Advice on Custody Problems

The visitation rights were to the FATHER not the grandmother. That is child abandonment. She can call the police and say that her husband has left their child with someone else for X number of days and she was called to get the child and he threatened to call the police on her if she gets her. She is just letting them know ahead of time that she is getting her child from the sitter, as she was abandoned.

My 2 cents.
S.

It is not child abandoment if the father has the right to designate who can spend his time with the child.

I would read the CO carefully and see what options it gives. If Grandma asks Mom to get the child, then I would go and get her knowing that Dad can call the police. If it gets to court, the Judge will decide.

Also, who has first right of refusal?

Edited: First right of refusal is not a guaranteed right! If it is not spelled out in the court order, the court will look at it that it is his time and he can designate who he wants to have his child spend it with.

Consulting an attorney will be your best bet.

Of course, I second the notion that EVERYTHING should be documented, even from the grandmother's perspective.

It's a shame, but it might be necessary for her to let him do what he's gonna do. If he calls the cops as a result, so be it. Her records will show that his mother called her, and they determined that the best interest of the child was to get her to her mother. (Maybe she can even record the conversations that she has with the grandmother when she calls her.)

Having not read the other posts, it is the law in the State of Texas that during that month, your niece is entitled to one weekend visit. Have her double check her custody arrangement papers. That is the state's default custody arrangements. Also, have the GRANDMA bring the child to mom.....this way, he can't do anything. Other than that, I would say that she needs to go back to court. Have it rewritten that he can only have the child for four one-week intervals instead of a full month at a time. Explain to the courts that it is stressful and upsetting to the child. Enlist a child psychologist for assistance. And, VERY IMPORTANT - keep a diary - write down the details of every conversation (whether it is good or bad) that is had with the dad, the grandma, and the child. Be sure to document DATE and TIME (very important as it gives a more believable testimony).

I wish her well

Hi E.,

I am sorry you guys are going through this, it is so frustrating and stressful for everyone. I would read your legal documents carefully if you don't understand what it is saying I would go to the lawyer if you had one that reprensented her if not call around and see if you cant get free consultation with one to help you. If the grandmother is watching the child and is asking for the mother to come get the child and the father is no where to be seen then she has the right to get the child, esp. if the grandmother is not stated in the legal documents as a guardian. Read your legal documents. From what I hear you have a case.

I've been on both sides of this fence with my grandchildren whom I take care of a lot because their parents work. It is true that each parent has the right to designate someone to "take their place" during their visitation. For instance, if my son was out of town and asked me to take his weekend visitation, that is perfectly legal - and vice versa. This really helps out if you can't be the one to pick them up at exactly 6 p.m., etc. And I don't know about your situation, but in our family - the grandparents want to see the children just as much as the parents do. However, I was wondering if you feel uncomfortable with your ex's parents keeping her. Do you think she is safe? What kind of relationship do you have with them? These situations are very hard. The best thing that you can do even though it is hard, is to try and maintain the lines of communication with your ex (don't stoop to his level) and his parents. Maybe his parents will allow you to talk to her or see her while they have her without telling him if they need to if you have a good relationship. And if they bring her to you, I'm not sure what the police would do. I mean, he appointed them as his "stand in" and they felt that she needed you, so you haven't done anything wrong. However, he may be able to pick her back up, I'm not sure. You should probably read your papers very carefully and also talk to an expert (social services, child advocate, etc.). If you feel that your child is really in any danger from these people, there may be a way that you can ask for a home study (these are usually done in child custody cases). Definitely document EVERYTHING. Times, day, all details and people that can verify if you need them. Keep a journal, any e-mails and correspondence, etc. just in case. But for your daughter, remember Prov. 25:21-22 "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,and the LORD will reward you." You may find that after thing settle down a bit, they will follow your lead. He is pouting right now because you took his control away and he's trying to take it back from you. Good luck and God bless.

