I have a 4 year old daughter who i believe probably has ADHD. I would like to get her tested but I am having trouble talking to my husband about it. He just wants to think that everything is fine and ignore what is going on. I am with her and our 1 year old 24/7 so I think I have pretty good insight on her. Can anyone give me some advice on how to approach the subject of getting her tested without him just blowing me off?
Thanks to everyone for the advice so far. No, she is not in preschool. We are having a hard time financially at the moment but don't qualify for free preschool. Someone suggested getting her screened by the local preschool and if they decide she is at risk for it she would probably qualify then but my husband doesn't want to hear it. I think part of the problem is that he has an older daughter from a previous marriage with serious mental and physical handicaps. I think that because of her, he is affraid to even think about anything being wrong with his other kids.
As for her symptoms, she is ALWAYS moving. by the time i get her to sit still for 4 minutes (time out) it has usually been an hour or more of fighting. She has a friend a year younger who seems to have a much longer attention span and can sit still for longer periods of time. Usually it takes her an hour to eat dinner and I have to put her back in her seat several times and constantly ask her to sit still and not tip the chair. She is very defiant and gets violent with me especially several times a day. She loves to color but can't even sit still for that more than a couple minutes. She won't/ can't look at me when i talk to her and when i am done, she has no idea what i just said.
I realize that most of this is normal for a 4 year old but it never ends. From the minute she wakes up till the time i get her to go to bed, she is go, go, go and constantly moving and talking and spacing out. What makes it harder for me is seeing her friend who is a year younger and has a much longer attention span and can sit still and she just can't do it
Thank you Riley! Right now my godsend is nickelodeon. In the afternoon when iCarly, Victorious, and Big Time Rush are on, i get time to do laundry and dishes. the rest of the day is interesting. Even if she will leave me alone long enough to do something, I can't leave her alone because she gets into everything. We had to start putting up a baby gate to confine her to the bedrooms and bathroom if she gets up before us in the morning or she destroys things then hides them. Her toddler bed gets partially taken aprat daily and the pegs that hold the shelves on her bookshelf have mysteriously dissapeared (they are metal so hopefully she didn't feed them to her little brother)
Getting her screened shouldn't be a problem (Head Start will do it i think) I just want to try to get DH on board first if i can. And i will definitely be using your tips. Even if she turns out to not be ADHD, it can't hurt to try. lol. Thank you again
Kathy. She is outside all the time running around. As for family history, the only one I know of is my husband's nephew has a son with ADHD. Then again, In my frantic internet searching, i came across several sites with info about adult ADHD and am begining to wonder if the family history might be me and just never diagnosed. I am constantly fidgeting and chewing nails and bouncing my leg and i have always had a hard time focusing and it's like i always have 50 different thoughts in my head at the same time. Gets real interesting when I have 10 of my favorite songs playing in my head at the same time along with about 10 cartoon theme songs. lol. just another thing to look in to and frantically research i guess.
OK, we had her evaluated by the preschool, and they think she is fine. I think part of that might be because it was a new environment with new people so it held her attention a little longer than normal.
Anyway, she starts kindergarten this fall so we will see what happens once she gets used to it. Thank you to everyone for all the advice and support,
She's only 4. Is she exhibiting normal 4 year old silly, crazy, bouncing off the walls from time to time behavior?
At this age, they don't always listen, they don't always focus, they often act out fantastical behaviors.
She may have ADHD, but maybe she doesn't. Maybe she needs an adjustment in her schedule. What does the pediatrician say?
I had strong suspicions by son was adhd by the time he was 3 (ungodly attention span is the real tip off point that young... like HOURS).
Hyperfocus (that ungodly attention span) is EASY to spot in toddlers that are ADHD-i or ADHD-c, but it's much harder in ADHD-h kids. In "inattentive" (hyperactive mental) and "combined" (both hyperactive mental and hyperactive physical) there's always the mental component - so they will get INTENSELY focused on something and be almost perfectly still during it (and trying to transition is a nightmare). In hyperactive (physical) kids though... it's harder to really... express verbally.
Reason being, of course, is that MOST kids are active. (Some are sunny little lumps, but most are active). What parents don't GET though is what we parents of adhd-h and adhd-c parents are TALKING about when WE say active.
