We rent and did not hire this gardening service. I was out and came home after the two gardeners were here. Upon coming into the house I watched as one gardner, thinking no one was home, took lemon after lemon off my only lemon tree. I love this tree and use every last lemon . I watched in horror wondering what do do. I'm Christian and gleaning is a biblical concept. That is, in biblical times, it was okay to take food (grain) from the edges of anothers land to feed yourself. I'm struggling to place this principle in our modern world. In other words, while stealing is against the moral law, it is not considered stealing when going hungry is your other alternative. So I prayed and said, God if he only takes half a bag I'm going to let it go, but if he fills it, I'm going to say something. Well he filled it (about 20-30 lemons). I didn't enjoy the confrontation. I told him he could have what he took but not to take any more because i use my lemons. He was very sheepish and clearly caught red handed. I'm mad, but my husband wants the landlord to fire him. "stealing is stealing" he says. This is CA. so yes, he's Mexican, no doubt poor. A penny for your thoughts.
Update, I' not assuming he's poor because he is Mexican. I'm assuming he is poor because he is an employee of a gardening service who likely is not even paid minimum wage because he Mexican, and by Mexican I don't mean Hispanic I mean illegal/ undocumented . Unless I'm missing something here and there's a good living to be make in lawn service I don't see how my observation is offensive. The point is, though I cherish the lemons of the tree I pay rent for, my heart goes out to those who have less than me. Thats kind of the point of my question. If I were heartless I would have confiscated back my lemons and agreed with my husband to complain about the lawn service.
I think that many of you were right that a lot of people don't cherish their fruit trees like me and let it fall and rot and gardeners get accustomed to thinking nothing of taking fruit. My inclination is that I handled it. I have also seen them take oranges, but I let so many fall and rot last season, I'm glad I let it go. As far as him getting fired, its not that my husband wants to get him fired, but in complaining about the incident, the risk is there that he could get fired or his boss could loose this one account. I will ask my husband to let it go. And I suspect he will come to the same conclusion as the day wears on. Someone asked what we do will all the lemons. Well, I use them in cooking, on vegetables, fish, in beer, salad dressing and an occasional lemonade. What I love most is that the lemons on my tree will last for 6 months out of the year so I never have to worry about having one when I need one or have them be shriveled in the bottom of my crisper. Last year I used every lemon on my tree and wished I'd had more. I have yet to pick one this season as they are only just turning which made it all that much harder to watch the man take so many (about 10-20% of the crop). I would love to repost this question without having mentioned my struggles from a christian perspective. I bet the response would have been a lot different.
and yes, for $3500/moth full access to the lemon tree is included in my rent especially since the yard and fruit trees are a major reason we wanted to rent this house.
Also, the confrontation was friendly and I'm never a speedy reactor to unexpected and tense situations- I wish I were but that is a limitation of my personality that I accept. Had I not delayed and prayed for this man I would have bit his head off, so contrary to one woman's advice, I'm glad I delayed.
1: just because he is Mexican does not make him poor. I live in a predominantly Latino city in Ca, and although I am not Mexican, I kind of take offense to that.
2: he probably got the point when you asked him to stop. He was caught, and likely wont take any more lemons.
Don't fire him :-)
Fired over lemons? No way.
And why do you assume he is poor because he is Mexican? Serious question.
You told him to stop, if he doesn't, then do something.
Did he seriously walk away with the bag he was stealing after you told him to take it? HAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, that just strikes me as odd/funny.
If he really is as poor as you believe, you really need to let this go.
I think you did the right thing. If you see him taking them again, though, I would talk to the landlord or gardening service.
Wow. Re read that bible. Aren't we all gods children including the poor mexican? You should think before you speak and being married to a mexican, I know our poor asses wouldn't touch anything that didn't belong to us!
***the stealing, yes it needs to be addressedbut your renting correct? The landlord should make those decisions not you.
Ok well two things. First off is the tree yours or the landlords? Did you purchase and plant the tree? Maybe if the landlord planted the tree he at somepoint let the staff take the lemons- you did not state this in your post, just thinking of other possiblilites before jumping to conclusions.
