Cause for Concern: a Friends Child

If there's something 'off' (for lack of a better word at this moment), it's not because he hasn't been exposed to stairs or because they treat him like a baby.

If it were me, I wouldn't say anything. It's a little early, and if you're wrong, it could cause problems.

i hope someone does say something to her. sounds like some intervention may well be called for. but probably from someone who is actually neutral, not someone who considers that she has 'bad parenting skils.'
because that will absolutely come through.
khairete
S.

My second and third children did not speak much at 26 months. Lack of speech is not related to intelligence. He could be shy or maybe he has a speech delay that needs some intervention. Kids that age can obsess over certain toys. My daughter went through a phase where only blocks would do. And most 2 year olds do not play together but just play aside each other.

Is there something wrong with this kid? Maybe. But tread lightly before suggesting something to this mom. I personally think something is wrong with my niece and nephew but I would never say anything because she would take my head off. If she asks, then answer in a way that doesn't suggest a diagnosis and refer her to her local infant and toddler program.

Unless she directly asks you?
Mums the word.

Don't explore it! She knows something is off, she will make the journey. The worst thing you can do is share links and go all I know it all.

Cheese and crackers Gamma!! Idiot savant!! it is called echolalia! Ask anyone with a spectrum kid and they will tell you. For my son it was the Scooby Do theme song to the point where I hate that cartoon now! We had to block cartoon network when he discovered Ed Ed and Eddie!!

My son didn't talk for real until he was nearly four. Perfectly normalish now.

Yes, you have cause for concern, Im going to sugar coat it. Just remember- better safe than sorry and intervention before 3 is of the essence.

My DS is 3 1/2 and can pick up a spoon but cannot get the food to stay on it or get it into his mouth, he's hungry so I feed him. He cannot manipulate a fork yet. He eats fine with his hands. This is something we work on in OT. He also cannot walk down the stairs without me holding his hand because due to poor motor planning and core stability he falls easily. He can crawl up the stairs but not walk and I still have to be right there because again with the poor motor planning he can turn around at any moment and fall down the stairs- we work on it in PT. Your friend is adapting to her childs needs not creating them. No one wants to have to feed their 2 year old I promise you. And trust me, you don't have to "expose" you child to climbing or stairs, these are activities that come naturally in a Neuro Typical child. The mother isn't keeping him from progressing and it isn't because she isn't socializing him. Everyone always blames the mother. She's helping him to be safe and comfortable in his world.

The ABC and counting thing are repetitive behaviors that are his way of self soothing and he also shows rigidity. The fact that he does not make eye contact is another red flag. He is into books and puzzles but not parallel or interactive play, he is not curious about his surroundings (play room)- more red flags. At the parties or in your house visiting with lots of people around which he isn't used to he separates himself and absorbs into a book or iPad and with a secure person- the activity motion and noise are overwhelming to him and he needs to focus and isolate to feel good. At 2 we would go to parties and spend the whole time in a bedroom playing because it was just to much for DS. We'd go out for 5 minutes and then come back for 30. Today he can tolerate a party for about 30 minutes before needing a sensory break- huge for us.

Does this child point to objects of interest? Does he share exciting things with others?

There is a difference between being shy and being socially introverted to the point where you don't leave your house and that you are impressed that he likes you enough to actually visit- big indicators on the dad and Im certain there are many more.

Yes, my son has pretty much had every single issue you've mentioned and a few more at the age of 2 and still has many of them as Ive mentioned. At 15 months you'd never know anything was wrong but by 18 months in addition to the above he was not talking and just had taken his first step. These 2 things are what the pediatricians notice- walking and talking when suggesting that something might be wrong. If the child walks and talks on time the other things go unnoticed and its up to the parent to alert the dr. and tell him she wants an EI (early intervention) evaluation.

To look at my child you'd never pick him out of a crowd that there are issues but there are. He has Sensory Processing Disorder (defensive) which is a spectrum disorder diagnosed at 18 months. If we hadn't started ST, OT, PT back then we wouldn't be where we are today. Out in public you'd never know a thing but if you know where to look you'd see the nuances, like I do in your story. The only things are that he is walking and talking but my husband had all of the things you describe and walked and talked early too and ends up he has Aspergers. Theres a wide range on the spectrum.

