Child's/Parental Rights?

I would use all my legal rights as a parent & get a restraining order. Make this woman leave her child alone! If she doesn't let her suffer the legal consequences of her choice.
She needs to get a note book & keep a ledger of what is said time & dates.

If it continues, it may be considered harassment but I doubt that the District Attorney's Office would prosecute.

It certainly qualifies as a neighborhood disturbance and the police may respond to a call from your daughter. Advise her to call the non-emergency number if she decides to call. If she calls she should tell them that the problem is ongoing and that she has tried talking with the woman without success. In the meantime, advise her to keep track of the day, time, and particulars of each incident. It may also help in getting a response if she can truthfully say that she is somewhat frightened by the woman's tone of voice/actions.

First, I suggest that she talk with the management so that she is sure to understand the rules and know if it's possible that she and thus her son has inadvertently broken any rules. Also, the management may know this woman and be able to put a stop to it on their own.

If these actions don't correct this woman's attitude and behavior, your daughter may be able to enlist the help of a Neighborhood Mediation Office. Portland has one. I don't know if Beaverton has one. The police department information line would know the number if there is one. The woman can refuse to attend a meeting. If she does, I would call the police. If they aren't able to respond, I'd ask their advice. Budget cuts has reduced many services that the police formerly performed such as responding to this sort of call.

If I were your daughter, I too would be upset and would find a way to stop this woman's actions towards my son. Your daughter is being reasonable and the woman is not. I'd first talk with management. Then I'd wait a week or so and see if the woman continues confronting my son and if she does I'd call the police or the mediation office.

I think this depends on the situation. If the little boy is being loud and is wrong, then the Mom needs to speak to him...........ON the other hand if the lady is just being a busy body with nothing to do but cause problems, then I think your daughter needs to go to the apt. management and tell them that this woman is harassing her son and that she doesn't like it........

There are always two sides of a story.......the boys could be a little louder than they should, but they are kids, or she is just being a pain.......

If the Mom can talk to her and talk nicely, then they should talk first..........if they can't then let management sort it out..........Is this woman yelling at anyone else? Or just picking on your grandson?

If push comes to shove, and your daughter thinks this woman could be dangerous, then she should call the police.......

Take care and good luck.

I, as well as others in my complex, have had this same problem with the non resident mother of one of our adult neighbors. She yells at everyone, kids adults, doesn't matter. She yelled at my daughter a total of one time. I went to the management office myself, instead of letting her do it herself like she threatened to, and they told her that if she did it again she would not be allowed on the property, and her daughter could be evicted. She has however yelled at my adult guests that they don't belong here. So myself and a couple of neighbors involved the police. Two of them had restraining orders taken out against her. Her daughter lives right next to me, and she is her babysitter, so I told her if she ever so much as said hello, even politely to ANYONE, coming in or near my apt, I would get the restraining order and she wouldn't be able to be in her daughters apt. That ended my problem immediately, but I think it was more her daughter telling her to stop because she need her to babysit, and if I got the restraining order she would be able to come within 100 feet of my residence, and out front doors are literally a foot apart.

I agree with Marda....if there is a management office for the complex I would definitely go to them and find out first of all if there are some "rules" that your son is inadvertantly breaking. If that is not the case then I would discuss the situation with them and ask them if there is a "board" or something as part of the complex that you can take your concern to. Above all, remain calm, I have a feeling that if your daughter becomes agitated that this woman is going to just ramp things up another notch. Tell her to this is a teaching opportunity for her child, let him see the correct way to dissolve disputes.
Do you have any idea what your grandson was doing when these comments were made by the neighbor? Of course, if he were doing something might hurt himself or others, then it was right for the woman to speak up. But, from the tone of her response, it doesn't seem like this was something like that. My guess is that the woman just simply doesn't like children....sad .

I don't think she has a legal leg here, unless she really thinks this is harrasment. The other tennant has a right to enjoy her appartment, so the discussion will probably need to start from that angle, is she totally off base in her complaints? That would probably be based on the complex policies, if there are any, so I would tell your daughter to start there. If in her lease there are specific rules about noise and use of the common spaces, and she has her son listed on the lease as an occupant, and none of her sons acitivities violated what was specified, then your daughter should complain to the complex first about the behavior of this woman, but she does not have the legal right to keep her from speaking to anyone, even an unaccompanied minor. Most of us know that speaking to a minor is not a good idea, given the way our world is now, and that children have been trained not to speak to us anyway, so "should she?" NO! but legally, she can speak to anyone she pleases.

