Different Kinds of Discipline When Timeouts No Longer Work.

Threes are so much worse than Twos. My youngest is giving me a run for my money. I started the "mommy timeout". When things get going, I simply give myself a timeout and walk away to focus on the other kids or other things that need to be done. I just tell him "mommy doesn't do tantrums" and walk away. That seems to work better than having a battle of wills with him. Good luck1

Take a look at "1-2-3 Magic", it's old but it works!

Good luck!

S.

PS: I might suggest that mommy gets some time out too!

Do you spend one on one time with her? Maybe she is feeling a little left out.

If you do spend time with her and she is acting this way, my suggestion is to take something away from her that she really likes. A game, doll, TV something like that. Since she is 3, start out slow. You know take it away from her for one day. Then if it continues, explain to her it will increase to two days.

She is testing you and committing to the punishment is crucial.

M.

I'll surely get a bunch of 'holier than thou' moms gasping at the very thought of it...but honestly, when it is my only option, a swat on the bum works! It not only lets my kiddos know Im serious, but it deters the same behavior later. Now, Im not saying beat your kids, seriously, so I don't need a gaggle of moms beating down my email 'door' telling me Im a bad mom. Im a mom of 3 boys and use realistic parenting. Im the boss, my kids are not. We have a very peaceful household and my kids are not afraid of me. The boundaries are clear and they seldom misbehave. Time-outs usually work well for us, but now and then they don't.

My opinion...

~L.

Hello Kelly!!

You have gotten A LOT of great alternate kinds of discipine to sort through and decide what might work best for you and your daughter (I, myself, subscibe to with holding toys and privildges depending on what the "offence" has been along with timeouts.)

The point I wanted to bring up for you to think about is this.... is it possible that with the birth of your baby girl that the discipline that your 3 year old was getting before the baby came has changed? Maybe it is more difficult to be consistant and maybe you're more tired and not as physically and emotionally able to give your 3 y/o as much positive attention as she had before the baby? I am just wondering if the reasons she is more "defiant and strong willed", she "won't listen to me anymore", and "time outs no longer have any affect" is that the consistancy has changed or that she is not getting enough positive attention from you.. so she is getting your attention by being negative. (And PLEASE don't think I am criticizing you!!! I have 4 kids.. and for some reason the hardest time was when we went from 1 to 2 kids. 3 and 4 were a piece of cake compared to 1 to 2. It is just really hard trying to find the balance after you've have the gift of time and energy with the first one!!)

No question she still needs to be disciplined when she misbehaves, but if we are not consistant and balancing discipline out with positive time.. no matter what kind of discipline you use she will still misbehave. (Also having 4 kids I have really changed what I discipline for. When you have that many... you really have to choose your battles. Once you say it, don't ever back down! But make sure it is a battle you want to fight for.)

Things will get better!! You're doing a great job! The fact that you are willing to reach out shows how much love your daughters and you want to make things better!
Peace,
B.

P.S. And if your are a Christian... never forget to pray!

blankie get the time outs at our house. She is attached to that thing all the time. but we also found that taking away TV, or a toy or another privelidge that works too. My sister had a problem with her 3 year old and they watched super nanny one night and she saw the kids being naughty and that they get time out and my sister just has to threaten once with calling supernanny and thats it! Good luck!

We are in the same spot...our oldest is 3 and the baby is almost 4 months. We were having an awful time with the 3 year old and time outs were not working. We started making changes to our discipline and it has worked very well. First, we still give him time outs, but they are not timed. We put him in his room and tell him he cannot come out until he is ready to behave/calm down/do what he is told. So he sits there until he is ready, which he does not like but gives him some control over the situation. We also started taking toys away, and at one point he had NO toys in his room at all except for his blankie (we even took that away for an afternoon here and there). Then we gradually began giving toys back for good behavior. We also are very careful not to raise our voices at him because as our anger escalates, so does his. We started this about 6 weeks ago. He now has all of his toys back and rarely needs time outs (only maybe once a day for minor things). Now all we have to do is ask him if he wants to go to his room and his behavior changes instantly. It is something you can try...it has worked very well for us. Our son is also extremely strong willed and stubborn, and has a quick temper. Since we started doing this type of discipline he has done a 180. We are all much happier. Good luck, I know how frustrating it is. And try to remember it is normal for kids to test boundaries, that is what they are supposed to do and it is your job to set clear and consistent boundaries.

