Drama with Neighborhood Kids

referring to the children as 'ringleaders' and passive-aggressive when they're just kids behaving the way kids do in groups tells me that yeah, you're a mama bear and need to back off.
i'm with the other mom. keep an eye on them, but don't get so deeply involved with every little peep and poof.
they're kids. learning how to deal with other kids is one of the biggest and most important functions of childhood.
khairete
S.

They are kids. I would let them work it out as long as no one is doing anything actually dangerous (that fire setting Fanged Bunny describes falls into that category). Good for the parents for letting the kids roam the neighborhood.

As a parent it is IMPERATIVE that you not be so emotionally attached to your kids' feelings. "it's really hurting me for my girls" ??? I'm sorry, I know you'll think I'm being harsh but you are the adult here, if you aren't their rock then who will be? Stay rational, keep your own emotions out of it and let your girls deal with it, even if that means they have to deal with hurt feelings.
If a kid never got burned they'd never realize how dangerous a fire can be.
This applies to friendships and other relationships too.
Momma bears don't keep their cubs too close, they follow a few steps behind. Your job now is to watch, listen, guide, console and care, and only step in when things get ugly or dangerous.
You need to get a lot stronger, if this kind of thing hurts you so much there's no way you're going to be prepared for the kind of drama and real pain that comes with adolescence. This is NOTHING.

My son is now the odd man out of the gang that runs our neighborhood, similar to yours. I talked with him and asked him one simple question, "were those boys really your friends or did you just hang out with them because it was convenient?" I asked if, when allowed to have a sleep over or when inviting kids to a birthday party, if he would have considered inviting any of those kids? He had to admit that no, he never would have invited them, and that helped him understand that he has real friends and does not need to worry about these jerks.
I know he still has times when these kids are running around that he feels left out, but we have all felt left out as kids at one point or another and we all survived it. The fact is we will not like everyone, and not everyone will like us, and not everyone is a good person we should want to be around. Learning all of this is just part of life.

I like the part about your kids playing with neighborhood kids.

I hate the drama though. I actually can't stand when parents get involved.

I mean, I get being involved with your own kids (advising them, and helping them set boundaries) but you guide your kids - you don't step in.

I agree - if your kids have their own friends over to play, they don't need to have the other kids come over. I know a lot of people do this and if they all get along, and that is what they want to do (the friend over should have some say) then that's fine. But it shouldn't be a given. Your children should still decide. A simple "No thanks, I have company over today" or say "We'll be out in an hour" .. kind of thing.

I agree with other moms too - neighbor kids are usually based more on proximity than maybe age/interests. There probably will be more upsets than kids they have genuine interest based friendships with. I always tell my kids they deserve to be treated well and fairly and if kids don't treat them that way - they can walk away. No drama, just don't have to be available.

I really don't like when parents step in though. Kids are kids. They can (and will) sort this out on their own.

I am a sensitive momma too - I call myself the momma bear but I want to have strong kids (tough cookies!) so I guide them not do it for them.

Good luck :)

Growing up my mom used to say - If Johnny jumps off a roof, are you going to jump too? Point is, your kid can hang out with the others, but if their behavior, decisions, drama get to be too much, she can and should know how to walk away. She can and should also know how to intervene or seek adult intervention if the kiddie dynamics or activities are getting too dangerous.

I got nothing but praise for pulling an alarm box and running home when the kids I played with set off fireworks in a dry leafy no mans land along the property line between some neighbors homes.

BTW- I think its great that your kid and this neighborhood and the parents allows for some of this free range play.

Best,
F. B.

You have too much invested in this. You are too emotionally involved.

You can't be there to fight every battle your children have and you can't make them feel better when things are not going in their favor by intervening with their friends.

Look at it this way... My now 20yr old had a few friends I didn't really care for BUT, it was not my job to ban her from seeing them. She needed to learn. My theory was like they are all a bunch of rough rocks and the more they interact and work things our themselves, the smoother EACH of them become.

