This question is actually being asked on behalf of my sister. She is a nanny (does not live with them) for a family with two children - 2yo and almost 5yo. The 2yo girl is fine, mostly, but the almost 5yo boy is a holy terror!! His parents describe him as "very busy" but my sister, who has worked with children in various settings for almost 10 years, feels that his "business" seems like it could very well be ADHD. This child also seems almost unaware of others around him - he's only aware of himself, unless you get down in front of him, touch him, say his name about 10 times and hold him still while you talk to him - otherwise he completely ignores you. She is concerned because he doesn't have friends, although they do many activities with other children. No one, children or adults, seem to like him because he runs around completely crazy all the time, despite my sister's best efforts, and is likely to plow into other people, hit them, cut in line, etc. He plays VERY rough and with only himself in mind. He goes to preschool 3 mornings per week and they basically have a one-on-one for him there because it's the only way they can handle him. My sister is concerned for when he goes to kindergarten next year. The parents don't feel he needs any sort of evaluation. They just blow it off saying, "oh that's mark, he's just in his own world. Very busy."
He also is extremely argumentative and almost never obeys any set of directions from anyone. My sister tries her best to establish clear boundaries and rules and be consistent about enforcing them, but the parents let him do anything he wants, literally. They will not say "no" to him. If they do say "no", then all he needs to do is insist and they give in. For example, yesterday he wanted to play wii, the mom said no it's time to get ready for preschool, he continued turning on the tv, she said no, he yelled, she said "okay, 5 minutes of wii" and went to get dressed, leaving my sister to deal with it. Any rules that my sister makes to get through the day with the kids, the parents overrule when they get home.
The parents spend almost no time with the kids, which can't help matters. My sister works for them 10-11 hours per day, mon-thurs, and they have another girl who comes fri-sun to help with outings and just to be around the house - they refuse to take both kids out without help because the boy basically needs one-on-one attention all the time.
Her question that she wanted me to post is... How can she best handle this little boy? Strategies and techniques? Any advice on talking to the parents about the fact that this is NOT normal behavior?
Thanks in advance!
**Edit: My sister has been with this family since September, so 7 full months. The preschool director is a friend of the family, and will not tell the parents that there is anything less than perfect with their son. My sister, though she talks with the parents in passing, has not felt comfortable sitting them down and telling them her concerns directly - she's pretty sure that they will be defensive and offended, It sounds like most people would suggest voicing her concerns though, so maybe she should just do it.
Hi, K.;
Contact someone with Restorative Practices for a Family Group Decision Making meeting at
###-###-####
web site www.iirp.org
Good luck. D.
The kid doesn't have ADHD, from what you wrote it's obvious that the parents have trained him to be this way.
You already said what the parents think about their son's behavior, so if your sister doesn't like it, her only choice is to put up with it or get a new job.
Look at www.oneweekparentingmiracle.com. This is a discipline program that has worked wonders for my two children, and has a section dealing specifically with ADHD children.
It sounds to me like this boy needs a screening not only for ADHD but for Autism as well. Probably nothing major, but still something that would help immensely in knowing how to deal with his behavior and helping him in school.
Personally, I would say the little boy's needs are the most important and your sister should gently tell them her concerns by creating a small case for herself. Find the symptoms, put together some facts and as gently as possible talk to these parents for this little boy's sake. If the parents can't handle hearing that he needs help, at least she has done her part to help him and can let it go. Good luck with this, it sounds like a very sensitive situation!
He sounds like he may have ADHD. My 8 year old has ADHD.
It maybe true that his parents do not play a role in his life and let him get away with everything, but it sounds like he has a lack of attention and focus among other issues.
He has no friends and likes to micromanage play. ADHD children act on impulse. They don't think before they act. He may not be thinking about the consequences of his actions (running into people, cutting line, etc.) and how other people react to him. ADHD children can't read social cues. So he may not realize that others are becoming annoyed by his behavior. It maybe a matter of no disapline and ADHD (or something else) combined.