Some examples:
- My 3yo would run 3-6 miles every day... and it took us 2 hours. He never ONCE would stop. There's a lake nearby with a 3 mile track around it. I would walk it... he would run it. He'd race ahead to keep up with joggers until I whistled for him (whistling for adhd kids is a HUGE trick, btw... you make it a game where they have to run back and touch your legs whenever you whistle). He'd race ahead, turn around race back, race behind me, turn around race up to me, race ahead of me. FOR TWO HOURS STRAIGHT.
- Then we'd get into the car to come home and after that 10 minute break (unless I got him focused on something that's mentally stimulating) be doing the "obstacle course" for another 2-3 hours. ((1. The couch was okay to climb up, jump off of, roll off of, jump on. 2. The stairs had similar rules. 3 we had tubes to climb through, 4. ropes to climb up, 5. corners to "stovepipe", 6. a balance beam 7. gymnastics rings I suspended from the beam in the ceiling - he could do an "iron cross" by age 4-, 8. a floor for sommersaults, handstands, 9. 10. 11. 12., ad naseam.))
Okay... that's only 5 hours of a 12 hour day. Guess what? Those other 7 (unless I twigged him into something mentally stimulating) were EQUALLY full of activity. The SINGLE reason we got our labrador puppy was to have "someone" who could keep up with him.
Other parents talk about their toddlers getting to tired to walk a whole block... adhd parents have pristine strollers that have never been used. Other parents talk about their kids not "sitting still" at the dinner table... adhd parents long ago gave up on the dinner table until maturity sets in and their kids eat one bite and go breakdance for 5 minutes, eat another bite and "crab walk" as fast as they can in circles around the house, eat another bite and climb a door frame. Are forced to eat two bites and a glug of milk, and then go slide on their socks on the wood. Because THAT is how we get them to eat. OTHER parents have kids that get nauseous if they run around after eating. ADHD parents have kids who feeding them is like jolting them with electricity. OTHER parents have active kids that can break off whatever their activity is when called, adhd parents have to teach them that they can go right back to that activity or we have to physically lift them away from that activity as our kids bawl like we've just murdered their best friend and are fighting for their lives. Other parents have kids that go wild after birthday cake and icecream. Take that 30 minutes of crazy and translate that to a 12 hour day and you've got the life of an adhd-h parent.
When an adhd parent say "active", we have an entirely different set of criteria. ((And we SHAMELESSLY get them hooked on videogames at an early age to get an HOUR of peace every day. An hour where we aren't desperately trying to keep them alive but KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that they are SAFE with their bum glued to the chair. Unfortunately, I picked an educational game, and that got my son reading fluently by age 3, but that's a whole other issue.))
ADHD kids tend to be gifted. Adhd-i and Adhd-c usually academically (although c's can go for either academics or sports or BOTH), Adhd-h kids tend to be physically gifted. (As in a lot of professional and olympic athletes and soldiers are adhd). Sports can be a big problem when they're young (the whole learning of the rules bit), but they (adhd-c & adhd-h) are natural athletes. Although they tend to be fairly clumsy in everyday life (crashing into things, tripping over dust motes)... because they are *trying* to focus on something other than their bodies. ADHD is something of an "extreme" disorder. When we (the athletes) are paying attention to our bodies, we can do feats that look inhuman... but when we're trying to remember to take our shoes off and wash our hands like our mum told us to... we knock over a lamp, catch it, stub our toe foot on the stairs and fall UP the stairs, and then bang our sister in the nose with our elbow. Trying to get from the back door to the bathroom sink with the house (and any people in our way) in it's original order is almost impossible. ((Trick: Have a child whom you've just given directions to "walk like crab" "slither like a snake" "sneak like a spy" from point a to point b. That gives them something to do with their bodies and cuts out 90% of the clumsy)).
ADHD-i & ADHD-c parents luck the cluck out. Because our kids tend to do "well" in interactive / child directed preschool programs (like montessori, waldorf, sports preschools, etc.). Because our kids can hyperfocus on something mental. ADHD-h parents are *stuck* with that hyperfocus being physical. I have yet to know an adhd-h child who can avoid meds while in elementary UNLESS they're in a special school (like sports schools). ((Granted, in order to avoid meds adhd-i & adhd-c parents usually need to either get their kids into gifted schools. montessori schools, or homeschool them if they want them to not get bored and start hating school & or act out)). Because they can hyperfocus on mental schtuff, judicious use of caffiene (soda, coffee, what have you) can make meds unnecessary. ADHD-h kids... really need that extra help that meds give them 99/100.
