Did You Ever Grow Out of "Not Caring About School"?

As a former HS teacher and someone who also loved school, it is hard for me to say this. But you probably just need to let him fail. I wondered as a HS teacher how some kids "fell through the cracks" or were pushed through. More times then not though it was because someone else cared more than they did and they never really HAD to care becausw there were never really any consequences to not caring and for not doing their work. The other thing I would suggest is to find something that he likes doing (art, acting, reading, sci-fi, construction, horticulture, something) and harvest that! It may not be something the school offers, but find someway to get him engaged in an interest. He may just need to find his niche...and its better to find a positive niche than for him to later find a negative one! Best of luck! I know its not easy...but be there for him, let him know you are there, but that he has to take responsibilty for his actions and the results of them.

There is alot of info out there on the internet about this subject! There are many parents that are struggling with this same challenge, so know that it is not you and you are not alone! But, this can be serious!

Have you asked him (drilling down to the real answer...) how he feels about school, how does he feel when he does not complete his work, how does he feel when he gets low marks, how does he feel about his friends at school, how does he feel about his teachers, do they care......

Many children are feeling different things, but they are feeling like they are not understood. Trying to understand (really and desirerously) is a good first step. There are a series of great books available by googling love and logic.

Depending on what is at the root of his feelings, have you considered alternative schooling? What are his interests? Is he bored in school?

Be open to the answers... remember, he is not yours to control. Love, guide and accept him. Let him know you trust that he has a Divine knowing about what his passion and purpose is.... help him to remember it and bring it forth. Then support him in developing it.

My father used to tell us kids (there were five) that what ever we set our minds to, we could do. And what ever we decided to do would make him happy and proud if what we pursued was what REALLY made us happy. If being a garbage man was what really got us excited, then that is what he would be happy seeing us do... as long as it was really being driven by our passion. Do you know what his passion is? That is a great first place to start!!!!

Hope that helps.... would love to know if it did or not (as I have a website and am thinking on writing about this topic! So thank you for your time and question!!)

Here's to being a PassionParent!
C. Hiebel
www.PassionParent.com

Yes, you should just let him fail. Honestly. Otherwise, you will continue to be doing what you will be doing. If he fails one year and sees that he is held back and with a younger group and his friends move on, etc., etc., etc., most kids then start to pick up the pace. BUT, I've known some parents, whose kids failed one quarter/semester and saw that there parents didn't say anything about it and realized they were not going to bail them out or save them...and they started doing what they were supposed to do.

This conversation has been talked about many times on a love and logic group that I'm on and it certainly makes sense. I think many of them start the conversation off with the kid something like this: "I've realized that I've been hassling you a lot about your work and grades and I really shouldn't have because I know you are a smart kid. I just wanted to let you know that I won't do that anymore. I trust you and how you handle your school work." Then it at that and when he comes home with a bad grade, just say, "oh bummer! How sad." Sign the work and move on and not another word to him about it. He'll notice and be racking his brain over what to do when he isn't going to be saved by mom and dad.

Like I said above, some kids change right away and some kids need the rest of the year. Hopefully your son will will realize it quickly.

A.,I'm going in a different direction for my comments, but I think there is truly something underlying here since you say he has always been this way. It may be what others are suggesting,but without more information on him my gut tells me that he would like to succeed, but with constant nagging he can't and won't ever be able to live up to what you expect. Read that sentence again. Notice I mentioned Nagging and can't and won't. I know this is harsh, please forgive me, but your son must feel good about himself and then he would be self motivated. I just don't think he cares anymore about much at all.
Ask yourself these questions:
1.Did/Do I show him unconditional love every day since he was little
2.Did/Do I push him to please me
3.Did/Do I criticize even the little things
4.Did/Do I judge him without listening
5.Did/Do I use words that edify or destroy his self esteem
6.Did/Do I take time for him
7.Did/Do I say, "I think you are really great"
8.Did/Do I say "I Love You"
9.Did/Do I show that I really cared about his feelings as he grew up
10.Was I reared the same way by my mom or dad

Both his parents are equally responsible, not just you. If your husband is not positively involved with him then he is getting a double barrel of negative and a brain and heart full of "I'm not worth anything".
Another thought...too much computer junk, drugs or TV
I don't mean to sound so harsh, but here is a kid who is struggling. Find out why. Don't ask him just yet, ponder my questions, think about the last three things I mentioned as well and search your gut and you will discover tons you didn't realize.