If the mother is calling her to pick him up then she can go pick him up. She may want to have an officer accompany her so that there is a witness that the mother has asked her to pick him up. That was a lot for the child to take on and sometimes I think courts don't think things through before they give a ruling. He's lucky that she didn't go back and try to collect the back child support because she could actually fight for that which goes all the way back to when she was pregnant and he would be liable for any doctor bills acquired during her pregnancy. The next time grandma calls and asks her to pick up her child she should ask her if an officer can accompany her in case the father tries to acuse her of kidnapping. Either way an officer will not arrest her for the grandmother asking her to pick up the child. I have been through it all so I speak from experience. It's obvious that this is not the best for the child and she needs to also document everything from the grandmother calling you to the child going to grandma instead of spending time with dad. Then take it back before a judge so they can see the stress it's causing the child. I wouldn't discuss other visitation unless he brings it up because sometimes child support isn't done seperately from visitation and if you can show that the father is not all that interested then the courts may grant you a much better set up. Either way he CAN NOT have her arrested for picking up her son especially if the grandmother is asking her to. My ex tried to use our son against me many times. She needs to stand her ground and let him know that if he wants to fight her then he needs to use a different tactic and that she will put the needs of her son ahead of anything that the father wants or thinks he can threaten. If he doesn't have any concern for protecting your child then he's more than welcome to sign over his rights. I always say this bc it comes out to be true that this is not the time to be nice or try to keep the peace. This is your child and he's hurting and if the father doesn't care about that then he's not a good father. The grandmother is obviously trying to do what's best for the child so it's best to keep the conversation between the 2 of you. GOOD LUCK

The only thing your niece can do at this stage is to document all of this and encourage the Grandmother to also document all of this. How much time the father has spent with the child, who all watches the child and the hours they have spent watching this child.. Then they should try to go to mediation and work out a better visiting agreement. One month is really a long time for this child who does not really know these relatives. I would think every other weekend with the understanding that the dad will be the one with the child at least 75% of the time.. If he will not do mediation, she should speak with her attorney and take him back to court... The best interest of the child is what is most important.

He sounds very immature. This is his child and he should feel good and proud to pay support for his child.. It is too late now, but no matter the age, child support should always begin at the beginning of the birth.. The courts are willing to even take 10. per week, to get it started.

What would he do if the grandmother took her to your niece? Then the grandmother can say she gave her to the mother if he does call the police. It won't be her going to get her.

If she took him to court, she needs to read the custody/child support papers she signed afterwards and that were recorded in the County Clerk's office. It will probably show that the father gets 1 month of summer visitation dates/etc and how much he has to pay each payday and who pays what on medical bills etc. It will stipulate holidays and who gets the child on even or odd years. One month of summer visitation means they live less than 100 miles apart.

Does it show that she can submit in writing to him a weekend out of that month for her visitation? My son has his kids for 6 weeks in the summer because they live more than 100 miles away, but his ex specifies in writing which 2 weekends she wants during that time. He has to pay child support to her WHILE he has them for the summer vacation anyway. Again, have her READ her copy of the custody papers because that is what they BOTH must abide by.

Go get her...My ex did the same thing. Threatened to call the cops - but would dump the girls on other family members. So, I just kept them away (not that he came looking for them) and here we are, 5 years later...and he couldn't care less (neither do they).
I always told him to call the cops. The trauma to the girls would be HIS fault. He never called.
Do not offer to give the money back!!! He is responsible for that baby, whether he admits it or not.
The other thing (this is kinda bad): I would stay gone on the weeks/weekends he was supposed to get them. I did that for about 2 months and come to find out - he was never looking for them in the first place.
Also, attorneys cost a lot - I know. But see if they can modify the visits to supervised (we're going back to modify so he gets them LESS time). Explain it's traumatic for her and she has anxiety over the separation from her mom.
Good luck...and let your niece know - she and her daughter will be better people when they get to the other side of this.

