas that answered the question I asked. There were some very insightful thoughts and they are so very appreciated!
For those that wonder why he's talking to me, it's because we are friends (God forbid) and talking through things helps all of us in a time of need. We are all social creatures and this man tends to have more female friends than male. Isn't that why you're on this site???? To talk about your problems and get advice? I have not "told him what I think" because it is not my place to tell him to stay or leave, but it would be nice for him to hear how other people handled the same situation. I have suggested a counselor as well, but his wife has declined.
"How he stays married to this crazy woman is beyond me,"
There are two sides to every story, keep in mind you are only getting his version of it. Sometimes it takes two to make crazy.
And as others have mentioned. You REALLY should bow out.
Well, she's crazy and he's a coward so my guess is that he's not going to leave this marriage. If he was "too caring", he would extricate himself and his children from an unhealthy situation. His cowardice is evident in the simple fact that he's essentially looking to you to "end" this cycle for him- he needs someone to say "it's time to leave", which you really can't do.
Suggest to him that he seek-out a marriage counselor or an individual therapist who can help him work through a solution. A marriage counselor will do what he/she can to help a couple come to a resolution that they can both lively peacefully with... sometimes it's a second shot at a relationship and sometimes it's an amicable divorce. Only the couple will know when/if it's the "right time" to end a marriage. As someone who is outside of the couple, you cannot possibly answer this question.
Inviting a third person's opinion into a two person marriage never works out. Tell him to go to a marriage counselor, because as a friend to both (even if you're lying) - you can't remain objective.
Moreover, your words and your name WILL come out. No matter how much he swears and promises - it'll slip. Then one of two things will happen - you'll be deposed as part of the divorce, or be hated by the wife for undermining her marriage if they stay together. It's lose lose for you.
It was time to leave my marriage when:
* I began to lose "myself" and knew that this was not the mother I wanted for my daughter.
* the thought of my daughter seeing this as her only *model* for what a good marriage is made me really really sad.
* I did everything I could ON MY END to change myself for the better and work on my own issues. It had no impact on him, or the relationship, and our marriage counselor said she didn't think our marriage would work if he didn't want it to work as well.
*The pain of the bad days was worse than the happiness of the good days.
I, too, do not think he should be talking to you about this no matter how great friends you are, have been, etc.
For HIS sake a neutral, qualified, good counselor would be the best option.
Sorry if that's off topic . . . but it really jumped out at me that he is triangulating you into something so personal. What if your husband talked about you to another woman, no matter how justified it was?
JMO.
Divorce is horrible. I thank God I do not have these problems, but I would think even though divorce is extremely hard on children, when the parents staying together is more damaging to children than divorce would be, that is when I would have to end it.
At least in my experience it is obvious. It is like whoa!! yeah, I am done. Perhaps I stayed in too long, I can't really say for sure. All I know is I hit a point where there was no upside to staying. Pretty much the only thing keeping me was financial stability and that just wasn't worth messing up my kids.
When it hits you that you can't spend one more SECOND with them.
When is it time to leave a marriage?
When you can't do any more to help your spouse and be kind to them. Usually that's when the preacher finishes the eulogy and says, "Amen".
Otherwise there is a chance the two "combatants" can change their ways ad repair the marriage.
Good luck to you and yours.
Once you've exhausted all other possible solutions.
Have they been in couples therapy or individual counseling? Have they been to the church for counseling? Have they attempted to determine the issues and deal with them? It's time to leave once you've given it your best effort and tried everything you know to try, including getting professional help. That's what it means to COMMIT! You don't give up without a fight. You don't walk away just because there are hardships.
I would question why he is talking to you and this and that you should refer him to a counselor or sometone else. Imagine if your husband was doing this to you and how you would feel?
Aside from that, I feel it's time to leave a marraige when all avenues of reconciliation have been fought long and hard. My husband and I disagree, the last few months have been more than normal and we are in counseling again. We love each other though, so that makes it worth it.
I know my husband has female friends that he talks to and it drives me insane because it's disrespectful to me. That's one issue we are discussing in counseling. So I highly suggest you tell him that he should be talking to a counselor WITH his wife and not you about his marriage issues.
You just know (like how you knew this was the person you wanted to marry). That being said, knowing and doing are completely different. He already knows, but has to take the steps (whether its to stay or leave).
My advice to him would be to do everything possible to work it out so there are no "what ifs".