I am not saying do nothing... Of course, always support your children, be there for them and keep them safe but you don't get in the middle of their interactions to fix it so you feel better.

They have to learn to fix things themselves, deal with people and different personalities because if they can't learn that now, then they won't be able to function as an adult down the road when they have negative interactions with people and not be able to work through it because Mom always did it for them.

I know it is hard to sit back and watch, I have been there but it is the best thing you can do for your children. Don't be a helicopter and micro manage all of their interactions with friends.

Ugh. Blessing in disguise.
Be glad you're moving soon.

When you find a house you like and you buy it and move in the crib and baby stuff you never imagine how the nieghborhood kids can take over y our life! This happens in every neighborhood in the country. IT always gets worse at this time of year as weather improves and the day is longer. And there's always one family with miserable kids.

Our little cul de sac of 12 houses have 4 families with kids all withing 5 years age. One family had two girls, the mom is nuts and her reasonable and normal husband works long hours and often Saturdays too. These girls has this "down-low" method of bullying all the other kids. If she was playing 2nd base during agame of kickball she's say nasty, miseralbe things to the base runners under her breath so we adults never saw it. It was a couple of years before I realized this girl was just evil. she stole things from my daughter, etc. My daughter would come in the house furious becuase of something the girls did or said - and I just kept reincofcing "just walk away" when they get like that - just walk away. Two of the times she turned and walked away they threw things at her - once a rock (not a small stone) and another time their roller skate! I also know these girls, as they got older, vandalized our house and car one weekend while we were away. They were foolish enough to only throw eggs on the side of the house and car that faced thier house - and all of the other kids & families were away that weekend too.

The mom - well - you never knew what to expect. Sometimes she's flip out at me, other times she'd call me to ask if the stuff her daughter had stuff in her jeans pockets were stolen from our house (yes - they were).

So we created rules - when these girls begn to get beligerant or bossy or mean playtime was over. If my kids were outside playing wiffle ball or 4-square of roller skating and it started upp - they would simply back out and leave the game, come inside. If the girls were at our hosue I'll simply call ou - OK - time for everyone to go home. Over the years I told the girls a few times, upon entering my house for the first time after some altercation - that we had house rules and this is what they are: no cursing, no name calling or being mean, no taking things that aren't yours, no hitting, etc. and if any of those things happen then play time is over and you'll have to go home. I was pleasant - I would be sitting down so as not to tower over them, I was as non-threatening as I could be.

Fast forward - kids are now in high scholl and college - the gang of kids never hangs out together anymore. All of the kids now have very different interests - fashion desing, business, musician, extreme skateboarding, football, computers, animals, etc. The boys are all still friendly and if given the opportunity would hang out together. The girls will say hi to eachother -but I think that's as far as any of them will go.

The neighborhood kid-interactions are tough, they are emotionally draining and can take over your life for a period of years - but it's temporary. While you're in that 5+ year period it feels like forever - but it's just kid drama and is a small way of teaching your kids how to deal with difficutl people. They are everywhere! At work, church, on road, in our families!

The last thing to remember is that even though this sister-brother ringleader duo are difficult - remember at this age it's not completely their fault. They are still little kids - they've only been on the planet for 8 years or less! They've learned poor social skills from their familiy - or perhaps they're just not learning any social skills! Be kind - but be firm.

this will pass - I promise. Now I see all these kdis driving, going to jobs, college, etc and I recall all those times of misearabel neighborhood kids. Thankfully some are sweet and good and their parents can be just a gem

While we now live in the woods in an area with big lots my girls spent their early childhood in a neighborhood setting. They bonded for life with a neighbor family, four girls we still see regularly. There were lots of other kids who they occasionally played with but never really formed friendships with.

As you can imagine there was sometimes discord between our girls & their true friends and the larger neighborhood.

Here are my suggestions...