If I were your daughter, I would be sure that I knew exactly what my son had done first. If this is a crazy person, then I would approach it from that angle with the complex, and see if they can mediate a solution for her. I would be asking for that solution to be written, and then make sure that my son was in total compliance with that solution. Then, if the woman has further complaints, call the authorities to document the contact as harrasment and pursue a protective order because of suspected instablity of the neighbor. Then, your daughter could restrict the contact between this woman and her son and has a legal leg to stand on, and she looks like the reasonable party in the conflict too.

M.

If your grandson were in harm's way or causing harm to someone, I would hope that you would want someone witnessing that behavior to say something then and there. You don't say what it is that your grandson is doing that he is being spoken to about. Maybe he's not abiding by rules and he's without supervision, so the 'neighbor' is taking proof to the property mgr of the situation, the pictures. Kids need to be told when something is wrong at the time rather than delaying the talk as they don't make the connection. Giving a time out 4 hours later for throwing sand doesn't have the impact that taking them out of the sandbox at the time the first handful was thrown does. That's an example, I don't know what the circumstances were/are, but then neither do you or your daughter if she wasn't present. Too often these days, kids aren't told when they do something wrong and we are reaping the results of that inaction, lack of attention to their behaviors. Unless there are timely consequences, there is little or no improvement in behavior. Kids will test the boundaries and will misbehave to see how much they can get away with and as long as parents/guardians come to their rescue when they 'get caught' misbehaving, their lack of respect will escalate because Mom and Dad will believe them and save them from themselves.

This behavior doesn't rise to the level of harassment. Unless the woman has been identified as a sexual predator, she can talk to your grandson or any other child for that matter. Your daughter and you can instruct your grandson to not talk to strangers, to come home when approached or if they feel uncomfortable around them.

Find out what it is that your grandson has done to warrant the neighbor's actions. Find out what your daughter is doing when he's outside playing. Is she out there watching him or has she observed any behaviors that she would call 'boys will be boys'. If you weren't his grandmother and you saw him misbehaving you would probably call him on his actions.

It takes a village to raise a child. Your daughter is very fortunate that she has a neighbor who is willing to be involved in her community and who keeps an eye on the kids who live there.

From what you said it is hard to say. If my child was truly misbehaving, I don't have a problem with someone telling him to stop it and coming to get me (if I wasn't right there). If he was just breaking a minor rule, that person should tell me and give me a chance to correct it. If this lady is just being a busy-body then your daughter should speak to the property manager/landlord.

I've lived in several apartments both as a single and with my son and I have NEVER had a neighbor come out and yell at any of the kids in the building. Taking pictures of other people's children without permission is just very creepy as well.

Being older is no excuse in this situation- if anything, an adult should know better how to behave!. Unless the children were doing something illegal or destroying property, that does not mean the mother was being lax or the kids were doing anything wrong. To assume as a poster below did that the children have 'no manners' when a strange lady is TAKING PICTURES of them without their parents' consent and yelling at them is really sad. Kids playing a little loudly is one thing- taking pictures and harassment is a totally other level, IMO.

I would not tolerate that for a moment and would call the police.

For an adult woman to say that she will not 'go out of her way' to tell a mother when she is unhappy about something and will berate a child instead is crazy. That sounds both threatening and bullying to me- she just doesn't want to deal with another adult, but she knows she can intimidate little kids.

As long as children are allowed to play in the common area, it isn't after 10 Pm at night and your child is not damaging anything, I don't think this lady has a leg to stand on. Perhaps your daughter can ask other mothers in the building if they have had similar experiences? That way when she goes to the building manager or calls the police, she would have other moms as backup.

Most women get between their kids and anyone objecting to or correcting behavior. It's just instinct. That doesn't mean that the offended neighbor doesn' have rights. Mom needs to teach said child to play (misbehave) on home turf and if neighbor is offended or disturbed, they should speak to mom and not child. If the living arrangement is an apartment complex, neighbor has the right to peaceful living and should (and probably will) 'share' dissatisfaction with the management. It would then be their call to talk to mom. If a child is doing something objectionable often enough to push a neighbor to start taking photos, mom needs to think twice about getting defensive and teach the child some manners.

It's really hard to answer since we have no idea what the woman was taking pictures of your grandson doing in the first place. WAS he misbehaving and disrupting her life? Whatever the case she should have started her complaints with your daughter before going elsewhere or escalating issues.