Your friend may already be in EI but doesn't want to tell you about it. I didn't tell my best friend until recently but she knew something was up for a long time. I urge you to read about Aspergers and SPD (defensive and seeking) and then talk to your friend. One or two things might be in the NT range but when you have so many pieces to the puzzle you've got to check into it.

Best of luck.

I would think her pediatrician would pick up on something like that at his well child visit, especially if he doesn't make eye contact with people. I think I might refrain from saying anything, if he is showing signs of autism she may already very well know it and just be uncomfortable talking about it just yet. Especially at a get together with a group of friends that I hadn't seen in a year, she was probably just hoping for a happy time- not a discussion centered around her kid being a little "off". I would let her come to you for support on this when she's ready.

There are very few people who could bring something like that up to me with out me getting upset, probably only my own mother, doctor or teacher. People get very sensitive about their own kids and hearing anything negative- even though your intention is positive. You know your relationship best though!

I think he's normal for him.
There's a WIDE range for normal.
2 yr olds - heck even 3 yr olds - don't actively play together.
They do something called parallel play - they play side by side.
And for a long time they grab each others toys.
Around 4 or 5 they get a lot better at playing (but there are bumps along the way - they hate to lose anything, will tantrum even if they lose playing Candyland, etc).
Our son wanted to sit on my lap till he was about 3 1/2 yrs old and then he was fine running around with friends at parties.
I don't see anything to worry about.

If you decide to bring it up, I would refrain from suggesting possible diagnoses (Autism, Aspergers, lack of socialization, bad parenting, etc.).

I would only say that in your limited experience his behavior and abilities seem to be a bit different than other toddlers you've observed, and maybe that warrants talking to her pediatrician.

Do NOT make any reference to a diagnosis! Teachers are not supposed to make reference to a diagnosis and we spend many hours with a child, and see many children in a certain age group but we should NOT attempt to make a diagnosis. What we can do is state facts "I notice he doesn't feed himself" and then listen quietly to see if she says anything. "I notice he is hesitant on the stairs. Don't you have stairs at your house?" That's all -state facts and see how she responds.
many two yr olds know their letters, many are reluctant to explore unfamiliar places or talk with people outside of their close family. Do NOT compare him to your children or "average" children. Listen. If she brings up any concerns or asks you if something seems normal, say, "if I were you I would talk to Early Intervention, they are the experts"

You may wish to just have a chat with her. It's not as if you know that this is , or is not, within the typical range of development. It's just that you observed behaviors that you are not familiar with for a child this age, and you wish to share your observations with her. If your friend also is questioning these behaviors, then encourage her to check in with Early Intervention. The absolutely best part of EI is that questions can be pursued and services offered, by personnel trained in a wide range of behaviors and abilities. Please try to suspend any speculation about parenting, because this just muddies the water, rather than providing clarity.

I would be concerned.

Regardless of how introverted Dad is (and Dad may be on the spectrum too... who knows)... it isn't normal for a child (introverted or not) to not look at you when you talk to them. Even an extremely shy child. This child was in your home for 4 days and he didn't look at you when you spoke to him. That's not normal.

I wouldn't view this as a parenting issue at all. I would, however, be concerned about the child having some sort of brain function difference. Whether it is some level of autism, or something else. I'm not a doctor, so I won't guess what else... but I don't get the feeling (from your description) that this is a parenting style thing at all.

It might be that they have adapted their parenting to their child instead... perhaps, if she didn't feed him herself (while he recited his letters or whatever) that he would stress out and tantrum uncontrollably. Who knows why she was doing that. It might not be her babying him so much as her accommodating him. Ya know?

There a few people I would want to hear 'concern for my child' from because I know they are saying it from a 'I want to help place' and not finger pointing place. Use your best judgement because pointing out differences is a touchy subject when it comes to someone's kid.

Also, if this is her first born everything he does is special and normal to her. It is very hard for first time parents to see their child's gifts also as something that is less than normal.