Hi Kelly,I am a mother of a 2 1/2 year old and twin boys (2mths) and also a child and family behaviorist. We went through something similar in our house when the boys arrived. There are 2 keys to changing behavior, consequence and reinforcement. To start with reinforcement, make sure that you are taking EVERY opportunity to praise your daughter when she is doing what you want her to do and provide her with lots of attendion during those times. When she does something she is not suppose to do, give her a warning and let her know that if she doesn't do what you ask, she will get the consequence. When you give a consequence, keep your emotion out of it and stay neutral. Just give the consequence. Loss of privilege is good but at that age it has to be an immediate (such as turning off the show she is watching or putting up a toy she was playing with) and be prepared for some crying in response. I also think how you give instructions is important.
Actually i teach a class called Surviving the Toddler Years and beyond for parents. It goes over a ton of different ways to work with toddlers both proactively and reactively. If you are interested in more information, just let me know. Classes are held once per month. Our office is in rochester. Good luck - aren't toddlers fun :)

People who feel badly act badly.

Punishment does not work in the long run (you get immediate results but no long lasting change)

Time-outs used as punishment will not work.

Time-outs used to calm down and center ones self, time to feel better either through quiet reading, play, cuddling with Mom etc. WILL change behavior because typically a child will act badly because they need one of their 4 basic needs met. Remember HALT H= Hungry A= Angry (has there been some sort of altercation, or disagreement?) L= Lonely (often times kids don't get positive reactions when they are acting good, they only get reactions when they misbehave so are more apt to misbehave to get attention) T= Tired (is it time to chill out for a bit, perhaps cuddle with Mom or a lovey relax or nap?)

The old saying goes...."Terrible 2's"...."TRYING 3's" and.....FINALLY 4 !!

Isn't it fun?

Kelly,

Randy Carlson of Family Life Communications talks about taking things that are "important" to them such as videos, bike, games he/she likes to play, etc. I hope this helps.

T. V

We ran into this with our youngest daughter. We've put her in the corner, and that was ineffective as well - but worth the try. In the end, it was removing her from our presence all together that has done the trick. When she needs a time out/behavior correction we send her to her bedroom. She has to sit on the bed, no playing, and think about her actions. When she's ready to behave she can come back downstairs with the rest of us. She rarely makes it 3 minutes before she's back down stairs and is in a better state of mind.

I really like the book Gentle Discipline. It has lots of ideas of how to discipline.. I don't have a 3 year old.. so can't say I know much about this, but I really lik the ideas in the book.

I am not really answering your question.

But.. my kids are 18 months apart. When my 2nd child was born my first child was a terror. She whined and cried and was a monster for months.. But she got over it and she is a wonderful child again.

Having a new baby really upsets their little world.

I would try to really praise the good behavior and see if you can find some one on one time with her.

Maybe dad can take her somewhere special.

I know it is hard to try to divide your time between 2 kids.

It actually will get a bit harder once the baby sleeps less.

I only saw 1 or 2 posts that also recommended LOVE AND LOGIC- so I thought I would tell you that's what worked for us, too! "It's so sad..." is what we say when our 3 1/2 y/o daughter is doing something wrong & she knows that she will be sad because she's about to lose something she likes! She is much better now then when we started! She has been a good rule follower most of her life, but I think at 3 they just want to test what their limits are!
Oh, and do what the other mom said- get it on CD so you can listen in your car or while you're exercising! That's what I did!
Good luck!

How about taking away special activities, like TV or something? Good luck with the 3's. It's Terrible Twos and God Forsaken Threes!!

I really think that whoever named "terrible twos" didn't have a three year old. They are definitely more defiant and strong-willed, testing the limits constantly.