((WARNING: Caffeine, like all stimulants "calm up down while perking us up". In fact, a bare bones adhd "test" is to give a child or adult a stimulant. If they calm down or get sleepy it *pings* them as having the atypical stimulant reaction that is hallmark of the way our brains work. The PROBLEM is this: with adhd kids, 'overtired' happens before they fall asleep on stimulants. With my son... it's like jolting him with electricity. SuperHappyWiredBoy. With other kids 'overtired' = Cranky McCrankerston. It can be difficult to do the Coke-Test on toddlers, because the dose is too high and it trips them into 'overtired'. Ditto Rx stimulants. It's the *major* reason why ADHD isn't usually diagnosed until age 5 or 6. People often think it's because the disorder is 'age appropriate' earlier... but it's not. There's plenty of non-age-appropriate stuff to look for which are equal tells, but it's the opposite-stimulant-reaction that nails the disorder. The youngest *most* kids will not trip into overtired just happens to be 5 or 6. But (as there are adhd parents on this board who can attest), some are thankfully able to find the right dose as early as age 3. A lot depends on individual size and brain/body chemistry. So DO feel free to give your daughter a sip of coke -not making it a big deal- or mix a bit of coffee in her milk to see if it calms her down/mellows her out a bit. But be warned... too much and it will be like 3 hours past bedtime.))
The "spacing out" makes me think that if your daughter is adhd that she may be adhd-c (the spacing out is when we retreat to the universe that exists in our minds... better by far than watching a movie)... but some adhd-h kids do it as well when they've just run out of fuel (feeding adhd kids and keeping their blood sugar up can be quite difficult), or during the 5-10 minutes they need to "recharge". (Zen like trance, then full movement). If she IS adhd-c you'll probably be able to hyperfocus her on mentally stimulating things (interactive computer games are a godsend), long enough every day to get a bit of a break.
ADHD evals are expensive ($300-$800 typically for a "real" / "good" eval), and if your H is against (or your insurance won't pay), you may just be out of luck until Kindergarten. Or you may be able to get an eval from an "early intervention" type program.
Regardless... there is a lot you can do in the meantime. The "tricks" I posted above are just a handful of HUNDREDS (the most common one with school aged kids is playing music -NOT CLASSICAL, unless they just happen to dig classical- during homework time).
For more of those tricks, and just general info a great resource is the ever present
You could explain it this way, it is very nuts and bolts, and he may like that better.
ADHD is a brain issue. Brain cells don't touch. There is a tiny space in between each cell called a synapes. We have "thoughts" that are carried from brain cell to brian cell as electrical impulses. When the impulse reaches the synapes, our bodies make chemicals called neurotransmitters which carry the electrical impulse over the space. If the body does not make enough neurotransmitter, or if the neurotransmitter receptors are damaged, the person cannot carry electrical impulses through their brain with reliability. They lose track, they forget, they try to move more to get their brains to work better. They can be very, very smart. This is an information processing issue, not "dumb" issue, but no matter how smart they are, they cannot "think" their brains into making or using more neurotransmitter hundres of thousands a time a second and make this work any better.
Do some reading too. Dr. Mel Levine is great, All Kinds fo Minds is a book that may help. CHADD probably has resources that you can use to help you and your husbabnd get on the same page.
Maybe you can agree to disagree, or ask that he let the Developmental Pediatrician (found at childrens hospitals) make the call for both of you. This is the right kind of doctor to see for an evaluation, it may take a while to get in, but you will have a very thourough evaluation that misses nothing, and you won't have to argue about what you see anymore, it will be spelled out in a 15 to 20 page evaluation report so your husband will know what she has or does not have.
M.
Just a quick addition, schools can help you, but you should always know more about your child than any school district. IDEA only requires them to make your child functional at school, and you want to maximize her development, so always evaluate privately, always provide private therapy beyond school based therapy and always know exacty what you child needs. In other words, don't depend on the state to take care of your child's issues, they are not required to care about it as much as you do!