First and foremost, child support is not tied to visitation. It HAS to be paid no matter what. Just as visitation has to be enforced no matter what. BUT...he COULD sign over his parental rights to the child and therefore no longer be obligated to pay child support, and wouldn't have visitation either. Doesn't sound to me like he loves the child at all, is just using her. The papers probably also don't state WHO the child stays with during July. He can always say his Mom babysits her while he's at work. The ONLY way any of that will get changed is if HIS Mom goes to court as a witness for your niece. Still don't know how much good that would do. But it's worth a shot.

E.,

Please tell your niece to go get her daughter the next time grandparents call & ask her to do so. Father is NOT being responsible; otherwise, grandparents wouldn't be calling your niece.

I recently experienced something similar & law enforcement will not arrest her for picking up the child as requested. If father throws a fit, law enforcement will explain it is a civil matter for him to take up in court with his attorney. She is not going to his residence in an attempt to forcibly remove her daughter from him and interfere with the visitation schedule, so she is not violating the visitation schedule. Please tell her NOT to tell him she is going to get her daughter from the grandparents. This will avoid an unnecessary heated battle in front of her daughter.

Further, I would recommend SHE have law enforcement come to the home, after she arrives to pick up the child, & have them file a report documenting the situation. It isn't a snatch & grab on her behalf. She is fulfilling the direct request from the grandparents & the report will be very useful in a court of law. If she is not comfortable having officers present, take a witness & have them document the events & conversation and/or video camera/tape recorder and record the conversation with the grandparents. They will have to be made aware of the recording.

Once she has her daughter, even if he calls the cops and brings them to her residence to get the child, if she documents the events, especially with law enforcement, 3rd party, or video the officers will advise him of his civil rights to return to family court and address the issue before the judge. It doesn't sound like he has the means necessary or the true desire to do so. He sounds like he is being vindictive vs. parenting and is relying on scare tactics. A suggestion ~ If he calls and leaves threats or comments like "no, this is what YOU wanted.." on voicemail save these recordings. They can be used in court.

I do have a few questions:
(1) Do the grandparents tell him they have called her to pick up her daughter?

(2) If she agreed to come get her, would the grandparents call him & advise him she was coming?

I have much to say on this matter and could go on and on. Due to my personal situation, I was driven to pursue my paralegal degree and specialized in family law. While I am not a lawyer, I would be happy to chat with you more in depth regarding the issue. If I can be of assistance in any way please don't hesitate to contact me via email or directly at ###-###-####.

I wish you, your niece, and her precious daughter all the best.

J. F.
Helping Moms Work From Home!
http://www.4MeAndMom.com

She needs a family law attorney who can help her make the best decisions for their child.

She should be paid child support, but I think FORCING a yound child to spend 30 days away from the only people he has ever really known is assine (of course that's our court system for you).

Is the "father" (and that term is used loosely) willing to give up parental rights? That might also be a option for her to explore.

Take him to court to admen the ruling of the July stay, so that the baby has to stay with him not another person and let the judge know what is happening, maybe he will lose those rights and keep paying the $200.

You've received a lot of great advice I just want to add my 2 cents.

If you niece has an attorney already I would suggest she speak to her attorney. She definitely needs to document every phone call from the fathers mother, and every other incident date and time. She should have a note book that she can jot all the stuff down in.

I would also suggest she read the custody/visitation court order, because I highly doubt it states that she can not see the baby until 08/02. She should be abel to go and visit any time, however I would not recommend that she pick the baby up as the mother is requesting. Instead she should advise the mother to talk to her son since he is the father and is also responsible for the baby. Maybe it will become an inconvenience for him and he will decide not too keep the baby for that long again.

I would definitely recommend the visitation to be modified. A month for a developing baby without his mom is too long and could result in issues like separation anxiety etc. Instead maybe they can work out a few weekends a month. If they live close to each other there should be no reason they can't work out an agreement that will be more easy on everyone.

Unfortunately since she already went to court it's too late for her to give back the money and forget the agreement. And contrary to popular belief the cops and CPS can enforce a custody agreement, especially if the court order is on hand.

