Handling a Playdate Bully

I think play dates at this age are more for the parents to socialize than it is for the kids to play because kids do not play well together in a cooperative way until they are 4-5 years old.
They are not being bullies - they are just being toddlers.
Just tell the other Mom you think that maybe you started too young, and you are going to take a break from play dates for awhile till the kids are older.

Children are often locked in a constant battle/power struggle with their parents and tend to tune them out. They are more likely to absorb a lesson from another adult besides their parents. So if you don't think mom will freak, next time take him by the arm and have a stern discussion with him. He might just sit up and take notice if another adult yells at him.

First, a 3 yo is not a bully. He's still learning how to get along with others. I suggest he pushes and takes away toys because your 22 mos old son doesn't respond in a way that the 3 yo understands. At 22 mos. he plays on his own. He doesn't interact so much with another child.

I suggest both of you moms be more proactive. Teach the 3 yo how to treat the 22 mos. old. Speaking to him after the fact does little good unless you're showing him how to behave and when the behavior continues giving him a consequence.

First, I"d work on stopping him before he gets to your son. I would have your 22 mos. old play next to you and not expect him to play with the 3 yo. Because he's close to you you can reach out and stop the 3 yo. and divert his attention.

When he takes a toy, give the toy back to your baby and tell him that the baby is too young to share. Talk about sharing but don't expect the 22 mos old to share. Teach the 3yo that he's to not take toys from the baby. With calm but firm repetition he'll learn. A natural consequence is to have the 3 yo play in an area away from the baby. This should be happening anyway, in my opinion.

Discuss this way of relating with his mother before starting to do it. I suggest that you need to stop thinking of it as a big deal but more as an opportunity for teaching/learning. Tell her that you don't like the way it's been going and you'd like to try this instead of what you've been doing.

I suggest that thinking of the boy as a bully works against the goal of teaching. I suggest not labeling children. Labels tend to create the behavior identified by the label.

I've interacted with lots of toddlers over many years, and have seen all levels of behavior from very timid to very active and forceful. I really don't think it's "bully" behavior at the age of three, and if your son were the forceful one, I think you'd probably object to that label.

But the behavior is still troublesome for you and your child. I would definitely talk to the other mom, especially since she seems receptive. You could ask her if she, or you, can "shadow" her son. Watching him really closely would allow you to intercept the boy, perhaps just before a push, poke, or toy grab. Lift the pushy child, correct and redirect him. This is effective in daycare situations when one child is hurting or biting other kids, and physical punishment is not allowed. A couple of weeks of persistent, timely interceptions is sometimes all it takes to convince the child he won't get away with that behavior.

If that doesn't solve the problem to a degree that you're comfortable with, by all means, suspend the playdates with this child.

Hi Mom of 2,

You covered a lot of ground on this post. It sounds like you are at a crossroads, as to either taking a break or being more direct.

If the mother is apologizing, that's good that she's aware of what's happening. What else is happening? Is her son being corrected? If mom is trying to correct the behavior/follow through with him, then perhaps you want to see if you could hang in there. Correction takes a lot of forms: sometimes it's a time-out, sometimes it's "Oh, look at his (your little one's) face. He is very sad because you hurt/scared him." Sometimes the best correction is to end the playdate immediately, usually if something a bit more serious has happened.

I also wrote a piece about playdates/ playgroups on my blog a while ago, with some focus specifically on resolving child/child conflict and discipline:
http://skyteahouse.blogspot.com/2010/11/parenting-at-play...

This is a really tough area of parenting, from my perspective. I'm a preschool teacher and a mom and I've had some very weird experiences with playdates. At one point, both my son and I were not enjoying a playgroup very much, but because I loved the women, I decided to keep up with them during their nights out. Perhaps this mom would love to meet up for coffee, or a drink in the evening or for brunch on the weekends. Moving a relationship beyond the kids can take finesse, and just telling your new Mom friend "You know, my youngest just isn't enjoying these playdates right now" is a graceful way to continue to get to know her.