Your sister must stick to her guns. She has to follow through and do what she says. ADHD kids thrive on structure and need consistency.
It is hard when your sister has one set of rules and the parents come in and totally ignore that and let the child get away with everything.
Your sister may want to look up ADDitudemag.com and gather all the information she can on ADHD. Then set down with the parent, with information in hand, and present it to them.
If the parents do not find the need for a evaluation there is little your sister can do.
Well it sounds like it could be ADHD, but the thing that I thought of was this...do the parents discipline him at all? It sounds like maybe their attitude towards that is a big lacadasical, and if it is, I'm guessing that is the problem! There was a post on here recently about whether or not disorders like this are over or misdiagnosed, and I think that in situations (potentially) like this is when they are. Many times there are just no rules in the house and the child runs wild and disobeys...that is not ADHD, it is just misbehavior from lack of discipline. If this is the case, your sister needs to be the one to set and enforce rules while she is there. She can obviously do nothing while she isn't there and that's okay...she needs to take care of herself and her time there! She needs to set up structure and have immediate consequences. If it is a discipline issue he will quckly learn that with Nanny he has to follow rules and with Parents he can rule the roost. Oh and since she's tried talking to the parents, I wouldn't try again right now. I would try getting a system in place and then going from there. When the parents see that she can get him in line, maybe they'll start asking questions. If she needs some resources, I LOVE Parenting with Love and Logic by Jim Fay and Foster Kline
To me this comes down to a fundamental question: can your sister stay in a position where a child's special needs are possibly being ignored (not saying they are for sure, but from your post it sounds possible)? By being there is your sister facilitating the problem, i.e. helping the parents ignore it? If so, can your sister live with that?
If it were me I would approach the parents firmly, and inform them that the child needs an assessment based on what I am seeing on a daily basis. If they refuse I would resign immediately (let them know that ahead of time).
The parents will likely hire a new nanny and blithely move on (hopefully this child will be noticed by the school system). But at least your sister won't have to live with the knowledge that she didn't try to help this child. The child is more important than the job imho.
This is just my mom opinion and not intended to sway your sister one way or the other (it's just how I would handle it if I were in her shoes).
Good luck to your sister and most of all this child.
Your sister is in a hard place. If she has suggested to the parents the child gets checked for ADHD or other disorders and that has been ignored.
The next question is how much control over his diet does she have? Some forms of ADHD can be controlled by removing certian dyes and foods from the diet. Do some research on the web or there are a couple of books out there she could read. This may be her only option it will not fix the problem but it should help.
If she has no control over that issue then she needs to talk to the preschool to see if they have suggested to the parents he get some type of help. I don't believe in medicating children but it also sounds as if it is something a little more than ADHD and the parents do not want to admit there is a problem.
How about the doctor does she take them to the visits or does the parents? If she has permission to take them to appointments and she spends 10 to 11 hours a day with the children she has the right to mention problems to the doctor.
GOOD LUCK to your sister
Sounds like your sis needs to look for another job. Yesterday. If she DOES express her concerns she needs to be prepared for an offended reaction from the parents. And more denial.
Best case scenario--when he goes to Kindergarten, he will be identified by the teacher as needing an evaluation. I personally believe the sooner the better, but as far as I know, in the USA, any un-informed schmuck who chooses to, can have a baby! I wish her luck.
As a former nanny, and now mother, I commend your sister's interest in helping the boy. However, it is the PARENTS' job to implement/adopt any of the suggestions (very good!) listed in the other posts. The PARENTS should be telling your sister how to discipline, what vitamins and diet to give the child, etc.
If the neglect these parents are showing the child makes it impossible for your sister to do her job, she should seriously considering looking for another family.
For her to do a lot of research on behavioral techniques, diet, etc, is wasted energy for her. She is not being paid to be a nutritionist, behavioral specialist, psychologist etc. He may very well need all of these services.