Second thing is your claim to be christian yet you are making a very discriminatory comment about you being in CA and so of course this man is Mexican and therefore he must be poor. That last statement in my opinion has no bearing in wether or not the man was wrong in taking the lemons from the tree.
Oh please don't fire him! I'm sure he got the message. Is your husband a Christian too? How about charity and forgiveness? They were lemons, not diamonds :(
How very Christain of your husband, he wants someone fired over a bag of lemons? It's not the same as stealing a personal belonging. I used to live in a neighborhood with lots of fruit trees. I saw a whole lot of fruit rot on the ground and in between renters next door I would go into the yard and pick lemons that would have otherwise gone to waste. Would you consider that stealing? They weren't really mine but I knew no one was living there and I would either use them myself or watch them rot.
This is one of those gray areas morally. You told him you use the lemons, I would think he won't do it again, end of story.
BTW while I understand that racial generalizations can be offensive, I think it's a pretty good bet that an undocumented, Mexican employee of a landscape service is not rolling in the dough. That assumption has a lot more to do with him being a recent immigrant from a country with a huge population of people living in extreme poverty than it does his ethnicity.
My dad always said someone who would steal something from you probably needs it more than you.
He said that 20 years ago, I need to remember to ask him if he still believes that. He had his GPS stolen out of his garage. No one "needs" a GPS.
I would have probably been like you, okay take a couple. I would have flipped a nut if he went for 20.
In my garden we have more than I can pick before it rots so I have told my neighbors this gate is always open, take what you need. If it ever hit a point where I didn't have what I needed I would readdress this but so far it works.
Thing is though since you rent you don't actually own the tree. Did you ask permission from your landlord to pick his lemons?
Im wondering if he had a name tag that said " im mexican and poor no doubt". Why would you automatically assume he was? I think since you are renting and you didnt actually hire their services, they might have persmission to take them? Did you check with your landlord?
Fyi, i am mexican ,i do not cut lawns for a living and i hire someone to mantain my yard, when i pay the gentleman , he has to struggle to take a wad of cash and checks out of his pocket to add mine to !! That doesnt seem very poor, then again i dont assume...
Wait? It's not your tree. You rent it? if it is on the rental property then you don't own it...does the landlord allow them to pick them? do you know this for certain?
What if the landlord said he wanted all the lemons, would you be upset with that? Are they still your lemons. I agree I would be upset, but can you use all of them? I think your assumption is right and he's probably poor, he should have asked if he could have them. I don't think he should be fired, and if the tree was there prior to you moving the maybe the landlord told him in the past you could have some lemons. I think just talking and letting him know you use the lemons too, that would be the Christian thing to do, I think.
Why in the world did you sit there horrified and then pray? Then follow up with a "confrontation". It would have been much easier and more kind to just go out and talk with him when you saw him start to pick the lemons and tell him that you use them. He didn't break into your house, he picked some lemons (and may have the owner's permission, you don't know). I would think your husband would have questioned you as you just you sat there "horrified" then "confronted" him.
Even if you re-posted without mentioning the Christian aspect or that you sat there praying, I would have questioned why you didn't just have a conversation with the man initially. I'm certain I would still think both of you completely are over-reacting and handled it poorly. You could have asked him for the lemons back or offered him half a bag...no need for the OC sheriff and confiscation.
added: You can spot illegal/undocumented immigrant from your home praying??? Maybe a job with the border patrol or the Dept. of Justice is in your future. My daughter is half Mexican, I wonder if you would think she is illegal???
I would be upset, not mad, but I feel that since you confronted him that is enough. I don't see that getting him fired is going to make anyone feel better, and if it does, how sad.
BTW, we have fruit trees in our front yard and so do our neighbors across the street. People taking walks along the sidewalk used to "help themselves" and we both put up signs saying "You may not steal any fruit," and it stopped.
When we rented a house in California with tons of fruit trees, our gardeners did the same thing. I did talk to them because they were filling bushels and I was squeezing them daily to make juice. We had grapefuit, tangerines, oranges, lemons, and it was awesome. I was torn like you too.
I hear you! We paid 3000 per month for the house we rented. We could barely afford the utilities and the water and electricity alone was about 600 per month. Drinking the juice from the trees was a small way of re-couping some of the money.