Three-year-olds are still learning the rules of the game and still need a lot of coaching from parents and teachers. Other things you might try are sitting between your younger one and the older children and then distracting the boy if he heads over to your younger son, or having the older boys play in a room with a gate in the doorway; you can hang out with the youngers in the hallway or within sight and sound of the bigger kids.

Or, you can take the bull by the horns and be very clear about the rules in your house, if the mom seems to be a bit of a wet mop regarding discipline. (That's the "oh, honey, we don't do that...." sort of ineffective pleading we've all seen before.) I know some moms who, undaunted by their mom-friend's reluctance to discipline, have decided to firmly address misbehaving children themselves. Granted, in those cases, the friendships were longer and had more foundation, but it did save their ability to continue to do playgroup/playdates together.

Stick to whatever feels healthy and comfortable for you. If it means having playdates only on weekends when the dads can take the younger children, that might be a possibility. If it means trying out the MomDate with this woman, go for it. No matter what happens, be gracious, as you will likely have her in your life for the next couple years or beyond. Whatever you do, however, do not continue to put yourself and your kids in a situation you are uncomfortable with, just to 'be nice'. Those situations usually worsen and backfire due to pent-up anger and confrontations can ensue which will make your daily contact with her very uncomfortable for both of you.

Okay, so at that age I wouldn't really call a child a bully. It's nice & dandy that the mom attempts to correct the behavior, but it's clear that it's not working. Any aggressive behavior should immediately end the play date. Your kid is more important than this lady's feelings. Tell her, nicely, that until her kid's behavior is more gentle, you can't partake in any more play dates, for your children's sake.

it actually sounds like you have a good relationship with a very nice woman who hasn't quite realized that with three year olds you have to up the ante sometimes (with all kids actually). i love what you said about you do correct the child to. so am i right in thinking that so far it has been a "moms vs kids" atmosphere? that is what you need. next time it happens, speak openly to her and say (nicely), "wow looks like junior is headed for a time out, honey how many times do you have to be told to be nice?" i mean seriously, a three year old that has to be told so many times to be nice (pushing, taking toys, etc, are all time out offenses at our house anyway) needs to be in time out. and mom may not realize this or hasn't realized that it's time to up the ante with her discipline. obviously it's not working....if you can't find a way to bring it up in a non threatening way, to salvage the friendship, then yes, this friendship is going to get awkward and uncomfortable and will probably end. i say be the grownup and mention time outs to her. when he does this stuff he needs to be removed from playing with the kids for a few minutes. "talking to" a three year old is rarely going to get you very far.

At 3 years old they are learning the rules. The 22 month old should not be
playing with the older ones. While the big ones are playing, I would be
playing with the little one. I would not cut off this child from playdates. He
will get it. It seems like his Mom is trying. When they play together I would
explain at the outset, that the baby cannot be pushed etc. or the playdate
will end. Just make sure you follow thru. Do not end a friendship over this.

Get ready for a long ride on a bumpy road!
I had a similar situation but with older kids. I bit my tongue at every turn, even let my son to take half the blame on many occasions even when I CLEARLY knew he was not at fault. It was just to keep peace with the mom and I being great friends. This went on for months and got progressively worse until my son, tired of being treated poorly and aggressively and physically from this boy and feeling ultimately threatened punched the boy which of course was unprovoked according to the other mom and it ended the friendship ( in retrospect not sure if I'd call it that) between us all. Now I consider it a gift that it happened because it allowed me to cut off the relationship completely though it's not the most comfortable of situations my Childs safety and well being are paramount. Bottom line. Lose these people. Do it gracefully in your case. It's only preschool and take this opportunity to practice having to do this as I am sure it will come up again at some point with another child. You'll develop "radar" to recognize it sooner than later!

Why not tell the mom that as much as you like the two 3 year old's having play dates that it's not fair to your 22 month old to be pushed, poked or scared so you'd like to end them? That would give her the opportunity to say she will be more on top of her son's behavior, and if she chooses not to than at least you'll know and your son won't be exposed to him anymore.

Keep in mind that life is filled with bullies so this may not be his last encounter with one, but at this age YOU have to stand up for him.

