All or Nothing Additude

hmmm, interesting, you made me think.

My answer would be that I can kind of get a sense of the other person's parenting style and it really isn't the hitting that is only problem, it's just the final thing that might make me say i've had enough of all the little things that I have put up with and tried to overcome and use as teaching expereinces.

I think years ago, society had expectations for behavior that was more set. Now a days, every one can do what ever they feel like when ever they feel like it because that is their right. Instead of being a community with like mores, its just a free for all. We are expected to be tolerant of every little thing, and it works both ways, vesavi you have to be tolerant of my need to keep my kids from being hit.

It happened when parents decided that overcoming challenges--whether it's school, sports or friends--was no longer the way to learn confidence and self-esteem.

As a veteran teacher of 19 years, I can emphatically tell you that these children will not have a clue as to how to deal with the "real world," or even junior high and high school! I see it every day in my classroom. Those whose parents have had them tough things out are far more resilient and can adapt to new situations. Those whose parents handled everything for them are the divas who couldn't solve their way out of a paper bag without mom or dad, and their lawyers, calling the principal to complain.

I feel that my job as parent is to equip my children with the tools for success: a love of reading, a love of good health, and the faith that they can solve their own problems successfully. My 13 year old has put this to the test recently as he faced a lot of bullying at school. I offered repeatedly to speak to the school administration on his behalf, but he wanted to handle it for himself. So, I let him, even though it hurt me to listen to his stories from school. He tried walking away, humor, standing up to the bullies, even fighting. After all his experimentation, he learned that, in his case, the best policy was to stand his ground and use humor..."You're following me AGAIN?! Wow! I have my very own personal fan club. Dude, you should be PRESIDENT of my fan club since you spend all your free time following me around. I'll be hanging out in the library, should you want to speak with me further..." And he laughed as he walked away. The look of awe and wonder on my son's face when he told me this story and how the bullies are now treating him respectfully was priceless. He NEVER would've figured that out if I had stormed into the principal's office.

It's certainly not easy to watch your precious child suffer and, obviously, I would've stepped in if he was threatened or faced physical harm. But, the lessons my son has learned from this year's bully incident will serve him a lifetime. He's so much more comfortable in his own skin, proud of the knowledge that HE can solve problems on his own. I, on the other hand, barely survived the suspension for fighting, the drop in grades or the pain of watching him go through this (all in the last four weeks of school). But, by backing off and letting him handle it, he has gained more confidence and self-esteem.

If that makes me a bad parent, well....

Yes, I agree. There are a lot more "helicopter parents" than there used to be. I don't think it's healthy for the kids to have parents hovering 24/7, waiting to jump in and fix everything at the slightest hint that something might go wrong. A lot of these same people don't really discipline their kids, either, because they are afraid to make their little darling sad for even a moment.

It's too bad for the kids, because one day when they go out into the big, wide world, it's going to be a big shock not to have mom and dad there to fix everything for them, and they'll be shocked to learn the whole world doesn't revolve around them.

I think some parents miss the whole point of parenting - to raise children who can stand on their own two feet and become productive members of society. That means being able to resolve conflict, creatively solve problems, and be resourceful. Kids never have a chance to learn these skills if mom and dad always do it for them.

My mom never fought my battles, just always gave me tips and reassurance on how to get through them. I did the same with mine.
It does freak me out too that so many parents arent letting kids figure things out on their own socially. Getting your feelings hurt now and then is part of life. Learning to avoid conflict is a skill that can only be done in the field with practice.

My little guy is a cream puff. Not even a rough tough one. Where do I draw lines at playdates?

Some playdates, the other parent is present and I rely on the parent to actively parent. We stay close enough to hear what's going on, tones of voices, etc. and let the kids try to work things out on their own, but stay available to help and not take sides.

When another child gets rough with my little guy, I do coach my son on asserting himself. Some very sweet children are rough players. At four, he doesn't need me to correct the other child first, *he* needs to speak to that child first. During those playdates when the parent is present, my expectation is that the other parent will give their child guidance as well, not minimize or demean either child's feelings but to offer helpful solutions/redirection or discipline.

When it's my son and his friends, and the parent isn't there, my criteria for a playmate is someone who can follow simple directions and can choose to be safe with their body. If I am having a behavioral issue with another person's child, or if my son is genuinely not having a good time, we might not invite the child back. They are still learning, granted, and there's a difference between a child who needs a bit of gentle help to be moved from playing to the toilet or snack, and the kid who is going to dig their heels in and get defiant with me. When a child does this, my concern is for everyone's safety, including their own. I don't want to be sued or have a parent upset because Danger Child wants to jump off my couch. At four and five, children are capable of following those sorts of directions.

My worst problem (and fortunately, it's very rare) at playdates is often the parents. I don't really want to sit near your kid and hear about your parenting challenges. This makes me really uncomfortable because it's incredibly disrespectful to the child. I've had a couple playdates where the parent and I just didn't click-- nothing personal-- and one with a woman who just wouldn't shut up. It wasn't a conversation, it was a monologue. In a group setting, I've been challenged by parents who downplay their child's dangerous/bullying behavior, and I just choose to move away from where that child is playing. I have zero tolerance for bullies; it's my opinion that it's good for my son to play with kids who have a wide variety of personalities and play styles, and that it's also my job to make sure I don't put him in harms way for the sake of appearing to be 'openminded'.