I know she wants to help the child, but the facts are, if the parents want to terminate their working arrangement with her for any reason, they will. As much as it feels like it, she is NOT part of their family -- she is a paid employee. I know that sounds harsh, but I have seen too many hard working, caring nannys come out on the short end of the stick. (It happens the other way, too -- families feel like the nanny is a family member and are devestated when the nanny leaves for another job.)
It sounds like your sister is very caring. I don't want her to end up getting hurt or stuck in a bad situation. And from what you've described... this is a bad situation.
I have a 6 year old girl with Asperger's, and he sounds like he might be an Aspie too. It sounds like your sister has already talked to the parents (or at least teachers have) without getting through, so I don't think there is much your sister can do. The parents choose to live in denial--easy to do since they're not around the kid much. The issue may get more forced when he goes to kindergarten. Maybe. The school may choose to ignore it as well. It's a shame, because my daughter is MUCH improved after a year of different therapies!
Sounds like he has Aspergers Syndrome
He sounds like my guy only worse. Does the local school district have any sort of early intervention program? They do here in VA. My son was referred by the preschool at 3 because he was the only one who wouldn't sit still during circle and chapel. He was still within normal limits and did not qualify for intervention. The parents still have to be on board though. I do know that routine and consistency are key as well. We have also found that timeouts, to him, are the worst thing in the world. He gets a 3-2-1 countdown and if the behavior hasn't stopped he gets a time out. He'll usually move on 3 now. I don't know how to get through to the parents, unless you know of someone whom they will actually listen to and have that person talk to them. Unfortunately without them continuing what your sister establishes, there isn't much hope. Good luck!
K.....It sounds to me like a NORMAL BUT UNDISCIPLINED CHILD.
1) "that's Mark..." ..Sorry, but I call that "lazy parenting".
2) There are no boundaries or limits at all. Rules or limits are easily broken, (NO consistency) The kid KNOWS that by yelling or reacting he gets what he wants (Ex, WII)
Sadly, the kid is not liked by others because he hasn't being taught or "shaped"..He needs LOVING but FIRM DISCIPLINE..He is like a little, crazy lion looking for GUIDANCE AND ATTENTION. He does not have that, and unhappily your sister cannot do more. She is doing what she can and is very sweet of her to do so..but kids need their parents (working or not) to be there with consistent, loving and healthy discipline.
Ale
Wow! It sounds like your sister has her hands full and I hope she is getting paid VERY well to deal with this little one. The first thing I would suggest is that your sister look into changing his diet. I know a little boy that had similar problems and changed dramticly with diet changes. His Mom elimated as much sugar as she possiably could from his diet....right down to fruit juices! There is tons of sugar in everyone's diet these days that we don't even consider; white bread, corn (yup it's actually a starch not a true veggie), fruits & fruit juices, processed meals, pasta etc. It's a hard change to make and everyone would have to be strict at first with it for the first couple of months, but the benefits are amazing when they start! She may also want to consider asking if he can be enrolled into a karate program...they teach focus, self-control and self-discipline. Any form of dance can also teach focus, self-control and self-discipline. As far as the parents, it sounds like they are in total denial and aren't going to listen to your sister...but she should try to talk to them. Otherwise if they live in a good school district they will be contacting them fairly quickly if he truly is as difficult as you describe. He may not have ADHD at all...he may just be a child begging for attention from the parents he both loves and hates....and is too young to understand his own feelings. You didn't mention how long your sister has been dealing with this child....or how many Nanny's he has had in his short life....that too could be causing his behavioral issues. Kids crave structure and consistancy and will always test the limits and if he has had lots of changes..... Best wishes to your sister and her charges, it sounds like they all need them!
i have 4 children ages 18 months, 3, 5, and 6 years. my 3 year old is just like that. i took him to be tested for ADHD and he was diagnosed as autism. High on the spectrum though. i am still working on further testing. the parents sound like they should not have had children. my husband and i only hire a sitter when we want to go out without the children. we take all 4 of our children out without help. we do it together and seperate, including the 3 year old. it blows my mind that they can't even take two out themselves. wow. i don't know what to tell you on how to deal with the parents. there really isnt anything you can do. i can tell you when he goes to school the school will notice and they will take it into their hands and do the testing, so just give it time i guess.