My comments are not to hurt or judge you, but to open your eyes and ears.
I truly wish you all the best. Families are so important, but we have to create them in this fast crazy world.
Sometimes we get caught up and walk around in a daze.

Much love and care,
G.

Hi A.. I had a similar problem with my youngest son when he was in grade school and through his first year of middle school. The first few years we were lucky because the kid who lived behind us was in the same grade/classes and always brought his books home. So if my son "forgot" his books, we borrowed the neighbors. Then we sat over him to make sure it got done. Then he started to "forget" to turn things in. We also did the restrictions and found it didn't really work. During my son's 6th grade year, my job transferred me (and my family) to Costa Rica. So my son homeschooled that year. He was excited at first about the idea. Then after 2 months, he HATED it and repeatedly said, "I miss teachers. I miss school." When we returned home to SC, I reminded him of that. He did great in 7th grade (no problems!) and is doing fine so far in 8th grade! I'm not real sure what changed his attitude about it...unless it was having to do the homeschool. Sometimes you don't know what you got til it's gone (to quote an old band).

What grade is your son in? Here in SC, there is an online public high school that is free. It's called Insight School. You could always check into that (do a search online).

Hi A.,

I am the owner of a learning center. Many times the root of 'not caring about school' is really about 'avoiding' what is hard. While you say that he doesn't have a learning problem, there may be issues you are not aware of because people with learning issues are very bright and have hundreds of solutions to get around their struggles. This is mentally exhausting so by the time homework time rolls around, they are spent. Most of the clients that come to me have been given these labels: lazy, dumb, careless, immature, "not trying hard enough," or "behavior problem."

So all this to say, there may be a reason for the attitude. He could be covering up the fact that he is struggling.

L. www.readingquestga.com

OMG! You just described me at that age. I didn't care what grade I got and I NEVER brought books home. My mom would ask if I had homework and the answer was no every day. Of course I did just enough to keep the teacher happy and that was it. I thought it was all boring. That is until I hit 9th grade and the senior high school. That is when you can start choosing your classes. You could go advanced classes, business classes or tradesman classes like woodshop or metal shop. That is when I found school a little more interesting because it had to do with what I was interested in, not what they were shoving down my throat. Most kids I knew barely made the grade because of sports and things like that. Maybe your son just isn't interested in the subject matter. It's high school that the colleges look at so try to relax a little bit. You can keep working on him a little but don't push too hard. If he is stubborn he might push back and make his grades worse. I hope this helps at least a little bit. Oh and by the way. I went to a 2 year college and got an associates degree and I am the accountant for a small store while I am a SAHM. Good luck!

A., it is time for a reality check. My son went through
the same thing it also has to do with puberty, most teens(boys)resent hearing moms insisting or pleading them to do
anything it is called nagging by there generation. My son
was in a magnet program for gifted students he failed one
class and because of no remorse he was booted out, he did
not want to be called a nerd or geek. His dad stepped up to
the plate and achieved from that point. I don't know what
was said or done but it worked. It is time for your husband to step up to the plate and lead by example with wisdom and
guidance and not leave it all up to you.
Wishing you success.

Wow you got really great answers. I hated high school. I just didn't care. Funny thing is that I took a math placement test so they could figure out where I should go. I did so well on it, but the teachers that ran the algebra classes were scared to put me in because they didn't want a failure on their hands. Isn't that sad? Anyway, I got C's through D's and some F's. I hung out with the bad kids, even though I didn't do the bad things... you know, to get that reputation without having to do bad things. Long story short, I ended up in the military - USAF to be exact. I thought I could just scoot by in there and I kinda did. I got great grades in technical school/training, but wanted more out of the military. I applied to be "crosstrained" into another career field (supply wasn't doing it for me). I went through another tech school in Communications with A's & B's (pretty consitant with the B's - it was a tough school! LOL!). So really, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I eventually got out so I can stay at home with our kids (another story). I now have training, my GI Bill paying for college, and a meaningful life.

