4 Almost 5 Year Old with Attitude

When he is rude, be firm on how he is to treat you. Put him in a different time out, like in the corner in the kitchen. Take all his fun toys, TV and computer priveleges away for a day or two. Stay firm and consistent.

It sounds like you have already tried lots of punitive tools and they are not working for you. I really don't think you can punish a child into being 'good'. I would try another approach. Things that have helped us (DS just turned 5)

1. Assume positive intent - DS is doing the best he can for who he is today - not who he will be tomorrow and not who we want him to be.

2. The goal is not to raise an obedient child. The goal is to raise a caring, thinking, questioning, empathetic adult. These are all skills he will need to learn and practice.

3. Enough sleep and physical activity make everything easier. Yes, it's cold outside, but we still went outside and threw the (nerf) football around yesterday before we made a snowman. If not, try an indoor mall playground.

4. Getting down on his level and getting his attention really helps. Four year olds are often deeply engrossed in what they are doing and honestly do not 'hear' what we say.

5. Giving time warnings before making transitions. For us that looks like - 'DS, we will need to go out in 5 minutes so you will need to stop playing with your lego'. Then repeated again 1 minute before we need to go.

6. Make it a game or a race - otherwise known as playful parenting. Looks like ' wow, we are moving slowly this morning, I bet I can get to your room first, I'll even give you a head start, ready, set, go - I bet I can count to 10 before you can get your pajamas off etc.' You do need to let him win.

7. Don't threaten or count, just do. I say, DS, please take your feet off the furniture. He just looks, I walk over, get down on his level and say - I asked you to please take your feet of the table' He does nothing. I take his feet off the table. Some people call this 'get off your butt parenting'

8. Model the behaviors and attitude you want him to have. I try to think when I request the DS does something - if my boss told me to do something at work like this, would it be ok? If not I try to rephrase (and I am not perfect at this). When he asks for something the 'wrong' way, I rephrase it for him the way I want to hear it - he says, 'I want my lego, gimme', I say - why mommy, may I please have my lego (and give it to him). And do it over and over.

I really like what Dana had to suggest: giving your son as much benefit of the doubt as you can. I know it's considered "common sense" to crack down on children exhibiting undesired behaviors, and I also know from experience that we can't persuade positive change by punishing them into it, but with well-thought out corrections and changing how we talk/relate to them.

I also read your other post about your son's pooping in his pants. While your doctor was right in identifying it as a power struggle, that doesn't help you to understand what it is he's struggling against.

My guess, too, is that his attitude is a way of saving face. When you take away toys and privileges for his being rude, it does hurt. And he gets angry with you all over again and hence, more rudeness.

Here are the titles of two books that I think would really help your situation. I have used both of these in my work as a teacher and as a mom. They have been invaluable.

The first is "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and How to Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Faber and Mazlish. These women were two moms who were equally frustrated with their own children, and decided to take classes and educate themselves about the parent/child transactions that happen throughout the day. What has emerged is a great book, a cornerstone for those of us who love and work with kids. Mutual respect, working together, problem-solving-- all of this is covered in a fascinating, easy-to-apply book. I love it and have to tell you that when I was just about fed up with being a nanny, this book changed *everything* for me. I love working with kids and parenting so much more because of it.

2. "Taking Charge: Loving Discipline that Works at Home and In School" by Joanne Nordling. Another one I can't recommend enough. This one will help you understand when your son is being 'disrespectful' and when he's just needing to blow off steam and vent. This book also provides corrections for misbehaviors that require us to find out where that behavior is coming from, and these corrections are logical and not punitive. In short, we are treating the cause as well as the effect.

You sound like a lot of moms of kids this age.:) It IS a frequent complaint. I know that with my groups, I have to lay down the law a lot around this age. "This is a time for *doing*, not a time for arguing", I hear myself saying for the umpteenth time when kids in my care are this age. It's funny, they are practicing being more mature people, in all the wrong ways sometimes! I also like the phrase "Oh, now I need you to ask me that in a friendly way" when the bossy voices start up.

I hope someone here has something that works for you. And check out those books, because in my belief-- there's no such thing as a quick fix with the kiddos!

You are trying something that is simply not working. Time out just does not work for some kids, especially when it has nothing to do with why they were put there in the first place. Instead of time out when he does not do what you ask, give him options.
"Would you like to clean up now or in 5 minutes?"
"Would you like your red or blue paints?"
If that does not do the trick, then he is, what I like to call, Stuck. He cannot move onto another activity until he has resolved the one that he is in. If he does not clean up he cannot play with anything else, if he does not get dressed he cannot start playing (or will have to eat breakfast in the car).....
Take not of how you and the other grown ups in his life talk to each other. If they say "Whatever" or do not listen to each other then he will learn that response too. You can ask him what about your request is unappealing. What are the power struggles about? Is your child being asked to do things when they are busy? Does he feel that he is always being corrected? Does, as i mentioned before, he have a lack of choices? Take a look from his side. It may help the power struggles.

Also take note of what she is doing when you request things of him. I posted an article about this on this site. www.mamapedia.com/voices/my-kids-never-listen

I would love to know how it all turns out,
B. Davis

http://www.ChildAndFamilyCoaching.com
Because nothing is more important than family

I think you'll like the book Parenting Without Power Struggles by Susan Stiffelman, which is appropriately subtitled 'Raising Joyful, Resilient Kids While Staying Cool, Calm and Connected. So much of our "losing our (parental) minds has more to do with our own thoughts about our kids behavior than the behavior itself. This book addresses that and gives you a great new tool for dealing with it.

Hazel's suggested reading is terrific, too. How to Talk… is by far the most practical and most effective parenting book I've ever used, and several young families to whom I've recommended it have almost thrown themselves at my feet in gratitude a couple of weeks later. Try it, you'll like it!

Two things -

1. Are you sure he knows how to be "polite?" I don't mean that obnoxiously. We often don't want our children to be rude, but we also have to teach them the polite behaviors in their place. So when he "whatevers" you, are you sure that he knows why it's rude?

2. If the answer to the first question is that he knows how to behave nicely, but he's not, you just have to find the thing that he cares about. For my daughter, it's dessert (such a sweet tooth that one!). She stomped her foot at me, and I told her she lost dessert, and if she did it again, she'd lose dessert for 3 days. Well, she said "I don't care!" and stomped her foot at me again. She lost dessert for three days. No foot stomping problems since then. The trick is to "hit 'em where it hurts."

Good luck.

Hi J.,
I think all the other suggestions are great. Read those books and take the best from them. Saying "whatever" is basically saying, "what you have to say is unimportant to me," and it is very rude, so that cannot be tolerated. I also like the suggestion, "hit 'em where it hurts," not literally, but find that one thing that they love to do and then you must stick with it. That is the hard part.

Good luck! You sound like a wonderful mother!

we do 1-2-3 Magic at our house - great book, our Ped. recommended it. VERY easy to learn and execute. Works like a charm and the key to it is that the child learns how to moderate their own behavior.

Whatever you choose to do CONSISTENCY is the key. Even when it's a pain/inconvenient to do so. Good luck