With custody issues a lot of times the court will appoint an amnicus attorney, which is an attorney for the child to make sure the best interest of the child is a priority. BUT the parents have to pay out of their own pocket for this attorney. If you niece and her ex can work things out outside of the court before the amnicus and mediation get involved it will save them a lot of money and aggravation.

Good luck I hope it works out!

You have some great advice for your niece especially what is in the decree. That is what the court will follow.
What I don't understand is why his mother is calling your niece and not him? If this is his visitation time, then she needs to contact him if there is a problem. Then he would contact your niece if if the child is to return to her.
Is the child frighten of the Grandparent? Or do they, the Grandparents, feel dumped on?
Doesn't she have visitation rights during the Summer?
She may want to keep the $200 and apply it to adjusting the summer visitation schedule to include a couple weekends with Mom.

I was also a teenage mother, and I know how difficult things can be sometimes. It sounds to me like your niece really has her head on her shoulders, so let me start off by giving her a big pat on the back. I have been there. I also would like to say that my advice to her would be to call a lawyer and see what her options are. I know that's kind of vague, but now that there is a custody order of sorts in place, this is what she will have to do. She can not just give back the money and take the child. One does not excuse the other. Unfortunately he could stop paying childsupport altogether, and she would still be required to give him his custody times. The only thing that I could see that is in her favor is that the child seems to be completely distraught over the situation, and the courts should take that into concideration. Besides the fact that the father's mother is the one taking care of the child instead of himself, so if she talks to a lawyer and logs everything down from this point on she may have a case to bring up. In some cases I would say that this is very similar to neglect on his part because he is not taking care of the child himself and has thrust this on the mother who apparently doesn't know how or want the responsiblity. As far as him calling the cops there isn't much he can really do because she is the biological mother. I would check with a lawyer on that as well though. Just tell her to hang in there. Log everytime his mother calls for her to come get the child, and everytime he speaks with her and what he has to say. Keep a little diary of sorts. Also let her know she is not the only one, and others have been there and she is not alone. I have three children now and I am 28 years old. Things will get better. This too shall pass. I will be praying for her and her daughter that there is help out there. There is a group of lawyers that are free or low pricing. They are newer lawyers that need experience, but should be noligible on the law that may be able to help her. There is one in Houston called the Houston Volenteer Lawyers Program, and they will help in family law. Here is their website http://www.hvlp.org/home/default.aspx . I didn't check to see where you live, but if you don't live near Houston, there may be someone in your area as well that can help, or their is always legal aide. Tell her to feel free to email any time if she needs someone that understands. I have been there plenty. You can send me a private message and I will send you my personal email address.

Sincerely,
D.
Katy, TX

She needs to make sure he is really complying with the custody order. I do not know if grandparents count. She really need to consult a lawyer. He can threaten whatever he wants, but the law may be on your side on this one.

E.,
Yes, your niece has a problem, but she had the same problem 5 yrs ago when she chose to get pregnant and most likely the baby's father also...They appear to be very immature and childish, have no ability to communicate or compromise and unable to resolve problems in a civil manner - worse yet now there is another life involved, an innocent child.

But the surprising part to me is why you would think that all of sudden because they are 5 yrs older they (who got pregnant in the first place as teenagers) would be experts at the above? Worse yet, you all want the government to solve the problem (not the parents, not the family, not the people who created the issue in the first place) to solve it and then are upset with the terms and conditions that are given.

You all don't need cops, you need counseling. Please sign them up for some type of counseling. I would suggest that you all could just sit down like responsible adults and work this thru, but clearly you are 5 yrs into it and some basic things haven't been resolved. I honestly think you need a professional counselor(not the government) to help you/her (and the baby's father) think through ramifications of her actions before she takes them (don't you see a trend, have sex, didn't plan on having a child. take a father to court to get money, and didn't like the rules). They behaviors on both parts - are very childish.

Focus on the child - not your niece the 5 yr old! and not the money (and don't blame him, my gosh, your niece took him to court)...and seek ways to grow and manifest something more positive in this child's life.