Welcome to the age of the helicopter parent where far too many are waaaaayyyy too involved in every teeny aspect of their child's life!

Well, I DON'T think this is an easy question to answer.

I absolutely believe it's best for kids to choose their own friends and work things out between themselves.

When another child is an issue and the kids just don't "mesh" -- what's the pint of continuing to pursue the friendship? Sometimes O. kid wants it more than the other kid(s).

My son is the kind of kid who feels he really should "be friendly" with everyone. But he IS starting to see that not all kids are going to be his "friends" and he's also getting it that it's OK.

But I do see a fair amount of labeling by parents (the "A Crowd" if you will) that kind of just cuts a poor kid down at the knees. Truth be told, sometimes it's THEIR kid with the real issue.

Sooooo....I feel it's more of my job to observe the friendships my son has, check in with him as to whether he feels they are "positive", and go from there...

I also think that the parental "tolerance" is directly proportional to the parents feelings about the other parents! Sad, but seems true.

Hard to say. There are lots of parents out there who say it's normal for their kids to act out, and they don't discipline it, they just expect everyone else to have tolerance. Meanwhile other kids aren't allowed to act that way, and end up getting hit. The parents who don't like it and dont' let their kids act that way have the right to walk away.

Everyone is entitled to a mistake here and there, but it's pretty easy to see which kids have no expectations at home to be nice. The older my kids get, the more they move away from bratty kids on their own without being told. They just don't like the behavior. That makes me glad, because I don't want them liking the mean kids when they get older, so it's good practice. If a child hit my daughter, I might not jump in and do anything the first time (but I would tell her to tell the kid to knock it off), but I would never MAKE her keep playing either. I've also taught my kids to fight back. Which they dont' like to do, so they usually walk away. If the brattier child's parent won't teach them that kids don't like mean behavior, then they'll learn it from other kids.

I wouldn't control my child's friendships unless the other child is being a straight up bully or sexual to my child.... same goes if the parent acts that way to my child. (some of my comment would warrant a cps call lol) Or if the child was constantly disrespectful I would discourage my daughter from being around him/her.

My parents controlled my friends a little, but it was always looking out for me. Like my best friend at 7 years old... her mom would leave us home alone overnight. My dad found out and wouldn't let me stay over there anymore. Then the girl was totally disrespectful to my parents and would pick at my older brother constantly so she was no longer allowed at the house. Any other time they would talk to me about my friends and make sure I wasn't going to just give into "peer pressure" and stuff.

I think the assumption that moms "nowadays" are like that is false. I saw many of the moms you refer to when I was growing up. I doubt they're anything new, but I guess it's the same thinking as when I was young these whipper snappers were not as disrespectful lmao. My dad tells me stories of his childhood and yea they were disrespectful.

I came from a large family who all lived in the same town. So all my friends were my relatives (cousins). We had to get along because they were family. BUT, my mom/aunts rule was "unless there is blood, I don't want to hear about it." We had to learn to work out our disagreements and conflict ourselves growing up.

I wonder if the reason parents do that with their kids friends is because that is how we conduct ourselves with our own adult friends? Because after thinking about your post, I do that with people myself. Guess I am going to have to learn to be more forgiving, as I was as a kid, in order to set a more tolerant example for my own daughter.

Because so many parents think they know everything nowdays and all of these zero tolerance policies aren't helping either. My parents never stepped in and always told us to work things out.

HMMMM, great question...

I think there needs to be a balance.

When I was growing up, in a middle-class, dead end street in SoCA, if there was a disagreement between kids, it could easily escalate into an actual fist fight. There would be periods of getting along, with the occasional 'now were enemies' for awhile. And our parents were not involved with these changes.

I don't think a complete hands off approach to letting kids sort out their differences is going to teach kids how to resolve conflict when the inevitable conflict arises. We were certainly not taught any of these life skills, in my generation, by parents, how to respect each others differences and decisions.

I have invested a lot of time with my own children...teaching them how to compromise, how to negotiate with one another, how to politely and respectfully play together and with others...basically they are well-mannered kids.

I personally don't tolerate spoiled, whiny, selfish, cry baby kids very well, even as an adult.

There is a difference between having a bad day and a friend takes his frustration out on a friend versus the same kid having a continual behavior problem that negatively effects the friendship.

In the final analysis kids will learn more bad from a bad kid than they will good from a good friend.

I am truly not a helicopter mom....ask any mom who knows me...I'm probably a little too cavalier about my kids independence....but when I see behavior problems emerging, like lying, cheating, stealing, hitting, uncontrolled anger, I most certainly will talk to my own kids about the long term viability of that friendship. Meaning it's time to search elsewhere.

Forgiveness has always been tough. But we do need to teach our children to forgive.