Well you confronted him, he seemed remorseful, if it were me I'd let it go and see what happens. If he does it again, then yes, I'd speak to the landlord but for now, it seems that it will stop. I obviously don't condone his behavior, and yes that was stealing, but he wasn't stealing jewelry. Additionally, we don't know the back story, as you said, and I think it's better to give him a second chance.
Here's what I would do. I would see if he takes anymore. If he doesn't, let this one go. If he does, THEN call the gardening service and tell the owner. You don't have to say 'fire him', but you do have to tell his boss that you won't put up with the man stealing from you, so the next time it happens you'll call the police and tell your landlord.
The manager won't want the bad publicity and having to deal with the police. He'll tell the guy. And I'll bet the guy doesn't ever do it again because he KNOWS that you will call his boss. After all, you confronted him and that means you have the chutzpah to TELL.
As far as being Christian is concerned, look at it like this. You are teaching him a valuable lesson to stop stealing. If YOU let him do it, if you enable him doing it, he might do it elsewhere and end up getting shot or knifed for it. So don't flinch from this.
Good luck,
Dawn
he probably didn't think you cared about the lemons, maybe he has seen a lot of wasteful people. You should have just said Hello, Those are my lemons, thanks for picking them for me would you like to take a few?"
To answer your question, no, I do not think he needs to be fired over the lemons. You confronted him, he was sorry for his actions, it is not likely to happen again. If it does, address it with your landlord.
As for your other comment, while I don't believe your intention was to be offensive, that's what came out nonetheless. As another poster said, his being Mexican or poor has no bearing on the situation at hand at all. To add that comment in at the end just makes you sound racist and like you believe all Mexicans to be poor and/or needy. I grew up in an area where migrant workers were very common, and I can remember as a child people saying that you have to watch them closely or else they will steal from you. I absolutely do not believe that, but many people were raised to think that way, consciously or unconsciously. My point is, you just should have left that last comment out, because it doesn't matter. I don't think you're heartless, but your words were a tad thoughtless.
You asked for our thoughts, so there you go.
I think he overdid it...but what the heck...he's not gonna sell them...he's gonna use them. Can't believe a Christian would be this upset over one of Gods' gifts to mankind. Also...I like had you had to throw in the part about $3500 a month for rent....yea you got it good....but not as good as me cause I owe my home outright...and I think I'm gonna plant me a lemon tree this summer and then give them all away to the Mexicans and any other poor people I can find.
Fired over taking the lemons? I wouldn't say so. I know it was wrong &
it wasn't nice but if we're going by the bible.....I would think it was better
to help this person.
Was he wrong? Yes and you mightily told him so.
Have you ever taken anything? Even a pen or liquid paper from the office? Got an extra dollar back in change at the grocery store and not told the cashier giving it back? It's all
stealing.
Madoff wasn't Mexican. He wasn't poor and he stole from people.
Btw, if we're quoting God, he would have said have love in your heart and let it go.
I now remember why I stopped coming to this website. Always choose to possess less rather than more. God loves the "Mexicans" too.
Our bishop from years ago told how he grew his testimony of tithing. He read and studied about it. He felt he could not spare even a penny but felt led to go ahead and make the leap of faith. He prayed and prayed. He knew he would not have money for groceries. He was a full time college student and walked to school every day due to not being able to afford gasoline all the time.
He passed a fruit tree every day that was so full the fruit was falling on the ground and rotting. He had watched to see if anyone was living in the house and finally decided it was empty. He would only pick up fruit that had fallen off and was going to rot. He never picked it off the tree.
He was able to pay full tithing and still no go totally hungry due to this tree. He was extremely grateful it was there.
So, the moral of my story is that perhaps your little tree was his blessing and even though you confronted him he may have thought it was okay. Now he knows it's not. If he takes them again then he is outright stealing, if not then he may have just misunderstood the moray's of your neighborhood.
Let me first say that I live in Houston and alot of the gardening serivce employees get paid pretty good. They are mostly family owned and operated.