I have a friend whose son is exactly one year to the day older than my eldest daughter. Follow me? He is an aggressive boy because he has a rat bastard, abusive father although now that his parents are divorced his kinder side is more dominant. [Edit: The kids are now 12 and 11 years old.]

Anyway, since toddlerhood he has always been aggressive toward my daughter and has bitten, pushed, hit, slapped, and called her cuss-word names. The first time he did a new type of offense, I gave my friend the courtesy of handling the situation. If she wasn't there to witness it I would show her the visible results of the injury. "C, Son just bit J hard enough to break skin and draw blood. How do you want to handle this?" I never went to her ex-h for discipline because he'd beat the boy. She always handled it well.

If it happened a second time, I would get to eye level with Friend's Son and say directly and kindly to him, "I know you're a really good boy, but when you hurt J it upsets me. I'm her Mommy so I need to tell you that I don't want you to bite her again. I will be watching to make sure that you don't bite. I still love you." And we ended with a hug.

This boy is 12 now and I've had to adjust how I handle things with him, but the message is the same. "I know you're used to rough play with your cousins, but J isn't. She's smaller than you are and doesn't play rough sports or games with other kids, so she gets injured easily. I would appreciate it if you could be more careful around her and maybe protect her instead of hurting her."

That approach works really well with him, especially since he's fiercely protective of my middle daughter (who will be 9 soon) and my 6 year old daughter. I'm not sure if it's because he knows my middle daughter is special needs and he still views my youngest as "the baby" of the group, but I know he's capable and he's a good kid. It's just a matter of getting through and using whatever they understand best.

You need to tell her it is not working out.
I have done that, once before.

If your own kids are getting mistreated this way, this is not good.
For example: I once baby sat a Toddler like that. A girl. It made my own daughter... miserable.
So I stopped it.
No longer baby sat that child.

You need to decide, what is the priority, here?
Your kids or not.
Your kids or just being 'nice' to the other woman and her bully kid?

Have the play dates, without, the younger kids. If this is even possible.

We also have an aggressive child in our playdates sometimes. We have lots of kids on our block and they are often all outside together, or at one person's house for an inside playdate. I never really knew how to handle it when this aggressive child would hit, push, take toys away, etc., from my kids. I also defaulted to this kid's mom to do the disciplining. But it was basically the same situation you deal with - not too much in the way of discipline and I felt so angry that my child was hurt!

Then one day I saw another mom handle it herself...the aggressive child hit this mom's little girl. The mom of the little girl took the aggressive child's face (by the chin) gently but firmly, and said in a quiet but very firm voice...NO. We do not hit. The aggressive kid walked away and at least for that moment peace was restored. So that's my new approach, and I don't care if the aggressive kid's mom sees me doing it or not. I mean if my kid were hitting another kid, I wouldn't be shocked to see someone handle it that way.

Also - and this was kind of hard for me to swallow at first...but it's not such a terrible thing to have your kids exposed to other kids who exhibit this kind of behavior. I'm in NO way condoning aggressive behavior of course, but I think keeping your kids in 100% protected situations and never giving them a chance to learn to defend themselves makes it harder for them later on. Of course your son is only 22 months, so I'm not saying just let him figure it out on his own. But it might toughen him up just a little, which isn't such a bad thing. As long as it doesn't make HIM aggressive as a result.

I would keep being friendly with the Mom at preschool. The next time she extends a playdate invite, I would decline politely because for now it's just not a good experience for your younger child, and it's not fair to him. Tell her you are sorry because your older son really enjoys playing with her older son, and maybe she would be open to having a weekend playdate sometime when your younger son can stay home with your DH or with a Grandma or something like that. As all of the kids get older, if the 3 year olds are still buddies, you can try again with all of them. They are awfully young for playdates, especially the youngers. All still learning social skills. I guarantee you when you politely put up this boundary though, it will give her pause to think that yes, she does need to amp up her discipline, or people will stop accepting playdates with them. You can't make her be a stronger disciplinarian, but you can choose to not put your son in the line of fire when you don't see there is anything effective going on to stop the situation.

Some boys are just rough. They are more physical and some of them don't know their limits b/c they are growing into their active bodies.