Stop the cycle of blame and entitlement. You are burdening our judicial system with problems they shouldn't have to solve. They weren't designed to teach children how to be responsible adults, that is the PARENT'S job, your job, your sister's job, your family's job. You, as a teacher, should fully understand that. People make poor choices and then burden our government's budget to make their problems go away.

The purpose of the summer month is for the child to spent time with the non-custodial parent not his mother. It is my understanding, and I could be wrong, but I thought all parents have the “right of first refusal” for their children. Which means that the other parent must have the first right to care for said child before any other type babysitting service or other relative has the opportunity. Please check with an attorney on this issue because I am unsure.

I would let the cops get involved. Make sure the fact that the mom is asking her to come pick him up is recorded in some way, especially by the cops. Then, if it ever goes back to court, your niece will have documentation of what is happening. Let it happen over and over again. Repeated cop reports won't lie and the law should be on her side. Plus, the child will know that when she calls for help, mom will at least try to come and get her. If the caregiver called me to get my child, I wouldn't care what the father said or the court order; I would go and get my child. Let him call the police. Just have proof for the police that the mother called her and not the other way around.

she needs to document, document, document! If his mother has the child at night and he does not have her--and his mother is calling to come pick up the child--the biological mother has every right to pick up her kid any time she wants. the cops can't do anything about it. they will just say take it to court. my friend just went to court about child custody issues and unfortunatly has had the cops called out a few times. he is being immature, and the child is not his mothers responsibility.

i was in this same situation unfortunatly. If your niece refuses to let him see the baby she is can be held in contempt of court. I am assuming there is a court order for visitation. Also, regardless if he pays or not she has to follow the court order. I had to hire an attorney and fight in my case. Same situation, child left at grandma's etc....In my case I was able to get the summer visitation revised to the standard 1st 3rd 5th weekend. Your niece is stil due child support regardlesss if the dad picks up the child or not. If she can't afford legal help, there is a legal aid office in Austin, I would suggest calling there. She can also request a court date for a modification of the court order.

It's really just a threat.. becuase the police wont do anything. i have my kids dad on child support.. and really all they tell you is that they can set up the visitation but they cant enforce it. She can report him to cps for child neglect. and i know its hard to do without the extra $$ but sometimes you have to weigh your options. she just needs to record or keep track of all the calls she gets from the grandma and report all of it. so she can get her baby back before she feels like her mom doesnt want to take her. and it will make the baby feel upset for a whole other reason.

Hello, I do not know a lot about legal situations, but does the court order say that your niece is not allowed to visit while the father has custody? She should petition the court to ask clarify the terms of the visitation. If the "grandmother" is asking for help, she should tell the grandmother to talk to her son about becoming a better father. Good luck with a difficult situation.

Contact a case manger for child welfare and let them know what is going on. Tell them what he is doing and who has the care and visitation with and what your child is going through. There is always some hope.

E.,
I am a child of divorce, and I can tell you the court order for visitation needs to be modified. My parents struck various custody and visitation agreements during my childhood, only to recant them later. Good luck!

Hi E.,
I am not an attorney and I would not want to get caught practicing law- but here is what I would do. Unless she needs the $200 a month I would get back with the attorney who went to court with her for this and have his parental rights revoked if possible. Document each time his moms calls and wants her to pick up the child- document he not spending time with the child as ordered. The courts will most likely say while she is in his custody he can leave her where ever he wants- but if it is doing emotional harm to the child I would try and have this revoked. The key is to document everything possible so she will have all the amonution she needs when she goes back into court.
it is obvious this child is not ready for overnite stays with her "father" and I would not put her thru this trauma. It may be too late for this year- she may have to leave her there until August 2, but I would not allow her to go again- and if he insist- tell him to take her back to court and let the judge know how emotionally upset it makes her. when the Mom calls again, just tell her to call her son as it is his responsibility while he has her.
If it were my child, I would move heaven and earth not to send her back again.
There could possibly be attorneys in family practice that could advise her without charge. I would consider using Legal Aid.
good luck and blessings