Also, just ignore people who say that your child is "normal" or feel guilty for seeking care for a condition that has already broken your heart. We all hear that (if I had a nickel!) and it is counter productive. No professional is going to diagnose your child if they don't really have an issue, and speaking one Mom with two kids whom I knew were not developing typicaly neurologically, you just have to let those who don't know any better roll their own direction (and go the other way!) You do need your husband on board, so keep chugging away on him until he sees what you see. All too often, you will find yourself in the painful position to argue with someone who means well, but is clueless, that there really is something going on with your kid, even after the diagnosis, when you would love to beleive what that person is saying (who wouldn't, I mean really, you mean my child does not have a neurological condition and the doctors are all wrong? Wow, what a releif!") It is so hard, but you will get used to it. It is like people think you want your child to have ADHD, how rediculous is that? Good luck, stay strong, MR
We are actually in the process getting my 3 1/2 year old son evaluated. We went to a developmental pediatrician and she said that he is showing ealy signs of ADHD and some sensory issues. I then contacted the board of ed and met with the child study team in out town. They reference the diagnoses from the Pediatrician and now they will be evaluating him. They have 90 days to finish the evaluations. Once the evaluations come back they will start therapies. This is all covered by the town. I have been seeing signs for a year but kept pushing it off as that he was just an active boy. He is in a preschool and last year they were always telling me how much of a difficult time they had with him .This year he is in the same preschool and he has not improved. They had a meeting with my husband and I and recommended we get him evaluated. It was also recommended by our reg ped. I had a hard time with what to do for him. But the more I researched the more I learned that the earlier you start to help them the better. I am hoping that once he is ready for kindergarten that we would have worked though any of the issues.
I would tell him that this is for the better of your daughter and that the earlier you address something the better. You don't want to be getting the phone calls when she's in grade school when you could have done something about it before.
Also, my son isn't that aware of what is going on yet. Which I am glad because I don't want him to start getting a complex or thinking that "Im different" or "something is wrong with me".
Fight for her, it's in her best interest. If it comes back that it's nothing than even better. But there's something to say about the fact that you are her mother. Trust your gut..
Good luck!
How often is she outside? She should be getting at least 30 minutes of outside exercize per day. Secondly is there a family history of ADD/ADHD? Most doctors won't diagnose a child that young unless there is a family history. To get her tested for free simply write a letter to your local school district and request the testing. My kids get worse the more tired they are so if you put her in the car and she goes right to sleep she is acting out in an attemp to stay awake.
http://www.oneaddplace.com
Something is wrong with the website right now, but usually it has really good natural ways to try things. So if you do these things you might find some help without freaking your husband out. I know how tough it can be to agree on something like this.
I don't know what's wrong with the website but here is the info I remember:
There are suggestions about paying attention to diet and triggers. Staying away from foods with dyes. Make a food journal and document behavior. See if there is a food trigger. Instead of Ritalin, you can try a small cup of coffee in the morning and afternoon, it does the same thing as Ritalin. If she doesn't like coffee, make a protein shake with the coffee. (This totally works by the way. I do it with my daughter and my stepbrother was also on that diet. It mellows them out.)
Good luck!
Most good doctors will not test for ADHD until at least first grade. The first test actually involves you and in our case a teacher answering a ton of questions, those get scored, and you are shown where they fall compared to other kids in the same gender and age group.
Ask your pediatrician if you want but I know we had to fill out a form and so didn't our son's teacher and he is not as hyper with him its more of not paying attention and now his grades are starting to show.so we are discussing it with the doctor again because last time he was tested he was in the high risk group in lots of areas. We have tested him yearly since first grade I am sure this time it will probably warrant a referral.
Please don't broach this topic for at least another year- she's far too young ot be tested for ADHD until she's at MINIMUM school-aged.
Is she in preschool? If so, talk with the teacher and keep copies of her quarterly reports. If she's not in preschool, then enroll her for a couple days per week. Many children respond well to the structure and predictability of a school setting. You should also be trying significant behavior modification techniques with her. A book that I often recommend to patients: "Ritalin is not the Answer" has great techniques. I do not support their "anti-med" message, but the strategies are great.
No pediatrician worth seeing will consider a diagnosis until after the child has been in school for a full year- need to have multiple sources of information for an accurate diagnosis.
Hold off on this and wait for at least a year (end of Kindergarten). Work with the teachers to keep records and ask for classroom observations to be completed by the school psychologist. There is no "test" for ADHD, but the diagnostic criteria requires that the behaviors be present in more than one "significant" location.
I am curious what behaviors your daughter is exhibiting that makes you feel she may be ADHD. 4 is kind of young to be diagnosed. Lots of ADHD characteristics are "normal" for toddlers and preschoolers. Just curious.
As for how to approach this with your husband, maybe you could print off some ADHD check lists from various reputable websites, and go through them with him as they pertain to your daughter, so he can see in black and white whether she is, in fact, exhibiting ADHD symptoms. If you don't think he'll go through them with you, you could do it yourself, and show them to him. You may find, though, that these checklists aren't recommended for kids as young as your daughter...