Since living with kids in an apartment complex can be difficult sometimes. My daughter lives with her three children in a small townhouse complex. From day one she has told them not to stomp up the stairs ,don't bothering other residents while they are at the pool, and basically to respectful to others in the complex. Her children are 3,4,and 6. They run around and play but know its a grandma's where they can make tons of noise outside.
You didn't say how old your grandson is. If he was disturbing this woman I think she has the right to calmly ask him to be quiet. Then go over and explain to mom that he is bothering her and to please ask him not to disturb her. Then she and mom could have a quiet rational discussion about the matter. If he continued whatever the problem then going to the office would be logically. Maybe she is a complainer and is well known in the office. I think your daughter should sit down with the office staff and see if they can add more to the picture. Why she felt the need to take picutes is probably from her complaining and feeling nothing is being done so she wants to show the office who the kids are. Thats why i think the office can shed light on this for your daughter.
Your grandson will learn you have to work at getting along with some people in this world. Have your daughter use this as a teaching tool for her son. Make lemonade out of the sour lemon situation.

I think Marda's advice of being proactive in both addressing the issue to the Management, gaining advice from local law officers, and possibly seeking mediation are all spot on.

I just wanted to comment that there are a lot of gray areas. You don't mention the age of your grandson, nor the complaint of the other tenant in question. Several things came to mind when I first read this.

First, living in a communal-type area such as an apartment complex does involve a lot of in-the-moment problem solving. Certainly, this tenant should not have been taking pictures of the child. This sort of restriction SHOULD be brought up with the management; there should be some sort of privacy guidelines. Unless one is recording a crime in progress or criminal activity, there's no reason to be taking pictures/video of any other person without their/or their parents express permission. I would certainly advise your daughter to bring this up, as I have the feeling this may occur again with other tenants.

There's a lot of give and take, as I said. Something I've learned over the years as both a nanny and mom is that there are a lot of children playing in a relatively unattended way at parks and in public areas. I call this 'relying on the village'--when we send our children outside to play without our presence (that is, outside of our sight or hearing), we are more or less trusting the world with our kids. Sometimes, we don't like the results. I have joked with my neighbors that if my son (when he's much older) is doing something unsafe or disrespectful, "please, yell at him" rather than letting him continue doing the dumb, rude, dangerous thing he was doing.

On many occasions, people have chosen not to attend to their children, and have become angry with me when I've chosen to make boundaries with their child. When a child, unattended, is acting out, it's not appropriate for the other adults to let it continue. I've gotten the stink-eye from more than one parent who was angry with me for parenting their child when they simply couldn't be bothered because they were across the park, too wrapped up in conversation or of the opinion that *their* child is never the reason for conflict and doesn't need tending to. I am very age-appropriate and guide in a non-punitive way, and if I'm walking your child back to you, it's because you weren't parenting your kid. Period. I don't feel badly about it, because someone has to watch the kids and if you are forcing me to watch your child, that was your choice.

If it were me, I'd also make some agreements with my child about where it is safe to play, give this woman's apartment as wide berth as possible, (no need to goad) and come up with a plan to follow if she becomes upset at him again. She may have other problems (physical or mental health issues) that your daughter isn't privvy to, but might want to assume she has, as this woman has questionable skills in resolving conflict.

If it were me, I'd also just come out from time to time and 'peek' on the kids playing. What kind of activity is going on? Maybe the kids are being too loud or disrespectful outside of "mom's" eyes. The problem with not attending our children is that we don't actually know what's going on when these incidents are happening. If a child is younger, they need to have an adult present, period. If they are older, acting more mature and showing good judgment on a regular basis, that's when I'd be more comfortable in letting the children play on their own. Every parent has to know their child enough to know when they are capable of monitoring themselves without constant adult supervision, and every child has their own time for this. (Even kids who did fine alone for a while sometimes regress and need adult company from time to time.) There's no fool-proof age for this.

Hope this resolves itself soon! The weather's too good not to play outside!

I would go to the office myself. Unless your grandson is being outrageously loud or running around the complex unsupervised, he does have the right to act and behave like a child. The woman really just needs to remember what it is like to be young. I would tell me daughter to be proactive and approach management first before they get the story from a cranky old bitty. My parents are snowbirds in AZ and we have seen quite a few people who get older and lose their tolerance for the young. Its really too bad as children can be such a joy. If it were my son, though, I would take the time to review acceptable levels of play, just to make sure.

I would talk to the apt manager. Clarify with the manager that your grandson is allowed to play where he was, at the time that he was. Have this written down for you. I would ask that the manager talk to the other tenant about this and if your son has done nothing wrong, make sure this lady knows this. I would write down dates and times that she yells or has any altercation with your grandson. I would let the management there know you are going to be documenting her harrassment of your grandson, and if she does not stop you will be contacting police and or a lawyer about what you can do about it. There are something called tenants and manager's rights and responsiblities I read years ago. I would try to find a copy, and read exactly what your daughter's rights are about this.