I agree with the poster that wrote about talking to your son about what the future holds. I'm not going to harp about the military as a cure-all... the military is NOT for everyone, that is why it's an all-voluntary force. Also, I did the homeless shelter volunteering while in the military and it does enlight a person to think about their future.

Good luck!

A., do you remember your favorite teachers in school? I am willing to bet that they are the ones that challenged you but made school fun. The simple fact that your son has made it through all of elem. school by "sliding" is reason enough to think that he may not have been challenged enough to care and it has simply become habit. I am not an expert,but I have worked with children more than most and i truly believe that no child does something (or doesn't do something) because they just feel like it. It isn't easier to not care and be disciplined for it. So my advice is to dig deeper. find out about your son and his life. I know it may take alot of time to do this, but that's what parenting is all about! Taking time and doing research to make their lives better and get to know them! Have your husband take on the task as well. together find solutions to make your son's lessons more fun and challenging. Say your son is learning about the presidents. Find a trivia game (or make one up yourself) and play it to teach him about those presidents. He needs to learn measurements? Get him in the kitchen to learn real world application. Inertia? teenage boys love this one- take him to a large, empty parking lot and practice the different ways to achieve inertia by placing stuffed toys and books on the hood of the car and quickly stopping. build and set off rockets. roll a bowling ball uphill and watch it go downhill. Make it fun and make predict outcomes, practice technique, and memorize. He will have a ton of fun (and so will you), he will do better in school, and he will finally have a reason to want to learn (what will the next lesson be?!!) good luck.

I haven't been through this personally, but I've seen a lot of responses from moms who said their kids grew out of this in college when they had more responsibility and more to lose. The problem is, if he starts failing classes now, he may not get in to college. And even if he does, he may not get scholarship money. So, I would talk to him realistically about whether or not he plans to attend college and discuss realistically how his current school performance affects his chances of acheiving that goal. College is getting more and more expensive, and entry to even public schools is getting very competitive, so this is really important.

A.,
You could be talking about MY son at age 7. My son did not care about school... In third grade he did not do ONE homework assignment unless HE was interested in it.

I have done all the battles and stood over and everything else you have mentioned, to no avail. My son has ADHD.

My son would "loose" it on the bus to just not turning it the work... classwork included. So I let the SCHOOL deal with homework/classwork issues.

Now, fast forward to today. My son is a junior in college with a 3.9-4.0 GPA... he has to PAY to learn and takes things VERY seriously. As I told my son, when he began college. "Don't piddle around and mess up, THEY (the college) HAS YOUR MONEY! they don't care if you don't come to class, They don't care if you pass... YOU have to care of it's WASTED MONEY from YOUR pocket."

Now with my daughter, she has ADHD and a host of other anagrams behind her name... that homework is a control issues for her. She doesn't do it, the SCHOOL deals with it. She is on swim team and if she does not bring her grades up, she doesn't get to participate in the actual meets.

Your son KNOWS the homework issues are getting to you and HE has the control. Take it back by saying in a sweet, loving voice, "That's ok honey, you're right, school is boring and no fun. You can practice your domestic living skills, by cleaning.... " or " You can practice manual labor skills by moving...." and have him do chores instead during his homework time.

My bathroom has never been cleaner. :oP

HTH,
B.

When I was in high school I just didnt care. To this day I still dont see why I didnt want to pay attention and didnt care about the grades I received. I now get straight A's in College and wish that I could go back and repair what I did. The BEST thing my mom did for me, which really worked on me, was require that I have my teacher sign off at the end of every week that I had done all of my homework for that week. If not all was done, I was grounded for the entire next week including the weekend. I did amazing in school during those times. When I got older she stopped keeping track and I slacked off. I wish she would have continued but that is my fault for my slacking off and not hers. Try it, it really did wonders for me because a kids freedom is everything.

I grew out of it during my second year of college LOL. I graduated High School with a 1.8 and college with a 3.5. My parents couldn't motivate me to do well in High School no matter what. It wasn't until I was working towards something I cared about that I started to care. Is there something he really cares about that might motivate him to do better? An extra special reward perhaps. Also try discussing careers and how hard it will be to get into college if he doesn't do well. Unfortunately he is at that I know it all and don't care age so he will be hard to reason with. Hang in there! Sometime, somewhere he will wake up and realize he has to take responsibility for his life.