It took me a long time to get to that point. My only regret now is that I should have ended it a year before. I enabled his behavior and it sent all our lives into a tailspin. He had already made the choice to be done and I had to work through the "what ifs".
if he didnt want your opinion, he wouldnt have asked for it. typically, if you have to ask someone else if its time to leave, then its past time to leave. a bad relationship is alot like showing up at a party only to realize that YOU are the punch line for everyone there. i knew it was time to leave a bad relationship years ago when i was "asked" to pay the same bill..twice, several times. come to find out, the loser was funneling money out of the household accounts so he could wine and dine a girl 16 years his junior. but revenge is a sweet thing, i found his secret condom stash and quietly "pricked" every-last-one-of-them..then i moved out.tell the guy, if he is truly afraid of his wifes reaction to him leaving, get out now, while you still can.
K. h.
Yeah, sorry... you had me at the friend was a guy. Yes, guys and girls can be friends. But if he is married, he really needs to seek mutual advice from a guy friend or a counselor. I also think you need to evaluate your relationship with this guy. You seem mighty close to a married man... who is about to get a divorce, at that...
I have a male friend that talked to me about a similar dilemma (but no kids) a couple of years ago. I told him that he needed to get counseling. Preferably as a couple, but singularly if not.
The time to leave a (non-abusive) marriage is when you stop caring and stop trying.
i think he needs to try and save it first. go to therapy together and if she wont he can go alone. he needs to learn how to deal with her if anything. maybe they need time away from each other. can he go back home for a few months and they can go out on dates again. if all the the rage stems from money maybe they need to talk to a financial advisor and possibly claim bankrupsy so that they can breath again. other problems in life can make one lash out at our loved ones.
i think they shouldnt get divorsed at all and should try to work it out.
Although I wasn't married to my daughter's father, I knew it was time to leave that relationship when I realized that it was detrimental to my daughter. It was a verbally and physically abusive relationship and once I realized what effect it was having on her, the decision was easy.
I would tell your friend to try to see things through the kids eyes. What are they seeing? Hearing? If he doesn't like the answer, then it's time to call it quits. Personally, I think it's better for kids to have a broken home than for them to live with parents who truly don't like each other and who fight and cause stress and tension in the home. It's better to have two loving homes than to have one home in chaos!
The answer is different for everyone. I haven't been there but my husband has. He spent too many years with a crazy woman who buried him in debt, was a horrible mother/wife and made him miserable. The final straw for him was when he was talking it through with a female friend and she said, "Picture yourself in 10, 20, 30 years...where do you want to be? With her?" Something for him to really think about.
I decided to leave when it started to effect my children. Most parents think that staying in the marriage is better for the children but if they are witnessing all of the craziness and mindgames it is not good at all. Children learn that kind of thing fast and it sticks around their whole life.
Hi, Krista:
Krista, the problem with his marriage, he is talking with you and not his wife.
You have labeled her as a "crazy woman." Do you talk with his wife and get her side of the story? Yes, you do have the answer, "do not listen to his complaints." He is gossiping. He needs to learn to stand up and say what he needs. You are taking sides which is bias. God joined this couple in Holy Matrimony. Their issues can be resolved, but not as long as you continue to be a "fox in the vineyard."
When he starts telling you his problems, tell him to communicate with his wife in this way.
1. Tell her what he thinks when he realizes what is happening.
2. Tell her what impact this is having on him and others.
3. Tel her what is the hardest thing for him.
4. Tell her what he thinks needs to happen to make things right.
Foxes in the Vineyard:
Over many years of marriage, we've also discoved what Solomon calls the "little foxes that are ruining the vineyards" (Song of Solomon 2:15). These are the things that will steal the fruit of love before it has a chance to be enjoyed.
If you want to taste the delicious fruit of romantic love in your relationship, then you'd better pay close attention to those things that are nipping your love in the bud. For us, these "foxes" have included:
*Wrong priorities
*Young kids who wear us out
*Teenagers who won't go to bed
*Financial pressures
*Changing seasons of a marriage
*Poor health
*Crowded schedules
*Unrealistic expectations
*Critical spirits
*Unresolved conflict
We think the most deadly fox, however, is apathy. If you truly are committed to making your marriage last for a lifetime, and enjoying the types of oneness God intends in a relationship, you need to make a choice to keep romance in your marriage. Neglect has snuffed out the romantic fires in far too may marriages.
You need to focus on your marriage, not his.
Good luck.
D.