1. Let them work it out unless it's really crazy or dangerous
2. Have house rules when they are at your place
3. Say No if you don't want certain kids over at certain times
4. No house hopping without prior approval. Ours were allowed to play outside or sometimes between two homes but we had to know where they were and what parent was taking responsibility "just in case"
5. Don't pay too much attention to the verbal back and forth, don't you have things to do? Enjoy your time while they're occupied
6. Tell them to leave when you or your kids are "done"
7. Make your home a fun place to be, like it's a privilege to be there. Hint: kids like to feel like there are some rules and they are not completely in charge. Without over analyzing and butting in you can express the idea that's it's your house and they are lucky to be there. Don't appreciated it? Go home.

You really need to rise above and your daughters will follow suit. When you are so wrapped up in that stuff it gives it power and kids feel that. Your vocabulary when describing these kids is very telling, you're coming at it from an adult point of view. They aren't adults, let them be kids without all that labeling.

When you move you'll have a clean slate, take advantage of it.

This is how my son great up - we had a bunch of kids in the neighborhood and the deal was that they were either at one of the 5 houses/yards or in an obvious place like the cul-de-sac on their bikes and roller blades. We all knew each other and had a generally good feeling about supervision. We left the kids alone. We did not supervise their discussions, arguments or decisions on "ring leading". If someone got his nose out of joint or got tired, he came home.

Of course you want to protect your kids. But that's not how life works. I know you don't like to see harshness - in fact, you're so worried about it that you even posted that you don't want answers that are harsh to you. I think you may be an extremely sensitive person? Do you get hurt easily? Did you grow up this way? Is that what you fear for your kids? I do feel badly for you if that has been your experience.

How is it that you think kids learn if they don't experience things? They are all experimenting with leadership (you call the other kids "ringleaders" but call your daughter "bossy") - so you know they are playing this same role at different times. Some kids are leaders, some are followers, some vacillate in between while they are learning and working it out. They're going to make mistakes in school, and that's why they practice with homework, right? To get things right over time? Well, friends and relationships are the same way.

But that's different from someone showing up when your daughter has a friend over - no, they don't just barge in and take over. You tell them that Mary has company and she'll play with the neighborhood kids another time.

I also think that kids gauge a lot by their parents' reactions to things. If WE don't get so upset and if we don't watch them every second of the day, then they have to learn, observe, adapt and react on their own. That's very different from keeping them safe overall - but running around the neighborhood in a group is really wonderful life experience.

You cannot micromanage children's relationships. If they are upset, you help them figure out what THEY want to do. You help them figure out what to say, when to come home, when to break from the group. You cannot, should not, and must not get so involved that you are getting hurt on behalf of children doing normal kid things. Your instant reaction to the donut thing is that her mother got involved and told the kids not to play with your daughters? I think it's a huge stretch to think that this mother is also so over-involved that she is dictating what her kids do with respect to yours.

Around here, we tell the kids to work it out, and if there's an argument, to say "sorry" and move on, to get out the bikes and the skateboards and the kickball and start a game.

I think you will be much happier as a parent if you stop labeling kids as passive-aggressive and so on, and stop looking at every single thing they do as "making it clear" they don't want to play.

Yes, you are moving, and that may be a good thing. But the same thing will occur in your new neighborhood if you view every child as a potential threat to your children's feelings. Kids have to learn to deal with things, and largely they do. You will be much better served and will have much more resilient children if you teach them not to take every comment, glance and action as a personal affront. It's just not healthy for you or for them.

Your child had a guest over at your house and these other kids barge in? Not cool. She needed to focus on her guest, and the guest ended up being drawn into these kids' drama (and wonderfully refusing to participate--that friend sounds like a keeper your child should see more often!).

The gang should not be welcome to be in your house or yard when your child has a guest over. Period. Teach your daughter to turn them away if they come to the door because "I've got company right now and can't play with you." If they just come into the yard when your child is there with a friend, she (with backup from you, I think you DO sometimes need to get involved) needs to ask them to leave. They are not going to like it. So what? It's time to get a life outside the neighborhood. It's not helicoptering to help her out if she is beset with these kids barging into her play dates with someone else. She needs to learn that her guest is her priority and these kids are not, and if she does not want to play with them but with her guest, that is the polite thing to do.

