Does Grades and Behavior Go Hand & hand...what Do You Think?

I agree with the school's decision. My 6th grade daughter would have had all A's, but she lost 50% of her weekly participation points in once class for "excessive talking" She ended up with a B+ in that class. She was VERY upset, BUT we wholeheartedly back the teacher. She has always leaned overly social in school, and this was not the first time she was docked points due to her talking too much. This consequence really got her attention. Excessive talking is a disruption to the whole class, it also means the student isn't doing their best job by being respectful, working, and listening. All things that should be taken into consideration when they are graded.

It's probably a satisfactory way to get the parent's attention as well as the students. A straight A student with bad citizenship isnt gonna do the world any good. It seems fair to me.

I don't see anything wrong with lowering a test grade for bad behavior DURING the test. He should not have talked while other kids were testing. While your son might not have had a problem with the test other kids might have and deserve the respect of silence so that they can finish. That is why the rule is in place. And it kind of sounds like you are making excuses for his poor behavior. He was wrong and the teacher called him out on it which is perfectly ok. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned and he will not misbehave during testing again.

How would I handle it? I would tell him that he should not talk during a test and that rules are meant to be followed. I would also say that when we break the rules we have to accept the consequences no matter how unfair they might seem to us. What I would have never done is to side with my son against the teacher. THis sets up a lifelong response to authority-an "its not MY fault" mentality that will set a person up for failure and make them unhireable.

We got warned by the school that behavior/attitude would start to factor into points, scores, grades, etc. as they got into 3rd-4th grade. So we knew things like sloppy writing, lateness, not listening, disrupting the class, etc. would start to count against them.

Their theory was:
#1 We need the kids (and parents) to understand how important it is to be respectful of themselves and others NOW because you cannot teach this at 13 yrs old or 16 yrs old or 33 yrs old -- We need to make sure we get 'em young.
#2 Every time a teacher has to redirect a misbehaving child, the other students are missing out on the teacher's time and attention which is obviously not fair to them

Heck -- The kids in 4th are getting "detention" (which means no recess) for not putting their name on their paper. = )

I have no arguments against the approach. I could be the smartest most innovative employee but if I cannot deliver my work on time, be pleasant with colleagues and respect directions, policies, etc. then I am not the best employee I could be.

I see what you're saying but they DO need to learn that test taking is an individual thing--NOT a team sport!

Doesn't matter. It's the rules, and he should be behaving during the test, and once he does, there won't be any deduction. You could try convincing the school to change their policy, but I would direct the energy telling your son he needs to change his behavior. I would be adding consequences at home for misbehaving and getting the deduction, not just leaving it like the school did all the work. Being a good student is every bit as difficult and important as knowing the information. It all helps give him self control skills for the future. My kids aren't there yet, but it was very hard for me to behave in school, so I'm bracing myself!

-Just saw your update-as for the wisecrack about him being immature-sure, say something to the teacher about it. But you're still seeing this as all completely unfair to your son, when in actuality, he was not behaving. My teachers said all kinds of things to students who were acting up-in those days, they didn't have parents questioning the validity of everything on behalf of their kids like now. No harm was done by the teacher's comment, she was probably ruffled by your son's behavior, but by all means, let her know not to do that in the future.

My daughter recently got a "less than excellent" mark for class behavior, and when her teacher told me she had been "getting sticks taken away" (reward system they use), it was like she was afraid I was going to be mad at her (teacher) for it. I asked exactly what my daughter was doing, and she said, "Just pushing boundaries, it's normal at this phase and age (she's 4 in K4) that kids push boundaries now that they're comfortable in class and around each other and sort of copying the trouble makers...I said, "No problem, thanks so much for telling me and please let me know how she does going forward."
Believe me she got a "serious" talk in the car about respect in school. She was calmly and firmly told by her father and myself exactly what would happen the next time we heard she was not trying her best to respect the class. We let her know we had eyes in there and would be talking to the teacher to make sure she was being polite. Needless to say, she has gotten "extra sticks" for good behavior ever since. Was I really upset about the behavior? No. But she has to feel like we feel it's important and that her teacher is a valuable authority figure to set our daughter's school behavior going forward.

I think at this age, tying it all in is great. Later, when he's older and needing the grades for real tests and college etc, it will be separate, right now is the time to learn all the behavior stuff. We had grades for performance averaged in with work so they could bring down our over all grade when I was in elementary school.

Just to clarify, she hasn't already lowered his grades for talking? She is notifying you that she will in the future?

I personally have no problem with points being deducted during a test for talking. If he were caught cheating in upper grades or in college, he would be given a failing grade. This is just a less severe form of that consequence. She is giving you and him plenty of warning. At this age, his grades aren't going to be on any sort of permanent record, so I don't think it's necessarily bad that she's doing this.

My main concern would be is this an immediate enough consequence to teach your son not to do this? Will a third grader really care about getting a lower score on a test because of bad behavior? Maybe he would, I don't know.

But I have to say, I always hated hearing people tell me that I wasn't living up to my potential when I was growing up. "Potential" what and according to whom? How do they measure such things? Just because a child is "smart," does that mean if they're not perfect, they are not "living up to his potential"? If the teacher feels that your son should be a classroom leader (what does that even mean?), she should try fostering that in a more positive way.

You don't say how old your son is, but perhaps the teacher explained that there would be a point deduction for talking during tests to discourage cheating. If it were me, I'd ask the teacher about this, and how they came up with their policy before making any decisions. If this had happened to my son and he knew beforehand (if the teacher had previously explained it), I would expect that he knew what the consequence was and made the choice to accept the lowered point grade.