Like the other moms said, sending a child to another room has worked well for us. My daughter loves to be the center of attention, so sending her to her room is the end of the world. Another thing that has worked for us is giving her a choice, one on each hand and she has to pick one of them. For example, "You stop behaving that way and you can continue to play OR you can go to bed 10 minutes before your sister" She loves calling the shots, fortunately for us she hasn't realized that I am winning no matter which hands she chooses.

Hello Kelly, It sounds like sibling rivalry is your main issue here. Try rewarding her with your undivided attention when she is being good and ignoring her when she is being bad. Children will do anything for attention, bad or good doesn't matter to them as long as it is attention. Catch her doing good things twice as much as pointing out the bad behavior and you will be re-enforcing the behavior you want to see her do. Include her more in helping you "mother" like getting a diaper for you, etc. I got a baby doll for my daughter, and made diapers for it out of old towels, then put together a diaper bag for her to carry for it. This seemed to help. It is normal for a child to revert when a new sibling comes on the scene. Good luck.

Explain to her why her behavior is unacceptable. Reward her when she does right and explain then why.

Could also be she needs time out for a longer period to work out her emotions. Some kids just take longer to vent. But don't put up with it by any means.

We just went through this! I have Love & Logic magic for Early Childhood and the Love & Logic for Parenting books and they have made me feel like I am in control and capable of dealing with my daughter's behavior. Her brother was born in March and she turned 3 in June and there were days when I was like, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY LITTLE SWEETIE?!?! I had to teach myself to stop reacting to her tantrums and defiance and send her to her room "until she can be a sweet girl again." It's hard at first, but it's so much nicer when she's in her room screaming instead of in my face. I can breathe and collect myself. Some might not agree with sending a kid to his/her room, but it's never affected how my daughter feels about her room-- she doesn't associate her room with punishment and we've been doing this for several months. AND let me tell you, her tantrums have been much shorter. And now if I'm cranky, she'll ask if I need to go in my room until i can be a "nice girl". LOL!
GOOD LUCK! YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS!

I very highly recommend the book "1 2 3 Magic." It's for all ages. I use this with my 4-year-old son and it works like magic! You can purchase it from Barnes and Nobles for a really cheap price. Or you can go to the website and order online. They even come in DVD's. There are a few things to this process that I say you must stick with or the process will start to fade. What I think is so great about this system, is that you can even use it well into adolescence. They even have a book that you can purchase for your child that helps explain the new rules so they can better understand as well. If you have any questions, let me know. I'm sure your pediatrician can answer some questions too, I believe they are all familiar with the "1 2 3 Magic."

My son will be 3 on the 29th. He is very poorly behaved right now. My daughter was horrible when she was 3 but was fine by age 4. I think it should be called the terrible 3's. :)

My son hates to get his face sprayed with water. We have a little spray bottle that is filled with water. It is typically used to train cats. My daughter accidentally sprayed him one day with the spray bottle. Now.....even if I tell him that I will go and get the spray bottle, he straightens up. It sounds strange, I know. But.....you have to find what works for your individual child. The only thing that worked for my daughter when she was little was when I threatened to put her in her room. She hated to go to her room. Find something that your daughter hates and use it to help her behave.

Good luck!

Oh she is not entering it late, she's right on time! lol There is a reason its called terrible TWOS - with an S on the end! It might start at 2 but 3 and 4 are much worse! My daughter is 4 1/2 and believe me she is worse than when she was 2 for sure, it got bad right around turning 3 also! Sweet as pie one minute and a sassy lil thing the next :) I'll have to go through your responses to see if there is something I can try also. Time outs don't work here either! Good Luck :)