Hello A. B. I heart goes out to you.

My suggestion is based on my witness account of what my cousin did with her son. She "randomly" asked him to write a list of occupations he would like to hold in life and things that he would despise doing. She wrote a list of what life consequences could be based on failing school or not doing well in school to include not being able to further your education without going into debt. After he created his list she scripted a story of his life as an adult after just getting by in school. She included the status of the economy and true-to-life situations, interviews, etc... where people receive break-throughs in life only to have them kicked from under them because someone more qualified on paper/knowledge/experience comes into the picture. They acted this out like a play. She discussed with him the disappointment he could face from having to take an unwanted job in order to support himself and/or his family and never gaining the opportunity to pursue the career of his dreams again. This woke him up a bit but didn't completely take full responsibility for his grades.

So, she followed up by taking him to volunteer at a homeless shelter. He discovered that there were several people who actually had experienced similar situations in their lives and were trying to get back on their feet without a good GPA and no technical school or college. She felt blessed that some of the people they spoke to were honest and candid with their stories so that he could really see what happens and that sometimes being hard on your luck is not a result of just the economy or societies ills. This helped him as well.

But what hit the ball out of the park was her telling him her own story. She explained that she goes in early and comes home late from work and gets very few weekends off to spend time with him because on top of work she is furthering her education so that she can attempt to get into the career field that she desires. She further admitted that because of her failure to strive to do her best in school she had to settle for employment that allowed them to live but that if she loses her job they could be just like the people they met at the shelter.

She drove the point home by speaking of their faith and explaining that God gives us talents that He expects us to use and when we don't He will support us but He is not happy with us and we miss out on the full scale of blessings God has for us. But when we do our best with what God has blessed us with He is happy with us and puts us in the positions meant for us and that will make us be at peace. Then she supported that by having him read from the parable of the talents. She told him that even if he has trouble with the curriculum God expects him to do his best. God has a habit of meeting you where you are and helping you the rest of the way, but you have to meet him.

I know this was a lot to do. I was impressed and proud of her for doing this with her son and sharing the experience with us. I now use the parable for my three sons so that they are fully aware of what I expect of them and what God expects of them. In addition, I follow-thru with all disciplinary actions and attempt to make the punishments fit the "crime".

I cared just enough to finish. Had no desire to go on after high school. I feel for you, it's hard enough to deal with a child that has learning issues (ADHD), but the attitude of not caring is the hardest of all.
We want our children no matter their age to excel in life. Middle School years are tough for most any student, your son is making it even tougher by the attitude. I think some children just don't have the drive that others do... I can't believe I'm suggesting this - but maybe working with a counselor in the school would help relieve you of some of the stress. Having someone to work with makes the pressure a little less.. My personal theory with my daughter (16) the ADHD student is that I can encourage her all I can, but I won't do the work for her. I can check on her, do follow up with teachers and encourage but I can't and won't do the work for her. Bottom line, she has to suffer the consequences - that is life. If your son just doesn't care, I'm not sure what your answer is... what motivates him in other areas of life? Use that to inspire his school work? Rather than take away - use his interest to get the work done.
I know my youngest son refused to read, his fifth grade teacher found his interest in nature, animals, and handpicked his AR books needed for a grade in reading. He read those and made his base limit on AR points, otherwise he would have had zero in AR(Accelerated Reading program).
I have found my daughter works better in the school environment than at home, in middle school they had an afterschool program that helped with homework - the requirement was that if she had homework she had to stay afterschool to complete or get help.
Good luck, and best wishes - I'll say a prayer for you right now - dealing with teenagers is hard enough. Oh, and by the way I totally understand your remark on raising an additional child in your husband.

M.
Mother of 4 - youngest - Jr in High School - my ADHD student!

Oh my! I feel your pain! I would seriously like to know too! I am fighting this battle with my 9-year-old in 4th grade! I was a good student too and can't understand this. I thought summer school would light a fire under her butt, but it only made her depressed. She started off the year convinced she was going to fail. Of course, with that attitude, she will! How do you overcome that?!