Don't forget, too, that part of grading is based on performance, so that may have factored in. Depending on the school, some of the punitive options you presented make the problem someone else's, so to speak: the child doesn't follow directions, and these punishments of staying in after recess, not attending field trips, etc. require that someone else watch him. Some schools have teachers rotate for recess duty so that they can take breaks (should the teacher have to miss a break because the child wasn't following directions?, and where do you put the child who doesn't go on the field trip?). Being sent to the office and being made the principal's problem is also problematic, one because it is likely reserved for more serious acting out and second, because principals are very busy. As for the phone call home-- some parents are hard to get a hold of, and this isn't the sort of thing a teacher wants to do-- to have to call a parent for something minor. Therefore, this may be the preferred option, to let your son deal with the consequence through his grade so that it doesn't impact others. I am not saying any of this is ideal (ideally, schools would be better funded so many of these dilemmas weren't an issue) but overall, do we want to spend that money having teachers more or less punitively babysitting, or actually teaching? Just some thoughts.

i'm with you. there SHOULD be consequences, and serious ones, for misbehavior. but it shouldn't reflect on his academic performance.
i'd have a sit-down with the teacher and see if we couldn't come up with something different. not because she's *wrong* but because it would be better to have something more effective.
khairete
S.

I'm a teacher and this year, our district brought this issue up for all of us to consider and revise our policies. In order to preserve academic integrity, grades should be a reflection of what students KNOW, period. It erodes that integrity when behavior is factored in because it in no way indicates what a child has learned.

We have been encouraged to thoughtfully deal with behavior issues with discipline and academic issues with assessment and/or intervention. I think it makes a lot of sense and truly, I think it has made me a better teacher, too.

I think that in school as in parenting, consequences for actions should be directly related to that action. There needs to be relevance in order to assist children and adolescents in their developing logic and understanding of cause and effect. When the discipline / consequence is unrelated, it is confusing and arbitrary.

*I just read your update - IMO, this is completely age-inappropriate and senseless for a child this age. It makes so much more sense for the teacher to discuss the behavior with the child and address it with more relevant discipline. It seems petty to have a child doing well and then reduce his rightly earned grades to "send him a message". The two issues are completely unrelated and chances are, he won't understand the connection.

I think this is worth bringing up in a PTA forum or perhaps an email to the teacher. I think all districts should differentiate between behavior and academics when it comes to grading and discipline. Everybody wins.

Sorry but I agree with you. I believe there should be some sort of consequence for talking during a test, but I don't feel that this is a logical consequence for that. For the record, I also don't believe that writing sentences or no field trips are logical consequences for that either...but that's just me. It sounds like maybe you feel better after talking to his teacher? If this happens continually I would probably talk to her and/or the principal about it just to make sure that this is an acceptable school policy. I do feel that "honor roll" kids should have to meet certain requirments in both academics and social, but this is maybe not the best way. I feel like the teacher is trying to do the right thing here, but the message is a bit lost in translation I think.

If he is in elementary school, I can see that maybe this would be ok.
Maybe it is a way to keep him off of the honor roll? Even then, this is kind of a strange way to grade.. I would prefer it be kept separate.. His grades need to reflect his actual work and comprehension.. I know good participation is considered part of a grade, but not sure this is what they mean..

This would not work in middle or High school when grade points need to be based on actual work..

I say wrong punishment if they start flunknig they give up and quit trying. my son did that. I would adress the school board for a diffrent form of punishment this is where the pta is nice to belong to

Hi, My:
Talk to the teacher and go up the chain of command.
Good luck.
D.

Absolutely not!! His grade should not be lowered now - certainly on college it would be acceptable, but not now. I would go to the school and fight it. I would also have a talk with your son, find out what happened in his words, and address his issues with him as well.

Your sons grades should not have been lowered due to talking, i would talk to the principle, obviously your sons listens during school and works hard to make these kind of grades, one should not affect the other. J.

There is no way that you sons grades should have anything to do with his behavior. What I really would like to address is the amount of pressure that teacher is putting on him. "She expects him to continuously be one of the leaders in the classroom. She stated that he's never been a problem child and she don't want him to start so she wants to nip it in the bud early." Really? What if he does not feel like leading? Honestly, can you imagine having to be the very best every single day as an adult, let alone as a child. AND he is the youngest but she still expects the MOST out of him?
Her disappointment should have nothing to do with his grades. How he answers the questions should. By "nipping" his behavior in the bud so harshly and randomly, she could be setting him up for frustration and worse behavior. If he is talking have him take the test in another part of the room, or when the other kids are outside playing if he cannot contain himself.

B. Davis

http://www.ChildAndFamilyCoaching.com
Because nothing is more important than family

I was in college, and my professor deducuted 40% off any test grade if a person's cell phone rang. I always muted my phone, but once it clicked on in my purse and my phone rang. Well, my grades were low and I failed the test due to that. I was hormonal and pregnant and cried and dropped the class.

So, I'm slightly biased, however, I do believe a FAIR amount of percentage could be removed if the behavior was during the test, depending on what the behavior is. After all, talking could mean cheating, and that could mean a failed test grade anyways, so it's good to introduce that early.

However, I think the teacher is wrong, in punishing a good student in such a way to 'nip the problem early'. All children should be graded fairly, I would be very upset about her singling him out, it would be a shame if he got a perfectionism fear complex out of it.