Some kids I know who are stuck with only a mom (no siblings) chomp at the bit to be around other kids, so he is unusually to me for not following the other kids. I do recall preschool telling the parents that it is normal for the kids under age 4 to do parallel play.

I think the most objective fact you mention is the lack of eye contact. You can tell her you notice his lack of eye contact and for her to mention it at her baby's next doctor's appointment. Let her know that since you have 4 kids you know it is important to get it check earlier than later.

In 5 years from now do you want her to to be dealing with a diagnosis and hear you say "I didn't want to say anything to hurt your feelings, but I always thought that. Glad you finally found out."

He sounds very much like my girlfriends son, who is on the autism spectrum. He is the same age as my son, and up until the age of two he seemed to be developing at about the same rate as my son, but after the age of two the differences became more and more apparent.

I would suggest to her to contact her local Early Childhood Intervention program. It's free from 0-3 years old if the child needs services, it's also nationwide, just called different things in each state. In Texas it's called ECI. It may just be personality but there could be something going on, it's worth her checking into.
My son ended up with a speech delay and has been in speech since pre-school. He's caught up to speed but was not wanting to talk at that age either. He's shy at first, has came out of his shell a little, but always has liked to play.

That's kind of you to notice all that and be concerned.
It does sound a bit off.

I know my cousin's child (autistic) was obsessed with letters at that age and taught himself to read very, very early. With intervention he is now in a regular classroom. I would think the pediatrician would ask all those questions and refer the parents to intervention if needed?

But a lot of it sounds like my son. He won't say anything to you (he'll be 3.5!) most of the time. He is shy. He will just look at you (but he will look). Won't really play with kids he doesn't know. Has a very introverted dad as well. He would hide at parties.

The best thing would be to guide her toward talking with the pediatrician about this. It may be his normal, given his environment, but it is important to alert his pediatrician so this can be assessed and monitored.

So child has done a 180 on behavior in a year? In my opinion? Not normal.

Since you seem to be close friends with her - are you going to say something to her? Is that what you are looking for? What to say to her about your concerns?

No. I've never seen a 2 year old be solely focused on the alphabet and numbers. It bothers me when I see parents pushing things on their kids to strive to be better, etc.

A 2 year old should be feeding himself. But then again, a 2 year old should know how to walk up and down stairs, again my opinion. Not exposing a child who lives in a two story home to stairs is foolish in my opinion...but who knows...she seems to want to keep her baby a baby...

dad won't help because he's an introvert. Mom will probably be blind to the behaviors and if you say something - she might get pissy and not talk to you for a while.

Good luck!

To me it sounds like he is showing autistic patterning. In todays age where there is so much help and therapies out there almost everyone can be labeled autistic. But the point is there is so much free help out there that why not got him evaluated and take it from there.

I have a friend who also can use some parenting help (can't we all) but when the right time presents itself i try saying things to her. The way I do it is by including myself for example i would say "yes parenting is hard, i had a hard time with my son as well but i realized there are so many different programs out there to make it easier

My son did not speak much when he was this young, but he did know letters and could sit on his own and play with blocks of books for a very long time. He read very early. He was shy and tended to like being on his own. However, he would eventually warm up to other kids and when around adults he trusted, he way just fine and happy and bubbly like babies should be. He is our first, so we did not have anything to compare him too, so it wasn't until he went to preschool that we started to notice that he was "different."

So this little boy might have an issue or he might be an extreme introvert, especially because of the dad being like that. As my son grew up he was fine, very academic and although he did not enjoy socializing and did not have a large group of friends, he did participate in sports and student council. He is just now starting a new high school for highly gifted kids (many of these kids are ready for college academically when they are 13 and 14) and we just went to our first parent meeting. Some of these kids are on the spectrum and some are not. Some are complete social butterflies and some are like my son, introverted not because they have a processing problem, but introverted because their minds are focused on other things. It was amazing to see these kids who might be odd ducks in everyday circumstances become chatty and boisterous when they found other kids who could talk about particle physics and the like. Then they were able to move on to other topics. Imagine living your whole life never finding people who "get" you and then finally finding that group. That is kind of what it was like.
So, you should try to talk to your friend, but maybe tell her my story too. My son is different, but he is not on the spectrum. We were told he might be by a preschool teacher and later spoke with a doctor, who clearly and concisely explained what was going on with our son. At least if you talk with your friend, she can ask her doctor and start to get answers and some help if needed. What everyone says her about intervention is absolutely true.