Next, I don't think he should be fired over lemons. In the past have lemons on your tree gone unpicked and thus rotted? If so, he might have seen that and decided that it was better to take them than waste them. Also, your husband's desire to have him fired is overreating. If the gardener does it again after your discussion then I would address it with the landlord, if not, then why have the guy get fired?
I think you did alright but I don't think you need to get him fired.
A lot of people have fruit trees and they let the fruit rot on the tree.
Some charities will offer to pick the fruit so it goes to food banks.
He didn't know you use yours - now he knows.
His nationality, his socio-economic status, what ever he uses them for (he might sell them, make lemonade, etc) - it's all irrelevant.
Lemons are IMO very under-used...maybe he thought the same thing and figured they would just go to waste anyway? I would let it go. I hope your husband doesn't try to get him fired, especially in todays economic state where it is very hard to find work. Since it is not your tree (your only renting) is it possible the owner had told the gardners that they could help themselves to the lemons? If that is the case you guys might come off as appearing very petty for complaining about this?
~I grew up in CA amongst all the lemon trees and LOTS of them went to waste...as a gardner, he probably has seen this too!
Just out if curiosity, what di you do with all those lemons?
I think your response was perfect; you shared, while making your own needs and expectations known. Now that you know that the workers would like to take the fruit, it would be good to state up-front how much, if any, you are willing to share with them. And you're probably right that the worker is low-income. It's possible he's struggling to support a family, whether he's here legally or not. He's still a human being, and so are his children. He didn't ask for his station in life, or else he'd have been born rich.
We live in a lush country area, and have neighbors on two sides of us who have fruit they have welcomed us to share. We also have trees of our own, and happily share the surplus when we have productive years.
There are also many trees along our walking route with fruit that goes to the birds, squirrels and deer, or to rot. If it's clear to us that nobody is using the fruit from an unfenced tree, we will take some and leave some to the wildlife. There are bazillions of volunteer cherry and plum trees around here, and a few decent wild apple trees. We do live on a very low income, so this is one way to enrich our diets.
But if there is any question about whether a roadside tree is valued by the property owner, if it's on maintained property or behind a fence, we'll leave it alone. Even though it breaks our hearts to watch the fruit go to waste.
I'll bet that yard worker is terrified that he'll lose his job. And it may be routine in his line of work for low-paid employees to take fruit that they assume won't be used.
Well, here some Buddhism thrown in. The question is really your attachment to the lemons. You didn't want someone else to have the lemons without your say so.
I'm not Buddhist, just thought I'd exchange pennies. I was growing tomatoes, someone took them and I was pissed. Not because what they did was morally wrong, but because they were MY tomatoes: )
I'd leave Mexican out of it, and just say he's a thief. Gleening is when everything has already been picked and you go in and get the left overs that would have gone back to the earth. I'da stopped the guy the minute I saw hime, and given him 5 or 6 lemons from the goodness of my heart.
I think you did the right thing. It was a bit dramatic about feeling horrified but I think you did the right thing. I'm glad talking to him remained friendly, as it should.
As for all the people calling you thoughtless, rasist, etc. -ignore it. Giving details on the situation is fine and your assumption was correct. I think erroring on the side of caution (assuming this guy is poor) is the correct thing to do. What if you assumed he was rich, told his boss, and he was fired? COME ON PEOPLE-WHAT IS THE ACTUAL CHANCE TO BELIEVE THIS GUY MAKES A GREAT LIVING??? STOP BEING SO DRAMATIC. Assuming this guy is reasonably poor is probably correct and refraining from informing his boss is the right thing if he is only taking lemons. Even if this guy does make a decent living, is a citizen, has the resources to buy bushels of lemons, who cares and what does it matter? Am I to assume that all Hispanic people I see are well off, and legal just not to offend people. Get real. Given the comments on this board I guess I shouldn't tip the lawn service guy because he probably makes more than I do and just moon lights as a hard working person who could use a break ...sarcasm.
He or his family probably cooks with lemons as much as you or he wouldn't have taken so many. Maybe you can offer him oranges or some other fruit tree in your yard that you don't use. Now if he takes lemons again, I would speak to the boss.
Change services and tell them how much you cherish your lemons and if they are to keep their job.....NO lemon stealing.
Blessings...