Your older child is plenty old enough to be in her own chosen activities that will mean she just has less time to run around the neighborhood any more. That kind of "fun" tends to peter out as kids get older and more into their extracurricular activities -- dance, sports, art class, scouting, whatever. If your child doesn't have outlets like those for making real friends who share her interests -- it's time to get her into some activities that she helps choose.

These kids in the neighborhood are what I call "friends of proximity." They are "friends" only because they live nearby and the kids can see each other without arrangements. But that's not the same as friends who share your interests and with whom you have shared experiences you get from being in the school band together, or in a club, or in a dance class or whatever.

Soon this is going to probably end on its own as the "ringleaders" get interested in other things. It's sad that your girls feel left out of this group but is it a group you really would want them involved in, if the kids are as jerky as you say? I'd steer them toward their own interests. Yeah, let them play with this group sometimes, and do NOT badmouth these kids in front of your own kids (that makes the jerky kids into "forbidden fruit" who are more interesting) but at the first whiff of drama, just remind your daughter, "Well, I'm sorry Sally acted that way. But you know, your friends at (activity she likes) don't act like that...."

Here's my advice to you. Take charge of these kids. If your child has a playdate with a child from outside the neighborhood, don't invite the kids in. They don't need to be horning in on your daughter's playdates.

And you need to get her more playdates. She should have other friends. Continue to work with her on bossiness. She should give her "guests" a chance to decide what activities to engage in at your house.

When these kids come over, step in when they are being inappropriate. You cannot be "held hostage" by these kids who "punish" your daughter when you tell them what to do.

I'm sorry, but it's your job to enforce the rules in your house. If you don't, if you let these kids "rule you", then you are teaching your kids that you will not stand up to them, that you will not stand up for your children.

Since you are moving, this will sort itself out. But you need to change your MO when you move to your new home. Be in charge. Don't let other kids rule your roost. Pay attention to them, as you have been doing, and rather than just be upset over their antics, control them. They are not "company". They are kids and when they are in your home or on your property, YOU rule the roost.

Your best bet is just to stay out of it. Set up play dates for your kids or if some of the other kids in the neighborhood come by then play inside or in the backyard. If the ring leaders come over send them home saying that you are pretty sure their mom wouldn't want them here.

The deal here is that you are just training your kids to not be able to solve social situations and as we know its important to be able to navigate the world on your own. If you keep jumping in to protect your child's feeling then you are telling her that she can't be trusted to deal with this herself. If that's the case then be prepared to be at school with every single tiff or calling her boss at work to let him/her know that your daughter's feelings are hurt.

Ditto Suz, Mamazita and Fuzzy.

The "ringleaders" are 6 and 8 years old -- they are only little kids.
There's nothing wrong with being a leader, someone has to do it. Try not to demonize their motives, they are way too young for such Machiavellian intentions.

I have had to deal with some neighborhood drama. My boys were about 9 and 11 and had made friends with a kid who was about 12. He was a BIG kid. Tall and imposing. My height (5'9"), and outweighed me easily (130lbs). At first I thought he was okay, but over a few months of the kids playing with him outside, I had heard that he was a bully, and would hit his much smaller little brother (age 6 or 7) because he resented having to keep an eye on him. He was not well supervised and seemed a bit emotionally neglected.

Over another month or so, I found out that my boys would get sick of him bossing them around, so they'd go inside. And this kid would just walk into our home without invitation or permission (my boys were old enough to stay alone after school, but I did not allow anyone else in the house). I told them to lock the door. The next thing I know, I'm driving up to my house and I see this kid running out my side door! He had watched T enter our garage code and used it to break into my house!

From that point on, this kid was not even allowed in our yard and the boys weren't to play with him (they really didn't want to anyhow, but felt like he was too scary to say no to). We had some serious conversations about how to say no, when to ask mom and dad for help, and how to back out of an unwanted friendship gracefully.