T.

Hi A., Been there, done that with my daughter. She is now 25. Motivating the unmotivated child seems impossible. As you have found out, punishment does not work! Also, he doesn't have to care about his grades as long as you care for him. My advice, Do your best to keep the emotion out of it and BE HONEST WITH ALL OF HIS TEACHERS about his lack of motivation. We found that after school studyhall (at the school) with no other students or distractions really made a difference. Above all, don't be affaid to allow him to reap the consequences of his behavior. FYI, My unmotivated daughter is a most successful and motivated adult! Try to relax and good luck. B.

Dear A.:

As he gets older it only get worse so you really need to get to the bottom of the problem. Once he hits high school it is very difficult to control what they do in school. Unless something has changed in the last several years communication between high school and parents is minimal. There must be something that he cares a great deal about. Ipod, computer, tv etc. If you are sending him to his room and all of these things are at his finger tips then that would be reason that he appears not to be concerned with punishment. I would start with taking away the most important things in his life with the understanding that if he does what he needs to do you will return them. If you stick to your guns it will eventually be understood by him that in order to keep what he wants he has to perform in school. It really is a matter of re-training. Also I would reward him if he does well on a test etc. Positive reinforcement is just as important as punishment.

I had a very head strong and difficult daughter which required that my husband and I take drastic measures to alter her behavior. She is now a thriving Junior in college. We, however, have never been able to eradicate the procrastinator gene.

R.

is it possible for you to sit down with him and do the school work along side of him? Partipate, make it exciting, maybe even make it family time? I know.. I know.. I don't have the time of day to get stuff done that I need to do and I do realize that what I am suggesting is going to be a bit crazy!

I wondered though, that if you made learning into something fun, that he can relate to if it would change his attitude. You know, if he doesn't feel much like reading... try the audio book version of it, or a comic book version of it. I haven't met too many boys who didn't like comic books... and reading is reading regarless of a few photos. OR- you could try incorporate learning into sports. Take basketball... every hoop tossed makes an arc, which is physics and science and geometry all combined.

And celebrate every little improvement he brings home. Congradulate him, let him know that you can see his effort and your proud of him trying. This might help too!

Hopefully this helps a little... Best wishes!!

I feel your frustration and I've been there/done that.

My youngest son finally grew out of this no care attitude - as a freshman in college. It took that long for him to understand that grades usually reflect efforts. I worried for years that my son would not get through middle school, then high school.

At some point during middle school we stopped nagging and started supporting. You supply a comfortable place to do homework, plenty of his own office supplies (turns out he could do better with a white board in his room that he updated with his assignments/tests)and the knowledge that he is responsible for his own destiny. He might "fail". It won't be the last time. He will find out there are consequences for not doing his work and that will be true forever. Mine also learned when he needed to ask for help, which is important to know for the rest of your life.

There are several good books for teens about school/motivation. Ask at your school library or the guidance office. They probably have them to loan.

My son is now two semesters from college graduation - He works, manages his own time/money/apartment/school (and girls). I am so proud of him. Your son can do the same. Good luck.

DUH - I am such a slow learner....After writing the above I realized this is from my perspective. I'll ask my son and get back to you...... :)

A.,

I feel your pain. My son is currently a 9th grader and I have gone through everything you described. It started in the 6th grade for my son. He forgot about assignments and lost homework on a regular basis. We tried everything possible punishment we could think of and nothing seemed to work. We changed his school this year so that he would be around other kids that are motivated and I have seen some improvement. We had to do something when the teachers said that his 8th grade class was the most under achieving class they had ever seen. The kids were smart but did just enough to get by. This could be part of the problem you are having. I agree that things change in high school. The class selection is better and the school activities are more interesting. My only advise is to love him unconditionally, continue to support him and pray for him.

I haven't seen anywhere in your post where you have talked with the school counselors. Every school has them and you can request to see them too. They just may have some help/ideas for you since it is more than one class/teacher that he does this for.

It's worth a try.

Good Luck!