Schedule a "fake" playdate at your house, where the mom doesn't have to be anywhere, like the doctor's appt. At drop off, explain to the 3 yo some of your house rules, with the mom right there to hear. And then tell him the consequence - if you have to keep asking him to stop playing rough or not being a kind friend or whatever, you will call his mother and he will go home. Have her wait in her car if she lives far and then AS SOON AS HE ACTS UP call the mom and she can pick him up. No ifs, ands or buts.

Believe me, this will help both you and her, and in the end, the child will learn a great and valuable lesson of consequences on how he treats other.

Why are you calling this bullying? This is not bullying this is a child who hasn't been taught proper behavior.

Stop playing with him. How much can you possibly have in common with a family that clearly doesn't parent the same way as you do? If you find other families that don't hold the same values, don't continue to play with them as well. You are going to find as your kids get older that a lot of people make different choices than you do. Get over it and move on.

Stop the playdates. Find some boys who don't push constantly.

Start letting the younger sibling go to a babysitters or a difference place. If the boy is friends with the other boy and they get along it could be simple jealousy. He just wants his friend to himself. This will let your other little one have some time to play with his friend one on one too.

Mom,
first thing this 'bully' aka older sibling, needs is a hug. And attention. From his Mom.

My son does this. to his younger brother. since day 2. Every time, it is because I am distracted. When I am with them both, and he makes a move, I gently remind him that he needs to use his words to tell me what he wants, and he needs to use his words to tell his brother what he wants. Then after all the age-related reminders (like his brother can't use his words yet), and doesn't know how not to reach out (which looks identical to him like 'hitting')I hold him in my lap a few moments until something else catches his fancy/attention.

it is hard to tell someone this - because in this society it is taboo to tell someone else how to parent their child.

You can model for your child the way to do this, too.

Simply be a part of the play, as more of a sitting bystander. You can easily reach in to deflect anything truly harsh or dangerous (which is what needs to be done anyway!) and redirect the older 3 year old (who does NOT know better, and won't truly until he learns it - and that could take until age 9 - or LATER, depending how he is taught vs disciplined (and disciplining a child does NOT teach how to go about this stuff the right way. Discipline is more interested and confused with punishment and removing rights until a child essentially has nothing more to motivate them except to get ATTENTION, which is what caused the breach in the first place. AGH!)

Redirect the 3 year old non-family (or family, it works either way) boy to ask what is wrong, does he need something? More than likely, he will NOT be able to articulate it, or anything. It might be like he's 'not there' or 'not listening'. Simply deflect, ask the question again (because it WILL arise!) and do it again, and again. Ask questions and redirect his attention to the toys or to the weather, or to his Mom, or 'do you need a hug from your Mom?' I'm thinking after the 3rd or 4th asking, he'll ask for one.

Remind him when he comes back for more (because he WILL) that he needs to ask his MOM for a HUG and that's the only way he'll get one is to ASK (even if asking is totally from YOU!)

He's only 3. it does start somewhere but really it starts with understanding that he is still a baby, and even if the skill is demonstrated - it does NOT mean he HAS IT DOWN PERFECT FOREVER AMEN! Every growth spurt will knock it down, flatten it, and send it out to the cleaners.

So if you're looking for fast, quick, easy fix by telling Mom to get her act together, you can, but the fast, quick, easy fix is likely no more playdates.

Good luck,
M.

Maybe he does need a timeout, but you are not his mom. And his mom is choosing *not* to give him a timeout - that is her right. Wouldn't it make you angry if someone told you how to discipline your child when you think you are handling him properly, your way? Whether or not you are "right" isn't the issue. You need to let her raise her kids, and you can raise yours.
If you really don't like the way this child acts, and you don't think the actions will end with the way she disciplines, then the playdates are over. That is *your* right as the mother of your child. Don't try to change her, make a change for yourself.

You can't choose how this other mom disciplines her child. If the boy is only being mean to your younger child, and not your 3 year old who is his classmate, I feel like you have three choices - you can stop having playdates with this boy, you can drop your 3 year old off to play at his house and opt not to stay so that your toddler is not exposed to this boy, or you can use a babysitter for the younger boy while you and the 3 year old go to the playdate.