So. Fast forward to last summer. The boys had made another friend about a block away. They played with him a lot, but it quickly tapered down enough for me to take notice. I asked, "What happened with G? Don't you guys hang out anymore?" T said, "Sometimes, but he likes to start fights and argue and boss everyone around if we don't do what he wants. So we don't really go up there anymore."

Fast forward again a few months...I noticed that they don't go to play with G at all anymore. And same goes for another troublemaker up the road, C. "Hey, so what happened with G and C?" T: "Oh, G kept starting arguments, so we told him we didn't want to play anymore." H: "And C is really rude and disrespectful to his mom and grandma. We don't really like to go to his house anymore. And he hits his cat."

Aaaaanyway, I say all that to say this: Having an open conversation with your kids is more important and valuable to them than you stepping in and making all the decisions for them. Life is full of jerkfaces that we'd rather avoid. Right now is a perfect age to guide them toward establishing healthy boundaries and learning that they don't have to include the manipulative jerkfaces in their play.

Good luck!

Oh yes, we have the same issue with our neighborhood kids. The ages range from 2-9 and the older ones are bossy and sometimes mean and i was getting too involved before because i wanted my kids to be treated fairly but i had to step back and just let kids be kids. I was intervening to much and realizing that it was not going to help my kids in the long run bc mommy wont always be there to help them. I teach my kids to be nice to everyone and treat others with kindness and respect. I am like you, i have to be outside to monitor while my kids are outdoors but i do not get involved like i used too. If my almost 6 year old comes running to me and says "mommy johnny said i cannot play with them", i just tell him "well honey, johnny is 9 years old and he doesnt want to play with a five year old". You have to give them a chance to develop those social skills. As long as the other kids do not put their hands on my child then i just try to encourage my child to play with the younger kids. a few weeks ago, my DS was trying to ride the neighbors motorized 4 wheeler and the little boy who it belonged too said "no you cannot ride that" and pushed my son, and so my son got off the 4 wheeler and pushed him right back (he has my personality) and then the little boy came over and told me that my son pushed him. I said well you need to keep your hands to yourself and then you wont get pushed back. That was the only time i allowed that to happen. You just have to keep teaching them and telling them NOT to be followers and if someone is being mean or acting foolish, just go find something else to do. There will always be neighborhood drama with kids. Good luck.

If you don't have a back yard for the kids to play in then I suggest you find a way to make them a playroom. There is no way I'd let them go outside but maybe once or twice a week total.

I would dread summer coming up too. Have you thought about YMCA camp or something? I can't imagine living through this sort of thing every day.

K.M. I have lived this, too. It's not fun. I have interceded on behalf of my children because the situation was happening for such a long time. It was clear that not intervening was giving the ringleaders the sense that they could do what they wanted, completely unchecked. When kids are this age, and even a little older, they simply do not possess the social skills to be able to navigate manipulation, exclusion, and other passive-aggressive behavior. Adults even have difficulty handling these situations - just look at all of the questions on this website!

What helped me to realize that we needed to stop the interaction between my kids and theirs was when I spoke with the parents involved. They proceeded to treat us like my kids were the problem. I knew that things would not change. Instead, I keep my kids busy, active, and arrange play dates with friends who are truly their friends. It's worked so far and the lack of contact has seemed to improve relations among all of the kids.

You are not a helicopter mom--your kids are still quite young. I would not like your neighborhood. I would not want random neighborhood kids "house bouncing" every day. I don't want those kids in my house.

I believe there are ringleaders and I believe there are mean kids. Most mean kids have a very low self-esteem and a bad home life--they just take it out on other kids to make themselves feel better.

Be glad you're moving. Adios! From now until summer, just keep your kids indoors and your doors locked. Let your friends have playdates with non- neighborhood kids. Don't feel bad that your kids feel 'left out'..it sounds like a group I wouldn't want to be a part of:)