That's a tough one - you can make him do his homework, but you you can't MAKE him care. Any kind of punishment or reward can get short-term results, but can't REALLY get to the heart of the matter. True motivation and passion comes from within. And human nature being what it is, sometimes rewards and punishments have the opposite effect from what you desire. (Like *having* to read, say, Huckleberry Finn for English class, rather than finding it at the bookstore and choosing to read it on his own.)

I read a quote recently (can't remember who said it) - something like "Education isn't so much about filling a cup as lighting a fire." Is there something he really is passionate about? When he goes to the planetarium show, or a museum, or the zoo, is there something that really gets him interested? Is there a way to feed into those strengths? Many people who are very focused and single-minded may be able to thrive as adults, because in the adult world, you *can* (for the most part) just focus on one thing and get your PhD in literature, research nuclear physics, bake wonderful desserts, build custom cabinets, play the guitar, whatever! But while they are kids, there is still an expectation to learn (and be somewhat interested) in many areas. And it can be difficult for some kids, sometimes even the brightest, most promising ones.

So see if you can figure out a few things he's really passionate about and make sure he has enough time to spend on that. Fill the house with books that interest him and maybe see if you can leverage his strengths into other areas. (Like doing math drills are boring, but if a sports buff is using math to figure out batting averages and other statistics, he can see the point of it and he'll have an incentive. I've read that many children in poor countries who have to work as street vendors become very savvy in arithmetic and math at a very young age (at least enough to do their transactions), even though they don't go to school. They've got a very strong incentive.

I want to share a personal story about my grandparents trying to motivate my father. My father was an engineer and was always reading books about physics, science, and engineering. It was something he enjoyed so much that I never understood why he hadn't ever gotten an advanced degree or persued research. I mean, he spent most of his working years in decent engineering jobs, but... considering how bright he was, I think he was a bit of an under-achiever. Many years later, I learned from my mom that his parents (my grandparents) always had *very* high expectations for him, and they actively managed (or "nagged", like you said) to make sure he did all his homework, got good grades, etc.
He never liked an argument, never much of a rebel, so he just did the work. And he was valedictorian at his school, and I'm sure my grandparents thought they did an excellent job of "motivating" him. But it was all external. And went he went away to college, he really struggled. He had always been working hard for someone else, but not whole-heartedly. I think he just got burned out too young, and my grandparents never really saw that - they saw the valedictorian and college grad and just assumed he was sucessful. So... I guess this is a very long-winded way of saying be careful about how you try to motivate him.

There are only 3 reasons your son might be doing this. First, because he has an undiagnosed learning disability that is holding him back in some way, making him feel like the standards are too high for him to meet. Second, because he's not challenged enough in his classes and it's hard to come up with internal motivation to do things that you know you could do in your sleep but some annoying adult wants you to prove you can do. Third, and most likely due to your statement "Punishment has never really bothered him" -- a situation with which I'm very familiar as a parent -- is that he is depressed. Clinically depressed, chemicals out of balance, with or without one or more precipitating events. Depression can be crippling, especially in terms of motivation, general energy level, clarity of thinking, and blunted emotions (leading to "I don't care" or "It doesn't matter anyway" attitude about punishments and rewards). All of these things can be tested for and addressed with pretty straightforward approaches. You just need to know what you're dealing with so you can then choose which path to take, and the sooner the better, whichever it turns out to be.

You've gotten some great suggestions so far like take the emotion out of the picture, make sure you try to understand how he feels about all of this and keep good lines of communication with his teachers. Now here is my suggetion-natural consaquence. Let him not do his work and not care and let him fail at school because of it. Maybe when the threat of having to take 7th grade over again will give him the wake up call that he needs. It is also still early enough in the school year that he could make a turn around and get his grades back up. Let his teachers and principle know the road you are taking as well so all the adults are on the same page. Do we want your son to fail? Heck no. But have you tried every other way of getting him to understand how important school is?? Yep and it hasn't sunk in to his 'I know everything and you don't head'. Well, maybe he doesn't have that attitude yet but it comes with age.

Now I've gotten this advice from 1 2 3 Magic. I use it on my 8yr old, 3rd grade daughter with her chores. When she doesn't do one of her chores, I get paid to do it!!

Good luck and I hope you with the help of his teachers can pull him out of this rut!!

S.