(Dear Moms - your kids, your rules - whatever works is what's right in your home) Although we have tried the swat on my son - and it made MUCH more of a difference when I did it versus his father (less is more, LOL) - I felt it was saying that to hit was okay to get his attention (not the message I really wanted to convey). What I did find that worked is to get down to his level and in his face, get his chin in my hand so he couldn't turn away, and tell him in no uncertain terms that his behavior was NOT acceptable. I then asked him what he could do that would be more acceptable.
Yelling (dad's way) has not proven successful IN OUR HOUSE - it leads to more yelling and hitting. Grounding to his room, taking away privileges, and binding him up in my arms on the sofa (at 6 it's a struggle) to talk quietly about the problem seems to still do the trick. The binding conveys that I still want to hold and love him, but he can't get away from talking about the undesirable behavior and we can problem-solve together (plus it calms him down).
Incidentally, last night he asked if we could have a family meeting about why he and Daddy fight over control of the TV - I was proud that he realized that discussing it was way better than yelling about it.

Good luck - it's a worthy journey when you see that you're making a difference in their coping skills.

Get the book Positive Discipline for Preschoolers.

When my son was about that age I would ground him to his room. Even though that's where all his stuff is, he hated it (I didn't understand it, but it worked lol). I also take away priviledges like favorite toys, tv time, etc. Oh and he HATED being sent to bed earlier than normal. I never really did the time out thing too much...it never really worked with my son, but groundings and loss of priviledges did. Of course at his age now....being sent to his room is a joy (he's 16)....but the loss of priviledges still works great...it's just different priviledges now at an older age.

Kelly,
We are going through the same problem. My oldest is 3 and the youngest is 4 months. Timeouts have never really worked for us but things got worse when the baby was born. We make sure to still have time with our oldest but when she doesn't listen or is mean to the baby we take toys away. And we start with her favorites! It might seem harsh but it is slowly starting to work. She is beginning to realize that when she is good we let her have them back so it's getting better.
Good luck to you and I hope this helps!
Jenn

try taking something away: example.

if you dont behave there will be no (her favorite tv program.). or possibly no playing with the toy she most likes to play with.

but then you have to stick to your word and not give in

also you can use try to reward for beign good.. if you behave we will go to the park.. or make cookies.. if you help me out we can all go to the park ..or somethign fun

My little girl is over 4 1/2 now and it really started at 3 also. My advice to you is to stay strong and show her that you are the boss and she is not going to win. When you say time out doesn't work, what do you mean?

My daughter would constantly get out, or sing and talk or change to a different corner. I would always first put on the timer (3 min. for 3 yrs old, 4 min. for 4 yrs. old, etc.) I would put her in the timeout corner and whenever she got out (on her own), I would start the timer over. ...And I stuck to that. It takes a lot of patience.
Mostly she would scream and cry that she had to go to the bathroom, but I realized this was a control thing so I told her she would have to hold it or pee her pants if she couldn't hold it, but she was not getting out of time out because she did something naughty and had to stay there. It sounds harsh, but she NEVER once peed her pants.
Just stay strong and the timeout thing should work. SHe will probably constantly test you. You just have to STICK TO YOUR RULES. We always talk about why she was in time out after she's done and she always says she's sorry.

Hope that helps!
C.

The books the others have suggested are good ones. I also started to have the kids tell me why they lost the toy or was put in time out. if they could not answer it for the age that they were then they lost the toy or had to go back into time out longer and think about what they did. When my kids were that age I would give them hints like what did you do? if it was that they hit someone or that they talked back and they told me I hit so and so then I asked why did you it them? they may say I don't know then I would ask do you like to be hit? I would get a no. then I would as well do you think they like getting hit? and so on until I knew they understood it was wrong to do and then I would make them say sorry to that person and then if it was a sibling I would make them give that person a hug and a kiss on the cheek as well. It helped a lot with my 3. they are now almost 7,9 and 12. As they get older the questions are harder. now they have to tell me why they did it as well. I also made sure that they were listing to me and talking with me. when they were younger they had to stand at attention which worked out well for me. hope it helps out some for you

Your library may have an audiobook or audio presentation of Love and Logic for toddlers or preschoolers. They probably have a BOOK, but the audio presentations are more fun!

And you can try putting her TOYS in time out, holding the toy hostage -- realizing they're losing a beloved toy goes a long way. Put it on a shelf where it's in sight and out of reach.