What a mess and I am sorry you are going through this. By all means the niece pick up your daughter and take her back to you. You have gotten good advise below but I would also call your attorney for advise. If you give back his money then that will not change his right to visitation so I would not return the money. Your attorney can take him back to court and show the court that he doesn't keep the child and leaves the child with his mother. They can have the mother and niece testify about this as well and the judge can remove the visitation, set the rules for visitation or demand supervised visitation. I bet after that he won't bother you anymore as it seems he is just doing this to get at you. Once you show him you will not play his games he will stop, plus it cost him to get an attorney as well. I know it will cost you also but it is truly worth it to go through the courts and make it all legal. My daughter's ex takes the kids to his parents as well but that is only because he is at work but he is with them all other times so that is OK per the court. I don't know why the judges agree to send children away from their main home to stay with a parent for a month. It is so traumatic for them at this age. I realize father's need visitation as well, but you and the baby's father need to communicate and get along for the sake of your daughter or this will go on forever.
Good Luck to you

Well if she won't tell you I will, Teresa you are a very RUDE, she came on here for some advice about something that means a lot to her and that's the only thing you could come up with? I know you have heard the saying IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. Now to you E., You need to tell you niece to call the cops herself and go and get her child there is no way I would let my child stay over there and HIS mother is telling you to come and get her. Let his mom leave messages on her phone saying to come and get her and let the cops hear it. That is his child he needs to man up and take care of her. What does $200.00 do, that doesn't even pay for half of daycare. He should be happy. It sounds to me that he is the one that needs to grow up. I hope you figure something out.

I don't know where to start...I almost want you to call me!! I had my first child when I was 17 years old. I am now 30 and he is 12. His father has made my life HELL for the last 12 years! He has caused problems within my marriage and really has robbed and messed up my 12 yr olds life. I too went after nothing as far as money b/c we were young and decided to be friends. I had our son the majority of the time with him visiting whenever. I paid for everything,with a LOT of help from my parents. When my son turned 7 or 8 his Dad decided he wanted more shared custody, and to be involved more. The schedule was changed and so was my life. He has still never paid for anything, but plays that game "no you can't have him for vacation, it's on one of my days"! He has NEVER cared about his son, it has always been about messing with me. I was a very passive person and always let him walk on me. It has not been til the last year or so when I started learning the facts. First of all you do not need an attorney to represent you. Simply pay the 35.00 or whatever court fee and file for a motion to modify. She can also claim that her daughter hasn't had consistent visitation with her father and doesn't know him that well. I've been dealing with the system for as long as I can remeber and I've never heard of a judge doing this...especially not over 200.00 dollars. With his history she should be able to collect the money and still have primary custody. If she can...get rid of him all together! I know that sounds bad, and I believe that children should have two active parents. But when one of them is only doing more harm than good, I have learned the hard way and am now stuck. Oh, she can also go to court and make the Dad have to have her and complain about her being left with G'ma everyday. Who knows maybe this will make him run! Legally, I know something can be done. My mission in life has now become helping teenage girls (or young mothers) understand the system and not get walked on. She has to do something now and don't back down. Like I said, she doesn't need an attorney. She can start taking action now. Look on line for all the motions that you can file yourself. I hope this helps, I'm going to email you privately and give you my number. If you or your neice would like to talk call me. I have 12 almost 13 years of examples! God Bless.

Sounds like when he wasn't "obligated" to pay support then he was fine with things but now that he's obligated, things have changed. What I'd suggest is cut her losses w/him & try & change the agreement order to just have his parental rights revoked. If he objects, just bring up the fact that he doesn't spend anytime w/his child that he just drops her off at g-mas & does other things. The court order is for visitation w/him, not the g-ma. I'd seriously consider talking to a qualified atty (someone w/child support or custody experience) & see what can be done. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses & move on w/your life even if it means severing the relationship w/the child's father. Obviously he doesn't seem to really want this type of opportunity he views as an obligation only. Good luck!!