What you're describing sounds like a idiot savant...I worked a lot of years in child care and don't remember any of my 2 year old kids knowing the alphabet or anything like that.

I will say though, knowing a song is not knowing anything but a tune and some words. Knowing what a person is holding up and understanding what it is is totally different than singing a song.

If this child actually can read a letter and tell you what it is then they are advanced for sure.

Some 3 year old kids can't tell you what letter is what but they can recognize their name on an item if they've been practicing writing it.

It is the other behaviors that concern me. Not making eye contact tells me either he's not been taught to do that by anyone he comes into contact with, strangers, other kids, his parents, day care providers if mom works, eye contact is learned.

As for playing with kids. A 2 year old could still be in parallel play mode even at that age. So playing with someone isn't all that concrete all the time, they may simply stand by other kids but not be playing "with" them, just beside them, parallel.

Dad may have some autism too. If he hardly leaves their home then he's teaching this kid to be like this, perhaps, and getting kiddo out and with others might help him learn. But if dad can't handle it then kiddo won't be going anywhere.

If this were me I'd suggest some sort of Mother's Day Out or some sort of play time that's with the same kids day after day. That way they'll get to know each other and that would mean more chance of wanting to do something together.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idiot%20savant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome

I think he has not had a normal upbringing. It's essential to expose children to a lot of different scenarios, textures, visual experiences, etc. They need fine motor skills (developed with puzzles, drawing, turning book pages, etc.) and gross motor (exploration, climbing, walking, kiddie cars). They need someone to read to them, not to teach them letters and numbers, but to expose them to language and images and sequential events. They need to go on nature walks and pick up rocks and bring them home to paint them (paperweights for Grandma!). They need to pick up leaves and explore the different colors and shapes in the fall. They need to play in the snow. They need to go to children's museums with lots of tactile exhibits. They need to hear music, sing and dance. It's hard to "make" a kid use words, but they don't need to anticipate his every need so he never has to try either.

Shy kids don't make eye contact or respond. Some are reticent to try new things or overwhelmed by crowds. If this child likes to sing, they should have other types of music in the car and on the home speakers. They should learn, and play, all the finger-play songs with motions and words. Learning how to put words together in a song is a helpful step in using sentences.

I'd get him off the iPad and out of the house, whether Dad comes or not. Too much flat screen, push-button activity makes a kid think there's nothing else. And if he pushes a button and something happens, he didn't have to verbalize a thing. Why would he think talking is important? And an isolated sedentary child will think a room of toys is foreign and overwhelming.

Mom should take this child to the children's museum and the library story hour and the free puppet show on Tuesdays and whatever else her comity offers. She should take a bucket and go for a nature walk every day, bringing home interesting "finds". She should put him in the stroller and walk him around the pond and the park, eventually putting him on the swings and the small slides. And yes, there are other kids there - he's too little to be told to "play" with the others, but she can start up conversations with others kids and other moms, sit down with a shovel in the sand, and so on.

If he's picking up on her concerns and Dad's reticence, he may be less of an experimenter. She should have more fun with him and get him out in the world. It may take time for him to really interact but she can't stop. Her town probably has early intervention services, but from your description it doesn't sound like this child has had nearly enough social experiences to know what to do.

That is a tough one. My son didn't really like to be around other kids until he was close to 3. They just didn't interest him. He did like toys though. I remember once I took him and my daughter (she is 2 years older than my son) to a play ground and he was more interested in exploring the empty benches around the play areas. Fast forward a to age 3 and he bloomed into a social butterfly! Talks to everyone, plays with all children. It was an amazing transformation.
You say Dad is very introverted, so some of this may be a lack of socialization. He may be acting like his dad does?
I, obviously, don't know the kid and haven't seen him. I might keep it in the back of your mind at the moment and see if there are any changes in his dynamic as he gets closer to 3. If he seems really off, they might want to look into an early intervention program, but that usually has to start before age 3, I believe.
(My son had speech delays and he was in an early intervention program for about 6 months, when he was 18 months.)