It's a tough call. It could just be a lack of discipline, but it sounds to me like your sister and the other nanny would be the main source of discipline since the two of them seem to be with the kids more than the parents during their waking hours. That being the case, I'd be more likely to think that it's more than that. Two of my friends have boys who act very much like that. One has been diagnosed with ADHD and the other with a mild case of Autism. I would definitely talk to the parents about getting him evaluated, just to be sure. They sound like they aren't going to want to hear it, though. And if they don't do it, the schools will most likely pick up on it and have him evaluated...depending on the school. However, even if it's a bad school, they will likely tell the parent to get him evaluated if he is a problem. Good luck.
This child needs to be evaluated once he is in Kindergarten. Ironically enough, the symptoms that present for gifted children are often the symptoms that present for children with ADHD. He sounds like he needs more challenging activities to keep him busy. It's worth a try.
After 18 months of my oldest in school, I knew there was something wrong. I, too, was convinced he had ADHD.. I was so concerned because he was disruptive in class, was disprespectful, and even started teaching the class sometimes. Lucky, for me, this teacher was patient and kind. She recognized that he was reading at a 3rd grade reading level and starting giving him more challenging activities. By the beginning of 1st grade, he was formally tested and was found to have an IQ of 140. Once he was given the opportunity to be with other gifted children, his behavior matured and he was loving school.
Another alternative would also be to check the home for any allergens. Molds, spores, etc has been known to lead to behavior problems in some children.
Hope this helps. The sooner he is helped the easier time he'll have. I'm sorry his parents are in denial that something is not right. Maybe helping them see the positive things that can come out of it will motivate them. It's not normal and it needs attention immediately.
Good luck!
I would only voice concerns if your sister is ready to leave the job. These people sound like they will fire her if she says anything since they avoid all responsibility and all the people in their lives enable them to. Theyu'll just pay someone else to take him off their hands.
His behavior is absolutely normal for a neglected and un disciplined child. His sister will have her own behavior problems soon enough.
It's very rough for your sister, because she really can't do anything real for him other than topical enforcements which will never make him easy to manage or give him the character he needs. At 5 he's getting too old for being set on the right course. If his parents give in to his bad behavior all the time, then that's all he knows how to do. He needs an entire overhaul of his home life, and he wont' get it. She may want to start looking elsewhere for work and let them know why when she puts in her notice.
I wouldn't press the ADHD thing. All these other factors could be causing that behavior, and even if he does have ADHD, he would still needs tons of love and attention from parents and firm rules, boundaries and discipline even more than most kids. People like this would probably just drug him and nothing else. I know a family like this, and the only attention the kids get is doctor appointments for their disorders, so they only know attention from parents in connection to their "defects" and are ignored the rest of the time. Also, at my daughter's daycare, most of the kids totally ignore the instructors until they call them 20 times, go get in their face and touch them and all that. They're allowed to ignore at home, so they do it at school to.
These people obviously don't care how their son acts anyway, so need need to add an angle that would need work and devotion.
Very sad story!
Encourage her to visit the website for ADDItude magazine (www.additudemag.com). It's full of tips for people dealing with kids (and adults) with ADHD and she may get some advice that can help her. Unfortunately, if the parents won't take the right steps both in managing his behavior and getting him in for an evaluation and possible treatment, it's going to be a rough road. Consistency is particularly critical with kids with ADHD.
Would the parents consider a vitamin program. I could make some recommendations that might help.
Has your sister actually called a conference with the parents? Not off handedly made a suggestion. She could do some research in your area and actually find the name of a good specialist. Try the book "The difficult child" and teach herself some good tips. You can't really blame the parents for not wanting to put their pre-schooler on meds. Research schools in her area that specialize in kids with ADD. Have that available for the parents too at the conference. If they see she is serious possibly that will help them make good choices to help their child and make kindergarten a positive experience.