Please try to be understanding even with limited familiarity....this very much sounds like autism spectrum, NOT parenting results. The things you are talking about are characteristics of kids on the spectrum that a typical child would be self-motivated to explore, NOT related to how one parents. Just be careful how you approach since it sounds like you have never personally known a child with these characteristics so naturally have little understanding of it and I sure know how hard it is to have a child on the spectrum even with mine being high functioning and my having had a lot of previous experience with it in both work and life....along with having typical children older and younger than my one on the spectrum. Yes early intervention is extra helpful, tho its a tough road and your friends need loving support more than concern. Best wishes to all involved <3

Updated

Please try to be understanding even with limited familiarity....this very much sounds like autism spectrum, NOT parenting results. The things you are talking about are characteristics of kids on the spectrum that a typical child would be self-motivated to explore, NOT related to how one parents. Just be careful how you approach since it sounds like you have never personally known a child with these characteristics so naturally have little understanding of it and I sure know how hard it is to have a child on the spectrum even with mine being high functioning and my having had a lot of previous experience with it in both work and life....along with having typical children older and younger than my one on the spectrum. Yes early intervention is extra helpful, tho its a tough road and your friends need loving support more than concern. Best wishes to all involved <3

Ok, if you bring this up due to her visit she is likely to get sensitive. Maybe Jr was under the weather/didnt feel comfortable outside of home etc.
If she has asked you in the past if x behavior was normal I would take that approach. Remember when you asked me about x? Well, now that I had some time with Jr I have noticed he fixates on things. Have you talked to your pediatrician about it?
I have always thought my son was on the spectrum. But the dr always brushed off my concerns. Now he's 9 and it's clear he is unlike his peers. I would have been delighted if one of my friends had been an ally back in his toddler years. I'm still begging and pleading to get him any extra help. And he was socialized just the same as his younger sister, he's just always been a different boy. Not so much that it was concerning-but as he's progressed it's ostracized him.

Something does sound off. I would suggest to her to talk to her doc and go from there.

You say that you know it will hurt her? .. Let her know there is nothing to be hurt about, she did nothing wrong.

Good luck.

Just a thought - is she always right there providing stuff for him w/o his having to use his words? Just sounded like this *might* be part of it based on she is feeding him while also kinda pushing the learning at the same time (holding up the fingers). If he felt more as ease, would he maybe explore on his own?

My friend's son is very shy and he acts like this. He is 5 now and definitely is getting better about things. His dad is quiet and shy and his mom is always hovering. If there are other kids around he sometimes will hide or do his own thing...I can see him not wanting to enter the playroom. He does not want to look people in the eyes because he is shy, but he has gotten better at this. He's an odd little boy, but he takes after his dad. I met his grandparents once (on his dad's side) and they both were very shy, timid people. So, for my friend's son it is just his personality (and partly the way he is treated...he is allowed to act funny about things). When he was 2 I was convinced he was on the autism spectrum, but now I think he just takes after his dad. I would encourage your friend to send him to preschool when he turns 3....forced social interaction before he starts school will be good for him. And his preschool teachers will be on the lookout for things like autism and can recommend he be tested.

Maybe he's like Dad. My BIL is incredibly introverted and to get my nephew to open up, you have to kind of act like a tree and hope he warms up. His sister is very different, and I think she's going to give her introverted parents a run for their money. When nephew was 2, it was quite common for him to do his own thing and barely acknowledge you. Just this weekend, he and his dad escaped the party to hang out at the sand box. For extreme introverts, that may just be who they are.

As far as the stairs, etc. that may be a matter of exposure or babying. Hard to tell. My DD was slow on physical abilities and we blocked the stairs far longer than some other people so she wouldn't take a fall down them. If you think that there is something else wrong, like Autism, you might simply ask Mom how he's doing with x or y or offer to give her son a kid-friendly cup and spoon for meals, etc. IKEA has a great "first set" for little kids, or inexpensive plastic cups/silverware/plates you could gift them to encourage them to get him to eat on his own. You can also encourage her to speak to her pediatrician about where he is with motor skills, etc.